StarCraft II Beta

[Wolf]

guys come on, that "artcile" is written by some random dude over at TL. Of course there will be people that feel butthurt. The important thing is that EVERY SINGLE PRO out there has shrugged off their concerns from the beginning of beta and is now 100% behind SC2. TL is full with people going back on their intial statment saying that SC2 skill cap is very, very high and that there's plenty of micro to go around. They even like smart casting, I think I read a post by Nony saying that he likes it because he can focus more on other micro stuff rather than managing his templars.

[Ironwood]

This is a LOT of downloading.

Almost there.

 

[Megrim]

It's not like Blizzard can forge off into new game design territory at this point with any of their properties without pissing off their fan base.

But they are pissing off their fanbase in certain ways. The changes Blizzard has made to game mechanics is akin to the changes observed when playing Super Smash Bros Brawl in comparison to Melee or Street Fighter Alpha compared to Turbo.

Good analysis of this:

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=121769

I got about half-way through that monstrosity before giving up. I'm sure he probably had a nice thought in there (somewhere) but it was drowned out by the rising tide on nonsensical whining. To be honest, i couldn't even tell what he was whining about apart from "bawwwwwwww some d+ scub beat me it's impossible!!!11".

[Murgos]

Instead of a pointless attack offer an objective point worth thinking about.

If you had watched pretty much any of the top videos you would know that, "No micro" is not a fault of SC2.  The one a couple of pages back where the Protoss player, though outnumbered 5:1 in resource nodes, held off the Zerg at a choke point with stupid sick micro for 20 minutes is a good example.

Hence, it's a stupid discussion.

[patience]

guys come on, that "artcile" is written by some random dude over at TL. Of course there will be people that feel butthurt. The important thing is that EVERY SINGLE PRO out there has shrugged off their concerns from the beginning of beta and is now 100% behind SC2.

Except that isn't true. From that very same thread.

InControl

one of the better articles I've read on SC2 thus far.

Nice work dude.

ret

I miss the feeling of being in total control of the game so much.

Even when there is a disagreement there is some acknowledgment the post isn't unfounded.

NonY

Pretty much disagree with almost everything lalush is saying. The only thing I feel partial toward is that flying units should have a true "moving shot" rather than a "gliding shot." That's a good point. But a ton of the conclusions and ideas surrounding this core idea are pretty bad.

And he elaborates a little further.

As the person who actually controls Corsairs and Phoenixes, I disagree. This article is pretty much irrelevant to Protoss players. SC:BW micro wasn't more challenging. The multitasking is the challenging part and SC2 is true to that.

Vultures, Mutas, Wraiths -- ok. Yeah they had some challenging and fun micro in BW that depends on moving shot. People would like to see a return of that kind of micro cuz it was like kiting^2. So yeah, give a few units that kind of micro and then re-balance them if needed.

So obviously pros are aware of the changes and either don't care or don't like it.

Instead of a pointless attack offer an objective point worth thinking about.

If you had watched pretty much any of the top videos you would know that, "No micro" is not a fault of SC2.  The one a couple of pages back where the Protoss player, though outnumbered 5:1 in resource nodes, held off the Zerg at a choke point with stupid sick micro for 20 minutes is a good example.

Hence, it's a stupid discussion.

That's less about micro and more about map positioning and keeping up macro to ensure he didn't die out right.

Regardless I wasn't making an extreme point that micro was removed but that the subtle changes to aspects of the game like moving shot aren't irrelevant. Blizzard has removed the ability to use a different skill set to play the game that existed in the predecessor.

[K9]

I'd love a key if there's still one going 

all out :( The friend thing is going around though, I'm sure more will pop up

No worries, thanks anyhow. 

[Ironwood]

Where's the white replays at ?

[bhodi]

Where's the white replays at ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vpuv7VPb2rA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-XXF2ypoVA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxF4XWtj4g



"Real" matches:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91XjX59O-VQ

Day9's shit which is awesome watch it:
http://www.livestream.com/striderdoom

[Mosesandstick]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91XjX59O-VQ

That is sick, seriously.

[trias_e]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=91XjX59O-VQ

That is sick, seriously.

Whatever, SC2 clearly takes no skill. 

[Sheepherder]

Instead of a pointless attack offer an objective point worth thinking about.

Dancing Mutalisks is not a tactic worth encouraging, don't be stupid.

[Wolf]

So obviously pros are aware of the changes and either don't care or don't like it.

So you gave quotes by InControl, the Assimilator Hunter and Ret that has hardly played the game. Also Noni that also played a lot less than most and said that post was mostly bullshit.

[Ironwood]

Fucking Mutalisks.

Where's all the Filthy Euros ?  I demand FRIENDS.   

[Der Helm]

Helm.helm (I think)

I am so bad, I should come around on the other side of good.

Got placed in the copper league for losing all my placement  matches. 

[Mosesandstick]

Filthy Euros:

Wolf: wolf.iclan
Mosesandstick: neth.nethalas
Der Helm: helm.helm (he thinks)
Ironwood: ironwood.jones
IainC: iainz0r(at)gmail(dot)com

Silly Americans:

Nonentity: Non.nonentity
Fordel: Fordel.sturmvogel
Ingmar: ingmar.slap
Caladein: Caladein.cal
Vision: Vision.Vison
Quintoon: Quinton.zzz
Bhodi: bhodi.bhodi
Fuser: bin.fuser
Trias_e: trias.funkychicken
Thrawn: Thrawn.thrawn
Rasix: Rasix.rasix
Teleku: Teleku.teleku
EvilElvis: evilelvis.togh

Australians who are lucky enough to play with Americans and not Koreans:

lamaros: lamaros.lamaros

I've missed a few who haven't posted names (Teleku, Margalis)

[Thrawn]

Someone less lazy than me needs to make a compiled list of everyones SC2 names somewhere.  (Thrawn.thrawn)

[Ironwood]

Yeah, that was real stupid of me.

I'm Ironwood.Jones

[lamaros]

Australian yes, but we play on the US servers.

[Ironwood]

Helm and I were like the Laurel and Hardy of the SC2 world.

Seriously.  I should upload the replay.

It's that bad.

 

[trias_e]

I just lost a game where I built nothing but banelings and he built nothing but marines.  FML.

[bhodi]

I've been doing comedy 2v2s where I build nothing but infestors. It's pretty great. It works surprisingly well!

[Wolf]

I've added you all :)

The good thing about still raiding in WoW - BONUS POINTS!

[trias_e]

I've lost 7 games in a row, mostly to all-in tier 1 units, and i cant figure out how to stop it.  Can't scout due to wall off, overlords are too slow early to scout with them.  Sadly because of this I'm way more successful 1 basing zerg at this point than anything else.  : /.  I'm actually quite successful 1 basing though so I guess I'll just go back to that.  I just don't get how early expand is plausible for zerg except on like kulas, metalopolis or lost temple.

[bhodi]

I've lost 7 games in a row, mostly to all-in tier 1 units, and i cant figure out how to stop it.  Can't scout due to wall off, overlords are too slow early to scout with them.  Sadly because of this I'm way more successful 1 basing zerg at this point than anything else.  : /.  I'm actually quite successful 1 basing though so I guess I'll just go back to that.  I just don't get how early expand is plausible for zerg except on like kulas, metalopolis or lost temple.

FE does not necessarily mean heavy drones. Go for facepokers. Try a 14 hatch 15 pool, and immediately build 2 sunkens at your exp and 2 at your main when your pool pops followed by a bunch of zerglings from both (it will pop at almost the exact same time as your expansion). Make sure to send 2 drones down to build the pokers to save time.

Alternately you can do the TLO FE zerg opening from my link above:

10 overlord
14 hatch
15 pool
15 extractor
16 roach warren  + zerglings

no queens, spawn nothing but zerglings and then roaches.

Basically, if you're going to FE you need to do it pre-pool and fortify with sunkens and focus on unit production instead of drones, even if you have map control, because you never know when those bunkers are going to drop and there are 14 marauders on the other side. You can send lings up 2 by 2 to take a peek if you want to 'scout' since when terran wall in 90% of the time their army is right on the other side.

[Der Helm]

FE?

[bhodi]

FE?

Fast expand.

A serious failing (and I do it too) is investing way too much into drones once the FE is successful. Then, 2 minutes later, when you've got an econ advantage but not a unit advantage, he does a timing push with the army that he's spent the last 3 minutes creating while you've been spawning drones. One way I mange this in my head is to build drones at the expansion but units at the main. Or, use the queen larvae for one or the other.

Also, if you successfully expand you need to transition into heavy gas units, either mutas or baneling/infestors, to really take advantage of the double gas.

[Der Helm]

Helm and I were like the Laurel and Hardy of the SC2 world.

Seriously.  I should upload the replay.

It's that bad.

 

My favourite was blocking the ramp with my cannons so your Thors could not get past them 

[Wolf]

vs. which races btw? I go one base vs Terran always, too hard to stop a Marauder push if you expand, and he isn't anyway. Unless it's Desert Oasis, which is so broken in zerg's favour it's not even funny.

I really want ot try that new Dimaga build out. 2 gas into quick Lair, speedlings to defend, late expand into Muta & Infestor.

Anyway, vs. P it's a free win. 90% of the time he'll zealot sentri push off of 5 wg, with early pressure on your expo if he's smart. Basically 14 pool, 16 hatch, queen straight to expo when she spawns and you're fine. Try to scout with lings, if it doesn't work, suicide ovies to try to scout and get lair ASAP. Next scout is your Overseer, morph him with an ovie close to his base, and just fly around. It's free speed and has changlings you can drop in his base for extra scouting.

If you see 3+ gates, he's pushing you early. Start massing drones, put a roach warren down, and go OVERBOARD on the sunkens. Seriously, 10+, 11+ doesn't matter, as much as it takes to survive. As soon as he starts pushing, start building roaches at your expo, drone at the main  - he'll hax field the ramp, so no point in making units there. If you have enough sunkens, congrats on winning :) If you stop that, push back with roaches, but don't go in and expand again. Move your remaining sunkes into a contain position close to his base and try to get a 4th asap. Get a shitload of roach/hydra while going for hive, greater spire and broodlords.

If you see a stargate he's going void raid, build 2 extra queen, put down hydra den fast, kill him as soon as you stop void rays :)

If you see a robo, laugh at his face, stop his push if he's at one base and expand again. Hydra/roach destroys immortal pushes; Colossus need the upgrade to be viable, and by the time he goes out with 3 you'll have so much stuff he'll cry :)

edit: you guys post too much :( My post was totally relevant when I started it like an hour ago :(

[Teleku]

Teleku.teleku is my account name.  Thankfully, I'm so bad I got dropped down to the Bronze level, so now I actually win more often!

I've been having good luck Banshee rushing with Terrans against Protoss.  I don't think I've actually lost yet against a Protoss when I've tried that.  They never rush, so its easier to do.

[Ironwood]

Burrowing Zerg are bad bastards.

Well, Mine Were.

 

[Samwise]

Helm and I were like the Laurel and Hardy of the SC2 world.

Seriously.  I should upload the replay.

It's that bad.

 

My favourite was blocking the ramp with my cannons so your Thors could not get past them 

"Ach, here's another fine mess you've gotten us intae".

[Ironwood]

Nah, I just blew them up.  I like Blawin' things up.

[Der Helm]

Nah, I just blew them up.  I like Blawin' things up.

How did you get those Thor's so fast anyway ? 

[Ironwood]

Thors are actually easy to get that quick.  Alas, it's then you learn that due to the countering strategies required for SC2, you're probably fucked anyway.  It seems to be quantity you want over quality...

On that note, I just played a game where someone used the 'Teleport lots of fucking protoss into your base because you didn't notice the cunting pylon right next to you' strat.  I would imagine this happens a lot and even now you're all screaming 'You Noob'.

Dammit.

DAMMIT.

I haven't had a game last over 10 mins, win or lose.  This game is Nasty, Brutish and Short.

I'm enjoying it quite a bit.

[Mosesandstick]

At least from what I've played, people don't use warp prisms that much, I don't think I've seen a single player ('part from meself) use them.