WOW PvP (first impressions)

[Fargull]

Okay,

I am playing on Spinebreaker and have had a few (count on one hand) PvP rumblings.  Most of the time I have been on the lower level spectrum of the battle.  I have yet to die, but then I am probably not a primary target as I am playing a troll warrior.

I have helped take down a level 26 at 17th.  That was the largest level discrepency that I know of for a fact, and the highest member of the horde in that fight was 21st.  The interesting thing is that I noticed no reduction on my hits, nor on damage done.  The enemy was a gnome warlock.  I never even glanced at his level, just attacked.  Was told later of his level by a groupmate of mine.

From word of mouth and what I can tell, it appears that your chance to hit with a weapon is directly dependant on your skill with the weapon.  The amount of damage you do depends on your skill with the weapon.  The ability to dodge, block, ect depends on the opponent's skill in those areas and the ability to absorb damage depends on their equipment.  At no point does being 20 levels lower than the opponent affect my ability to hit or damage the opponent (except when their skill check fires off), nor does my damage get reduced (except from the opponents spells/armor).  The nice thing about this, is that it seems directly opposed to what EQ/DAoC has presented in the PvP arena.

Am I wrong in thinking this is a good thing for adding PvP into a level based mmog?

[WindupAtheist]

Sounds good to me.

"I am X levels above you, therefore I am a GOD and that large axe you're carrying just bounces off my mighty flesh!" is just silly.

[Zetor]

Verily.

I play on Bleeding Hollow and so far, taking on uber opponents wasn't all that hard. (Except for rogues, they jump you and then you die. I started dropping traps randomly whenever I visit Ashenvale. So much h8.) In fact, it's been a bit of a pain when my 32 warrior couldn't touch a lowly 22 priest who kept running away and chain-fearing me... otoh my most memorable fight was pwn'ing a pair of level27 rogues as a level21 hunter while grouped with another level21 hunter.

Which brings me to my biggest fear about WoW PvP, the Zek-style ganktastic ruleset. Blizzard said they won't evar implement the honor system, and this has already led to multiple groups of 40+ horde (or alliance) camping graveyards etcetera. I shudder to think what'll happen when the uberguilds hit 60 and get bored...


-- Z.
hoping this post won't summon HRose

[Trippy]

Which brings me to my biggest fear about WoW PvP, the Zek-style ganktastic ruleset. Blizzard said they won't evar implement the honor system, and this has already led to multiple groups of 40+ horde (or alliance) camping graveyards etcetera. I shudder to think what'll happen when the uberguilds hit 60 and get bored...

They still plan on implementing their honor system, they just changed their mind on reducing honor for those that kill lower level players.

[Threash]

From word of mouth and what I can tell, it appears that your chance to hit with a weapon is directly dependant on your skill with the weapon.  The amount of damage you do depends on your skill with the weapon.  The ability to dodge, block, ect depends on the opponent's skill in those areas and the ability to absorb damage depends on their equipment.  At no point does being 20 levels lower than the opponent affect my ability to hit or damage the opponent (except when their skill check fires off), nor does my damage get reduced (except from the opponents spells/armor).  The nice thing about this, is that it seems directly opposed to what EQ/DAoC has presented in the PvP arena.

Actually thats wrong, your chance to hit depends on your skill with that weapon vs the defense skill of the target.  A warrior won't have much trouble hitting a mage class a few levels above him, but you'd be whiffing like mad if that had been anything but a mage class.  Defense and weapon skills are entirely based on level, and minorly affected by stats like strenght and agility so actually level is the biggest factor in your ability to hit another player.  Your chance to crit/dodge/parry/block also goes down or up relative to level (the number displayed is for an equal level player or mob) so higher level melees would have hit you alot more often, crited alot more and basically tore you to pieces.

[Nebu]

Real PvP will begin after there are 100+ level 60's representing both factions.  They will be min-maxed in skills and decked out in the best uber loot available in game thanks to the help of whatever guild they happen to be in.  

I'm guessing you'll start to get an idea of what pvp is really like in a couple more weeks.  Since my eyes bleed every time I get near the Blizzard boards, I'd be interested in an update then.  I predict it will be a disaster early and am more watching to see what Blizzard does to balance things without killing the PvE game.

[sinij]

I don't like what I'm seeing so far in PvP - it seems a lot about fearing, stuning and sheeping your oppoents.  In all group fights so far I spent more time not being able to control my character than actually doing anything.

[Threash]

I don't like what I'm seeing so far in PvP - it seems a lot about fearing, stuning and sheeping your oppoents.  In all group fights so far I spent more time not being able to control my character than actually doing anything.

Yup its either insta death via rogue or death by CC.  This is not a pvp game.

[ajax34i]

Well, without CC it's gonna be instadeath by something.  Not just rogues, probably any melee class will completely obliterate any caster class, so why would anyone play a caster?  PvP'ers don't follow the "aggro/hate management" rules built into PvE that a lot of classes completely rely on in order to be viable.  Like all the pet-based classes.

[Mesozoic]

We'll find out soon enough.  There are already plenty of 40+ running around, at least on Argent Dawn.

I ran into a high-level Dwarf Pally in Undercity last night.  Dunno how he got past the guards, but a mage and I tagteamed him down in a nice fight that lasted about 30 secs.  (This was using my 13 Orc Hunter)  Good fun.  Just glad I'm not on a PvP server.

[Mesozoic]

Not just rogues, probably any melee class will completely obliterate any caster class, so why would anyone play a caster? PvP'ers don't follow the "aggro/hate management" rules built into PvE that a lot of classes completely rely on in order to be viable.

Conversely, remember that in PvE melee'ers count on the fact that they are always faster than the mobs, and that mobs cannot immediately sense when they are at a disadvantage and run away.

[trias_e]

Melee classes seem to be very easy for my mage.  Just pop a healing potion to survive the initial onslought, frost nova, blink, poly, drink/eat, kite and kill.

I can even kill paladins alright, as I realized that when you poly someone they don't regen mana.  So we both burn our mana bars, at which point I would normally lose, but then I sheep him again and drink/evoc, after which I should win.

There needs to be some CC for casters to have a chance of not getting slaughtered by melees (and if WoW wants to use the usual rock paper scissors approach then casters should be at an advantage vs. warrior/paladin and a disadvantage vs. hunter/rogue).  But I think poly, fear, sap, all are overpowered at the moment.  They need to tone them all down somewhat.  I think a better ideas is having an immunity timer after the first cast, so I can't keep someone in PvP poly'd for so long.  Also the duration itself is too long and random.  I think it should be a sure thing for 15 seconds rather than a 5-40 second deal.

Yes I'm asking for a nerf on myself, but I'm not insane like most MMORPG players and actually try to look at things from others points of view.  Mages should get a few new spells post 30 anyways, in compensation for a sheep nerf.

[ajax34i]

Will resist gear change the balance towards the melee's?  Not sure how much of it is in game now vs. 3 months from now when everyone's had a chance to get some of the higher drops/rewards...

[Mesozoic]

Wooo, just got done with a big fight on Argent Dawn.  Alliance came in numbers (around 40 or so) to try to take Xroads.  They stopped to buff and /pvp about 400 yards out, so thats where the throw-down happened.  I'm proud to say as a lowly 13 Hunter that I only died twice, and the second time was right after a rez so I'll call that 1.5.   I was able to land lots of arrows, although with a noticably higher miss rate owing to my low level.  I got Frost Nova'd once but that just meant I had to switch to arrows.  I didn't see a lot of sheep or other real CC issues, but it was only one raid and I was really just concentrating on staying alive.  In the end the Horde won out from sheer numbers, as defenders were able to respawn closer and the attackers opted to use the spirit healer rather than go back.

I can see why people like hunters in PvP.  Its not that they are necessarily uber, but they can always do something, whether from range or in melee.  Funfun.

[Riggswolfe]

I can even kill paladins alright, as I realized that when you poly someone they don't regen mana.  So we both burn our mana bars, at which point I would normally lose, but then I sheep him again and drink/evoc, after which I should win.
.

You should post this on the official boards. So many PvPers whine that Pallys are impossible to kill. All it takes is a smart player like most other classes.

[MrHat]

I can even kill paladins alright, as I realized that when you poly someone they don't regen mana.  So we both burn our mana bars, at which point I would normally lose, but then I sheep him again and drink/evoc, after which I should win.
.

You should post this on the official boards. So many PvPers whine that Pallys are impossible to kill. All it takes is a smart player like most other classes.

I've never really had the problem with pally's that most others talk about.  As a combat rogue, I generally get to disarm them a couple of times.  When they get to about a third health, I hit my five point kidney shot (5s stun) pop a thistle tea (100 energy) and sinister strike them to death.

[Riggswolfe]

PvP whining about nerfing classes is one of my biggest reasons to dislike PvPers. So many of them say its about a challenge or something, but really, it's all about dick waving. It gets really old.

[chinslim]

Right now, I would say WoW PvP is merely about levels and numbers.  There may be no rewards as of yet, but the PvP itself is what it's all about.  I'm not worried about the endgame, because the leveling has been a blast - questing and discovering new zones(the various zones and environments are the best thing IMO)...and running into the other side unexpectantly.  The quests somewhat put you on equal footing in PvP because Horde and Alliance quest levels tend to be the same in the contested areas.

Combat mechanics...PvP right now tends to be a chaotic madhouse.  The kind of madhouse everyone finds fun.  I'm sure this will change when more efficient gank groups form that will have CC and steamrolling down to an artform.  Levels rule for now, but that should even out in a month.

[Samprimary]

Alliance and Horde clash near daily in huge 30-40+ Alliance raids targeting the Barrens. So far, it has yet to be un-fun.

The most important subject is power balance and coordinated charges - smaller groups will feint forward and then back into larger groups, tempting the unwary. Both parties are learning very well how to maximize the benefit of a rout.

I'm not even remotely as high as the Supar Catass Guilds who organize these things, but I'm routinely leading charges against their front lines. If the server forum is any indication, both sides are doing it for fun. and we do have a lot of fun doing it.

So far?

Anyway, at this point I could write a very long, detailed post describing PvP shaman technique. The raids never get old.

[HaemishM]

I finally got into some PVP this weekend on Earthen Ring. The first was a group of Alliance that ran from Ratchet into Northwatch Hold while I and another warrior were doing quests there. I joined up with some other Horde who'd been following the Alliance and we slaughtered them. Probably 3-4 Horde and about 6-7 Alliance folks. I died, but had fun.

Saturday night, a huge group of Alliance came into the Barrens, and since I was around, I got in on it. My computer froze hard trying to load all the textures in. I did manage to get some fighting in once everything had loaded, but man that slide show was annoying. Once I got in it, it was fun until I died. Then, rather than try to get my body in the midst of an assload of Alliance, I ressed at the spirit healer. Yes, I took the 25% durability hit to my items, which I thought was not in there anymore. It is. Then I had to return to combat while in res sickness. After dying again, I said fuck it and moved on to quests.

I have found a startling number of folks in Ashenvale that just will not participate in PVP.

[MrHat]

I have found a startling number of folks in Ashenvale that just will not participate in PVP.

That's the main reason I went to the PvP servers.  I like the idea of contested zones.  Also, it bothered me to no end not being able to kill that dancing night elf who was taunting me.

[Mesozoic]

How can you be insulted by someone without the balls to go pvp+?  Such a small price to pay for the ability to complete quests without getting run over by the catass wagon.

[MrHat]

How can you be insulted by someone without the balls to go pvp+?  Such a small price to pay for the ability to complete quests without getting run over by the catass wagon.

I just really don't like elves...And his name was "Legolaz"....

[Morfiend]

The PVP server really are not the gank fests you guys seem to think they are. Hell, I run apon alliance, or get run apon by alliance while questing, and I just consider it andother part of the quest is to kill or avoide them.

My guild also does some cool stuff, like: On the PVP servers Hillsbrad is a hotbed of action. With lvl 22-30 horde going to quest and lvl 28-36 allaince going to quest. I think you guys can see the problems here. So I lead a small raid group of about 15 to 20 of my guild mates and we just patrolled Hillsbrad for about 2 hours, sweeping the alliance back, and keeping the questing areas free for our fellow horde. It was really fun, and many people told us that they really appreciated it.

[HaemishM]

Hey, I would be the ganker in the situations I've run into in Ashenvale. There were a number of my level or less soloing Alliance folk I've run across there when we were both solo and I'd have loved the chance to kill them. BUT NOOOOOOOOO......

[sinij]

I spent lot of time PvPing and here what I don't like so far:

1) Fear - warlock's fear works too well, you can chain it and use on multiple people at one. If you are anywhere near spawn or creeps (and that just anywhere you would go) chances are very high that during fear you will pick some agro. Fear just need to be fixed, its outright broken.

2) Sheeping and Saping -they are a lot like limited fear, saving grace is that you can only do them to one target at a time and damage breaks it.

3) Mind Control - effectivly locks you out of your machine for VERY long duration. If priest gets this off on you while you are alone you are done for regardless of class or build. Mind Control allows priest to do nasty thing to you - from walking you into the middle of monster camp to drowining you.

4) Second lives - warlocks with soul shard ressurection, paladins with multiple invulrnabilities that let them heal. A lot of classes have multiple lives so you will have to kill them more than once per fight.

5) Maxed out chars camping lowbie contested areas  - only problem on PvP servers but you will have few level 60 idiots camping level 20 contested territory making it very hard on lowbies. I don't think anybody should be able to attack opponent more than 20 levels below them.

[HaemishM]

I died to a Night Elf hunter last night. He came into the Barrens with a mob trailing behind him, attacking him. His name was yellow, so he was obviously "trolling" for PVP. Since the mob was attacking him, I figured I'd try him out, even though he as listed as a ?? level.

Yeah, he gave me the beatdown. Quickly. Still, I made the choice to attack, whereas I could have just left him alone. But come on, he was a night elf. Death on GP.

[sinij]

For PvP - you can compete within 3 levels of your own, anything more and you are asking for trouble. You can team-up and attack somebody up to 5 levels above you with a single groupmate. Group of 4 can take somebody of up to 10 levels above them but will loose somebody in a fight. These figures may warry depending on class, gear and PvP expirience of all involved parties.

[Viin]

1) Fear - warlock's fear works too well, you can chain it and use on multiple people at one. If you are anywhere near spawn or creeps (and that just anywhere you would go) chances are very high that during fear you will pick some agro. Fear just need to be fixed, its outright broken.

Actually, you can only Fear one person at a time.  That said, I think the timer is too long and should probably have a way to break out of it (like rolling dice, see below). http://www.thottbot.com/?k=799

3) Mind Control - effectivly locks you out of your machine for VERY long duration. If priest gets this off on you while you are alone you are done for regardless of class or build. Mind Control allows priest to do nasty thing to you - from walking you into the middle of monster camp to drowining you.

I haven't been victim to this yet, but it sounds annoying. Maybe if there was a way to break out of it early.. bring up that dice roll window and you can keep rolling dice until you break it or it times out.

4) Second lives - warlocks with soul shard ressurection, paladins with multiple invulrnabilities that let them heal. A lot of classes have multiple lives so you will have to kill them more than once per fight.

People are already/still whining about paladins, they'll have issues later. As for the Warlock soul shard, you only have 30 seconds to use it. So if you don't want them to come back, camp their corpse for 30 seconds or kill them right when they come back - they have low health to begin with and won't have time to call a minion.

5) Maxed out chars camping lowbie contested areas  - only problem on PvP servers but you will have few level 60 idiots camping level 20 contested territory making it very hard on lowbies. I don't think anybody should be able to attack opponent more than 20 levels below them.

Yah it would be nice if some kind of restrictions were in place but that'd be hard to balance too. Better yet, you should get exp for killing players at or above your level - might entice some people to patrol the newbie areas.

[MrHat]

My only gripe about fear is that it doesn't get broken w/ damage.  That's just   stupid.

[chinslim]

Here's some of things I like about WoW PvP:  I think later on, when more people figure out how to fight, the current combat mechanics allows for some really sneaky stuff.  Some examples: Hunters feigning mark(casting mark on one target, the group actually attacking another)...priests protecting PW:Shield from being immediately dispelled by casting something like Shadow resistance buff right after.  The real power of paladins, BTW, is their ability to dispel friendly targets of negative effects.  This has huge repercussions when it comes to mages polymorphing priests for both sides and will probably affect optimal group makeups for the Horde.

[ajax34i]

A lot of people gripe about fear on the official boards too, but honestly how would that warlock survive?  Pet is worthless in PvP.  Also (haven't experienced it or played a warlock myself so I'll repeat what people say) shadow resistance, potions, anti-fear spells, and I hear a slew of ways to interrupt/stun/prevent them from casting that spell do work with various degrees of success.

[MrHat]

A lot of people gripe about fear on the official boards too, but honestly how would that warlock survive?  Pet is worthless in PvP.  Also (haven't experienced it or played a warlock myself so I'll repeat what people say) shadow resistance, potions, anti-fear spells, and I hear a slew of ways to interrupt/stun/prevent them from casting that spell do work with various degrees of success.

I absolutely agree. Warlock seem to be worthless in 1v1 pvp.  But they wtfpwn in a group.

At least let melee damage break fear.

[sinij]

I don't play warlock myself but more then once I was feared along with mobs and other players attacking warlock - regardless of how fear spell works it is possible to have more than one target feared almost instantly.

[Samprimary]

While I would be tempted to whine about fear, there's really no reason to beat down on the Warlock any more than is absolutely needed.

They have low usefulness in PvP and are sorely behind the dueling curve. As in, you duel them with fishing rods and win.