Bad Groups

[Zetor]

I have rankwatch set to only say stuff in the chat window. (not even a 'say')

There are occasional legit reasons to use downrank abilities, especially when running low level instances (lower rank heals cast faster), and the tell spam is freakin' annoying. If there is severe downranking going on, I'll send a tell to the person, but but I do that manually and only once. I'm probably doing it wrong. :p

[Sheepherder]

There are occasional legit reasons to use downrank abilities, especially when running low level instances (lower rank heals cast faster), and the tell spam is freakin' annoying.

Faster heals is not a legit reason, because by level 20-ish every class has a harder hitting, similar cost fast heal that scales normally with spell power.  Except for druids, who can pre-HoT with a Rejuvenation that will likely tick as hard as and have the same cost as a single down ranked HT.

[Azuredream]

I cast rank 1 life tap all the time for the buff. Not sure if that would set off rankwatch.

[Ironwood]

What buff ?

[SurfD]

Warlocks have either a talent or a Tier Set Bonus (not sure which) that grants them bonus spellpower every time they lifetap.

[Sheepherder]

Glyph of Life Tap.  It grants spellpower based on spirit when you tap.

[kildorn]

I cast rank 1 life tap all the time for the buff. Not sure if that would set off rankwatch.

I've never gotten a notice for it, so I think rankwatch ignores the rank 1 LT cheese.

[Minvaren]

Twice have I attempted to PuG Sunwell.
Twice have I been more ashamed of people than AQ40 runs... before clearing the first boss, even.

I went on hiatus around the time that it was released - any memories you'd care to share?   

[Selby]

Twice have I been more ashamed of people than AQ40 runs... before clearing the first boss, even.

Someone advertising that in trade?  My first question is "how do you plan on dealing with the twins?" and if the answer isn't to my satisfaction, I don't even bother going.

[Minvaren]

Maybe I misspoke - that's my response for AQ40 as well, but I was meaning to refer to a PuG for Sunwell.

[Malakili]

Maybe I misspoke - that's my response for AQ40 as well, but I was meaning to refer to a PuG for Sunwell.

Back when Sunwell was new I just flat refused to do it without a full group of guildies or friends.  There was too slim a margin for error when it came out (on heroic) to do it any other way.   Combined with the allure of "easy" epix back then, it was easy to get really undergeared and underskilled people.  I tried it once or twice to try and get my trinket or something early on and after that instituted my no pug rule.    You needed lots of CC, a good tank, a good healer, and decent dps.  This was pre pull it all together and AoE it down being the normal MO for dungeons you of course.  Now you can get away with almost anything by comparison.

[Ingmar]

Maybe I misspoke - that's my response for AQ40 as well, but I was meaning to refer to a PuG for Sunwell.

Back when Sunwell was new I just flat refused to do it without a full group of guildies or friends.  There was too slim a margin for error when it came out (on heroic) to do it any other way.   Combined with the allure of "easy" epix back then, it was easy to get really undergeared and underskilled people.  I tried it once or twice to try and get my trinket or something early on and after that instituted my no pug rule.    You needed lots of CC, a good tank, a good healer, and decent dps.  This was pre pull it all together and AoE it down being the normal MO for dungeons you of course.  Now you can get away with almost anything by comparison.

I think he means the Sunwell raid, not Magister's Terrace.

[Ginaz]

I was in a group last night doing  H. Utgarde Pinacle, on my brand new 80 rogue, with a DK for a tank.  He had a GS of over 5500 and a pvp title so you would assume he would be a somewhat composite tank.  Wrong.  We wiped on the very first pull after the entrance because he didn't drop his aoe and the adds killed the other dps and the healer, then him and then finally me (go go vanish fail).  Upon further inspection, not only did he not drop DnD but he wasn't in frost presence, something we had to tell him numerous times to do after we were ressed before he finally did it.  We got past the 1st boss and then got to the room with the 2nd boss and all the stuffed animals that come to life.  Instead of clicking on the orb to start the event he runs all the way down to the boss.   He was either a friend/relative playing someone else's account or bought it because theres no way someone with the kind of gear he had and a pvp title is that clueless.  Needless to say we kicked him and got a pally tank to finish things off.

Another group yesterday imploded after 2 of them started typing in Spanish and someone else didin't like it so he felt obligated to make racist comments about Mexicans.  All 3 of them ended up leaving but we were able to get replacements fairly quickly and carried on to the end.  I get kind of annoyed when people start typing in another language when I'm grouped with them but only because I want to know what they're saying if its regarding the dungeon we're in.  We're on North American servers (is Mexico on the NA servers or are they grouped with the SA ones???) and its pretty much expected that you communicate in English if your grouped with people you don't know imo. 

Anyway, 2 bad groups in one day is unusual for me, which I can live with.  For the most part, my experience in pugs has been fairly good.

[Rendakor]

I don't see why you would associate a PVP title (which one was it?) with skill at PVE or tanking.

[Ginaz]

I don't see why you would associate a PVP title (which one was it?) with skill at PVE or tanking.

I assumed he would have at least known to drop DnD for multiple mobs or what frost presence is for without being told to do it.  Besides, he was wearing a lot of non-emblem pve gear which says to me he's done some raiding (maybe not as a tank though).

[Zetor]

I've been leveling an alt hunter mostly through the dungeon finder and an occasional BG to break it up. I'm at level 65 atm and things have been going smooth... for the most part (yeah, tanks with res sickness and blood presence DW tanking DKs are out there, that's part of the fun dammit ). Then, Path of Frost happened.

It was Underbog; we had a warrior, a mage, a rogue, a resto shaman and a hunter [me], all tricked out with BOAs -- looked like an easy run. As we were burning through the first few groups, the shaman said "turn path of frost off, now", repeating a few times for emphasis, pointing out that the graphics annoyed him/her*. The DK silently obliged, and the mage poked some fun about how spell graphics will get even more annoying and spammy at 80, to which the shaman replied "oh, so you want to turn it into 'insult the healer's computer' thing? i have no qualms whatsoever about leaving." A few more pulls and we were at the first boss; tank has to go afk for a short bio break. The DK emotes a sigh, turns on path of frost, jumps up and down a few times and leaves the group. The shaman is really ticked off at this point and gets into a verbal spat with the mage and they start yelling about who sucks more / is pissing the other off more, then they BOTH leave the group. Warrior comes back and wonders wtf happened, we queue, get 3 replacements in a minute or so and finish the instance with zero issues [we did mana tombs right after as well].

I'm still not sure what caused everyone to flip out... apparently, Path of Frost graphics are super serious business.  


* I'm aware that you can use path of frost to kill people via fall damage, but that was not the case here... even the jump after the hydra boss is fairly short.

[K9]

Path of frost does seem to be one of the bigger FPS hogs when it comes to player spell effects.

[Merusk]

It is.  I watch FPS tank every time I turn it on.  Also, POF IS pretty damn annoying in terms of graphics, and I'm a DK player.   I rank it right up there with Consecrate and D&D in terms of "this is damned annoying" visual garbage.

[Shrike]

Aside from PoF follies, I've seen a spate of Really Bad Tanks lately. Not just DKs, either (although, they do figure prominately). I think we've had to kick four in the last two weeks. They fall into three categories:

1) Prima-donna douchebag. Dumbass that typically start spouting about how he doesn't want to see dps below him on recount (or whatever) soon as he hits the instance. Last guy lasted about 2 minutes. I have no tolerance for this shit anymore. I simply don't want to hear it, regardless of reason and/or (lack) of justification. Falls under "life is too short" reasoning.

2) Can't hold aggro. This one tends to weigh heavily on DKs, but had a really bad pally last night, too. If I'm on my shaman, this is merely annoying, but if I'm on my DK or warrior, well, I want to finish this instance and get my stuff before next weekend, so you're gone.

3) Clueless. Has no clue how to tank, or even function. Generally can't hold aggro either, but it's just total cluelessness. Marking wrong mobs, pulling weird shit, overpulling, and just generaly "what the hell is he thinking?!?" type behavior. Had one of these in Forge the other night. His truly weird target marking habits had us all laughing (though, he did--mostly--hold aggro). Only reason we kept him around. More typical was the drunk asshole in PoS last weekend. Kicked him after second wipe when he--evidently--passed out at the keyboard.

I could go on about idiot healers, too, but that's another thread.

[Selby]

I've only recently started running the daily heroic again for the 2 badges and cash, but I must agree.  It's like a good number of people checked their brains at the door when they enter an instance.  I never chastise a DPS for doing less than the tank, but when you have mostly 232-245 PVE items and you are doing sub-1k DPS?  I tend to get annoyed, since that means I am doing most of the work in the instance and you are either incompetent or just cruising along.  I do admit that the decently geared warlock doing 300DPS the other day did get made fun of by the rest of the group and they didn't accept the "stuff dies too fast for me to DoT" excuse either.

I do get lots of "I'm running this for frosts, we're skipping everything possible" tanks which doesn't bother me too much, but there is usually A LOT of bitching from others regarding this.

[Setanta]

I thought POF was just my comp - nice to see it isn't. It's weird that people have issues tanking, I tank heroics in PvP gear as unholy (32K HP in Frost presence admittedly) and can hold aggro unless some idiot starts hitting the mobs that aren't my main target (usually huntards as opposed to hunters).

I find it easier to tank as a DK or druid than I do as a warrior - and I don't even try on my Pally.

DKs are the new huntards though - I once had to point out to one he was Blood specced but tanking in Unholy presence and couldn't work out why he couldn't hold aggro (hi frost presence) :D

[Shrike]

This all brings up another observation: if your "tank" is at about 60% hps when you zone in, chances are he just switched from his dps spec and you should keep a weather eye on him. About 75% of these seem to lack a viable clue.

Another bit of evidence of secondary spec'd tanking, is the complaint that your DK "tank" is awfully squishy. Usually a quick look will reveal he's not even in the same zip code as being defense capped. This won't end well. I only mentioned DKs since not being def capped is particulary egregious with them, as they lack the extra bit of insurance that blocking can give when they typically overpull trash packs--also this might indicate a clueless healer, since most will assume that DKs will be like warriors or pallies when overpulling--and they're not. Then there's the morons that assume DKs can heal themselves through about anything...blood almost can, but the other two...no.

The list is apparently endless. Fortunately--as I type this--this last night's adventures in Azeroth were mercifully idiot-free (aside from that brief glimpse of trade chat).

[Lantyssa]

I'm Blood spec but tank in Frost of course.  I am better at keeping myself healed up, and I love rune tap, but we definitely have limits on the self-healing.  It has saved me on several occasions though.

[Shrike]

My DK rolls as blood in her dps spec. I have to say I enjoy it immensely. In fact, the other night, we had a near wipe on Devourer when the healer managed to get himself killed (still not sure how). The pally tank kept herself up until the boss was about at 10%. I had to solo him the rest of the way down. Ended up at about 80% hps. Have to love death strike spam. Impressive!

I also tank as frost. DW frost, in fact. It's...interesting. I just got a decent new 2hander, so I"m considering going back to blood tanking. If I ever get my PvP set done, I'm going in as a modified blood dps spec. Normally, I'd go unholy, but I"ve become very fond of blood over the last couple of months. The survivability is truly impressive.

[Lantyssa]

Blood tank is a lot of fun.  If you enjoy it as DPS I recommend giving it a whirl.  I've tried Frost and Unholy, but Blood fits my play style too well to give up.

[Ginaz]

I've only recently started running the daily heroic again for the 2 badges and cash, but I must agree.  It's like a good number of people checked their brains at the door when they enter an instance.  I never chastise a DPS for doing less than the tank, but when you have mostly 232-245 PVE items and you are doing sub-1k DPS?  I tend to get annoyed, since that means I am doing most of the work in the instance and you are either incompetent or just cruising along.  I do admit that the decently geared warlock doing 300DPS the other day did get made fun of by the rest of the group and they didn't accept the "stuff dies too fast for me to DoT" excuse either.

I do get lots of "I'm running this for frosts, we're skipping everything possible" tanks which doesn't bother me too much, but there is usually A LOT of bitching from others regarding this.

I had a shaman last night that barely broke 700 dps, and was under that for most of the time.  Apparently he was enh. specced but was equipped with elemental items like caster daggers and he even used a shield and mace on one boss fight.  I congratulated him for increasing his dps by 10 after that one.

[Selby]

I've tried Frost and Unholy, but Blood fits my play style too well to give up.

This.  My DK DPSes as Unholy but tanks Blood.  I tried Frost and it wasn't any fun for me, I enjoy Blood tanking considerably more.

That said I still tank in Frost Presence =P

[Sjofn]

I rather like tanking as frost but I got a really-too-good-to-not-use 2h upgrade, so I switched to blood. I know it's partly because of my Gigantic Weapon Upgrade but my threat generation on bosses is way, way, way better than it was as frost. My AE threat isn't as exciting, alas.

I miss frost strike though. :(

[Lantyssa]

I couldn't get a weapon to drop.  I'm still using the Argent Tourney two-hander.

At least it's a pretty purple crystal.

[Sjofn]

Mine's the Saurfang Jr 2h axe, it has two blue gem slots and everything. D:

I just wish it wasn't an axe, then it would be perfect!

[Fordel]

Reroll Orc clearly!

[Shrike]

Need more 2h swords. Getting really tired of axes myself.

The best thing about DW is being a draenei DK. The weapons animations are my favorites. Sadly, it's the same one shaman had until we got the "new" SS animation, which doesn't do all that much for me, aside from the fact it's an accurate portrayel of the tooltip description.

I did more damage as DW frost dps, but I still prefer blood. More survivablity and a lot less hassle. As one other guild DK put it, it's a lazy DK's DK.

Edit: Oh, and just run Pit until your eyes bleed. I got both my Beheaders within a week of each other. Bad groups here are almost a rule, but it's a relatively easy instnace to tank if your dps has a clue and the healer actually shows up and doesn't phone it in. Better still, the tanking 1handers drop here, too, and there's always a chance of the battered hilt. It's worth the pain (though I won't set foot again in that place if I can help it).

[Lantyssa]

It's probably not going to happen due to a variety of factors.  I'll just wait for Cataclysm to show me with green weapons that blow mine out of the water.

[Sjofn]

Need more 2h swords. Getting really tired of axes myself.

It's 2h maces that I really hate, even though I'm human and get a little expertise with 'em. I just feel really dorky having a blunt weapon as a DK.

[Lantyssa]

All of their maces are hideously ugly, too.  "Hey, I know!  Let's take an ugly stick and make as garish as some of our other weapons, but keep it looking like an ugly stick!"