Engineering

[Delmania]

Anyone with experience with Engineering?  Some of the guys at Arena Junkies were saying that hand enchants were worth it.  I am going to go the standard 0/17/54 Destro spec on my warlock when hits 80, and I was thinking of dumping Tailoring for Engineering.   Anyone got some info?

[Merusk]

If you like throwing gold away, go engy.  Perhaps its changed in LK, but most of the good tools were nerfed to mere parlor tricks in BC, when I dropped it.

The only hand enchants I see are the haste gloves and rockets  You're blowing a GCD where you could have dropped any other instant spell or dot that does more after spellpower and talents are taken into consideration.   The haste I'd guess is so-so, but I can't see dropping my Tailoring leg enchants for it.

Most of the fascination with the gloves seems to come from "zomg rocket gloves!"  They don't stun like the old rockets did.. although they do have a 45 yard range.  It is another burst ability, which is useful for locks who lack instant burst.

[Vash]

Engineering is almost a must for very serious Arena/PvP play and Prior to the nerfs in 3.1 it was unquestionably a balance breaking advantage.  You should note that professions aren't allowed on the Tournament Realm, most likely because of Engineering.

There are 3 main gadgets/enchant/items you want from engineering for PvP purposes if you decide to go that route.

Hands:  Ranged classes and healers will want the hyperspeed accelerators for the significant haste on use ability which is basically a mini-heroism, mele will need to decide between the haste or the rockets which are usefull for applying some damage while closing ground/being kited.  The rockets are no longer on the GCD and have a shorter cd in 3.1 if I remember the patch notes correctly.

Boots: Nitro boosts are now an engineering boot enchant instead of separate boots with crappy stats.  They are an amazing escape/kiting tool especially for classes that are typically fairly limited in that department (cough*warlock*cough).  They can also be used offensively to close a large distance quickly.

Trinket:  Last but not least is the Lightning Generator.  This one probably causes the most grief for and outrage from people who don't have engineering and don't like it being useable in arenas.  It takes up a trinket slot but in return you get a very solid burst damage tool usable even when your silenced.  In fact with a full team of engineers in 3's or 5's it was very possible to coordinate the use of everyones LG and flat out insta-gib someone.

If you check the 3.1 patch notes you will see that nearly all of these things got the nerf bat and for good reason.  Even after the nerfs they are still useful and fairly powerful and so I expect the trend of "hardcore" pvp crowd using Engineering to continue.

[LK]

Engineering provides enhanced power or additional versatility you wouldn't otherwise normally have for your class. That's why it's good.

[apocrypha]

I have an orc who flies a helicopter. Engineering is totally worth it. 

[Kail]

Most engineering stuff is useless crap, and it costs a fortune to raise.

But there's nothing that's really comparable to it.  Blacksmiths/leatherworkers/tailors can create kickass armor, but you can get better gear elsewhere, while there isn't anywhere else you can get comparable gear to almost anything in the engineering list (aside from the goggles, guns, and ammo).  Blizzard started to try to compensate for this (giving smiths that socketing ability, for example) but still, most of the other tradeskills are useful for helping others, while Engineering is almost exclusively for helping yourself.

[JWIV]

I have an orc who flies a helicopter. Engineering is totally worth it. 

I'm grinding that fucking rep now to pick up the stupid elemental seaforioum charges (haven't found anyone willing to sell me it on the server).

Engineering is pricey, but for some reason I've always loved it.  Boom goes the dynamite!

[Gobbeldygook]

But there's nothing that's really comparable to it.  Blacksmiths/leatherworkers/tailors can create kickass armor, but you can get better gear elsewhere

Stop right there.  You do not take any of the other professions because of the gear you can make.  You take professions on your main because of the BOP benefits.  This means the JC gems, the BS sockets, etc.  DPS kills bosses.  Mail boxes do not.

I dropped engy after I bought two BOE blacksmithing helms that were not only equal, but better than my engy goggles.  Last time I checked, Engy is absolutely inferior to every other profession in PVE from any perspective, even the gathering ones.  The 3.1 engy stuff doesn't change that.  You take engy if you want to be a serious arena PVPer and are OK with being sub-par in PVE.

It's also amazing for certain twink brackets.

[Kail]

But there's nothing that's really comparable to it.  Blacksmiths/leatherworkers/tailors can create kickass armor, but you can get better gear elsewhere

Stop right there.  You do not take any of the other professions because of the gear you can make.  You take professions on your main because of the BOP benefits.  This means the JC gems, the BS sockets, etc.

Some people do, yeah, but there were still people taking professions like Blacksmithing before the sockets were introduced.  I've been in guilds where there was an "official" Blacksmith/Tailor/what have you, whose job it was to outfit other guildies, while there is really no point to an Engineer performing that role.  Some people get a kick out of that kind of thing.

Though I don't disagree that engineering seems fairly useless in raiding.  Most of it's purpose seems to be weird little quirky items which have the side effect of diversifying your abilities somewhat, which is handy in PvP or solo play but useless in a raid where you have a very clearly defined role.

[Malakili]

Some people do, yeah, but there were still people taking professions like Blacksmithing before the sockets were introduced.  I've been in guilds where there was an "official" Blacksmith/Tailor/what have you, whose job it was to outfit other guildies, while there is really no point to an Engineer performing that role.  Some people get a kick out of that kind of thing.

The problem is you are comparing WoW to WoW: Lich King, two radically different games.  Back then there were very specific reasons to have guild crafters: (Ony Cloaks, FR gear, then NR gear, etc).   There were also a variety of pretty solid recipes at a time when a lot of people simply couldn't get good gear becuase they couldn't do 40 man raids (Hide of the Wild was an awesome cloak for a very long time).   After Burning Crusade blizzard went more to the direction of making professions a means to getting items or bonuses for yourself.  There were very few examples of this pre-BC (Robe of the Void, that healy one i can't remmeber the name of). 

Anyway, back on topic: Go engineering if you think shenanigans are fun and have plenty of gold to spare.  This won't radically change the way you play the game, other than to give you some unique, neat looking stuff, and some gimmicky bonuses.  There are a few legitimately good items, but if you have access to raid level gear, its going to look less appealing.

[Xanthippe]

Engineering has been sadly neglected though, as a profession.  I'm an engineer mostly for the fun (and the ammo) but much of the fun stuff is missing.  The mailbox and scrapbots are nice (although I don't use the scrapbots hardly ever - still using the ones I leveled on). 

The gimmicks have been nerfed too much.  Parachute cloak lasts for 6 seconds or something dumb.  Can't even jump off Tanaris anymore to get to Un'goro without dying.

[Zetor]

Engineering is pretty much only useful for pvp. [nitro boosts, hand-mounted rocket, accelerators, and the much-hated-and-now-nerfed lightning generator all give a significant edge in arena]. The bombs are situationally good in wintergrasp and SOTA; the parachute is good in AB (lm->smith, smith->mine), EOTS (headstart) and ganking people on fliers if you're an elemental shaman / boomkin / fire mage (very annoying).

There's really no pve applicability; the headpiece is outclassed by heroic gear (unlike BC where engi helms were on par with tier5), and all 'engineer enchants' are just bursty pvp tricks instead of the massive stat boosts every other profession gets. OTOH I won't ever drop engineering because, well, 


-- Z.

[Vash]

It's got some PvE use for hunters because of the ammo, but even that is getting phased out once they finalize the transition to hunters not using ammo and it just being a buff item similar to relics/totems/librams/idols.

[Ingmar]

We use repair bots all the time in PVE, they really speed up wipe recovery.

[Vash]

We use repair bots all the time in PVE, they really speed up wipe recovery.

That will be the last PvE niche left for engineering but even that is being phased out by things like having NPC's who can repiar right inside the instance (ulduar) or right outside the entrance to the instance.

[Soulflame]

There's also the possibility of using the expensive mount for repairs.

[Kail]

...the headpiece is outclassed by heroic gear...

LIES!  Nothing is classier than the headpiece!

[Xanthippe]

And the fun stuff is all going to the card game.

So will they make engineering somehow relevant, or will they phase it out?

[Vash]

I can see them just making it the default PvP and fun gadget profession and putting more effort into that side of it, since it is pretty much already there anyway.  Don't really see an easy way for them to make it more relevant in PvE and I highly doubt they will just phase it out.

[Paelos]

They need to update the goggles like they did with the Sunwell recipes, but not as stupid.

[Merusk]

They're probably not going to.  All of the crafted bits are deliberaly inferior to raid gear in WOTLK, because in BC everyone bitched that professions were "mandatory" now because the gear = T5.  Now of course they weren't mandatory, but you were gimping yourself by not being a profession master and being a hardcore raider.  That was just another upgrade slot you had to farm for instead of crafting.

[Paelos]

Then they need to make more item enhancements. I'd like the ability for engineers to add sockets to different items than smithing, and I think it would be viable for them to put in some raid appropriate enchants that are different than the standard enchanter stuff. Like for example, belt enchants that give stats, or better yet, trinket enhancements. That would be freaking awesome.

[Fordel]

I'd be happy if the current eng 'enchants' would stack with real enchants.



Rocket Gloves or 20 hit rating, hrmmm...

[Ingmar]

I'd be happy if the current eng 'enchants' would stack with real enchants.



Rocket Gloves or 20 hit rating, hrmmm...

The rocket gloves maybe not, but the glove haste enchant is competitive with other glove enchants, and the 800 armor to gloves thing is really freaking good.

[Paelos]

The armor glove enchant is a good example of one that works in pve. What they need is more of those, and they need engineers to be the only ones who can enchant belts with something decent.

[Ingmar]

The armor glove enchant is a good example of one that works in pve. What they need is more of those, and they need engineers to be the only ones who can enchant belts with something decent.

The engineering belt enchants do stack with the smithing belt buckle I believe. I think all the 'extra socket' stuff stacks with everyting?

[Trebes]

The engineering belt enchants do stack with the smithing belt buckle I believe. I think all the 'extra socket' stuff stacks with everyting?

The useful engineering belt enchants distill down to the Belt Clipped Spynoculars so you can find gas clouds after you upgrade your helmet. That's it. And it is useful for flying around farming raw materials, not doing whatever your actual class role is.


The Articulated Armor Webbing for gloves is very attractive. I'm currently using Armsman, but my next pair of tanking gloves are getting the armor.

[Paelos]

Yes, by "useful" belt enchants I mean things like stat procs or passive increases to ratings. An enchant that passively increased block rating and procced a small shield for like 200 damage for 5s would be nice. Stuff like that.

[Trebes]

Sooooo...

Engineering

    * Increased benefits from Hyperspeed Accelerators, Hand-Mounted Pyro Rocket, and Reticulated Armor Webbing glove modifications

I am really hoping for Even More Reticulated Armor Webbing in 3.2. I don't really care about the other tinkers, but I do love my armor.

I also didn't notice until today that engineer druids couldn't put the armor enchant on their leather gloves. Oh how I laughed at our beargineer over that.



Oh, and you can pretty much ignore everything everyone above this post said about Engineering in Arena now.

[MellowYella]

I also didn't notice until today that engineer druids couldn't put the armor enchant on their leather gloves. Oh how I laughed at our beargineer over that.

Actually armor class limitations are being removed in 3.2

I play a well geared elemental shaman with 4 piece T8.5 and a sizeable chunk of BIS or 2nd BIS gear, my profs are engineering and alchemy, the engineering is pretty great for dps with hyperspeed accelerators and a good cloak enchant for casters as well.

I use the rockets as a glove enchant for arena since it supplements my burst pretty well, and I use my usual pve enchants for that as well.

There are other benefits you can make your own pets, which is something no other profession can use(all the pets are robotic whereas if a non engineer wants a robotic pet they have to use other venues like the battle bot pet at the Mountain Dew microsite http://bit.ly/u1DBp

fix't

[sickrubik]

There are other benefits you can make your own pets, which is something no other profession can use(all the pets are robotic whereas if a non engineer wants a robotic pet they have to use other venues like the battle bot pet at the Mountain Dew microsite).

That was just your shot at getting a referrer, wasn't it.

Anyway, non-engineers can use the pets, just not create them. The actual pets don't require engineering and aren't BoP.

[MellowYella]

I was thinking more along the lines of li'l smoky.  He's my favorite pet since he looks like a repair bot, i believe he's BoP and a fairly unique pet.

[Jayce]

There are other benefits you can make your own pets, which is something no other profession can use(all the pets are robotic whereas if a non engineer wants a robotic pet they have to use other venues like the battle bot pet at the Mountain Dew microsite).

That was just your shot at getting a referrer, wasn't it.

If it was, it was a poor one, because that URL is all sorts of mangled.

[schild]

at the Mountain Dew microsite).

Don't do that.

[Phunked]

The thing I dislike about the armor to gloves is that you have to give up 2% threat for it, which is a pretty significant loss, especially on threat sensitive stuff like hodir, vezax hard.

That's probably the only reason I still have JC/BS  and can convince people that I don't need to go engineering to min/max tanking. Would be super good for pve though, since DMC: Death, Bandit's and the Blasty Gloves of Lulburst would be some nice stuff, especially as a frost strike spec.