PS3

[stray]

I picked it up at a Gamestop.

A few hours in and I can see why it wasn't widely accepted.  There's a few things that are driving me fucking batty about it, but it's a pretty fun game regardless of those flaws.  Hate the way the storyline is broken up into 8 cut scenes a 'chapter' however... just show me it all at fucking once, thanks.

I suppose you'll see over time that you're better off with the chapter/section breakdowns. More time for training/equipping/setting up units for a specific map, that sort of thing.

I think it's not widely accepted more for the fact that few even know about it (relatively speaking), and, I suppose, maybe too cute for some people.

[rrazcueta]

Anyone opinions on the best drivers for PS3 controllers on a PC?

[stray]

Can't say I've tried it myself, but at a glance, it seems like no matter what, the sixaxis controls would never be utilized. Not that it'd matter.

[stu]

Anyone pick up Greed Corp on PSN yet?

[Velorath]

Sony's GDC Press Conference is scheduled to start at 4pm PST today.  Most sites are live blogging it, while a few will also be doing live video streams.

[Mrbloodworth]

Next firmware to enable 3D.

[fuser]

Please get GT5 out this year (newish Nights Trailer).

[schild]

Holy fuck this music. Kill me now.

[schild]

The Playstation Move Subcontroller.

lol

[Ghambit]

All of the "Move" games they showed still relied heavily on pre-scripted moves.  Everyone's punch ends up looking the same no matter how they throw it, which is understandable since the game(s) seemed not to know where the users' body is. (otherwise u end up with awkward motion)
So if the Eye isnt enough to get a good read on where the body is so they can make adequate use of the resolution they have, then they're gonna have to start selling the damned bodysuits.

[schild]

So if the Eye isnt enough to get a good read on where the body is so they can make adequate use of the resolution they have, then they're gonna have to start selling the damned bodysuits.

What are you talking about? In last years demo it had full 1:1 tracking of the wands in the paint and lightsaber demos. The game does know, theoretically, where the bodies are placed, but no one wants their exact (arm)stance and positioning dictated into a fighting game. It would look like, well, something that shouldn't be said in mixed company.

Edit: Also, why even care? I mean, it's more waggle. Great.

[Ghambit]

So if the Eye isnt enough to get a good read on where the body is so they can make adequate use of the resolution they have, then they're gonna have to start selling the damned bodysuits.

What are you talking about? In last years demo it had full 1:1 tracking of the wands in the paint and lightsaber demos. The game does know, theoretically, where the bodies are placed, but no one wants their exact (arm)stance and positioning dictated into a fighting game. It would look like, well, something that shouldn't be said in mixed company.

Edit: Also, why even care? I mean, it's more waggle. Great.

The paint stuff and other social crap had 1:1 hand tracking because that's all they require, but none of the fighting games in the GDC had 1:1 in actual combat.  OOC you could move your limbs around, but once you made a move it was scripted.
Aside from that, w/o true bodily representation a Gamer always in the back of their mind knows "this could be done a lot better with a gamepad or mouse."  Games that are truly virtual have no such limitation save for physical ability.

And what's so bad about wanting to actually be able to spar with your friends?  I cant be the only one who wants their exact body position dictated into a game.  To me, there's no point for the waggle otherwise.   

[Ingmar]

Um... because people want to have a fighting game they can play without actually having to know a martial art?

[Ghambit]

Um... because people want to have a fighting game they can play without actually having to know a martial art?

I wouldnt be so sure about that.
Sure, it's kind of a paradigm-shifting opinion, but I dont think it's that outta left field. 
People ultimately want to get inside the game, not fool around in different ways outside of it.  The latter is ok in the short-term, but it gets old rather fast, especially with today's tech. and market.  <shrug>  I'm sure there's something in the pipe using Move that's a bit more extreme, just so far I havent seen it... maybe at E3.

[ffc]

2010, year of the peripherals:



   ¿ƃuıuəddɐɥ sı ʇɐɥʍ

[schild]

And what's so bad about wanting to actually be able to spar with your friends?  I cant be the only one who wants their exact body position dictated into a game.  To me, there's no point for the waggle otherwise.   

You are. Seriously. Go spar with friends if that's what you want.

[HaemishM]

I like the Move videos I've seen. It may actually be something like what i wanted the waggle remote be.

[rrazcueta]

I'd pick up NMH for the PS3 if it has Move support.

Also, I'd like WiiSports PS3.

...

[stray]

And what's so bad about wanting to actually be able to spar with your friends?  I cant be the only one who wants their exact body position dictated into a game.  To me, there's no point for the waggle otherwise.   

You are. Seriously. Go spar with friends if that's what you want.

This may be too general a point for this discussion... But probably the only problem I have with waggle enthusiasts is that they somehow think that gaming was always meant to move more and more into the realm of simulation - that waggle is closer to some kind of realization of true gaming... and I should jump for joy the more something departs from typical controls into something more realistic..

But typical gaming controls have always been their own thing that I appreciated in and of themselves. It has it's own inherent patterns/puzzles/memory challenges that I get a kick out of. It's not like I was playing all along because of the lack of a more realistic simulation of this or that activity. It's not like I've been biding my time all of these years waiting to really mimic Ken's spin kick or realistically jump on toadstool heads or whatever. Game controls have always been fine as they are.. something waggle can stand beside.. but not replace.

[Cyrrex]

That's all well and fine, but if you guys don't think that Real Swordfighting 2011 (or somesuch) wouldn't sell to a certain piece of the populace, you are raving bonkers.  I am aware that there are significant problems to delivering such an experience, but I guarantee that there are plenty who want to see that level of realism.

[stray]

I didn't say it wouldn't sell. I'd try it myself.

I would really hate to see this stuff get so common/popular though, to the point where programming controls with the typical gaming paradigm isn't considered anymore. Fuck that.

...... and, that's pretty much why I'm not a big Wii fan. It's generally waggle or nothing. They push it the point where you don't even get an option to control some games the traditional way. When some are argubably better off on a gamepad. It's a case of over-enthusism for waggle, like it's a one-size-fits-all solution to gaming.

[Ghambit]

That's all well and fine, but if you guys don't think that Real Swordfighting 2011 (or somesuch) wouldn't sell to a certain piece of the populace, you are raving bonkers.  I am aware that there are significant problems to delivering such an experience, but I guarantee that there are plenty who want to see that level of realism.

This.

Maybe it's just a question of simulation vs. game.  I've always been a sim phreak, but I know I'm not the only one that is.
I am in agreeance that motion-designers at this point need to take a more definitive stance on what they're trying to do though, instead of blurring the lines.  Either make it sim and dont half-ass, or make a quality "gaming" experience.  Down the road perhaps the two will meet in the middle.

[Lantyssa]

They think they want to see it.

When they see what happens when a camera shows them how dorky they really look because the system mimicked their exact moves, they will never play the game again.  It's a terrible idea.

[Cyrrex]

I didn't say it wouldn't sell. I'd try it myself.

I would really hate to see this stuff get so common/popular though, to the point where programming controls with the typical gaming paradigm isn't considered anymore. Fuck that.

...... and, that's pretty much why I'm not a big Wii fan. It's generally waggle or nothing. They push it the point where you don't even get an option to control some games the traditional way. When some are argubably better off on a gamepad. It's a case of over-enthusism for waggle, like it's a one-size-fits-all solution to gaming.

I don't think there's any danger of the "typical gaming paradigm" going away over night.  As evidenced in this very thread, I think that makes up the majority.

I see waggle as a means to an end.  In most cases it sucks, but in a few cases where it actually feels like a more realistic control, I think it works well.  Better fidelity and a good method of capturing body position will hopefully take this to the next level, but even that is just another means to an end.  There are three major problems they have to overcome before they reach the nirvana state...imagine my fictional swordfighting game:  first, there is no feedback.  The clashing of swords will only be on the screen, and getting hit has no real world consequence (other than simply losing) forcing you to react to it.  Second, you have to accept that balance is not something you are trying to achieve.  If I'm either in better physical condition than you or am a trained fighter, the advantage is mine.  Third, no fear.  I learned in the military that the biggest problem with field exercises where you are trying to mimic a true battle scenario is that neither side is afraid to fail and will therefore take stupid and unacceptable risks, which completely alters the level of realism you experience.  I don't think the can solve the first until we're in some form of virtual reality.  The second is what will make this niche.  The third isn't something many people would even want to change, for obvious reasons.

I'm not even sure what I'm trying to say anymore.  Except that I think this is all just part of the process of getting us to a totally different gaming paradigm.  

[Ingmar]

people who want exact perfect fighting game simulation : people who want to play regular fighting games :: people who want exact perfect guitar playing simulation : people who want to play regular guitar controller games

You're a tiny little niche market.

[Azazel]

You know what? I'd buy swordfighting with 1:1 waggle. If I liked golf properly, I'd buy 1:1 golf. Tennis. etc.

I can almost guarantee that the most popular 1:1 swordfighting game would be the Star Wars lightsaber one. Not entirely because gamesrs are nerds, but because it would be populated with fantastical characters, and a waggle/button combo would have your character jumping and flipping around like fucking Darth Maul on amphetamines, because people want that fantastical stuff which they can't do themselves. It's called escapism.

but...

People ultimately want to get inside the game, not fool around in different ways outside of it.  The latter is ok in the short-term, but it gets old rather fast, especially with today's tech. and market.

Oh, you mean the gaming industry through it's entire history to date? Yes, clearly people have gotten tired of that. 

[KallDrexx]

Sword-fighting 1:1 mechanics break down when you get to collisions.  Real life sword-fighting works because you can parry by colliding with the enemy's sword and deflecting ti's force forward into another direction.  You can't mimic this because you don't have the resistance to go with it.  Furthermore, you have no resistance while cutting someone, so you have to have gameplay systems designed around "My sword is sitting right through your torso and not moving".  It just presents way too many weird scenarios.

[rrazcueta]

Sword-fighting 1:1 mechanics break down when you get to collisions.  Real life sword-fighting works because you can parry by colliding with the enemy's sword and deflecting ti's force forward into another direction.  You can't mimic this because you don't have the resistance to go with it.  Furthermore, you have no resistance while cutting someone, so you have to have gameplay systems designed around "My sword is sitting right through your torso and not moving".  It just presents way too many weird scenarios.

This is overly negative and just plain ridiculous.

Play more Wii Sports Resort and you'll see that there are possibilities in the space of 1:1 motion sensing and canned animations that can be both an interesting experience and a good game.

[Ghambit]

People ultimately want to get inside the game, not fool around in different ways outside of it.  The latter is ok in the short-term, but it gets old rather fast, especially with today's tech. and market.

Oh, you mean the gaming industry through it's entire history to date? Yes, clearly people have gotten tired of that. 

No, I mean the various gimicky peripherals in the past that are/were nothing more than simple, short-term diversions.  They may sell some boxes, but they were ultimately failures in the fickle gaming market.
There's a difference between adding to gaming and just feeding it snacks.  Sure, people like their snacks but they're not gonna turn down the Kobe beef entree.

Anyways, gimme a 1:1 version of Bushido Blade and I'll be a happy man.   Maybe use a balance board for movement and/or dodging.  Make it ELO-based with ladders, tourneys, and pro. training modules both NPC and PC generated...  maybe even a virtual dojo.  For that matter, a virtual Wushu dojo (to study all its forms) wouldnt be a bad idea either. 

[schild]

I just want to point out that you dream of stuff that would be entirely unfun in an actual game. It's creepy. A 1:1 version of Bushido Blade would be god damn terrible.

[AutomaticZen]

No, I mean the various gimicky peripherals in the past that are/were nothing more than simple, short-term diversions.  They may sell some boxes, but they were ultimately failures in the fickle gaming market.
There's a difference between adding to gaming and just feeding it snacks.  Sure, people like their snacks but they're not gonna turn down the Kobe beef entree.

Anyways, gimme a 1:1 version of Bushido Blade and I'll be a happy man.   Maybe use a balance board for movement and/or dodging.  Make it ELO-based with ladders, tourneys, and pro. training modules both NPC and PC generated...  maybe even a virtual dojo.  For that matter, a virtual Wushu dojo (to study all its forms) wouldnt be a bad idea either. 

Just go take a kendo class or something.  That's a lot of dreaming for something you can already do.

[Ingmar]

How is that Ride controller working out for you?

[stray]

It's funny.. Skateboarding, guitar playing, and martial arts are all things I enjoy and do regularly. I'm sure I'm not alone. Yet, I've never desired games to simulate them. They're representations of those things are fun in and of themselves.

[edit] "Their", not "they're".

[Merusk]

You want a holodeck, we get it.   But then you only THINK you want it, because it becomes "the outdoors" for the things you're asking for.  You know, that think you're avoiding right now by playing video games instead of taking classes in any of this stuff.

[Rasix]

The problem with trying to simulate a physical activity soley though a controller like this, is that you can't.  Not with building in a huge amount of assumptions and very lame abstractions that clash with the original intent.

In modeling, say, a tennis game you don't have anything to really account for moment. So you make the characters automatically move to the ball or you assign it to a D-pad that isn't being used.  Your game has failed right then and there without even getting to other issues. How much fidelity do you want to build in?  You add some realistic physics based on racquet head speed, angle, timing, follow through, foot work (ohh wait), and then your game can no longer be played by the average Joe and probably gets enough of the physical modeling wrong to annoy someone familiar with the game.  So, you have to abstract all of these aspects and allow for a wide range of possible swings, while most likely introducing the ability to game the system because your controller is imprecise.  So now you have Wii tennis.  Yay.