Aion (Open Beta, Launch Day Info too!)

[tmp]

Because grinding is hard! If there wasn't a grind it'd just be WoW and the game would become infested with dirty casuals and WoW players!

Tbh it took me equally long to get to l.20 in WoW on fresh trial that it took me to get to 20 in Aion open beta (few days of semi-casual play) I realize for WoW this is a "lol, you're doing it wrong" sort of approach because people just pay Blizzard double for the xp buff disguised as 'refer a friend' thing, but out of the box and if you don't want to pay extra these two are really simillar when it comes to grind level.

[Threash]

Seriously wtf? i'm leveling faster than any other game i can think off.  Granted i haven't played wow since aoc came out, and i haven't leveled a newb since launch but this doesn't feel like a grind AT ALL.  Are people just bitching for the hell of it? getting to level 20 in a couple weekends of sporadic play seems incredibly fast to me, aren't there only 50 levels total?

[Hindenburg]

TBH, I hit 20 on the Belf zone in the same time I hit...9 in aion.
And seriously, you don't have to compare new mmo's to a 2004 starting zone. You have to compare them to the DK starting zone.

[tmp]

TBH, I hit 20 on the Belf zone in the same time I hit...9 in aion.
And seriously, you don't have to compare new mmo's to a 2004 starting zone. You have to compare them to the DK starting zone.

I'm just saying someone starting WoW character from scratch that isn't starting in zones made after 2004 but rather in these made for "older" races... is going to experience similar levelling speed in both these games. And they'll have this experience today, not in 2004.

[Senses]

Plus, wow's leveling speed has 0 to do with what the normal leveling speed should be.  Their leveling speed is designed around the fact that they have been in bussiness 4 years and know that their customers don't want to spend any more time than neccessary anymore in old crappy outdated zones.  Comparison's are pointless.  Either you enjoy your time leveling or you don't, if its the latter, its a grind.

[Draegan]

Plus, wow's leveling speed has 0 to do with what the normal leveling speed should be.  Their leveling speed is designed around the fact that they have been in bussiness 4 years and know that their customers don't want to spend any more time than neccessary anymore in old crappy outdated zones.  Comparison's are pointless.  Either you enjoy your time leveling or you don't, if its the latter, its a grind.

This.
You can't compare leveling speeds of outdated content.  They were increased, not because it took to long to level, but because they wanted people to level much faster to get with everyone else playing the game since half the zones are empty.

[schild]

I just want to say that I can't even understand why WoW is brought up in the Aion thread. I don't even like WoW but I can unbiasedly say WoW is the better game and Aion is not a good game. I wanted to like WoW and I wanted Aion to be good. I got neither. I'm still not sure of what any of you see in Aion.

Also, Aion's leveling is slow as hell compared to AoC, the first two tiers of WAR, and WoW. So let's not go down that route for comparison.

[Draegan]

I can get to level 10 in 2-3 hours or so in Aion.  What is the length of time in WAR or AOC?

Also you hate DIKU games. 

[Koyasha]

Because grinding is hard! If there wasn't a grind it'd just be WoW and the game would become infested with dirty casuals and WoW players!

Seriously, that's the answer you get if you dare question the grind in the game; its tantamount to heresy. The grind is a bitch; at 27 now on my Cleric and its a pain to level solo. If my wtfdie! skill doesn't activate it can take me a minute or two to kill a mob. The pacing needs adjustment but too many playing it have their hearts set on embracing the grind as rapture.

Aion has reminded me of one thing.  Quests are fucking annoying and get in my way more often than not.  I don't really want to be told 'go here do this' all the time and kill only what I'm told to kill.  WoW and other similar games have trained us to do that, but the simple realization I took away from the last few days is that killing whatever I damn well please without worrying that I'm not getting quest exp for it is a lot more fun than being led by the nose to each and every mob I'm supposed to kill, and avoid everything else.

What do I want out of quests, personally?  Some story and significance to the areas, and just enough gear rewards to make sure that I'm not dependent entirely on luck to keep my equipment at a reasonable level for the area.  Beyond that, not only do I not need leading-by-the-nose, but I feel like it's actively irritating me.  Collecting bear asses is no longer fun.  Killing bears because they're big and mean is good enough.

[Hindenburg]

Aion has reminded me of one thing.  Quests are fucking annoying and get in my way more often than not.  I don't really want to be told 'go here do this' all the time and kill only what I'm told to kill.  WoW and other similar games have trained us to do that, but the simple realization I took away from the last few days is that killing whatever I damn well please without worrying that I'm not getting quest exp for it is a lot more fun than being led by the nose to each and every mob I'm supposed to kill, and avoid everything else.

You can hit 10 in 1:30-2 hours in AoC.
Of course, since we were comparing 20... 5-6 hours.

Don't know how many it takes to hit 20 in WAR, couldn't stomach it past 14, which took 10.

[Threash]

You are also comparing a game with 80 levels to one with 50.  Of course each level is going to be faster in a game with a ton more levels.

[Hindenburg]

This discussion is becoming even more retarded fast.

[schild]

I can get to level 10 in 2-3 hours or so in Aion.  What is the length of time in WAR or AOC?

Also you hate DIKU games.  

No, I hate poorly designed games.

I have now leveled 7 characters past 40 in Age of Conan.

Level 10? Maybe an hour, if that. Level 6? 20 minutes, TOPS.

[ghost]

But this one goes to 11.........

[Nissl]

What do I want out of quests, personally?  Some story and significance to the areas, and just enough gear rewards to make sure that I'm not dependent entirely on luck to keep my equipment at a reasonable level for the area.  Beyond that, not only do I not need leading-by-the-nose, but I feel like it's actively irritating me.

I like having enough quests that you always have some small excuse for what you're doing if you want it, which Aion definitely does not have in the 20's. On the other hand, I really dislike the way quests were handled in say LOTRO, where quest XP is so substantial relative to mob XP that you *must* quest and any extra mobs you feel like killing because you're having fun are just slowing you down. It's the ultimate version of putting the player on rails.

The one "regressive" thing I will admit I kind of like in this game is that the death penalty is boosted a bit. Not anywhere close to EQ levels, but more than recent games and enough that you really don't want to die. Adds a little extra tension, and so far in my groups it seems to be enforcing a higher standard of play. People are apologizing for mistakes and really trying to figure out mechanics. Although that may just be the beta crowd.

[Senses]

I can get to level 10 in 2-3 hours or so in Aion.  What is the length of time in WAR or AOC?

Also you hate DIKU games.  

No, I hate poorly designed games.

I have now leveled 7 characters past 40 in Age of Conan.

Level 10? Maybe an hour, if that. Level 6? 20 minutes, TOPS.

And in 2 years you'll probably be able to jump in and get 7 characters past 40 in Aion...You want to have leveling speed discussions thats fine but your talking like AoC wasn't a steaming piece of shit till like 3 weeks ago.  

But more importantly, why does every discussion become so black and white, so polarizing...Everything is either an epic failure or a stunning success, which is funny since there is roughly 1 success and most people will still call it an epic failure.   Is it just possible we can discuss these games in more shades of grey like, hey this is shiny and new, or hey, this is cool because for 50 bucks I'm going to have something to do for 2 months.  Does every game have to basically replicate the moon landing just to get a thumbs up?

[Hawkbit]

I'm done.  I had really high hopes for this game but I think I've moved past MMOs in general because this is some unfun bullshit to me.  Off tomorrow to shift my $5 preorder onto something else. 

1.  It's all kill quests.  This became especially apparent when I hit Asmodian T2 and they had me killing or collecting everything around a lake.  For well over an hour I did kill quests.  There's a quest for every mob type there; just kill 10 and come back.  Can't we move on from this and just give me the XP?  It's a pure waste of time. 

2.  Speaking of a pure waste of time, why the grind?  There's nothing hardcore about wacking foozles for 100 more hours than the next guy.  It added nothing positive to my experience and I fail to see how it makes one player better than another. 

3.  At level 12 I've got nine different types of consumables, the last four of which I never bothered to see what they do.  It's too much and I'm sure there's lots more types.  I'd spend more time micromanaging hotbuttons for consumables than I would playing the damn game. 

4.  Love the artwork, love the lore.  Where's the damn storyline in the game then?  Ultimately, there's nothing making me care about the characters or the world.  What's left?  Well...

5.  The PvP!!  That's what's left.  But it starts at lvl 25, so I never got to see it because it takes entirely too long to get there.  Not to mention rolling an alt up to see how a different class plays. 

Look, at the end of it all, I want to open world/objective PvP.  I want something deeper than Counterstrike but not at the expense of investing 25+ hours of my life for no discernible purpose other than getting to a "level" that I can start at.  The initial time investment is not worth it to me.  It's really sad that NCSoft doesn't see how immensely successful Guild Wars was in getting people into the PvP fast.  I realize GW and Aion are two different types of games, but they had to learn *something*, right?  Or not. 

Good luck to all who play, but this is not my bag of chips. 

[tmp]

It's really sad that NCSoft doesn't see how immensely successful Guild Wars was in getting people into the PvP fast.  I realize GW and Aion are two different types of games, but they had to learn *something*, right?  Or not.

Seeing they're the publisher of both these games perhaps their view of immensely successful differs. There's otherwise little reason why they'd choose to focus on this remake of Lineage instead.

[Morfiend]

I was talking to a friend of mine, and I was trying to explain to him how I felt about Aion gameplay. The best way I could describe it was like this:

Aion would be the most polished, advanced game ever released, if WoW had never happened. It feels like they took everything from every MMO before WoW and improved on that. They learned nothing from WoW.

It seems to me that WoW has taught us that people like very fast leveling and minimal travel times and no downtime. Aion has learned non of this.

I am not canceling my preorder, but I have a feeling I wont be sticking with the game very long, there are just to many little "WTF you did what?" type design flaws. Like no mob tapping (being able to kill steal). Horrible class progression (Hello assassin and ranger). Bad balance at low levels. Crap like that.

The rumor mill has it that a lot of this is changed in 1.5 patch that we will be launching with, and we are currently on 1.0. I dont know why they dont have the NA beta people playing 1.4 (1.3?) that is like for the asian servers. But....

MIRACLE PATCH INCOMING!!

[Segoris]

Like no mob tapping (being able to kill steal). Horrible class progression (Hello assassin and ranger). Bad balance at low levels. Crap like that.

The rumor mill has it that a lot of this is changed in 1.5 patch that we will be launching with, and we are currently on 1.0. I dont know why they dont have the NA beta people playing 1.4 (1.3?) that is like for the asian servers. But....

I honestly prefer the no mob tapping. I was so sick of AE groups tapping everything and stealing camps, or assholes in general tapping mobs the split second before a group I'm in pulls it and ends up doing the work for someone else. I honestly have less problems with people stealing a mob I'm already attacking compared to people just tagging mobs and hogging areas. As for the "miracle patch," yeah it does seem to cure a shitload of things, but there will still be things that I, and many others, don't like. That's how it goes though, can't please them all. Adding a lot of quests (shitloads for Asmo to help make up their lack of quests in comparison to Elyos) and rested xp will be good enough for me for the most part though as I'm pretty happy with most of this game.

Just to add, small group/duo PVP has just been fun as hell and it made me wish I was actually running fraps for moments of overcoming 2:1 or worse odds. Without even hitting the Abyss I'm almost rank 6 since pvp started around 19, but it was just going to the enemy equal level area and doing some roaming fights. Also, Templars were a surprise as to how difficult they are to fight against, and gives me a little faith that they may have done good things with the main tank class for pvp. It will be interesting to see them at max level.

[Morfiend]

Oh yeah I wanted to add, did anyone notice that the fucking wildlife in this AionLand is some of the most hardcore stuff ever?

I can be a huge demon with wings, plate armor, and a 15ft long polearm, and a fucking bunny can take me out no problem. Talk about making the player feel weak and non epic. Sheesh.

Aion, getting killed by Space Flamingos.

[Tale]

Foot-long Aion CE "coming soon" boxes in EB Games in suburban Sydney, Australia. This is going to launch big.

[amiable]

Oh yeah I wanted to add, did anyone notice that the fucking wildlife in this AionLand is some of the most hardcore stuff ever?

I can be a huge demon with wings, plate armor, and a 15ft long polearm, and a fucking bunny can take me out no problem. Talk about making the player feel weak and non epic. Sheesh.

Aion, getting killed by Space Flamingos.

Yeah this is very annoying.  For fucks sake it takes me almost 30 seconds to kill a god-damn gecko.  And if I get 2 geckos on me I have to run.

I wish they had taken a cue from WAR and introduced PvP leveling from level 1.  I think I would like the game more if I actually got to PvP.  (Since I don't have the entire weekend to grind from dawn to dusk I was only able to get a character up to level 16.)

[Draegan]

I can get to level 10 in 2-3 hours or so in Aion.  What is the length of time in WAR or AOC?

Also you hate DIKU games.  

No, I hate poorly designed games.

I have now leveled 7 characters past 40 in Age of Conan.

Level 10? Maybe an hour, if that. Level 6? 20 minutes, TOPS.

I don't see your poor design though.  It's just like any other DIKU.  Do you just not like the leveling speed?  I tend to hate the slow leveling speed, but this game feels about right.

[DLRiley]

This is starting to look like my type of discussion. I knew I should have waited till launch to start the bashing.

To say "It's just like any other DIKU." as an reason why you don't see poor design is   .

[Modern Angel]

Like no mob tapping (being able to kill steal).

Gamebreaker. Thanks for pointing this out.

[Triforcer]

Like no mob tapping (being able to kill steal).

Gamebreaker. Thanks for pointing this out.

Oh, cmon.  I hate to go all Vanguardish, but have we really reached the point where we can't handle ANYTHING that makes the game a bit more exciting?  Heck, in PvP MMOs, I want mob trains to come back.

[amiable]

Oh, cmon.  I hate to go all Vanguardish, but have we really reached the point where we can't handle ANYTHING that makes the game a bit more exciting?  Heck, in PvP MMOs, I want mob trains to come back.

Serious question:  How does it add in anyway to the gameplay to have some griefing douchebag steal my kills?  Most likely this person will be on my side and I won't be able to do anything about it (at least from a PvP standpoint).  

These things were put in the game for a reason, that reason being that there are a subset of players who join a game solely to ruin other peoples fun.  

Another example of   design:  They have a newbie quest in the asmodean city that sends your level 10  into the arena to talk to a quest NPC they cleverly placed inside of the arena.  There were already level 20+ folk camping the entrance when I went to do the quest.

[DLRiley]

That is truly  . Good things this game was tested in the mean streets of south korea.

[Xanthippe]

For me, the distance between levels doesn't bother me.  It's the fact that I feel like I'm dismantling a brick wall, brick by brick when I fight a mob.

The pace of combat is too slow.  Mobs (and players, I suppose) have too many hit points, or the attacks don't take enough off at a time.

I'd rather kill 3 mobs in the time it takes to kill one for the same amount of experience, especially if I have to sit in between to rest.

The difference in 1 level is really something too.  My highest is an 18 templar.  If I attack a mob one level higher, I end up with half my health.  I can fight 2 or 3 my own level before I have to somehow regen (either potion, or powder/herb thing or something).

Duoing, on the other hand, is smooth and quick.  This is not what I'd call a solo-friendly game, though.  The pace is just too snoozy.

[Modern Angel]

You know what would be exciting? AI that actually works. Or maybe no levels. Or maybe not bastard child of Lineage 2 and WoW with a new coat of paint.

Nothing and I mean nothing is added by free for all mob stealing. It's not exciting or challenging; it's fucking stupid. The only people who think "Sweet! Disallowing mob tagging makes this game EXCITING!" are people who don't know what actual excitement is. Seriously, the only world where that's exciting is one in which Dikus are the only games that have ever existed and ever will exist.

I'm actually pretty neutral on this game but seriously, what the fuck? It's like going into a fucked up wormhole where everything that we all hated about MMOs are suddenly fucking features while WoW's intensely accessible endgame is too hardcore. And the only thing I will take unhealthy pleasure in is how many of you are going to join the hate carousel one last time three months after release.

[Hawkbit]

Oh, cmon.  I hate to go all Vanguardish, but have we really reached the point where we can't handle ANYTHING that makes the game a bit more exciting?  Heck, in PvP MMOs, I want mob trains to come back.

I posted yesterday about my experience with mob tapping.  As a lvl 11 Templar, I would tap the mob and start the 20-30 second process of killing it.  Along comes a lvl 7 or 8 Scout and does more damage in a few seconds than I can ramp up in my 20+ on it, so he gets the kill and loot rights.  It happened so frequently I logged and quit for half the day.  It's not fun to spend over an hour trying to kill mobs for a quest and having someone get the rights to it.  

That said, the answer to that problem is to move to a higher channel where there's less people and less competition for mobs.  I learned that *after* my ragequit.

I still don't think I'm going to pick this up at launch because it doesn't get me into the PvP fast enough.  

[amiable]

That is truly  . Good things this game was tested in the mean streets of south korea.

It's funny that you mention this, because I have wondered why people on Aionsource keep bringing this point up.  All I can gather is that Koreans enjoy boring, repetitive poorly designed gameplay and it is some sort of veiled insult at their culture.

[schild]

All I can gather is that Koreans enjoy boring, repetitive poorly designed gameplay and it is some sort of veiled insult at their culture.

I don't think it's veiled at all. Nearly every Korean game I've ever played from free MMOG to AAA MMOG to Console game to portable game has been a steaming pile of trash. Their "big" thing from a few years back - Magna Carta - was one of the worst RPGs ever made. Hell, they couldn't even make a 16-bit-era JRPG on the iPhone correctly.

[Hindenburg]

I don't think it's veiled at all. Nearly every Korean game I've ever played from free MMOG to AAA MMOG to Console game to portable game has been a steaming pile of trash. Their "big" thing from a few years back - Magna Carta - was one of the worst RPGs ever made. Hell, they couldn't even make a 16-bit-era JRPG on the iPhone correctly.

The Kingdom Under Fire titles in the Xbox 1 were nothing short of terrific, but yeah, koreans usually = balls.