Safes + concealment?

[SnakeCharmer]

Does anyone have any experience in safes/gun safes - particularly with biometric locks? 

Also, I know that it'd be best to talk to a contractor, but what about making 'fake' walls or hidden aclove to put the safe(s) in?  I can't seem to wrap my head around the proper wording to google search with...

[Furiously]

Floor safe would probably be a good thing to google.

[Salamok]

how about this

edit: I would imagine any DIY solution for concealment wold work fine for a biometric lock safe as well.

[SnakeCharmer]

Can't do a floor safe; house is built on slab.  Suppose I could, but wowzers...The cost would be astronomical.  I'm using the full size, stand up gun safes.

[Yegolev]

Can you put a bookshelf in front of the door?  I suppose if the stash is hidden well enough then I won't need a safe, but YMMV.

I am thinking you must be reading the same publications as my wife.  She just bought a book on ebay about how to set up a "retreat" for survival.

[SnakeCharmer]

Haha, no....Not building a stronghold for the impending zombie invasion.

I've got about 45 guns and about 6,000 rounds of ammo that I've inherited or collected that I need to secure.  Since we're (likely) in the last house we'll buy for a good 30 years, I want to make something more permanent.  I've outgrown my current safe and really don't like looking at it -or- it being so visible in my home office.  I'm not wild about losing so much square footage in my office, but a 'faux' wall book case is what I'm seriously looking at doing with the safes behind it.  Just have no idea about how to go about doing it.

[K9]

I've got about 45 guns and about 6,000 rounds of ammo

wat

[Samwise]

I would think building a "fake" wall would be much like building a real wall; the only difference is that you'd build it inside a room to divide it in two. 

Being in the midst of building a real wall in my basement, I can assure you it's a pain in the ass.  Although you probably won't be doing it in a cramped space on a sloping concrete floor.

[Surlyboi]

Obama ain't gunna take MY guns. 

[sigil]

Dude, He and I live in SW 'Bama. I'm the freak for not owning one  here.

[Surlyboi]

Good point.

'Sides, if the zombie apocalypse ever comes, that's where it'll start.

I'd recommend a SPAS 12 or a Benelli.

[Broughden]

Haha, no....Not building a stronghold for the impending zombie invasion.

I've got about 45 guns and about 6,000 rounds of ammo that I've inherited or collected that I need to secure.  Since we're (likely) in the last house we'll buy for a good 30 years, I want to make something more permanent.  I've outgrown my current safe and really don't like looking at it -or- it being so visible in my home office.  I'm not wild about losing so much square footage in my office, but a 'faux' wall book case is what I'm seriously looking at doing with the safes behind it.  Just have no idea about how to go about doing it.

Can you put a fake wall in a walk in closet instead so you dont loose so much office space? Cut a closet in half with a fake swing out panel wall.

[Merusk]

Samwise has it right on how to build a 'concealed space' wall.  It's no different than a normal wall, you're just hiding the door.

http://www.hidden-spaces.com/

I searched for "hidden spaces" and got that.

The easiest way of doing this is just build an object larger than the door on the room side and affix it to your door panel.  I'd do it this way because a whole moving wall panel will be hard to conceal. The opening and panel will have a gap between them that will wear and stain over time. Just watch about scraping things across your carpet/ flooring as that will give-away the safe's location.

[Righ]

Buy enough guns to make thousands of decoy caches. Then the chances are that the good guns won't get stolen.

[Surlyboi]

The old WMD trick.

Works every time.

[Salamok]

What ya need is one of them there boxspring safes, that way they need to push aside your cold dead body to get to your guns!

[Yegolev]

Right, you'll probably want to do the "bookshelf" thing, but what I would suggest is to build out a small doorframe rather than a full-size one.  Much easier to hide.  Also maybe you can have it raised above the floor so you don't have to worry about scraping the floor.  Sounds like you don't need quick access if you're just using it as storage.

By the way, the two things I advise investing in today are gold and guns.

[Signe]

Gold prices swing like a pendulum do this year.  Can your blood pressure handle it?  And guns?  How do you make money investing in guns?  Sell them to people who shouldn't have them?

[Yegolev]

How do you make money investing in guns?  Sell them to people who shouldn't have them?

Naturally.  I expect that gold and guns will retain value even if the country goes all Mad Max.  You'll wish you hadn't put all your wealth into fiat when that guy with the hockey mask rides his dune buggy up to your house.

[Ard]

If Mad Max has taught me anything, is that the guy with the hockey mask just wants my oil, and is willing to let me just walk away.  My gold and guns are safe.   

[Nevermore]

Just make sure the door to your secret chamber swings open when you pull one of the candle sconces on the wall.

[Signe]

Just make sure the door to your secret chamber swings open when you pull one of the candle sconces on the wall.

[SnakeCharmer]

The only thing I worry about using a swing out book case, which is something I thought about and like, is sag.  I suppose the solution would be to build the actual framing out steel, which is no problem since I can weld and have a buddy that has the tools to cut the steel to measure.  However, the steel framing would add weight, but it would be structurally solid.  And it's not like I'd be accessing it every day.  Also, the bookcase has enough 'busy' stuff to draw the eye away from any seams or gaps.  It would be best to have a the entire thing raised about 2.5 inches so not to potentially scrape the hardwood flooring.

The main problem I have is the layout of the room itself...The house is essentially |__| shaped.  The office is in the middle facing the backyard, with the den to the left, and master bedroom to the right.  The window in the room is essentially one big window that takes up nearly the entire wall.  It has one small 'half closet' that basically juts into the walk in closet for the master br.  I might be able to convince the wife to lose some of the closet space, but doubtful.  

How do you make money investing in guns?  Sell them to people who shouldn't have them?Sell them to people who shouldn't have them?

 

Edit:  It's not that you 'make money', per se, it's that you don't lose money. 

Guns generally don't depreciate.  They hold their value, and generally appreciate.  Cheapo guns, sure, they will lose their value.  No doubt.  But since Obama became president, every gun shop, manufacturer, and collector has been under the impression he's going to take all our guns away (I disagree with this) or at the very least, make it nearly impossible to obtain one (this would be a good thing).  Plus people have been on a buying spree, driving up the mark up from dealers.

Also, ammo cost have been on the rise - partly due to Obama, but mostly because of the Chinese buying up raw materials like you wouldn't believe.

[Yegolev]

I kinda think the attached bookshelf is overengineering if you aren't going in there all the time.  You are framing the problem as "how can I build at secret door" when you actually have the problem of hiding firearms.  I say the door can be pretty shitty if you have a large-ish but movable piece of furniture.  Now, if you're going to be accessing the space on even a semi-regular basis then this is inadequate and likely to produce marks on the floor, at least.  I might have a space with a smallish raised door which could be hidden by a painting.  No one would ever think to look behind a painting unless they were Simon & Simon.

I have also thought of something: can you store these in the attic?  If you are interested in putting the safe itself into whatever place, then nevermind.

[Samwise]

Also, ammo cost have been on the rise

[SnakeCharmer]

@ Samwise: I don't get it... 

@ Yegolev: Can't store in the attic (assuming you mean the safes).  They weigh in somewhere between 500-600 lbs empty.  The primary motivation behind the safes are, obviously, safety for my son and his friends.  Right now, they're stacked in gun cases in a closet and under the bed in a spare bedroom with a key'd lock on the door.  Secondary motivation is security (if the house is ever broken into, however doubtful that is) because they won't be holding just guns.  The idea behind hiding them is one part aesthetics and one part 'wouldn't it be cool if...'.

[bhodi]

Do you really trust your children so little that you need something more than a basic padlock? Also, there's no safe that's going to hold 45 guns... Hell, what you should really do is rent a u-store-it, or put it all in one of those big chests with a lock.

[Yegolev]

Ah, if you are hiding the safe then we can concentrate on that.  I still say raise it up, but now you will have to build the opening to the size of the safe door.  Assuming you get one of the full-size gun safes, you're looking at a big bookshelf to cover that.  Maybe a wheeled shelf... you know what, I'll ask my wife for ideas.  She's got an interior design degree and she also probably recently bought a book on how to hide guns.

[SnakeCharmer]

@ bhodi:  Using multiple safes (three).  And no, call it paranoia, but little kids have zero business having any sort of access to guns until they're old enough to understand what they are what they're capable of.  

Even if they're unloaded.

@ Yegolev:  Cool.  I have an idea, but I'm not so sure how feasible it is.  The best thing to would be to build the 'bookcase' a bit raised, say about 2 inches, with a trim piece across the bottom.  Would have to find out if the concrete slab is poured deep enough to sustain that sort of weight of about 3000 lbs over a relatively small footprint.   I'm not worried so much about the frame of the bookcases that would open outwards, but the weight issue has got me a bit worried. 

[Fargull]

Friends dad had a concealled safe (not sure what was in it) in the base of their pool table.  Was damn cool, but not sure how that would fit in your gig!

[Samwise]

@ Samwise: I don't get it... 

Click, motherfucker.

[Signe]

Friends dad had a concealled safe (not sure what was in it) in the base of their pool table.  Was damn cool, but not sure how that would fit in your gig!

And it gives him an excuse to buy a pool table, if he doesn't have one already!   

[Xurtan]

http://hiddendoors.com/home.asp might be somewhat useful.

[Tale]

I've got about 45 guns and about 6,000 rounds of ammo

I'm calling the police.

[Teleku]

I've got about 45 guns and about 6,000 rounds of ammo

I'm calling the police.

Eh, my parents have about 25 guns and tons of ammo in their own safe back home (which they also acquired through inheritance and cheep purchase).  Welcome to America 

Whats the point of hiding the safe again?  Just to keep it out of view (which is fine/cool)?  Because if its for security, no bugler is ever going to be able to get into a gun safe unless he drags a fucking welding torch into your house and has a ton of time to go at it.  Which isn't very likely.  So no reason to really hide it...