Dungeon Blather

[Sjofn]

It helps that the WotLK heroics are a better stepping stone to gear up than TBC heroics were. Some of them were way too hard for someone who had run the regular 70 dungeons enough to feel like it was time for the next step, and the loot was often not worth the trouble. It was easier to just do Kara.

I loved tanking regular BM on my druid, though. I found it relaxing. <3

[Rasix]

Ahh yes, I remember that fondly.  It gave people the false impression that I was actually good at tanking.

I didn't care for the heroic modes of either BC CoT instance (I rarely ever did them and no one wanted to). However, I enjoyed the pacing, story, and overall experience of them in regular mode and ran them whenever someone wanted to, even if I was completely over-geared for them.

[Fordel]

The Auchidon dungeons were just some of the worst dungeons ever made.


That one with the boss that was virtually impossible without a Druid. 

[Arinon]

Heroic BC dungeons were really poorly itemized compared to WotLK as well.

[Hindenburg]

You gents are failing to remember that those things were absolutely golden compared to vanilla.

[Rasix]

You gents are failing to remember that those things were absolutely golden compared to vanilla.

Of course, I think that's been discussed earlier in this thread.  I did like DM East, DM North and Strath dead side for max level. DM itemization started to finally make sense but when it released that was really only relevant for my alt.  There just wasn't a whole lot of options and the other dungeons were just long and not worth the effort if you were in a guild doing any sort of raiding.

Leveling up I only bothered with SFK and SM for alts and didn't even bother with that for my warlock. Spell caster gear is just so goddamned terrible until you hit Outland.

[Hindenburg]

Spell caster gear is just so goddamned terrible until you hit the AH.

Leveling a warlock in pure shadow wrath gear was amusing. Old world elite mobs were mostly fearable, with very rare exceptions.

[Rasix]

Heh, I doubt that stuff would be available on my server. I'm not saying the lack of gear is making anything difficult.  I haven't faced an elite mob yet that's given me any trouble.

[K9]

That one with the boss that was virtually impossible without a Druid. 

What?

SLabs was a really fun instance once you had enough gear to do it in under 2 hours. The 7-mob pulls before Blackheart were always fun  The only Achunidoun instance that really blowed was crypts.

I didn't care for the heroic modes of either BC CoT instance (I rarely ever did them and no one wanted to).

They were arguably the toughest heroics, along with Arcatraz. In fact I miss the level those dungeons were tuned at. Completing Arcatraz for the first time felt like an accomplishment. On the flip side, heroic BM was the fastest badge farm bar none once you could comfortably 1-shot the whole instance.

[Paelos]

Arcatraz was tough because the last boss was so horribly overtuned at the time. 

[Fordel]

What?

This happy fellow : http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=18371

AKA: haha fuck anyone with a cast time

[Chimpy]

Mana-tombs was ok once you got a decent group of people who knew it. Crypts was terrible simply because the bridge of LOL KNOCKBACK TO CORPSE RUN and the fact it took longer than Shadow Labs and only had 2 bosses.

[Gobbeldygook]

I often told guild mates that crypts was the worst instance in BC.  They always thought I was exaggerating until I took them along.  I never had someone ask to come along twice.  Here's why it sucks:

• Invisible ambushing mobs.  In the original incarnation of CRYPTS, there were hostile non-elite mobs that would randomly ambush you.  They were later made neutral.
• The first part of the trash takes practice to pull without overpulling.  Almost every pull also involves doing two pick-ups, first of the elites and second of the non-elites.  The non-elites can include ones that cast a 5-second uninterruptible mind control on the tank forcing a wipe.
• THE BRIDGE OF DOOM.  I have never cleared the instance without someone being punted off the bridge and enjoying the nice, long walk.
• The first boss is insanely unfair to certain healers, particularly paladins and shaman, due to the cast time debuff.  He is also unfair to melee thanks to a harsh AOE bleed.
• The second part of the trash is complete bullshit.  It's a series of skeleton pulls.  Half of them have a mild enrage, half of them periodically wipe their aggro list.
• TWO BADGERS.
• The bosses drop a number of amazingly terrible items.  We're talking ele shaman gear, mail with mp5 and attack power, gear with resilience, and a single piece of the level 70 dungeon set.

They don't make 'em like they used to, thank god.

[K9]

• TWO BADGERS.
• The bosses drop a number of amazingly terrible items.  We're talking ele shaman gear, mail with mp5 and attack power, gear with resilience, and a single piece of the level 70 dungeon set.

Crypts actually dropped 3 badges, since there was an extra boss on heroic. And there was a balance of some really nice items in there too. Still a wank dungeon and not challenging in a fun way though.

This happy fellow : http://www.wowhead.com/?npc=18371

AKA: haha fuck anyone with a cast time

Ah, you got me with the druid thing. As a priest I never wiped on him once, but I can understand how paladins really wouldn't enjoy the fight.

Arcatraz was tough because the last boss was so horribly overtuned at the time. 

Arcatraz also had probably the most interesting trash of any dungeon in WoW imo. While I broadly agree that the WoTLK model is more accessible, I do equally miss the feelling that some heroics were.... heroic.

[apocrypha]

Crypts actually dropped 3 badges

OK that makes more sense. I was racking my brain trying to remember any giant badgers in there and just getting DaoC flashbacks 

[Fabricated]

Crypts sucked shit since the trash to boss ratio was awful and there were mobs with really fucking long mind controls. So long that you would wipe before it wore off and the victim would have to sit there and wait for it to wear off.

The CoT instances were really cool and atmospheric though. Shattered Halls and Ramparts were also passable on atmosphere/fun/looks. Heroic Shattered Halls somehow made 5-6 mob pulls fun where Shadow Labs made you want to unsub.

[dd0029]

The big shattered halls pulls were good because they were completely controlled and fairly similar mobs so it did not really matter which order you killed them in and they were followed up by the guy that was in his base killing his mans.  You fought on your terms.  Shadow Lab had the pats, definite kill orders and it was followed up by the boss that actively fucked DPS over for gearing up.  Shattered Halls is controlled chaos.  Shadow Labs is just chaos.

[Malakili]

Its not really surprising that BC had some pretty hard heroics.  At that time, I think they were trying to match the difficulty of raids.  Original Gruul's lair (before they nerfed it again and again), was very hard, and the hardest 5man heroics matched it in difficulty (by appropriate geared players of course). 

If I recall correctly, both Shattered Halls and Shadow Labs Heroics had something to do with original Attunement for "The Eye", so they were overtuned to still be difficult to players who were clearing Kara, Gruul's, Magtheridon, and possibly even some SSC.

There was also some progression to BC heroics that doesn't really exist in Wrath, in my opinion.  In wrath, pretty much all of them have the same generally difficulty level (read: low), where as in BC, there were definitely some very easy ones that seemed to be designed to get people into the idea of hard 5mans.

[Paelos]

Original Gruul's Lair was the epitome of overtuned when it released as the first 25 man.

Maulgar was the hammer, and the tank was the nail. I got pounded into the ground in the first few hits so many times, "I'm dead, run out" became a running joke in my alliance to this day.

[K9]

There are definitely easier LK heroics (VH, UK, Strat) but the only hard one (Occulus) is hard due to the vehicle gimmicks and not truly challenging NPCs.

[Ingmar]

There are definitely easier LK heroics (VH, UK, Strat) but the only hard one (Occulus) is hard due to the vehicle gimmicks and not truly challenging NPCs.

I think Pinnacle counts as hard too. The monster trophy room and the Skadi gauntlet are both hard on PUGs.

[Vash]

Final bosses of AN and HoL are both very tough if your group is not decked out in heroic/raid gear and the entire Old Kingdom instance is rough in Heroic.

[Nevermore]

There are definitely easier LK heroics (VH, UK, Strat) but the only hard one (Occulus) is hard due to the vehicle gimmicks and not truly challenging NPCs.

I think Pinnacle counts as hard too. The monster trophy room and the Skadi gauntlet are both hard on PUGs.

I must have had good luck with UP groups then.  Both heroic UP pugs I've been in had no problem with it.  Old Kingdom, on the other hand...   

[Rasix]

UP groups I've been in haven't had a problem.  We did have a fun Ymir fight when the entire group got stunned on top of one of his orb things.  Luckily he was almost dead.  Of course, I've never pugged the place and my unguilded friend never had one that went smoothly (Skadi problems). 

I've never done Occulus (reg or heroic) as no one ever wants to do it.  I never pug OK, AN, HOS, or HOL unless I know it's a very good group going in.  I will never, ever heal Heroic HOS again after a very bad time healing that Maiden bitch (I'm not a great healer as I don't do it often. Fight is hard on a shaman and the DPS was fucking awful). 

Everything else is fair game.  Any of them can get messy if your tank or healer sucks, but that's not too often of an occurance.

[Ingmar]

The main trick with Maiden of Grief is to run into a void zone right before she casts that group-wide incapacitate so the void zone damage will break it.

[Paelos]

The one takeaway from this expansion for the dev team is that flying combat is completely unacceptable in a raiding format. In a quest, MAYBE, but never trying to coordinate groups of people to get on the same z-axis and fight with abilities they never use.

[Ingmar]

On the plus side, the Ulduar vehicle combat is actually pretty fun. I was really afraid it was going to suck like Malygos.

[Paelos]

Ground vehicles on the whole don't suck because there isn't a Z axis. I would like for them to put in ships into the game at some point for ship-to-ship combat. PIRATES STYLE!

[Malakili]

The one takeaway from this expansion for the dev team is that flying combat is completely unacceptable in a raiding format. In a quest, MAYBE, but never trying to coordinate groups of people to get on the same z-axis and fight with abilities they never use.

To me its like any gimmicky fight or mechanic, its interesting the first time, ho hum the second time, and annoying every subsequent time.  Vehicles add for some interesting possibilities in WoW, but I think overall they are implemented very poorly, with a few exceptions that work fairly well.  

Let me play my damn class, I chose it for a reason.

[Ingmar]

Ground vehicles on the whole don't suck because there isn't a Z axis. I would like for them to put in ships into the game at some point for ship-to-ship combat. PIRATES STYLE!

[Fordel]

That's what WotLK needed, us departing a troop transport, storming the snowy beaches.

[Ingmar]

That's what WotLK needed, us departing a troop transport, storming the snowy beaches.

You mean like Strand? 

[Fordel]

That's what WotLK needed, us departing a troop transport, storming the snowy beaches.

You mean like Strand? 

Strand is more like, walk onto the beaches and don't get sun burned.

[K9]

We need more submarines in WoW

[WindupAtheist]

I love how half the higher-end five man shit (even non-heroic) in BC requires a key or some other bullshit. Way to make sure those instances see less activity than Deadmines once the next expansion hit.