StarCraft II Beta

[Ceryse]

Finally got some time to finish out my placement matches; I went 5-0 (really 4-0 due to an DC early in one, though) in my practice rounds.. and went 3-2 in the placements. Games I won were the ones where I was able to not die due to Protoss building in my base (cannon rush in one that I was about 5 seconds too late on marines to nullify the threat before it started) and the other was a proxy of gateways in my base. Just couldn't put out enough marines to kill the zealots massing in my base.

If I can live past the early stages I seem to do okay against players of my skill level; I pretty much always aim for a Starport with a Reactor to put out around 6 Vikings and drop them in the worker line repeatedly until I get a big enough macro advantage my opponent just leaves.

Somehow got put in the Bronze league. Was kinda hoping for Copper.. seems more my speed.

[Teleku]

Protoss cannons are observers also, though, aren't they ?

(Yeah, that game was bad and it was my fault.  My Zerg game is still fucking woeful. There were more nukes in it than Starship Troopers though)

Yeah, but when a Banshee rush comes in, they rarely have more than one (if any).  A few banshee's can easily take down a sentry before it gets 1 banshee.  If he has anti air troops waiting, I just simply hover over to a different part of the base and blow it up (usually his drones).  If he brings his ground units away from the sentry, I destroy them with impunity.  If not, he's stuck cowering next to his sentry while I rape the rest of his base.

So yeah, the only real hope would be to get stalkers with an observer out.

[Mosesandstick]

There is always the danger of them making a beeline for your base and seeing who can kill each other quickest.

[Teleku]

So in a bout of Karma for my Protoss base build cheese'ing, I was playing TvP game, and he sent a drone over right off before I could seal my base.  The drone proceded to drop two gas refineries on my gas spots before I could stop him.  That certainly fucked over my banshee rushing.   

Not sure exactly how to deal with that.

[Tannhauser]

Just finished my first 4 games, went 2-2.  Won the first vs. a very new Terran (of course my first game ever too).  But I heeded Ironwood's advice and built Stalkers, worked well.  The last game was interesting in that my stalker harass attack didn't do too well but I was able to seal him up in his corner.  Turns out he was turtling and, after a few raids, I sent my carrier and void rays in...and met a wall of fire!  He wiped the board with me.  Nice tactic, he was going for the long game.  I could have won IF I had patience and exploited my command of 3/4 of the map.  Lesson learned!

[K9]

I'm rocking copper with some Dark Templar. Everyone down here seems to be playing Protoss, so I'm going Random for jokes.

[Thrawn]

I just found out for sure that you can't have more then 255 units in one group.  Then I proceeded to win the game. 

[bhodi]

Protoss cannons are observers also, though, aren't they ?

Yes, but you can skirt around them unless they cover their base, and if they do that, you can simply just expand because they've gone into total turtle mode and wasted an expansion's worth of minerals putting them up.

[Rasix]

Well, it looks like ling rushes are back in style.

[Wolf]

Euro vs Asia thing is live - http://www.ustream.tv/channel/day9tv/v3

[NowhereMan]

I feel sad how much SCII I've been watching recently, it actually seems to be an enjoyable thing to watch with decent commentators. I prefer it to real sports.

[Malakili]

I feel sad how much SCII I've been watching recently, it actually seems to be an enjoyable thing to watch with decent commentators. I prefer it to real sports.

I don't prefer to real sports, but I do prefer watching SC2 to playing SC2.

[Ironwood]

Zerged getting kicked around all over the shop and Protoss appear to be owning rather sharply.

It's getting frustrating playing random.

[Wolf]

Yeah, I'm thinking about switching off of random myself. I just don't play enough to be decent in all matchups. Can't pick between terran and zerg tho :(

[K9]

Ok, I got to play this a lot more today. I'm definitely improving, but I have a few questions/observations.

 - Walling in as Terran is an exercise in frustration, until I have practiced at every ramp I seem to have a high chance of cocking it up. When I do get it right it tends to work ok.
 - Reaper harassment is not worth the effort
 - Dark templar harassment can be worth the effort.
 - Other than drones and zerglings, what are Helions any good for?
 - How do you protect yourself from a protoss building in your base. Is the only way to constantly scout for his probe? On some mpas with fairly open base plans this seems hellish. Once he has a pylon up and a cannon on the way it's game over for me.
 - How do you deal with early zergling rushes as protoss? I had six zerglings come into my base as my first Zealot was 50% done (I cannot see how I could have got him out any quciker). Pylon goes down, and I'm dead.
 - How do you deal with a Void Ray rush as Zerg? Hydralisks just don't seem to do enough damage or survive well enough.
 - Zealots with charge are very dangerous, but most people don't seem to pick it up.
 - Not building enough production buildings and not spending my resources fast enough are what usually causes me to fall behind.
 - Fuck void rays
 - Fuck Photon cannons


All in all though, lots of fun. 

[Ironwood]

You and I must have a 2v2 and I'll show you some stuff.

[K9]

That would be great.

[Fordel]

Helions can also roast Hydra's if you have the micro for them.

[lamaros]

- Walling in as Terran is an exercise in frustration, until I have practiced at every ramp I seem to have a high chance of cocking it up. When I do get it right it tends to work ok.

Do you have grid turned on? Is of huge use for things like this.

- How do you deal with early zergling rushes as protoss? I had six zerglings come into my base as my first Zealot was 50% done (I cannot see how I could have got him out any quciker). Pylon goes down, and I'm dead.

Use your Zealot to harass, run away if they try to surround. Once you get two zeals out (quickish if you boost them) you can deal with them pretty ok if you also bring some probes off the line. If they try to kill your pylon (try to have two at this point anyhow) go to hit them, if they go to surround kite away. Repeat till second zeal out. If they go for your probes get them all to attack them, they'll go down w/o you losing too many. Also if you can wall in with one Zeal and can hold off lings on a few maps by placing him in the right position and making him hold position.

- How do you deal with a Void Ray rush as Zerg? Hydralisks just don't seem to do enough damage or survive well enough.

Build an extra queen if you know it's coming.

[Thrawn]

Whee, I've had like 5 games now where my opponent makes a big mid game push and I BARELY fight it off and push back with like 4-5 units which are my only units left to fight and my opponent just surrenders when he could of very easily won still. 

[Rendakor]

Whee, I've had like 5 games now where my opponent makes a big mid game push and I BARELY fight it off and push back with like 4-5 units which are my only units left to fight and my opponent just surrenders when he could of very easily won still. 

[NowhereMan]

You're just jealous that he's got a better win ratio due purely to people pussing out.
And what was with that random text bolding?

[Margalis]

- How do you deal with early zergling rushes as protoss? I had six zerglings come into my base as my first Zealot was 50% done (I cannot see how I could have got him out any quciker). Pylon goes down, and I'm dead.
 - How do you deal with a Void Ray rush as Zerg? Hydralisks just don't seem to do enough damage or survive well enough.

If early zerglings are getting to your base well before your first zealot the zerg is sacrificing econ to do it, and against a few zerglings probes are not too bad. Stall for your zealot then attack with zealot and probes. Even if you lose some probes you should be ahead.

Hydras beat void rays pretty well, you just need enough of them. Also try to engage before they have been shooting something else so they aren't powered up. if it's early in the game consider getting a second queen before your expansion, that way as soon as the expansion is done you can have her there and in the meantime can defend against quick air. Two queens is more than twice as good as one queen because of transfusion, and you can use that extra queen's energy for creep tumors.

I'm finding that now with roaches nerfed zerg are all going lings and protoss going lots. Lings I can deal with by mixing in some banelings, lots are a lot harder, banelings are not that cost effective against them and take a while to get. I forsee mass zealots being a real pain in the ass.

[K9]

Do you have grid turned on? Is of huge use for things like this.

I didn't know you could put the grid on, I'll try that, thanks. Also I feel that walling in as protoss is less practical than it is for terrans, since it severely suts down your ability to move around.

- How do you deal with early zergling rushes as protoss? I had six zerglings come into my base as my first Zealot was 50% done (I cannot see how I could have got him out any quciker). Pylon goes down, and I'm dead.
 - How do you deal with a Void Ray rush as Zerg? Hydralisks just don't seem to do enough damage or survive well enough.

If early zerglings are getting to your base well before your first zealot the zerg is sacrificing econ to do it, and against a few zerglings probes are not too bad. Stall for your zealot then attack with zealot and probes. Even if you lose some probes you should be ahead.

Hydras beat void rays pretty well, you just need enough of them. Also try to engage before they have been shooting something else so they aren't powered up. if it's early in the game consider getting a second queen before your expansion, that way as soon as the expansion is done you can have her there and in the meantime can defend against quick air. Two queens is more than twice as good as one queen because of transfusion, and you can use that extra queen's energy for creep tumors.

I'm finding that now with roaches nerfed zerg are all going lings and protoss going lots. Lings I can deal with by mixing in some banelings, lots are a lot harder, banelings are not that cost effective against them and take a while to get. I forsee mass zealots being a real pain in the ass.

Thanks for the advice. Mass zealots with all upgrades do seem to be very dangerous.

[Mosesandstick]

I'll post the list again in case people are still looking. Welcome Phry!

Filthy Euros:

Wolf: wolf.iclan
Mosesandstick: neth.nethalas
Der Helm: helm.helm
Ironwood: ironwood.jones
IainC: iainz0r(at)gmail(dot)com
K9: nerfed.nerfed


Silly Americans:

Nonentity: Non.nonentity
Fordel: Fordel.sturmvogel
Caladein: Caladein.cal
Vision: Vision.Vison
Quintoon: Quinton.zzz
Bhodi: bhodi.bhodi
Fuser: bin.fuser
Trias_e: trias.funkychicken
Thrawn: Thrawn.thrawn
Rasix: Rasix.rasix
Teleku: Teleku.teleku
EvilElvis: evilelvis.togh
lamaros: lamaros.lamaros
Phry: phry.phry
Vaiti: vaiti.vaiti
Lakov_Sanite: Lakov.sanite
Polysorbate80: polysorbate.polysorbate

[Wolf]

Roaches are still an amazing counter to zealots, the late game vs toss is helish though :( Had a 180vs170 fight vs a toss yesterday and I was still playing like it's a patch ago and got steamrolled, I just had no roaches to speak of :(

I'm thinking that roaches shouldn't be used at all mid-to-late game. Butchering such an important unit wihtout giving an option is pretty messed up.

Protoss against a zerg on a small map should scout after pylon, if you see the pool you should cut some probes and get the gateway going at 10. After that chrono your zealot and you're fine. Zealots DEMOLISH zerglings.

[Lantyssa]

Got the invite yesterday.  If I make a custom game is it AI?  I want to poke around without worrying about people before I decide to let myself out into the wilderness.

[Ceryse]

Got the invite yesterday.  If I make a custom game is it AI?  I want to poke around without worrying about people before I decide to let myself out into the wilderness.

It can be; create a custom game and just hit the add AI button in the game lobby. Its pretty mediocre for an AI, but it does help just to get a feel for things.

[K9]

Well, the only difficulty setting is 'Very Easy'. It's intended for people to get used to the GUI and such before they jump into real games.

I'm getting better I think. I'm not losing to the people I shouldn't and I'm beating people supposedly better than me more often than not. Had a fun 2v2 with Ironwood too.

What's the deal with the 'Favoured', 'Slightly Favoured' and 'Even Match' warning. I never seem to get any saying that I'm the favoured one. Is this a peculiarity of ELO?

[Lantyssa]

It can be; create a custom game and just hit the add AI button in the game lobby. Its pretty mediocre for an AI, but it does help just to get a feel for things.

It'll still win.

[lamaros]

Do you have grid turned on? Is of huge use for things like this.

I didn't know you could put the grid on, I'll try that, thanks. Also I feel that walling in as protoss is less practical than it is for terrans, since it severely suts down your ability to move around.

You leave a one zealot gap. Stops zerglings getting in and scouts and the like.

[bhodi]

What's the deal with the 'Favoured', 'Slightly Favoured' and 'Even Match' warning. I never seem to get any saying that I'm the favoured one. Is this a peculiarity of ELO?

That's the theory, but it has been broken for about 2 patches now.

[Mosesandstick]

It's also worth pointing out that the lower down you are the harder it is to find opponents who are worse than you (in terms of rankings).

[Phry]

Woot 10 1v1 wins in a row... and they're like murders too... i think i'm a bit better :D

[Trippy]

It can be; create a custom game and just hit the add AI button in the game lobby. Its pretty mediocre for an AI, but it does help just to get a feel for things.

It'll still win.

Make sure you turn off the "public game" option so you don't have people trying to join in.