Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[tmp]

especially if you could hang on to cool looking gear and make it useful -- outleveling some of my favorite cool-looking clothing or weapons in FFXI always made me sad!

Supposedly at higher level you get access to "skinning" option for gear -- you can take a piece of equipment and attach visual model of another piece to it (the piece which is to supply the visuals is destroyed in the process)

There doesn't indeed seem to be that much variety in the gear appearance though. Spent quite a while previewing the pieces in AH during chinese beta and there's plenty of repetition with different dye applied there through the levels. Then again, it's par for the course with the MMO equipment.

[Shatter]

Ok, I've done a little reflection. I can say this with confidence the true reason why Aion can't grab me at all.
After killing fellow players in Northwarden and Morkaine Temple for exp & levels of Warhammer, I just simply cannot stomach hunting 20 butterflies and assortments of wolves, bears and furries for 20 levels just to take a peek at the RVR.

I basically agree with that but getting to level 20 was not very time consuming at all.

But is it fun?

I found the fun factor depends on class.  Assasin was fun to level, so was cleric.  DIdnt enjoy Ranger and hated leveling a Templar.  Also became a lot more fun if I grouped and did elites or farmed named mobs by channel hopping and killing a named in all 10 channels :)

[Threash]

Ok, I've done a little reflection. I can say this with confidence the true reason why Aion can't grab me at all.
After killing fellow players in Northwarden and Morkaine Temple for exp & levels of Warhammer, I just simply cannot stomach hunting 20 butterflies and assortments of wolves, bears and furries for 20 levels just to take a peek at the RVR.

I basically agree with that but getting to level 20 was not very time consuming at all.

But is it fun?

Its always fun the first time, unless your game is called WAR.

[rk47]

Disagree, I didn't find it that fun to grind to 10 in Aion and I'm still struggling to find the fun at Lvl 12 bashing Mumus with random party.. But in Warhammer, running around in RVR scenarios right from the get-go was fun. Although sometimes you end up in a lousy teams, I didn't have to worry about killing the right mobs, right clicking the boxes out there in the wilds. WAR didn't finish off a strong start well, but it'd be harsh to say it wasn't fun when I enjoyed the T1-T2 RVR tremendously.

[amiable]

WAR didn't finish off a strong start well, but it'd be harsh to say it wasn't fun when I enjoyed the T1-T2 RVR tremendously.

Yeah, it's so disappointing when I remember how much fun I had in those tiers.  I could play nordenwatch for 6 months and not get bored.  Please other companies steal some of the few good ideas WAR had.

[Falconeer]

I liked the idea of PvP from the get go in Warhammer. Turned out twenty minutes in my feeling was: "Why am I playing a silly CTF?" and felt the urge to go back to Team Fortress.

Arenas, scenarios, and instanced PvP in general in MMOs are the opposite of what I like (unless it's a tournament), which is open world PvP. And while I'd hate to need 50 levels to get into it, I am perfectly fine with about 20. Since apparently everyone but me and Slayerik would hate it at level 1.

Again not saying one thing is better than the other. It's all about personal tastes, and my tastes push me forward. Forward to the worldly PvP and, as a bonus, to the next nice dress for my dolly. So yes, to me 20 levels has been decently fun. After that, it's still a mystery.

Of course, if someone's tastes are for fair, instant action PvP, then open worlders are not going to ever be fun, no matter the level.

[tazelbain]

> open world PvP
Until someone comes up with a model for open PvP that works, is fun and doesn't have make the playerbase cannibalize itself, I'll take sport PvP over collect 60 wolf pelts.

[Falconeer]

"60 wolf pelts" is not the trademark of Aion. 60 wolf pelts is the trademark of all MMORPGs, from EQ (1999) to Aion (2009) via WoW (2004).

If with "sport PvP" you mean Team Fortress, Counterstrike, any Battlefield or Call of Duty and the likes then I am with you. If you mean Arathi Basin or Nordenwatch, then ok. We disagree. Fine.

[Venkman]

So what is the PvPvE like? Anyone with first hand experience? I'm curious how the various classes fair. At first I'd imagine they'd fall along the same lines of advantage/disadvantage as early WoW, as there just aren't THAT many abilities
per class and with pretty much none of the SB mix and match. I'd just like to know if this is going to follow the same FoTM arms race as usual or there's something more balanced after 20 by nature.

[Draegan]

Well beta has been capped at 30, so it's hard to tell so you would need to go find a Korean.

From what I've heard, most classes are balanced.  Some classes do well against some and bad against others.  A really tough class to kill is a cleric because they have good armor and heals.  But their dps is low.  Other than that, I've yet to see or read about any crazy unbalance.

PvPvE is Fortress Sieging and gaining access to dungeons.

[Venkman]

Das cool. The leveling seemed pretty well paced, so wasn't sure how many here got past the 20 milestone. I've heard healers were the way to go and scouts were largely gimp, but ya never know ingame whose actually been there and alt'ing up vs parroting forum posts

There a good site for Aion that isn't out of date?

[Morfiend]

Das cool. The leveling seemed pretty well paced, so wasn't sure how many here got past the 20 milestone. I've heard healers were the way to go and scouts were largely gimp, but ya never know ingame whose actually been there and alt'ing up vs parroting forum posts

There a good site for Aion that isn't out of date?

aionsource.com

If you can stomach all the mouthbreathers.

[Severian]

So what is the PvPvE like? Anyone with first hand experience? I'm curious how the various classes fair. At first I'd imagine they'd fall along the same lines of advantage/disadvantage as early WoW, as there just aren't THAT many abilities
per class and with pretty much none of the SB mix and match. I'd just like to know if this is going to follow the same FoTM arms race as usual or there's something more balanced after 20 by nature.

You can check out the link Draegan posted a ways back:

WARNING: MMORPG Forum link
A little insight from the Korean server on endgame PVP.

If you don't mind reading a little engrish, the OP of this threads plays on the Korean server and he discusses a lot of things from the high end game play.  He talks about the Abyss, group composition etc.  He's also the person who made the video I posted recently.  It's a good read if you want an experienced look at the Abyss end game.  He also has Korean and NA DAOC experience.  I found it informative.  Keep reading the thread, the OP answers a lot of questions.

[Venkman]

Thanks. That video was interesting enough, but my God, that soundtrack. I haven't heard Quicksilver-era pop since I dumped my tape collection.

Aionsource... been scared of Curse ever since they had that banner ad/keylogger thing. But thanks, I'll check it out.

[Severian]

Thanks. That video was interesting enough, but my God, that soundtrack. I haven't heard Quicksilver-era pop since I dumped my tape collection.

The link's value isn't in the video, it's for his many posts in that thread, just keep reading it.

[Draegan]

Das cool. The leveling seemed pretty well paced, so wasn't sure how many here got past the 20 milestone. I've heard healers were the way to go and scouts were largely gimp, but ya never know ingame whose actually been there and alt'ing up vs parroting forum posts

There a good site for Aion that isn't out of date?

There isn't any good site for Aion right now.  The only major online community is Aionsource and it's full of idiots and misinformation.  Do not go there for any news or information unless you will want to parse through everything which is automatically hard for someone who doesn't know much about the game.

Scouts arn't gimp.  Rangers are very tedious to play from levels 10 to 15 because they only have two ranged attacks and no chains other than the melee one.  You have to manage melee and ranged abilities at the same time manually switching your weapons (which you can hotkey easy enough).  At 16 you get your first chain and you can stop melee'ing.  At 19 you get another powerful attack and it gets better.  Eventually Rangers become extremely powerful.  They are the heaviest spike damger in the game.  Their damage is very random also.  Some of there abilities, even at 19, can do 400 damage, or 900 not critting.  If you get a string of lucky crits/hits you can one shot an unsuspected squishy person.  However if you don't you may get stuck because everything is on cooldown and you don't have anything until it all comes off.  Cooldowns range from 8 seconds to 30 seconds to 1 minute.  As a ranger you don't want to go after a templar, gladiator or cleric unless they are disadvantaged in some way.

On the other hand, assassins are the fastest grinders in the game.  If you like farming, this is your class as they can burst down a mob in under 7 seconds at higher levels.  They also have the highest sustained DPS in the game.  They can also be squishy.  It's a great class to play.

Sorcerers have dps on par with an assassin, perhaps slightly less though the difference is negligible.   If a sorcerer is prepared, they have shields and other ways to escape, but are extremely squishy.  They are kings of CC with a bunch of tools in their arsenal.

The gimpiest class in the game, imo, are the Spirit Masters.  There are some issues with them that need to be addressed.  Their pets don't fly.  So if you're in the Abyss you will be constantly resummoning your pet.  Pets also don't scale with gear, so the better you get, your pets stay shitty (though they are beasts with certain DP buffs).  Your dots DO NOT STACK with other SMs.  Which is terrible.  Lots of issues, however they are still a unique class with a range of debuffs and other disabling abilities.

Templars and Gladiators are both great classes, Templars are more gear dependent I think though.  Glads have good melee AOE, while templars are hard to kill, and don't kill fast.  They have pulling abilities that help with runners in PVP.  Glads can tank almost everything in the game, while doing a tier lower in DPS than an Assassin if they duel wield.

While many people cringe at such pigeon-hold class design or the fear of the holy trinity, you really don't have to worry much.  There are many things that have been shown that can be done without Templars and Clerics..

[Koyasha]

Das cool. The leveling seemed pretty well paced, so wasn't sure how many here got past the 20 milestone. I've heard healers were the way to go and scouts were largely gimp, but ya never know ingame whose actually been there and alt'ing up vs parroting forum posts

There a good site for Aion that isn't out of date?

Well, I got to 27 in Closed Beta and am 30 in this open beta, on a chanter.  So far I find the pvp interesting and reasonably balanced.  On the rare occasions I run into a fight around my level, it's pretty challenging, I can lose or win.  I haven't fought much in the Abyss (due to lack of other people high enough level to frequent the area) but in both betas I've done a good bit of rifting (traveling to the enemy's home zones and fighting them there).  It's been both fun and interesting.

As you probably expect, levels and gear make a significant difference.  I'm max level for the event, and in some of the best possible gear, and with a level weapon enchanted to +9.  I can stand and win against entire groups of people who I estimate to be between 22 and 26.

If anyone has any specific questions about it and the balance I can try to answer them as best I can.  Most of my knowledge about the game is actually from personal experience - I haven't spent as much time researching as Draegan, for example, so I mostly know only what I've seen and done (and therefore may be utterly unable to answer some questions with any degree of knowledge). 

Do remember though that my answers will be from someone who found EQ to be an excellent game and would probably still play it if it A: hadn't changed so much and B: had any semblance of decently designed pvp, likes open-world pvp with consequences, and likes to kill anything I damn well please (commonly called grinding), not be led by the nose (aka, questing).  People who say things like that there aren't enough quests will find little in common with me, because I have a quest log of quests I outleveled and never bothered to complete because they were useless, or because I didn't feel like killing X amount of monster Y for lazy stationary cockhead Z.  I am perfectly happy when given monsters and pretty scenery to wander about in like a psychotic maniac, killing anything that crosses my path and looks at me funny.

[Morfiend]

While seen as an exploit by some players, jumpshot has been declared working as intended by the developers. It is used to cancel the animation of certain skills that would otherwise leave you immobile for its duration. This is a huge boon to kiting, but requires a lot of practice.
To initiate a jumpshot, use an ability while jumping when you reached the peak of your jump or are already on the downward movement again. This can be practiced without moving, but is more effective to maintain a certain direction.

 

[gryeyes]

WORKING AS INTENDED!

[tmp]

I couldn't fix your brakes so i made your horn louder...

[Venkman]

What exactly is a jumpshot? I (now) know how to initiate it of course Does this basically let you insta-cast? That seems kinda dumb, like they tied the duration of spell casting to the animation sequence rather than some sort of game timer. Not that I'd be surprised in an era of female-avatars-do-it-slower AoC

Seems great for PvE but not as effective for PvP. Except a lot of the PvP videos I've seen have been ground-based, with people flying while others standing. Not sure why that is except for the stamina meter on flight being pretty finite.

Spirit Masters... Their pets don't fly... Pets also don't scale with gear, so the better you get, your pets stay shitty (though they are beasts with certain DP buffs)...Your dots DO NOT STACK with other SMs.

Sounds like an unfinished class, except that somehow this has been fine for Korea since November and China since April?! Didn't see many SMs in Open Beta, though the two I saw (or the one, twice) had a cool looking fire pet.

Thanks for the info on the other classes. Doesn't sound like the typical MMO launch anyway. I'd love to hear what it was like at the end of November 2008 though

If anyone has any specific questions about it and the balance I can try to answer them as best I can. 

Sorcerer vs Gladiator, Templar vs Cleric, SM vs Assassin, two Sorcerers vs a Gladiator and Assassin... go!

[tmp]

What exactly is a jumpshot? I (now) know how to initiate it of course Does this basically let you insta-cast? That seems kinda dumb, like they tied the duration of spell casting to the animation sequence rather than some sort of game timer.

At least for rangers some of the skills have induction/animation to them which forces the character to spend a short while still, which of course allows the enemy to close the distance. By executing such skill in middle of a jump this pause/disadvantage is removed. Of course, the obvious question is if allowing the player to avoid the pause is 'working as intended' then why have it there in the first place. Unless the intention was to force your players to spend their game bunny-hopping.

edit: you can see it in action in this tournament video

[Venkman]

lol, I'd actually like to see where the developers said it's working as intended. Seems like an obvious exploit. Iirc, kiting was an accident of the EQ1 beta period as well, but even that only work(ed) in special circumstances. Something that removes the casting timer from abilities (you mention Ranger but I'd imagine this applies to any casting) just seems like something they really didn't mean to do.

But maybe the impact is minimal. PvE is there to filter players between start and PvP(vE) it seems, so who cares if the grind happens faster? And jumping doesn't do anything for you in the air, so maybe it hasn't really impacted the part of the game they thought most important (flight and PvP).

Or maybe it's that it took them 8 months to realize it and 10 months after launch they don't want to piss off their core players back to L2 

[Kageru]

That PvP video was intensely boring... running around in circles trying to close.

[Draegan]

1. Seems great for PvE but not as effective for PvP. Except a lot of the PvP videos I've seen have been ground-based, with people flying while others standing. Not sure why that is except for the stamina meter on flight being pretty finite.


2. Sounds like an unfinished class, except that somehow this has been fine for Korea since November and China since April?! Didn't see many SMs in Open Beta, though the two I saw (or the one, twice) had a cool looking fire pet.

3. Thanks for the info on the other classes. Doesn't sound like the typical MMO launch anyway. I'd love to hear what it was like at the end of November 2008 though

4. Sorcerer vs Gladiator, Templar vs Cleric, SM vs Assassin, two Sorcerers vs a Gladiator and Assassin... go!

1.  Jumpshot is pretty silly, but it's not hard to do and is pretty awkward.  When you jump and execute the "instant cast" spell you cut the animations like the previous poster said.  However if you have your hand on a movement button (or mouse button) it will play out the animation, so there is still some delay.  It's not perfect.  Not sure why it's there.

2.  They arn't unfinished.  They are still a beast of a class, and one of the best soloing classes in the game.  They have some unique abilities that make them unique, like a flight time debuff which is called crash or something,  they have fears, aoe dots, and some other aoe abiltiies.  They arn't "gimp" in the true sense of the word, just have more issues with them than any other class.  They are still strong and do very well in PVP/PVE.

3.  Nothing has really changed from 1.0 to 1.5.  If you played the beta, that was Nov. 2008.  There have been small tweaks here and there to gear and abilities that have helped balance but no major overhaul.  A lot of content has been added though in between patches.

edit: When I say nothing really has changed, I'm only refering to PVP balance and class changes.  Damage done to other PCs was nerfed I think 10% so everyone does 10% less damage to other players across the board.  There have been item tweaks, cooldowns changed etc etc.  You can read the patch notes if you really want to.  A lot has gone into improving the leveling process, UI and other functions of the game.  

4.  For each matchup I'm assuming equal gear and equal skill.

Glad vs. Sorc:  If the sorc gets the jump and is able to cast at a distance he will have the advantage.  The gladiator still isn't one shot or at a disadvantage if he has anti-CC pots or has certain self buffs when he gets jumped.  The match isn't over right there, but the Sorc gets the advantage and most likely a big one.  If the gladiator gets the jump on the sorc, the sorc is done.  The class is truly a glass cannon.

Templar vs. Cleric:  Who cares?  This fight would probably take an hour.  I have no idea who would win.  Both class are probably evenly matched if geared appropriately.  If the templar is geared for critting he might have the advantage.  Clerics are hard to kill, but so are templars.

SM vs. Assassin:  SMs are very powerful 1v1 if they get the start.  They have fear abilities that they can chain and can dot up the opponent.  Think of warlocks in WOW but with more powerful pets but less powerful DD spells.  If the assassin manages to break the fear (with anti CC pots, that are cheap and everyone can make) and get close to the SM, the SM is dead.  I would probably put the assassin at the advantage in this matchup 1v1 though.

Lol, 2 Sorcs vs. a Glad and Assassin.  What are the circumstances?  If the sorcs get the jump they can CC one and burst down the assassin then mop up the glad.  If the assassin is stealthed, drops in one Sorc and the glad charges in?  Sorcs lose.

A lot is predicated on who has the initial advantage.  If you're PVEing in the Abyss hopefully you are aware that you can get jumped at any time and are always situationally aware.  Most of the time PVP where it isn't ganking or someone getting surprised will be in a group setting.  In group settings, who ever is more coordinated will win depsite group composition unless they have zero healers.

[Draegan]

That PvP video was intensely boring... running around in circles trying to close.

Most 1v1 duels are boring to watch.

[tmp]

Most of them seem like that; stuns+burst when available then kiting while waiting for cooldowns to recharge. Rinse, repeat. Not very surprising though, when any class but the heaviest tank seem to die within few seconds.

There's few other videos from the same poster on youtube, from the same tournament and showing fights between other class combinations.

[Venkman]

Draegen, you are a veritable fount. However, in my matchups questions, I was just shit out of the air just for kicks. Interesting insights though. Particularly on the SM, which sounds like the pet/DD aspect of an EQ1 Magician with the fear/dots of a WoW 'lock.

Only real experience I had was Sorc, which is the essence of glass cannon.

I did see something on Aionsource about Kisks. They look like bind-anywhere consumables. The guide was about being smart about where you create them in PvPvE zones. Are those still in the game? They sound like the kind of thing I'd spend so much time being all clever with that I'd blow through whatever time I had to play that session

Most of them seem like that; stuns+burst when available then kiting while waiting for cooldowns to recharge. Rinse, repeat. Not very surprising though, when any class but the heaviest tank seem to die within few seconds.

Only thing I was somewhat surprised at was how much ground there was in a flying game. I'd rather have seen only flying PvP.

[DLRiley]

I think the whole, flying duration + stun = fall to death. Also the higher you fly the harder it is to target people on the ground. Extreme bunny hopping.

[Draegan]

First, if you are stunned in air, you don't fall.  You are.. stunned.  Clerics have a "Flight Time" heal-over-time they can cast (I forget if it's self only or not) and SMs can reduce that time with a DOT.  I think those are the only ways a character class can reduce or increase flight time outside consumables.  I could be wrong though.

Those kisks are limited and expensive.  They resurrect the bound players only so many times before you go back to your previously bounded obelisk.  They can also be destroyed by your enemy.

They are essential for fortress sieging.  The defenders (I think) resurrect inside the fortress where enemies resurrect back at wherever, or the kisk.

I havn't seen any of this first hand so I'm going by info I've picked up reading about this game here and there.

[Koyasha]

Yes, if you're stunned in the air you don't fall, but if a class can keep you stunned in the air for long enough, your flight meter will expire (it still counts down while in the air).  Having better wings than your opponents is a massive advantage.  I just bought the level 30 wings earlier today, and since then I've used them to my advantage to defeat enemies.  One even fell to her doom because she ran out of flight time when I still had plenty remaining.  The same applies with wind potions - they always have a cooldown that's twice as long as the flight time they replenish, but even an extra 12 seconds can tip the fight.  And during a 1 minute flight timer you can use 2 of the lesser ones, giving you an extra 24 seconds of flight, which allows a third to be used for a total of 36 additional seconds.  Or two greater ones, giving a total of 48 extra seconds of flight, and allowing a third to be used to add another 24 seconds and make it 72 additional flying seconds.  Assuming you time your potions right in order to use all three in one flight.

As to the matchups question, the only one I've got even secondhand experience with is templar vs. cleric where Link has been fighting clerics while I'm either nearby or busy with other targets.  From what I've observed, they are very evenly matched at the moment.  I think in the end it would be a question of who has more potions, if a templar and cleric were stubborn enough to keep fighting each other until one of them dies, and neither of them makes a serious mistake.  Templar healing himself through potions and cleric replenishing mana.  More likely, one or the other will eventually either escape or make a mistake.  The cleric is more likely to die from a mistake than the templar, since the templar's longevity is mostly passive, while the cleric has to stop and heal.  If the cleric lets himself get too low and the templar manages a string of crits, that mistake will give the templar the fight.

Being too clever with your kisk placement can cost you - the other day we were looking for the perfect spot to place our kisk and ran into a group that managed to defeat us before we ever placed it.  But, as time goes on and you learn the game and the landscape, you'll probably memorize good kisk locations if you pay attention.  I suspect that at high levels, kisk costs will be considerably less of an issue.  Already at level 30 I have had no problem affording a couple kisks when I wanted them, and that was spending all my own personal money.  If the cost is split among the people who will be using the kisk, then it's a rather small amount of money per person.

People may die in a matter of seconds at high levels, I don't know since beta's capped at 30, but in my experience, that rarely ever happens unless it's 3-4 people on one target.  Even then, they tend to live long enough that they can be healed if the healer is fast and attentive.  Most of my fights where I don't utterly outmatch my opponents have taken from one to three minutes or even longer.  Aerial flights often require a landing, fight on the ground a while until one side or the other thinks taking to the air will give them the advantage again, then fly once more.  Obviously a ranged class has massive benefit to being able to outfly their opponents, so I expect that to be seriously taken into account in ranged combat strategy.  Healers will also probably make heavy use of flying so they can get out of melee range and heal themselves and others.  Just taking off and flying away, even when the enemy is right on my tail, often buys me enough time to heal without being hit, in the event that I got stupid enough to let myself fall too low on health.

P.S.  Beta patch today and the gameguard update seems to have broken Fyyre's patch, so if gameguard is still screwing you up like it does me, you're out of luck for a bit.  We'll see if I can play again once the servers come up.  Meh.

[Threash]

Is it taking forever to log in for anyone else?

[IainC]

Is it taking forever to log in for anyone else?

Servers are down for a patch. You'll need to download a ~618MB patch before you next log in.

[Threash]

Is it taking forever to log in for anyone else?

Servers are down for a patch. You'll need to download a ~618MB patch before you next log in.

I did not mean right this minute, but when i do log in it takes me forever to get in.

[Venkman]

Open Beta servers are up. GG is a bitch tonight, but I'm in anyway. Haven't messed with anything that removes/spoofs/locks GG, I just sort keep kicking the game til it lets me in