Bad Groups

[Shrike]

It also depends on your raid. If you're recruiting douchebags just to fill raid spots as quickly as possible, don't be surprised when they act like the assholes they are. Your people have to have some commitment to the raid, not just their own character.

When we were still in T7 content, I was (atypically) able to gear up very quickly just out of pure luck. Well, aside from that fucker KT never dropping my claw...but I digress. Even after getting almost everything I wanted, I was still on board for any Naxx raid until my schedule changed and I could no longer do 25s. It's paying it back to the guild. It wasn't always like that for me, since I typically suck on /rolls and have just plain bad luck on needed drops. It pays off when the raid leadership (at that time) slaps down a whiner when they aren't getting weekend 10man slots in favor to my shaman--who could only do weekends.

That's why you don't do DKP shit. You want that loot to be evenly distributed to keep people in the game and interested. It also minimizes disruption when someone quits. Ironically, our newest RLs don't really get this and are about to lose some very long term people come Cataclysm unless something fundamentally changes--although this is more about scheduling and not loot systems.

[Merusk]

DKP systems that don't reset at every gear level and zero-out a person's points upon granting of loot are horribly, horribly broken or run by guys looking to gear themselves first.  Most likely the latter.

When you zero out points, suddenly even newbs can compete on their first night.

[apocrypha]

run by guys looking to gear themselves first.

It's this. Unfortunately those guys are my brother and his boyfriend 

[Paelos]

run by guys looking to gear themselves first.

It's this. Unfortunately those guys are my brother and his boyfriend  

I'd suggest kicking his ass. Then take his RL stuff and claim you rolled higher.

[WoopeeTuralyon]

But rolls don't matter in the DKP system, and he, therefore, has no right to his brothers loot until he builds up enough DKP.

[apocrypha]

Did our first run with them yesterday. Casual 10 man ICC on a Saturday afternoon. No DKP or anything. Did 10 bosses in under 3 hours with only 1 wipe (on Dreamwalker) and both me and one of the guys who transferred over with me got 2 bits of loot. Was awesome, relaxed and fun. Only reason we didn't proceed to Sind & LK was a few people had to go out for real life stuff.

My fears were groundless, the asshattery seems to be reserved for the leet 25m hc groups. 

[Morat20]

My guild did 10-man ICC again last night. Once again, being the only Hunter made bosses sort of a loot-pinata. (Got a shoulder piece and a trinket last run, got a belt and an axe this run. No one rolled for the belt, and only one person rolled against me for the axe).

Of course, the downside is my +hit dropped to 211 so I have to figure out someway to get that back up. I think 250ish is where I should be. Also got my first level of the Ashen Verdict ring. Defintely looking forward to getting honored so I can pick up the ammo schematics.

This was the third guild run (casual guild, regular ICC I believe) on ICC and we finally cleared Deathbringer. (Three wipes on that damn first boss until we had a druid swap from DPS to off-healer. We kept having out two healers getting bone spiked. I've resigned myself to dying on that boss every time). No wipes on the second boss, a wipe on the ship due to some tank screwup from the new off-tank, then two or three wipes on Deathbringer.

Then we did that straight up winged boss for the Frost badge and called it a night. We'd all still kill for the guild mages to be free. Or a rogue. It was DK's, Druids, one warlock and me the Hunter.

Strangely enough, I came out ahead for the night. (I had been soloing some old dungeons for achievements and had a few rareish BoE blues drop that sold well on the AH).

[Selby]

Of course, the downside is my +hit dropped to 211 so I have to figure out someway to get that back up. I think 250ish is where I should be.

8% I believe, which is around 265ish.

Did 10 bosses in under 3 hours with only 1 wipe (on Dreamwalker) and both me and one of the guys who transferred over with me got 2 bits of loot.

Now that's a good group.  I transferred a tank over to another server help a friend's guild out and these guys get the first wing down and struggle with Putricide all night.  They say they want a LK kill before the expansion, but unless they practice and work together better I don't see it happening.  Luckily I don't need any loot or need to worry about anything, so I just offer my suggestions when asked and provide a stable tanking environment ;-)

[Sheepherder]

32.79 hit rating per 1%.  263 to be capped, 230 if you have a Dranei in your party (not raid).

[Morat20]

32.79 hit rating per 1%.  263 to be capped, 230 if you have a Dranei in your party (not raid).

I don't think any of the regulars is Dranaei. I'm BM-specced. I might have a +hit bonus with the pet out. Dunno. Probably just have to regem and choose different shoulder/head stuff.

Currently I've got the MC tinker on the helmet, but since I'm a Hunter it's pretty useless.

[Ingmar]

It is pretty easy to fit the 3% hit in the first tier of marks into any spec. (BM kind of sucks for raid dps btw - it is on the short list of specs that Blizzard has essentially admitted are broken for that purpose, along with frost mage, arms warrior, and subtlety rogue.)

[Chimpy]

Well, BM was king of the hill of all DPS classes in the game at the end of the last expansion, so you can't win them all :p

[Morat20]

It is pretty easy to fit the 3% hit in the first tier of marks into any spec. (BM kind of sucks for raid dps btw - it is on the short list of specs that Blizzard has essentially admitted are broken for that purpose, along with frost mage, arms warrior, and subtlety rogue.)

I have a BM specced hunter and a frost mage.....goddamit. :)

I'm dual-speccing to Marks for raids as soon as the price goes down. Don't know which glyphs I'll want to swap.

Speaking of bad groups, was doing the first two BC dungeons with my frost mage. First, we had a fucking tank that didn't know how to pull properly, resulting in two wipes because he decided to pull when the healer was OOM and when he decided to pull and fight right in a patrol path.

Second time through, we had a 60 "dps warrior" (arms specced, looked like) who was pulling...119 DPS. We booted his ass before the first boss, because in addition to sucking, he was also a jerk-ass.

[Ironwood]

Guy was probably training polearms for that fucking two handed shit that drops from the dragon.

[Chimpy]

I'm dual-speccing to Marks for raids as soon as the price goes down. Don't know which glyphs I'll want to swap.

Serpent sting, steady shot, and uhm....fuck if I remember what the other major we all used were. Maybe hunter's mark.

There is one minor glyph that was uber, can't remember what it was though.

[Morat20]

Guy was probably training polearms for that fucking two handed shit that drops from the dragon.

I love Recount. Still had the moron down. I present to you -- Gandenath. 119 DPS through Hellfire Ramparts.

His gear is fucking hilarious. leather, +agility helm, the +spellpower necklace, the mail pants  -- his shoulders are leather, his chestpiece is from Razorfens. Half or more of his gear is under ilevel 40.

Oh, and his largest hit dealt? 900.

[Sheepherder]

I used to wear quite a bit of leather and mail on my warrior.  There's a lot of itemization gaps in the old world and even TBC where you cannot consistently replace shit.

While the spellpower is sad, you missed the fact that he doesn't have Mortal Strike.

[Shrike]

Holy...wow. Heh.

How does that guy have 1000 HKs? My own 58 warrior has 2.5x his hit points. And that talent...spec. Shotgun spec.

Has to be a new player. Clueless, relying on quest rewards, lack of timely upgrades, no focus on talent tree. Yeah, new guy.

[pants]

I'm dual-speccing to Marks for raids as soon as the price goes down. Don't know which glyphs I'll want to swap.

Serpent sting, steady shot, and uhm....fuck if I remember what the other major we all used were. Maybe hunter's mark.

There is one minor glyph that was uber, can't remember what it was though.

Yup - MM you want serpent sting, steady shot, and the other is a bit of a tossup between Kill Shot, Trueshot Aura, and Hunter's Mark - they're all pretty close.

Minor Glyphs - uhm, Feign Death is good, Mend Pet is good (never feed your pet again) - can't remember what the 3rd one is.

Morat - depending on how theorycrafty you feel - check out http://femaledwarf.com - you can import your char and play with different gear and talents etc, and it will show your DPS for each setup.  Very handy tool to play with.

[Morat20]

Not too theory-crafty. Frankly, I mostly go for utility or ease of life. Like, say, my frost mage will probably slot the major glyph that makes the water elemental permanent. And yeah, I have the minor "Improved Mend Pet" for exactly that. I hate feeding my pet.

This is my main -- Kalan. The gear and jewels and enchants/whatever aren't all optimal, nor is the talent spec, but it's workable and I can pull my weight in a casual guild. I'll be thrilled when I can replace the boots, cloak, and necklace with better gear. (Not that the cloack is bad, but it's PvP. I've got...45ish frost badges. My next purchase is the cloak).

[Ingmar]

The 3rd hunter glyph doesn't really matter so clearly you should take the EYES OF THE BEAST one. 

[WoopeeTuralyon]

Guy was probably training polearms for that fucking two handed shit that drops from the dragon.

I love Recount. Still had the moron down. I present to you -- Gandenath. 119 DPS through Hellfire Ramparts.

His gear is fucking hilarious. leather, +agility helm, the +spellpower necklace, the mail pants  -- his shoulders are leather, his chestpiece is from Razorfens. Half or more of his gear is under ilevel 40.

Oh, and his largest hit dealt? 900.

Wow, and that guy has been foisting himself upon innocent members of his faction for quite a while to get those 1000 HKs. Oh, and level 30s can hit for 900...

[Morat20]

The 3rd hunter glyph doesn't really matter so clearly you should take the EYES OF THE BEAST one. 

I don't even GET that fucking glyph. I only use eyes of the beast to make my pet jump off something if I'm too lazy to dismiss it.

I go back and forth on the perma-water elemental one for my frost mage. On the one hand, I like meat shields and pets. On the other hand, there's probably better glyphs....choices, choices.

[Chimpy]

Eyes of the beast was useful back in the days of Molten Yore when we had hunters pet pull the whole zone. Pets were just running around and aggroing shit then though. No one I know of has used a pet to attack anything outside of a "haha going to totally kill this afk person in AV with my pet" moment.

[Morat20]

Eyes of the beast was useful back in the days of Molten Yore when we had hunters pet pull the whole zone. Pets were just running around and aggroing shit then though. No one I know of has used a pet to attack anything outside of a "haha going to totally kill this afk person in AV with my pet" moment.

My pet only aggros groups if (1) I'm a total idiot and tab-target or something, and tell my pet to attack the wrong guy or (2) Fucking fears.

In the case of (2) anyone could accidentally aggro a group, and (1) I try not to be an idiot.

I actually did Molten Core last week with my 80. About ten of us went. The music at Ragnoros was pretty awesome. I'd forgotten that. It was pretty fun just fucking burning down bosses without having to worry about their mechanics. Quite a contrast to my first few visits, when if you didn't have the right gear, the right positioning, you were fucked. Hell, I remember struggling to handle the handoffs of....shit, the snakey-boss with the healers? Tag the healers, hand them off to off-tanks while the main tank holds the boss, drag a healer far enough away, burn him down when the others can't heal him, repeat...

Yeah, I remember having to bitch that the reason we kept wiping was because no one bothered to heal or remove that damn DoT the priests put on us pullers. So four of us would go down from it right as we started killing the first priest, and they'd wonder why our DPS wasn't enough to kill everyone before our healers went OOM.

Maybe it was because you lost 4 DPS right as the fight started? :) We were stuck on that guy for like three weeks.....

[Chimpy]

No....you misunderstand.

In MC, we used hunters to pull mobs for the raid with EotB.

[SurfD]

No....you misunderstand.

In MC, we used hunters to pull mobs for the raid with EotB.

Yeah, hunters would often pull Geddon and Shazzra since you always fought them in garrs room, and setting up the raid and then sending a pet in to pull the boss was always easier then trying to have a "pull team" do it.

[Chimpy]

Shit, in my first real guild hunters pet pulled everything. WoW's no leashing mechanics meant you could chain pull to the tanks without having to have the raid move much. Made the imps/surgers before Luci ez mode when you pulled the packs out to the bridge.

[Morat20]

Shit, in my first real guild hunters pet pulled everything. WoW's no leashing mechanics meant you could chain pull to the tanks without having to have the raid move much. Made the imps/surgers before Luci ez mode when you pulled the packs out to the bridge.

Yeah, it was a bit weird having to teach a newbie Hunter (real newbie -- his level 50-ish guy I was PuGing with in UBRS was his main. This was like two weeks ago) how to pull Drak.

He still managed to die, which shocked me. I've done that pull god knows how many times and never had a problem. I think he forgot to turn Cheetah on.....

With misdirection, there's no reason Hunter's shouldn't do pulls -- except that in WoTLK, it's just not necessary.

[Chimpy]

I am not talking about the stupid "kite drak" method of making a relatively easy encounter into a circus act.

I was speaking of pet-pulling raids. Also, Misdirect was added in TBC.

[Azazel]

I used to wear quite a bit of leather and mail on my warrior.  There's a lot of itemization gaps in the old world and even TBC where you cannot consistently replace shit.

While the spellpower is sad, you missed the fact that he doesn't have Mortal Strike.

Well, I see it this way - 2 laps around Hellfire Peninsula and he (should) replace (almost?) all that shit with some damn nice quest rewards for the level. Won't teach him how to play or get a respec, but it'd make him a bit less.. random.

[Sheepherder]

Not too theory-crafty. Frankly, I mostly go for utility or ease of life. Like, say, my frost mage will probably slot the major glyph that makes the water elemental permanent. And yeah, I have the minor "Improved Mend Pet" for exactly that. I hate feeding my pet.

This is my main -- Kalan. The gear and jewels and enchants/whatever aren't all optimal, nor is the talent spec, but it's workable and I can pull my weight in a casual guild. I'll be thrilled when I can replace the boots, cloak, and necklace with better gear. (Not that the cloack is bad, but it's PvP. I've got...45ish frost badges. My next purchase is the cloak).

1. Femaledwarf isn't hard to use, I'd recommend it.
2. You only need three points in frenzy, serious diminishing returns afterward.

[Morat20]

I am not talking about the stupid "kite drak" method of making a relatively easy encounter into a circus act.

I was speaking of pet-pulling raids. Also, Misdirect was added in TBC.

UBRS was a PITA if you didn't kite drak, at least with the gear-level most people went with in Vanilla.

I know misdirect was added in TBC. I find it amusing that they added misdirect at about the same time they were changing instances so you didn't need to pull and hand-off aggro like that anymore -- tanks could do the pull, grab aggro, and that was about it. Hell, I rarely see anything other than face-pulls or a single ranged spell/shot to get their attention.

I don't really raid (other than, you know, 10-man ICC which doesn't really count) so I'm assuming it's still there, but these days it's generally all on the tank to get the mobs where you want them. Misdirect is really only useful to help dump aggro.

And since Hunters have feign death, it's not even that useful. I mostly use it when I'm about to blow cool-downs, or when I'm doing things like farming groups -- misdirect onto the pet, then hit with volley.

[Ingmar]

I just don't trust hunters enough to let them pull. 

[Chimpy]

I ran the zone probably a hundred times before I ever even HEARD of the kite drak "method". No one on Horde on Garona did it, we pugged the shit out of that place before a single guild on our server had even killed Ragnaros.

First time I ever had anyone say something about kiting drak was when I rerolled an alliance hunter to raid Naxx with friends, over a year later.