StarCraft II Beta

[Malakili]

That guy couldn't possibly be a bigger twat.  I don't care about anything he said.  No lan?  So?  What the fuck is the difference between having a lan party and logging into B.net?  I guess you can't play this game multi-player in places without the internet.  Which is, like, the Himalayas.  Boo Hoo.  No chat rooms?  So?  The only thing I've ever used a B.net chat room for is to type 'penis' in between 1 and when the game started.

Actually the chat rooms you're referring to (the ones before each game starts) are still in; the chat rooms outside of the game lobbies are gone, however. That kinda sucks; my friends and I all had a custom channel we hung out to form games and shit in SC and WC3. I guess now we can make parties and do that? Can parties chat with one another?

The lack of LAN bothers me too a little, because even though my friends and I all have high speed internet it has been known to disconnect from time to time.

Yeah, the missing stuff isn't really going to matter to people who just want to log in and play a random game or whatever.  But for the people who make SC2 "their game" they are going to be missing a lot of the tools that bnet used to have (like chat rooms and private games) that allow you to form communities, etc.    The LAN support is less important at this point, realistically speaking those it is lame that you won't be able to play with people if bnet is down for maintenance or whatever and you are at a LAN party.  Sure, they aren't as common place as they were a few years back, but it does seem like a step in the wrong direction none the less.

I know people are biased against Husky here, and he is a bit of a douche sometimes, but I really think that he makes a good argument for why Bnet 2.0 actually serves the  SC2 community WORSE than bnet 1.0 did.  Notice I'm not saying the average SC2 user, but rather the people that make up the SC2 community, who are more involved in the game.   Its where f13 is odd, we have lots of people who play games WAY more than the "casual" gamer, yet we also have a community here that seems somewhat biased against the "hardcore" people for any given game and feel that any feature that is "for them" is wasted.  I disagree in a case like this though, community is vital in games these days, and the features they are cutting from bnet 2.0 seem to be making community less likely to form, facebook intergration be damned.

[Rendakor]

Fuck you can't make private games anymore? I got bored with that video after about 5m and didn't hear that part. Can game hosts still kick at least?

[Malakili]

Fuck you can't make private games anymore? I got bored with that video after about 5m and didn't hear that part. Can game hosts still kick at least?

You can make private games, but you can't give them a name and have them show up on a list or anything.  They just appear to your friends list or something, and you can't password them, so anyone that sees it pop up when you create on your friends list can join.  Its just counterintuitive and odd to my mind.   Not to mention odd stuff like trying to get an organized game together for tournaments is currently a nightmare because its so annoying set up games with people you need to friends list them, you can't just meet in a chat room, set up a game and password and so forth.

The current system is set up totally with their matchmaking/ranked games system in mind as near as I can tell.  Log on, say "I wanna play a game" and bnet 2.0 will get you into a game in fairly short order.  Thats great for a certain audience, but its actually worse than bnet 1.0 for what is probably their most dedicated SC long time players/customers.

[Fordel]

Protoss might be a bit better for my lack of micro'ing skill.  Warp gate is such a wonderful mechanic.wsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclickwsclick So is chrono-boosting.   I might keep playing these guys for a bit, athough I imagine not being able to force-field worth a darn could limit me.

Just hold shift when warping in the same unit.

W, S, Hold-Shift, Click click click etc.

[Rasix]

Ohh, that's helpful.  Learned I don't have to keep pressing w also. 

Last night b.net went wonky and I was in placement matches again.. that never counted. 

Started to get really annoyed with Terrans.  What's the best way to bust them (with toss or just in general) if they just turtle up (bunkers, missile turrets the entire parameter, tanks, vikings covering air  ).  Shit is really annoying.  They can just sit back and let their massive amount of vikings be annoying.

[Wolf]

expand, expand and expand again :) Wait for them to move out, go around and hit them in the back.

[Ironwood]

The idea of a Protoss complaining about Terran Turtling is silly.

Stop making me laugh.

[Rasix]

The idea of a Protoss complaining about Terran Turtling is silly.

Stop making me laugh.

Hey, remember Nydus god, I'm a bad player that's learning a new race.  My games are meant to make you laugh.

[Ironwood]

Protoss are the easiest to turtle tho !

[Musashi]

That guy couldn't possibly be a bigger twat.  I don't care about anything he said.  No lan?  So?  What the fuck is the difference between having a lan party and logging into B.net?  I guess you can't play this game multi-player in places without the internet.  Which is, like, the Himalayas.  Boo Hoo.  No chat rooms?  So?  The only thing I've ever used a B.net chat room for is to type 'penis' in between 1 and when the game started.

Actually the chat rooms you're referring to (the ones before each game starts) are still in; the chat rooms outside of the game lobbies are gone, however. That kinda sucks; my friends and I all had a custom channel we hung out to form games and shit in SC and WC3. I guess now we can make parties and do that? Can parties chat with one another?

The lack of LAN bothers me too a little, because even though my friends and I all have high speed internet it has been known to disconnect from time to time.

Yeah, the missing stuff isn't really going to matter to people who just want to log in and play a random game or whatever.  But for the people who make SC2 "their game" they are going to be missing a lot of the tools that bnet used to have (like chat rooms and private games) that allow you to form communities, etc.    The LAN support is less important at this point, realistically speaking those it is lame that you won't be able to play with people if bnet is down for maintenance or whatever and you are at a LAN party.  Sure, they aren't as common place as they were a few years back, but it does seem like a step in the wrong direction none the less.

I know people are biased against Husky here, and he is a bit of a douche sometimes, but I really think that he makes a good argument for why Bnet 2.0 actually serves the  SC2 community WORSE than bnet 1.0 did.  Notice I'm not saying the average SC2 user, but rather the people that make up the SC2 community, who are more involved in the game.   Its where f13 is odd, we have lots of people who play games WAY more than the "casual" gamer, yet we also have a community here that seems somewhat biased against the "hardcore" people for any given game and feel that any feature that is "for them" is wasted.  I disagree in a case like this though, community is vital in games these days, and the features they are cutting from bnet 2.0 seem to be making community less likely to form, facebook intergration be damned.

The lan thing is a legit gripe.  But let's think about it.  Our big ape in this room is that some companies are using draconian measures that punish their players to curb piracy.  We all think it's stupid and point to things that show it doesn't work.

On the other hand, companies like good ol' Blizz have always provided more value for your money.  They're updating B.net to be more of a social tool.  They're running into a few bumps in the road.  Does anyone have any doubt that Blizzard will iron them out?  Yea, they're going to require that you use this tool to play their games to avoid piracy.  I don't know how many sales they lost to nerds at lan parties pirating shit.  I guess they think it's enough to do this.  But at the end of the day if all we have to give up is lan support, it's still a pretty small price to pay when compared to what other companies are doing.  We don't really functionally lose anything unless the internet breaks or B.net is down, and they get their way to validate your install.  In my opinion this is the right way to curb piracy.  We should be for this.

As far as forming communities with chat, or whatever?  Maybe in 1999.  We use vent now.  If you have any other doubts that Blizzard will mold the social aspects of B.net into something which admittedly needs to be more intuitive, I invite you to peruse their resume.

[bhodi]

As far as forming communities with chat, or whatever?  Maybe in 1999.  We use vent now.  If you have any other doubts that Blizzard will mold the social aspects of B.net into something which admittedly needs to be more intuitive, I invite you to peruse their resume.

Well, keep in mind this was before Activision and it's ever friendly CEO Robert Kotick got involved. Not having chat or clan-esque functionality makes it very hard to organize leagues or groups of players and of course if they really want it to be the next e-sport the region locking and no-lan play pretty much makes that impossible. The way they have structured b.net 2.0 is great for someone who wants to play a few times a week with a co-worker but terrible for any sort of clan/guild system and serious play.

They wanted to make it a social tool but they failed miserably because even steam has better friends functionality than b.net 2.0.

It just makes the game a lot less sticky, people will simply move on and I doubt it'll have the following that SC1 did no matter how balanced the gameplay ends up being unless those features get added.

[Malakili]

As far as forming communities with chat, or whatever?  Maybe in 1999.  We use vent now.

People that already know each other use vent.   Blizzard is probably right though, people seem less willing to strike up conversations/games with strangers than they used to.  Now everyone just wants to play with people they already know, meeting as few new people along the way as possible.  Hell, even in WoW these days you are playing next to people more than with people.  When I started playing WoW players in the same area would group up all the time, just for the sake of it.  I remember grouping with a couple new people at level 5 or so on my very first day of WoW not LFG in chat, not LFG tool, just ran into them running around on Teldrassil in the NE starting area and we were all newbies so we grouped up and played for a couple hours.   Likewise, in SC if you might strike up some random chatter in chat and end up playing a few games with some random person to try out new strats and stuff.   Nowadays it seems like its either people you already know, or randoms.  Hard to get that spontaneous interaction I guess, and maybe Blizzard just doesn't think enough people care to bother implementing stuff.  Meh, now I'm just depressed.

[Wolf]

nukes in 4s 

[Sheepherder]

Hard to get that spontaneous interaction I guess, and maybe Blizzard just doesn't think enough people care to bother implementing stuff.

Not really, no.  The mass of people just isn't there until the start of the next expansion cycle.  If someone to shoot the shit with while killing monsters is really what you're looking for chances are there are levelling guilds on your server that fit that bill as well.

[Musashi]

As far as forming communities with chat, or whatever?  Maybe in 1999.  We use vent now.  If you have any other doubts that Blizzard will mold the social aspects of B.net into something which admittedly needs to be more intuitive, I invite you to peruse their resume.

Well, keep in mind this was before Activision and it's ever friendly CEO Robert Kotick got involved. Not having chat or clan-esque functionality makes it very hard to organize leagues or groups of players and of course if they really want it to be the next e-sport the region locking and no-lan play pretty much makes that impossible. The way they have structured b.net 2.0 is great for someone who wants to play a few times a week with a co-worker but terrible for any sort of clan/guild system and serious play.

They wanted to make it a social tool but they failed miserably because even steam has better friends functionality than b.net 2.0.

It just makes the game a lot less sticky, people will simply move on and I doubt it'll have the following that SC1 did no matter how balanced the gameplay ends up being unless those features get added.

Where is this Nefarious Dr. Bob, and what is he doing?  Preferably not in a link that involves a gaping e-vag blathering on while fondling cats.  I must have missed the part where he got involved, and what he's up to.  I still think that, barring some monumentally stupid move on his part, Blizzard will iron these things out over time.

People that already know each other use vent. ...snip...  Meh, now I'm just depressed.

Dude how often have you been talking to someone in a game, and they'll say, "Hey, pop in my vent."  It happens all the time - especially in complex games like WoW.  There are a lot of people who use their vents for PuGs.  I have a hard time keeping track of all the different servers in my server list.  It's just a different way of doing things.  There's no reason to be depressed.

[bhodi]

Where is this Nefarious Dr. Bob, and what is he doing?  Preferably not in a link that involves a gaping e-vag blathering on while fondling cats.  I must have missed the part where he got involved, and what he's up to.  I still think that, barring some monumentally stupid move on his part, Blizzard will iron these things out over time.

Aside from destroying Infinity Ward? Stop being a twit.

There's a giant interview over at teamliquid.net with Frank Pearce answering a bunch of questions. I'm gonna rip this summary from SA for you so you don't have to read it all:

   Activision CEO Robert Kotick has briefly mentioned his company's plans for maximizing profit from Blizzard's upcoming PC strategy sequel StarCraft II.

    "On the Blizzard side, [we need to] really be figuring out things like the StarCraft business model for the future, with in-game advertising and sponsorship, [which have] really not been something that has moved the dial for anybody in the videogame industry, but that we think presents tremendous opportunity for the future," said Kotick, according to Next-Gen.

    "[Blizzard] has been thinking about how StarCraft, because it is a short-session experience, can actually be the model for in-game advertising and sponsorship and tournament play and ladder play for the future."

    ...

    The new Battle.net will completely revolutionise the current version, but Blizzard is still looking to making this experience free for anyone buying StarCraft II or future games that use Battle.net. One idea which has been discussed in different iterations is microtransactions, meaning the service is free, but added value services like starting a custom tournament, league, or the like would cost a small amount of money.

    ...

    Blizzard wants to foster the best mod community in existence, and to that ends they've unveiled plans to single out premium custom-created maps for sales on a StarCraft 2 marketplace. Maps will be split into two categories - normal and premium - with the former free and the latter for sale, with a portion of the proceeds going to the map's creators. Blizzard hopes this will lead to more choice for StarCraft 2 players, and more innovative and creative custom maps fueled by the potential financial rewards. *SEE NEXT SECTION*

    ...

    * "User Content" means any communications, images, sounds, and all the material and information that you upload or transmit through a Game client or the Service, or that other users upload or transmit, including without limitation any chat text. You hereby grant Blizzard a perpetual, irrevocable, worldwide, paid-up, non-exclusive, license, including the right to sublicense to third parties, and right to reproduce, fix, adapt, modify, translate, reformat, create derivative works from, manufacture, introduce into circulation, publish, distribute, sell, license, sublicense, transfer, rent, lease, transmit, publicly display, publicly perform, or provide access to electronically, broadcast, communicate to the public by telecommunication, display, perform, enter into computer memory, and use and practice such User Content as well as all modified and derivative works thereof. To the extent permitted by applicable laws, you hereby waive any moral rights you may have in any User Content.

    ...

    And Tony, you know if it was left to me, I would raise the prices even further. ... "This will begin with World of Warcraft and StarCraft II," Kotick added, calling the planned service, built by the Blizzard team, "similar to Xbox Live."

    "There is no better opportunity to launch this strategic initiative than through the launch of StarCraft II," said Kotick on the call. "The Battle.net platform is an investment in the future of gaming, and an opportunity that we are uniquely positioned to capitalize on."

    ...

    In the last cycle of videogames you spent $50 on a game, played it and took it back to the shop for credit. Today, we’ll (charge) $100 for a guitar. You might add a microphone or drums; you might buy two or three expansions packs, different types of music. Over the life of your ownership you’ll probably buy around 25 additional song packs in digital downloads. So, what used to be a $50 sale is a $500 sale today.

    ...

    Kotick noted that in the past he changed the employee incentive program so that it "really rewards profit and nothing else." He continued, "You have studio heads who five years ago didn't know the difference between a balance sheet and a bed sheet who are now arguing allocations in our CFO's office pretty regularly. ... We have a real culture of thrift. The goal that I had in bringing a lot of the packaged goods folks into Activision about 10 years ago was to take all the fun out of making video games."

    Ultimately, Kotick doesn't want his employees to take anything for granted. They should always be aware of "skepticism, pessimism, and fear" in the midst of the global economic downturn. "We are very good at keeping people focused on the deep depression," he said.

    ...

    "Our gamers are telling us there's lots of services and innovation they would like to see that they're not getting yet. From what we see so far, additional content, as well as all the services Blizzard is offering, is that there is demand from the core gamers to pay up for that.”

You're also being retarded if you think that vent is any substitute. You literally can not invite people to games unless you exchange battle.net emails, and then from that point forward they can invite themselves into any game you're in! It's basically like the wii friends list shit. This makes it real easy to do tournaments as you could imagine, with trying to coordinate people exchanging emails and random people connecting to league games that you're spectating. For a social revolution, it's a giant step backwards from what they had in both sc1 and wc3. You can't look at people's profiles if they're offline, can only see your ranking in your own division, there are a lot of weird decisions they've made.

Maybe some will get fixed in the future, but really, I think we all know what happens when people start talking about "miracle patches" to fix glaring deficiencies.

[Ironwood]

Yeah, I'm not sure you'll get anywhere defending what they're doing just because 'It's Blizz !!!1!'

This is a steaming pile.  There's no escaping it.  Total fucking money grab and, sure, it'll work on the teeners and younglings, but they can fuck off if they think they're getting my money.  I was raging enough with this 'divide the game into 3, each of which has a cost' shite.

They've reset the ladders and you can't qualify now and I keep getting noobs and Diamond Enemies.  This is truly fucking humbling.

[Musashi]

Oh.  That is a monumentally stupid move.  I didn't know any of that.  I thought they were just axing lan support for piracy and still fiddling around with the friends list.  I still think they'll make it less cumbersome with the emails or whatever.

But if Kotick does all that, it won't matter.  He'll literally ruin everything.  Nobody's going to pay him for the privilege of forming a guild or hosting a tournament.  And for as high a praise as user crated content gets, there was really only one WC3 map worth paying for.  That guy should write a book and call it, "How to take a shit in a money hat."  He seems to think that because there was a fad for Guitar Hero, that he can monetize everything.  He's living in a bubble.  And he may kill short term profits.  But long term he's, how do we say, 'circling the drain.'

At least we'll still have Valve.

[DLRiley]

I  have always figured that if I was going to make a competitive game charging for tournament entry/hosting would make sense and be lucrative. Also selling mods makes sense as well (though getting this feeling that the seller will be screwed). But the current bnet2 is lacking so much with the only improvement being the automated match making. This is not looking too good for blizzard come launch.

[LK]

Oh.  That is a monumentally stupid move.  I didn't know any of that.  I thought they were just axing lan support for piracy and still fiddling around with the friends list.  I still think they'll make it less cumbersome with the emails or whatever.

But if Kotick does all that, it won't matter.  He'll literally ruin everything.  Nobody's going to pay him for the privilege of forming a guild or hosting a tournament.  And for as high a praise as user crated content gets, there was really only one WC3 map worth paying for.  That guy should write a book and call it, "How to take a shit in a money hat."  He seems to think that because there was a fad for Guitar Hero, that he can monetize everything.  He's living in a bubble.  And he may kill short term profits.  But long term he's, how do we say, 'circling the drain.'

At least we'll still have Valve.

Everything he described used to be for free. Because of its value to the game, Kotick sees it as something that should cost extra rather than be included in the package to create a more valuable product.

They don't *want* players organizing en masse on their service unless they get a piece of the action. They don't *want* people to make custom maps, distribute them, and become popular unless they get a piece of the action. I am SHOCKED anyone would want to create custom mods for any game if it means that someone like Blizzard can take it, sell it, and you don't see a dime.

Probably their best customer is the individual with no informed friends with disposable income. They won't talk to anyone before a purchase, they aren't influenced by any other factors than the one the game company provides, and they're not involved in the politics of gaming.

There's a huge war brewing of the culture of gaming (sharing, enjoying a communal experience, fun) vs. the business of gaming (profit, monetizing, applying processes to something intangible like creating fun). DLC is one of the frontlines. All this "We require you to do any transaction involving another player in the game through us" is another.

[LK]

I  have always figured that if I was going to make a competitive game charging for tournament entry/hosting would make sense and be lucrative. Also selling mods makes sense as well (though getting this feeling that the seller will be screwed). But the current bnet2 is lacking so much with the only improvement being the automated match making. This is not looking too good for blizzard come launch.

It's something that has become less clear on what's right and good as we go forward. People hosting unsanctioned tournaments involving a game, people modding games using the same tools as the devs and publicizing themselves and their skills. The company that created this stuff could either say "We're happy to be an influence / that our game is providing entertainment" or they can be "You're using our stuff to benefit yourself. So we're asking you to benefit us."

Anything beyond at home, personal use has become a very contested field.

[Malakili]

Oh.  That is a monumentally stupid move.  I didn't know any of that. 

Yeah, this is probably why it seemed like I was coming down way too hard.

[bhodi]

And of course I dearly wanted to play Nydus God, and that isn't going to happen either :(

[DLRiley]

I  have always figured that if I was going to make a competitive game charging for tournament entry/hosting would make sense and be lucrative. Also selling mods makes sense as well (though getting this feeling that the seller will be screwed). But the current bnet2 is lacking so much with the only improvement being the automated match making. This is not looking too good for blizzard come launch.

It's something that has become less clear on what's right and good as we go forward. People hosting unsanctioned tournaments involving a game, people modding games using the same tools as the devs and publicizing themselves and their skills. The company that created this stuff could either say "We're happy to be an influence / that our game is providing entertainment" or they can be "You're using our stuff to benefit yourself. So we're asking you to benefit us."

Anything beyond at home, personal use has become a very contested field.

Valve have been selling mods created with their engine for a while so has Unreal. Valve allows you to distribute your mods for free, unreal doesn't have any official channels but its licensing doesn't prevent you from free distribution. With SC2 all it takes is a group of college students to make the next dota and you pretty much opened pandora's box. What is shooting blizzard in the foot is actually offering less functionality than battlenet 1, charging more, and every "cool" option/feature being monetized. Unless blizzard starts pulling features off the ass(free chat and international play really) or sell sc2 for $30 this isn't going to end well come July.

[Fordel]

Ohh, that's helpful.  Learned I don't have to keep pressing w also. 

Last night b.net went wonky and I was in placement matches again.. that never counted. 

Started to get really annoyed with Terrans.  What's the best way to bust them (with toss or just in general) if they just turtle up (bunkers, missile turrets the entire parameter, tanks, vikings covering air  ).  Shit is really annoying.  They can just sit back and let their massive amount of vikings be annoying.

Critical Mass of VoidRays is my best guess. Like 20 or more of the bastards. Charge them up then A move to victory.

[Rasix]

Marine + tanks + shit-load o' Vikings is really starting to annoy (I'm almost giddy when I lose to an actual MMM ball).  I don't really lose, it's just bothersome to crack.  I'm still just getting the hang of Protoss though and managing to win more than I lose at my current level of competition.  It's not that bad. 

I'm not that good with void rays yet and the mass vikings make them less useful.

[Fordel]

The general player base is just catching up to the Viking cost reduction of a couple patches ago. I think most players (myself included) are often amazed at how effective Vikings can be on the ground in numbers.

"Oh shit, I won that fight? I only lost 2 jets to all his Hydras? wait wat?"
"Four vikings took out his entire mineral line? How? What's going on?"



I still wish they could use their anti-air while on the ground though :(

[Fordel]

Haha, speaking of which, patch!

http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=23094049316&postId=251691345893&sid=5000#17

TERRAN

    * Viking
          o Ground damage decreased from 14 to 12.

 


-edit- The "This is why we did this" post: http://forums.battle.net/thread.html?topicId=25172119450&sid=5000 might be a better read.

[Wolf]

guys, can we hold on the bobby doomcasting before the game actually ships? It might be a total shitstorm, the man has ruined everything he's ever touched, there's no denying that. Than again, this is Blizzard, and they're yet to shit out a turd. On private games: You CAN host private games, as well as public games. You can either invite people manually, or you can form a party in advance and when the leader creates a game everyone joins. It's incredibly convenient (MILES more so than bnet 1.0). On paid custom maps: it's purely at the creator's discretion, he can either decide to charge for a map, or not do it. I'll need a link to convince me otherwise. It's actually a not that bad an idea. On the friends debacle: I do believe identifires are coming back come release. They tried without them, it's obviously not working. On region separation: they want to use battle.net centralized billing/login system, they even made wow people tie it with their accounts. These are completely different servers, so there's where your region separation comes from. Registering two or even three accounts with one key is obviously not going to work, as game sharing becomes a major concern. Furthermore, they need region separation in PC gaming to protect the ridicolous pricing politics in the gaming industry. That's why you have PAL/NTCS. It's shit, but it is what it is. And on separating the game into three: Wings of liberty will have a lot bigger and more complete singe player than either starcraft or broodwar. Or would you have rather waited another 2-3 years, till they had finished the zerg and toss campaigns? This way we get way more story, and two more starcrafts in the next 4 years. Hell it's all good in my book.

Now, I'm not all out defending Blizzard, but I really think they've earned at least some credit. Plus vivendi is still the majority stock holder in acti-blizz, so bobby's days are numbered. Profits will drop in the next couple of years on non blizzard products and he'll get shit canned :)

btw, patch didn't fix the forever in placement issue. Last time it bugged out like that reset fixed it... so I guess it's time for some customs with my friends, something I've been playing a lot of lately :)

[Ironwood]

And of course I dearly wanted to play Nydus God, and that isn't going to happen either :(

Um, I'm flattered.  But you're not a filthy Euro, so I'm not sure how that would work.

Also, you can easily beat the Nydus God when you KNOW he's the Nydus God.

Trying to sneak up on a Terran who's got detectors and turrets and tanks everywhere is NOT FUN.

 

[Fordel]

I'm still amazed at how many Terrans fail to build a single sensor tower. One tower will cover your base, or at least the half of the base you wouldn't otherwise pay any attention too normally.

"Oh hey, a giant enemy square just appeared out of no where, maybe I should send a squad of marines to check that out!"


Really, If I am going with the "Turtle my way across the map!" plan, I pretty much build overlapping towers all the way! It's like map hacks 

[Ironwood]

Ditto to Queen Squats.

[Fordel]

The Creep Tumoring is even worse to not do, since it's basically free, provides actual vision instead of fog of war radar AND it makes all your units super annoyingly fast! (Seriously, Hydra's off Creep? Later losers! On Creep, fffuuuuu)

It takes more management admittedly though.

[sinij]

guess they think it's enough to do this.  But at the end of the day if all we have to give up is lan support, it's still a pretty small price to pay when compared to what other companies are doing.  We don't really functionally lose anything unless the internet breaks or B.net is down, and they get their way to validate your install.  In my opinion this is the right way to curb piracy.  We should be for this.

Single player better not require you to login to Bnet.

On paid custom maps: it's purely at the creator's discretion, he can either decide to charge for a map, or not do it

Paying for maps is like paying for porn, why would you do it when there is whole intrawebs choke-full of free stuff?

[Lantyssa]

Because it's handy to have at least one friend with access to Suicide Girls.