Bad Groups

[Ironwood]

AoE tanking and LFG Tool has turned groups into a big flaming mass of retardery, 95% of the time.

I hope to hell the instances in Cataclysm are as punishing as they used to be and they don't back down on it.  DPS needs to learn how to play again.  Last night I got booted from a group because I just sat down after the 4th trash pack and refused to play anymore.

Get into the group, get screaming already about 'BUFFS'.  BUFFS, BOK, KINGS PLSSSSS within a second of me zoning.  This annoys me as much as the RESS people (bonus points for RESS DURING the fight.)  Then I get the Rogue screaming 'BIG PULLS'.  Never mind the fact that his dps is under 200.  The warrior says MORE, I'M AOE.  I know he is, of course, since he's charging and whirlwinding before the pull and then I'm supposed to work getting them off him.  In fact, they're ALL doing the pre-pull bullshit and I'm sick of it by the second group.  Then I get Mr Sarcasm saying 'No, take your time, we wouldn't want to get it wrong.'  Alas, what is actually wisdom in this case is sarcasm because he's a douchebag.  At this point I'm pulling two groups at a time due to demand and, frankly, they just can't organise a piss up in a brewery.  They're Awful.

I watch the Fury warrior charge the boss before I even have any mana and at that point I just sit the fight out.  They beat him, losing two, and boot me.  I'm happy that they did so.

I want to go into a Cataclysm instance and watch my 3 retarded DPS die straightaway.  I don't care if it's a wipe or if I die repeatedly or I end up broke because of repair costs.  These fucking idiots need to learn.

[apocrypha]

These fucking idiots need to learn.

I agree, but there's a conundrum here though.

What's WoW's strength? The reason it's got 11m subs? It's accessibility. These fucking idiots *aren't* going to learn for a long, long time. They're going to go into Cata random dungeons full of expectations built up by overgearing WOTLK heroics for a year.

It'll go in one of two ways. Either Blizzard will nerf the crap out of dungeons very quickly, or dungeon running will become the preserve of guild groups and high-entry-requirement realm pugs only. I honestly don't think that the majority of the current playerbase will be able to adjust to the tougher instances in a reasonable time frame.

I could be wrong, I often am about these things, but I suspect the random dungeon finder is going to become rarely used for 2-3 months after the launch of Cata, by which point people will be outgearing the content again and it'll be back to the current situation.

[Merusk]

I don't think you're wrong.  There's been a lot of changes announced for Cata that have me thinking "fuck that shit, it's not worth buying" and I'm a reforming addict.  I imagine a good portion of that 11mil will say the same thing once they run headfirst into it all. 

[Ironwood]

It'll go in one of two ways. Either Blizzard will nerf the crap out of dungeons very quickly, or dungeon running will become the preserve of guild groups and high-entry-requirement realm pugs only. I honestly don't think that the majority of the current playerbase will be able to adjust to the tougher instances in a reasonable time frame.

I doubt that.  That's two polar extremes.  What's more likely is that fucking idiots will have to adapt and actually listen.

And 'lo, there will be light once again in the world.

[Selby]

I went a'raidin' last night with a new guild.  First question was "can you DPS?" to which my response was "I'm better geared than 90% of the people here, I specifically tank on this character, and you want me to DPS?"  That set aside, they tell me that I'm the main tank and this other lesser geared person who hasn't tanked ICC before is the offtank.  I'm pulling trash just fine up to Marrowgar.  I tell the other guy to dance like I do (left then right) and he doesn't respond.  On Marrowgar we pull, I'm moving into position, and buddy taunts off of me and pulls him in a completely different direction (I out-threat him with my rotation, so he doesn't HOLD aggro, which means the boss moves AGAIN and starts cleaving people).  I thought this would be a fluke, but NO.  This goes on ALL NIGHT.  Every time I have a boss or have a pack of mobs, he taunts them all off of me and brings them over to a different position.  After the 2nd boss, I stop pulling and tell him it's his raid, he can do it all - which he does, badly, and people are getting angry because he's not doing a good job and letting them die.  I just kick back and auto-attack, which I doubt anyone but my 2 friends who were LIVID at how horrible this was going noticed.

I could have tolerated crappy tanking, but what really set me over the edge was some guy decided to take over as raid leader and kept explaining to me over vent in MINUTE detail how EVERY SINGLE PULL AND BOSS went despite me telling him I've been raiding the place for 9 months, have all of the achievements and hard modes down.  I quit and told the guild I wasn't tanking for them anymore, and no one understood why.

[Paelos]

I agree that once the parameters were set, the dude shouldn't have been taunting like mad. However, it was obvious at the beginning who wanted to tank, and you told them to go fuck themselves in the ear. Whenever that happens right at the start when people aren't clear about jobs, you might as well not even bother. I'm not saying you weren't better, or that he didn't suck (which was obvious that he did), but it's the expectations gap in the raid. You reacted in the completely correct  manner after it went sideways by letting the leader hang himself.

For some reason a lot of bad leaders think they have to tank to lead, and a lot of bad tanks think that because they are tanking they CAN lead. Example, one of our hunters who did very good dps led and was an adequate leader for that period of 25 man content. He wasn't spectacular, but he tried hard and kept things rolling. When he needed pointers, he would ask me in tells and I would help him out so he could take control over Vent. We went 4/5 in Hyjal, which was very successful for our group, and farmed it regularly. Then, in WotLK Naxx, he decided that to co-lead he had to start tanking. He was better geared at the time, along with another tank, so as the raid leader I got out of the way and switched to DPS. The problem was that he was half the tank he was as a dps hunter, and his gear upgrades never seemed to make drastic improvements in his performance. The healers hated healing him, and never ceased telling me about it when I put them on his assignment. He ended up getting into a yelling match with his own wife who was healing him at one point. His mood continued to sour and he just got into this tailspin of fail after we went into ToC 25. At that point, I had to cut him from the raid, and he ended up taking a break from the game because it had all gone to pieces.

This all happened because he tried to be something he wasn't. You don't have to lead to tank, and you don't have to tank to lead.

[Chimpy]

Ironwood, I applaud your desire to have the game require a little bit of mental work to be playable. But I think that the majority of people who actually would succeed in such a world have moved on, like myself.

The level of idiocy was bad when I quit near the end of the original WotLK dungeon cycle, and it sounds like it has just gotten worse.

[Ironwood]

You make an environment where people can be idiots, they will be.  The AoE tanking silliness in the game at the moment is the cause of the idiocy.  If people had to calm down or die, they'd calm down.  It's not like people just got stupider.  They were just let away with more.

[Paelos]

You make an environment where people can be idiots, they will be.  The AoE tanking silliness in the game at the moment is the cause of the idiocy.  If people had to calm down or die, they'd calm down.  It's not like people just got stupider.  They were just let away with more.

I agree with this line of thinking. They aren't going to quit, they are going to adapt. They won't be less stupid, but they will be at least a more focused brand of stupid.

[Lantyssa]

I doubt that.  That's two polar extremes.  What's more likely is that fucking idiots will have to adapt and actually listen.

I think you've been spending too much time down at the pub.  Now the idiots might leave and people who no longer have to worry about tolerating them might fill the gaps, but the idiots will never learn.

For some reason a lot of bad leaders think they have to tank to lead, and a lot of bad tanks think that because they are tanking they CAN lead.

This was my problem with being a tank.  I don't want to lead.  I want to be told what to hit and worry about keeping things off people.  I already find it an intense job that takes a lot out of me since I'm hyper-focused on trying to watch things (and I'm admittedly a bit slow in my reflexes...).  Leading takes a lot out of me, too since I'm bad at herding cats (amusingly, I'm pretty good at wrangling real cats).  If I have to do both, I'm ready to quit within thirty minutes.

But it's expected the tank leads.  Because of that, I won't tank for anyone but a group of mostly friends where I can be a lazy leader.

[Ratman_tf]

We had a situation similar to Shrike's last year (I think it was last year, anyway). So one day I notice there's someone in our guild named "Elemenstraul." I report his name without even thinking about it. As it turns out, so did several other people in the guild. <3 When the change went through, he wanted help picking a new name.  He "had" to have one that referred somehow to womenparts because he's a guy and the toon is female (that was seriously his reasoning). My guild actually has a fair number of women in it, and they pretty much all told him he was a moron.

I usually play nice when I'm playing a female character, but I did succumb and name my NE hunter's Owl pet, Hooters.

[Ironwood]

That's at least amusing.

It's an owl.  It works.

Calling your Wolf Slickpenis wouldn't scan.

[ezrast]

I will confess, ever since the time I saw a character named "Dora" with the title "the Explorer", I've kind of wanted to get the same title on a character named "Internet". Except Internet is already taken on my server so I'd have to do it with nonstandard characters. Hmm.

[Rasix]

I will confess, ever since the time I saw a character named "Dora" with the title "the Explorer", I've kind of wanted to get the same title on a character named "Internet". Except Internet is already taken on my server so I'd have to do it with nonstandard characters. Hmm.

Don't be that guy.

[Shrike]

I will confess, ever since the time I saw a character named "Dora" with the title "the Explorer", I've kind of wanted to get the same title on a character named "Internet". Except Internet is already taken on my server so I'd have to do it with nonstandard characters. Hmm.

Funny you should mention this. When my guild was doing MC, we had a guild alliance of about 3-5 guilds, depending on time frame. One of our primary healers from that time was named Diora. You can see where this is going.   

Anyway, she still plays in her old guild and has friends and aquaintences in my guild. I ran into her a couple of weeks ago and, sure enough, her title was "the Explorer." Diora the Explorer.

[Paelos]

I will confess, ever since the time I saw a character named "Dora" with the title "the Explorer", I've kind of wanted to get the same title on a character named "Internet". Except Internet is already taken on my server so I'd have to do it with nonstandard characters. Hmm.

Don't be that guy.

Exactly, keep it classy. I've booted member alts for signing up in guild with those wacky o's with the things over them. They are like, "but you can invite with clicks now!" 

[Rendakor]

Glad I'm not the only one with a zero-tolerance policy for those stupid characters.

[Ingmar]

Our guild has very, very few actual written down rules, but one of them is "absolutely no characters with non-standard characters in their name." This has only caused drama once or twice.  One guy that I wanted to get rid of got so mad I ended up having to kick him, so it was really a win/win sort of thing. (Come to think of it I think it was that same Elemenstraul guy.)

[Chimpy]

'Special' characters used to be against Blizzard's naming policy anyway because there was no way to put them on your ignore list unless you knew how to type in the alt characters. I knew one girl that basically had to stop playing because she kept being harrassed by some kid who kept making low level toons with special character names and sending her constant tells. He also seemed to know all of her alt characters' names too.

[Lantyssa]

Calling your Wolf Slickpenis wouldn't scan.

A wolf should be named Avery.

[Ironwood]

Odd you should say that as my Slick Penis is called Avery.

[Paelos]

I named my wolf Virginia.

[Ironwood]

Tiger is Hobbes, Silithid is Rico and Crab is Bisque.  The worm is called Hector, but I don't know why.

[Lantyssa]

I thought the worm meant you're running on Empty.

[Merusk]

Hmm.. I have Sampson the Tiger (They look exactly like my first cat and I name my animals after mythical heroes)  Leopold the Ravager, Blinky the Blink Dragon thing from BC and Snuffles the Rhino.

[Rasix]

Our guild has very, very few actual written down rules, but one of them is "absolutely no characters with non-standard characters in their name." This has only caused drama once or twice.  One guy that I wanted to get rid of got so mad I ended up having to kick him, so it was really a win/win sort of thing. (Come to think of it I think it was that same Elemenstraul guy.)

I think this is something I would have to enforce, if I we actually ever recruited.  I am the sole owner of a "dumb" name in my guild.  Morecowbell the druid, although he is pretty much permanently parked at 70, as I don't really think I'll ever want to play a druid again.  Almost every name in our guild could be pulled straight from a random name generator.  It's pretty nice.

[Sjofn]

We had a situation similar to Shrike's last year (I think it was last year, anyway). So one day I notice there's someone in our guild named "Elemenstraul." I report his name without even thinking about it. As it turns out, so did several other people in the guild. <3 When the change went through, he wanted help picking a new name.  He "had" to have one that referred somehow to womenparts because he's a guy and the toon is female (that was seriously his reasoning). My guild actually has a fair number of women in it, and they pretty much all told him he was a moron.

I usually play nice when I'm playing a female character, but I did succumb and name my NE hunter's Owl pet, Hooters.

You and probably around 85% of manginas with owl pets.  

The one thing I'll give him, he's the only dude I've seen who decided to go for a period reference in his questionable name instead of boobs or cooch.

EDIT:

Our guild has very, very few actual written down rules, but one of them is "absolutely no characters with non-standard characters in their name." This has only caused drama once or twice.  One guy that I wanted to get rid of got so mad I ended up having to kick him, so it was really a win/win sort of thing. (Come to think of it I think it was that same Elemenstraul guy.)

It was RIGHT THERE in my story! YOU NEVER LISTEN

[Morat20]

Hmm.. I have Sampson the Tiger (They look exactly like my first cat and I name my animals after mythical heroes)  Leopold the Ravager, Blinky the Blink Dragon thing from BC and Snuffles the Rhino.

Whisper the snow leopard, Ghost the LBRS wolf, Cinder the Core hound, and Steadfast the turtle.

[Typhon]

I named my wolf Virginia.

   that's good, do like.

[Selby]

You reacted in the completely correct  manner after it went sideways by letting the leader hang himself.

I wasn't going to rage quit or start a huge scene, but I sure wasn't going to keep wasting my time and effort on him.  My main gripe is they asked me to bring this character to the guild specifically because they needed a good tank who knew the fights and knew the class mechanics, which I do.  And every night I am asked to raid they ask me if I can DPS because apparently some of their alts decided they wanted to learn how to tank (the aforementioned buddy who didn't do a good job at it).

You don't have to lead to tank, and you don't have to tank to lead.

I agree.  My old 10m had a DPS who lead and the tanks just did their jobs.  I am the same way.  I don't lead raids (because I'm a royal bitch about it) so therefore I just sit back and do my job and do it well.  Let someone else deal with the headaches of trying to herd the cats over voice chat.

[Sjofn]

My guild is filled to the brim with non-leaders, and generally the only ones willing to even attempt to lead for a long time were the tanks because goddammit someone has to and I guess the people we have willing to tank are willing to do just about any shitty job.    We do have a couple non-tanks stepping up lately (partly because the "regular" tanks all burned out around the same time and the back up tanks were not willing to lead in the least), so that's cool.

For hunter pets, I'm mostly pretty boring. My wolf is named Fang (to go with Ingmar's wolf Grip), my tallstrider is Nellie, my owl is Luna, my white tiger is named Gribeau, the times I have a bear, she is named Birna, and the times I have a boar, it is either named Petunia or Pigmallion, unless I mercilessly steal Ingmar's favorite boar name, Boaromir.

[lesion]

Anyone have use for a good rogue/DKtankcough/mage? My server is full of stupid-heads.

[Lantyssa]

Deviate Dreadfang named Coriolis, a Death Ravager named Quillion, and in the past a white crockolisk named Bindy.  I think my ghostly leopard is Duma, but I've used a couple of other cat names I can't remember.

It was RIGHT THERE in my story! YOU NEVER LISTEN

He's probably deaf from all the shouting.

[Sheepherder]

A guild master on my server had a wind serpent named SarahPalin.

[Azazel]

I hope to hell the instances in Cataclysm are as punishing as they used to be and they don't back down on it.  DPS needs to learn how to play again.

See, you're trying to do the grumpy old man thing, but you're just coming off like the 22-year-old uber-catass instead. (I've been there, too. Back in my EQ days, got the coffee mug and all that). But I'm older now, and I don't have the time, inclination or patience for a cockstabbing grind or ultra fine margins for error - and more importantly, other people's errors. I just want to get on and have fun. And yeah, my mains have been a rogue and a mage, and I am quite competent at CC. But no longer have any interest in hardmode, and I won't pay a monthly fee to play it.

It'll go in one of two ways. Either Blizzard will nerf the crap out of dungeons very quickly, or dungeon running will become the preserve of guild groups and high-entry-requirement realm pugs only. I honestly don't think that the majority of the current playerbase will be able to adjust to the tougher instances in a reasonable time frame.

This. And aside from the fact that I've just come back to the game recently, my guild is a big mass of randoms with a couple of self-styled "ëlite forces" groups within who pretty much only play with one another unless they need one of the peasants to help out. I've loved the dungeon finder. I hate pugs, getting groups together, gearscore, all that shit. I'm not doing any dungeons once Cata hits. I won't be able to.

I give my current time on WoW however long my current gamecard has after cata hits, with a minimum of a month. As long as I have fun for my remaining time in the game, it's all good. But I have no need to (pay to) play through the dickgrinding phase. I'll come back when they have nerfed the dickpunching into submission and the people around me have started to ourgear the content so I can come along casually and enjoy mysel in an online computer game that I sometimes play after work..