Juicy Dev Chat tidbits

[Jamiko]

Somewhat akin to the perception discussion, my friend is playing a rogue and it is driving him nuts that he keeps getting detected while stealthed. He thinks he should be invisible all the time, until he attacks someone. I tried to explain to him that he is not invisible, just hiding. The closer you are to someone the easier it is for them to spot you. He doesn't get it and it makes him hate the game. He expects to be invisible all the time. I wouldn't be suprised if he quits because the game does not behave as he thinks it should.

[AcidCat]

I dont like MMOGs any more. Then complain when I play them and dont like them.

I think that about sums up what you have said in this thread. The majority of people in this forum are enjoying the hell out of the game. .

Hehehe.

Count me in the camp thoroughly enjoying WoW - the main problem I have with it is knowing when to shut off the PC and give my eyes a rest and spend some time with the family. I have different characters, leveled to 8, 10, 14, and 25. Good times.

[Shockeye]

Yay. More auction house + linked = GOOD.

They will not be in next patch, whenever that patch may be.

We don't have an ETA of when they will go in. But they will not be coming in the next scheduled patch.

[Delf]

I think what may settle it for me on the CoH vs WoW question is that WoW crashes literally every thirty seconds on me. Weirdest thing. Same computer plays CoH all day long. Tried different video drivers, different sound card drivers, different video and sound settings from all the way up to all the way down, to no apparent use. It'll crash when all I'm doing is standing around.

I'm on Earthen Ring, but don't want to announce a char name until I know I'll be staying around.

[Paelos]

Yay. More auction house + linked = GOOD.

They will not be in next patch, whenever that patch may be.

We don't have an ETA of when they will go in. But they will not be coming in the next scheduled patch.

Considering the database lag/mail lag, I don't really find this that disturbing. Frankly, having the AH in different cities is a great idea, but not gamebreaking for me atm. I'd rather have them get the issue right and fully connected other than releasing it and causing another laggy meltdown on patch day. Of course, that will probably happen either way, but I like to be hopeful that its accuracy over speed and not just laziness.

[blindy]

I think what may settle it for me on the CoH vs WoW question is that WoW crashes literally every thirty seconds on me. Weirdest thing. Same computer plays CoH all day long. Tried different video drivers, different sound card drivers, different video and sound settings from all the way up to all the way down, to no apparent use. It'll crash when all I'm doing is standing around.

I don't know what kind of error you're getting, but if it's some kind of memory violation (error #132, I think it was), I had the same problem on release.  There's a stickied thread about it on the official tech support forum that isn't locked but doesn't seem like it can be replied to anymore.  Anyways, the issue is that WoW, for whatever reason, runs really hot, to the point where my computer would overheat and crash after I played between 15 and 60 minutes, no matter what I was doing.  But I never have overheating problems with it while I'm doing anything else (including playing COH).  I fixed the issue by underclocking my processor, but that was a pretty annoying solution.  Stable game, my ass.

Anyways, I found WoW's quests to be kinda fun for like the first 20 levels or so.  At this point (level 46), it does feel very treadmillish.  It doesn't help that a zone like Feralas or Dustwallow Marsh has maybe 1/10th the amount of quests that The Barrens has.  So I show up at the zone, explore it, do the 5-6 quests I can do solo, get about a level of exp, and then it's off to find another zone.  Plus, I hate collection quests where the drop rate is low.  Oh, and underwater quests.  Swim around, find elven gem, get attacked by mermaid guy, try to surface because I'm running out of air, get dazed, get slowed by ice spell, get netted and be completely unable to move, drown 5 feet from surface.  Repeat for 12 gems.  I've vowed to never do another underwater quest ever again.  

It also probably hasn't helped that I've played this game much more non-casually than I did COH.  But on PVP it's gank or be ganked, and I didn't want to be the level 25 guy getting corpse camped by level 60s in Hillsbrad a month after release, so I've grinded.

[HaemishM]

I'm starting to feel the grind myself. Oh I have plenty of quests. But I'm starting to run into many alliance players, and either they won't flag themselves, or I'm in no position to flag myself to attack them because they are ?? level and I'm not. I'm 23 and may be starting to run out of steam.

[Mesozoic]

Sounds like you need to reroll on a PvP server, Haem.  Of course, how far you get once you hit 20 and need to quest in contested zones is another question.

[Nebu]

I'm starting to feel the grind myself. Oh I have plenty of quests. But I'm starting to run into many alliance players, and either they won't flag themselves, or I'm in no position to flag myself to attack them because they are ?? level and I'm not. I'm 23 and may be starting to run out of steam.

This is about where I got with the game in beta before I started to feel much like I did in CoH.  The shiny has worn off and all that remains is a clear view of the community and the treadmill ahead.  The type of fun really didn't change, only the look of it and an increase in the amount of time it took to reach new goals.

I think the self sufficiency that you have until level 20 is great for fun, but really comes at the cost of retention.  By being able to do everything on your own, there's no incentive to build social networks.  Perhaps this is a holdover from my MUD days, but the main reason I log on to mmogs is to have fun with friends.  The game itself is less important if only to act as a vehicle for some shared entertainment experience.  In my opinion, games like CoH and WoW have moved away from the more social predecessors of the past.  They are much better games from a purely entertainment standpoint, but much worse from a community standpoint.  Maybe I just come from a generation where gaming was more of a social event than anything else.

In any event, I find it funny that I have recommended WoW and CoH to so many people without being able to truely enjoy the games myself.  I guess I have a deep appreciation for the advancements they are making in the genre without being convinced that they are the advancements I would have preferred.

[chinslim]

I guess it would have to be a pretty common consensus that the best way to enjoy WoW is taking your time.  I and my regular group are squarely in the middle of the pack with levels.  Higher level gankers are usually not a problem for us(mostly we shank them or avoid them thanks to having a hunter as our driver).  Our nightly gaming sessions is all questing/pvp, and I feel that as we level up, we're  picking up new pvp tactics and honing our skills along the way.  Had I played on a pve server and did nothing but grind to 60, I would of already quit.

[Morfiend]

At this point (level 46), it does feel very treadmillish.  It doesn't help that a zone like Feralas or Dustwallow Marsh has maybe 1/10th the amount of quests that The Barrens has.

No wonder your feeling a grind, your level 46. I am lvl 31 and I have invested quite a bit of time. You must be investing at least 5-7 hours a day. Well, if your horde you are.

Yeah, some of the higher level zones dont have as many quests as the barrens (oh, you are horde). But there are more of them. Tanaris, Feralis, Azshara, Felwood, STV, Swamp of Sorrow, Dustwallow Marsh, Hinterlands, Ungoro Crater, Badlands. All those zones should have quests for your level. Not to mention Zul'Ferrak, Uldaman, and soon the Temple for instances.

Take a few days off, and you wont get burned out. You know you dont HAVE to play every day right?

[Paelos]

Honestly, this is why the rest system is a godsend to the higher levels. In the lower ranks, it's almost stupid because you can make up a night's rest in about three kills. However, resting becomes integral as you get 40+ to stay ahead of the game I think. I would recommend that if you feel the grind at the higher level just roll an alt for a while. Get it to 20 or something for about 5 days. Use it as a leatherworking alt. Then, come back to your main. It will have a full rested level on it by the time you return, meaning you can xp away with ease, not to mention the quest rewards that only increase it.

[personman]

I think the self sufficiency that you have until level 20 is great for fun, but really comes at the cost of retention.  By being able to do everything on your own, there's no incentive to build social networks.

Ah what a big world we live in.  I'm already disenchanted with WoW because I've already hit the point where I must group for most quests.

But then to me video games are something I do when I'm bored and usually that means solo.  I prefer RL for social activities - it's the non-verbal cues from actually being around people that satisfy my social itches. YMMV.

[Nebu]

But then to me video games are something I do when I'm bored and usually that means solo.  I prefer RL for social activities - it's the non-verbal cues from actually being around people that satisfy my social itches. YMMV.

Looks like you missed the point... easy to do when you single out a sentence for comment.  

My statement was that I am of a generation where we got together to play games. The games actually acted as a centerpiece for social interaction (ever wonder why they were called "Parlor Games"?).  I enjoy online gaming for similar reasons.  I have a very active social life, but it is also quite limited by the small town that I live in and the limited circle of social contacts.  I enjoy online gaming as it gives me the opportunity to share an experience with people I would otherwise have no contact with.   So, FOR ME there is less of a drive to get online and play a game where there is little incentive to interact with others.  

As for being bored... I've never had a problem with that.  I always have far too many things to do to ever be bored.

[personman]

As for being bored... I've never had a problem with that.  I always have far too many things to do to ever be bored.

Or for crying out loud... I was contrasting playstyles.  I'm sure you're a wonderful human being, gentle to furry creatures and beloved by children everywhere.

[blindy]

Take a few days off, and you wont get burned out. You know you dont HAVE to play every day right?

Yeah, I'm aware that the way I've chosen to play has probably contributed to burning out on the PVE.  I aluded to as much in the third paragraph of my previous post.   But it's take my time and savor the PVE, or catass and remain somewhat competitive in PVP, and between those choices PVP wins.  

Wanting to enjoy the content while burning through it may be unrealistic, I don't know.  I have still liked the instances that I've gone to, but I can't spend all my time in them because sometimes there's just not going to be a group for it.  I do think more quests per each mid-high zone would help a lot though.  Yes, there are a lot more zones that I can go to than when I was back in my teens, but I don't like having to go to a new zone almost every single level (unless I just sit and grind), which is how it's working out right now.  That's just too much running around, and feels like a time sink.

[AcidCat]

That's just too much running around, and feels like a time sink.

I like having different zones that I can quest in at any given time. Right now I'm going between Ashenvale, Redridge Mountains, and Duskwood just depending on my mood, it adds variety. The only bad thing is the 20 quest limit gets a little restrictive, but that's just a nitpick.

[Paelos]

I seriously wouldn't mind the 20 quest limit if it didn't include elite quests. I think there should be a seperate tab for those alone that doesn't count in your total 20.

[Dren]

I seriously wouldn't mind the 20 quest limit if it didn't include elite quests. I think there should be a seperate tab for those alone that doesn't count in your total 20.

Totally agree there.  The elite quests can take a long time to accomplish so they should be separate.  I'm constantly fighting the cap as it stands.

I too travel zones quite often to line up the best fit of quests for my lvl and what I want to accomplish.  I'm quite pleased with the game and have not seen my enthusiasm for the game diminish at all.

Level 34 currently.

[Nija]

I really doubt that desolace dungeon will be anything involving centaurs, since there's already an entire centaur town full of level 40+ elites. Plus, the banished cave-dwelling centaurs are in 1k needles, not Desolace.

Also, it's not raid content, and 40+ instances need A TON of help. They are pretty bad.

The lower level instances have story to them. Lots of quests linked to them. Then out of left and right field respectively, you're sent into a mine to kill ... i'm not even sure what they are. Caveman Mr. Potatoheads. Then you're sent to the temple, at the upper 40s to kill... Nah I won't spoil it.

Also you can spend some time fighting the underwater-breathing, mutant, giant dwarves in Feralas, if you don't feel like going to an instance.

[Nija]

Now the combat system has some flexibility +/- 10 levels from my experience, but several bored level 60's camping a level 20-30 zone like Hillsbrad/Ashenvale is cheese.

It's all about new player sustainability.

I have witnessed about two dozen scorned level 25s taking down 3 level 60 players.

It's bliss.

"Newbie griefing" isn't as bad as you armchair queers are making it out to be.

edit: also, don't let the shiny get out of your sights. I'm currently after this particular one, because i want to beat people up with a pint glass.

[AcidCat]

Mug O' Hurt, haha, great!

[WindupAtheist]

When I played UO, my account was typically paid and active only three out of every four months.  I didn't dislike the game, I'd just get a bit tired of it at times.  You know, you don't have to play forty hours a week like clockwork.  Take a week off and do something else with your spare time.  Your character will be there.