Bad Groups

[Rasix]

I did that too, but on Keristraza in Nexus.  Spinning chaos everywhere!  We managed to live, though, and the bear tank was really nice about it.   

A DK tank called me a "pussy fagot" when I told him army wasn't such a great idea on Devourer of Souls (killed the ret pally).

[Simond]

AotD is made for Dragon Roulette! 

[K9]

It seems that about 75% of the time I get PoS through the RDF on either healer I get a group that's halfway through, or where the healer has bailed for some reason.

Anyhow, get PoS on the shaman today, the second my zoning screen goes I see [Dungeon Guide]: <Random Paladin>: Rez me

That's it, no greeting, or please or anything, just 'rez me'. The others are running in so I decide to see what's up, run to the corpse and find that it's at the first patrolling Valkyr on the Protodrake. I switch specs and start drinking up.

"Rezz me!"
"Lets do this quick, rezz him"

I quit. Do the daily random on the priest and then log back over and do random for real on the shaman since the deserter debuff counts down while you are logged out. I really don't see what they were expecting. A group bad enough to wipe on the early PoS trash, who can't even manage basic pleasantries isn't worth the repair bills.

[Rasix]

Wanted to get my daily in.  It's late.  I'm praying for a short instance.  I get HCOS.  

Once it starts:

-Tank: "I don't know this place."
-Notice tank has low HP and half of their gear is DPS stuff.
-Rankwatch goes nanners on everything the tank (paladin) does.
-Tank is keyboard turning.  Can't even follow me to the pulls.

/bail
Feel bad about dropping a HCOS group know they're likely boned.. but seriously...  GYAAAHLKJLKDSJF.     Winning Falric's Wrist Chopper doesn't make you a tank.

[Sheepherder]

When I group with guildie DK's I usually attempt to coordinate popping army to get as massive an amount of ghouls on screen as possible.  I got 18 ghouls on the last boss of Gundrak.

[dd0029]

Anyhow, get PoS on the shaman today, the second my zoning screen goes I see [Dungeon Guide]: <Random Paladin>: Rez me


"Rezz me!"
"Lets do this quick, rezz him"

This is my biggest peeve.  If I am playing any of my healers and I wind up dead and have to run myself back, I expect everyone to run back.  I will not rez those people.  It's mildly irrational, but oh so many wipes in MC back in the day conditioned.  Reflex.

I actually had a 50DKP minus moment with it once on a Magtheridon raid once.   

[Rendakor]

Failure to release and whining about a rez is one (of MANY) things I will votekick bads for.

[Selby]

Failure to release and whining about a rez is one (of MANY) things I will votekick bads for.

I say "run your ass back" if anyone asks for a res after we wipe.  I'll sit there and wait too, or we'll go on without said jackass.

And any time I come in to an instance already half-way over, my first comment is "problems?" and wait to see what the responses are before venturing too far in.

[Minvaren]

First wipe for me ever in HCoS today.   

- party decides to do Zombiefest (I need it, so cool)
- first member leaves around wave 3
- second member leaves around wave 4
- DPS is sucking the entire time
- new member says he's going to leave when WG comes up
- people attack while I am pulling stuff for the achievement, meaning I only get 1/3rd of the mobs.  2 DPS wipe, I wipe, party wipes
- As we're prepping to try again, "new member" talks to Arthas and starts the next phase saying "I'm bored and achievements are meaningless" and somehow 3 party members carry on a conversation on the way to Mal'Ganis about the merits of PvP and shards versus achievements.  Before Mal'Ganis aggros, I ask, "How do you type while in combat?"  No replies.


More Badgers, anyways.

[Gobbeldygook]

Exception to 'rez please': If it's a lowbie instance like Maraudon, it is not worthwhile to tell people that haven't walked back before to release.  They will never find the entrance.  Just accept that you have to rez them.

[Selby]

Exception to 'rez please': If it's a lowbie instance like Maraudon, it is not worthwhile to tell people that haven't walked back before to release.  They will never find the entrance.

Completely different situation honestly.  Especially considering how horribly placed graveyards are for instances like that and Blood Furnace.

Although, it does make me wonder, how the fuck did people ever survive before the LFD tool since no one seems to know where the entrance to anything is?  Or are there just that many new people to WoW?

[Simond]

A lot of people just didn't bother with instances, it seems.

[Rasix]

I never did Occ before the LFD tool.  Before the LFD tool, almost all PUGs were organized through the trade channel (some through the Horde /raiders channel).   I haven't been in a guild (of more than 4 people) since my son was born.

[Lantyssa]

A lot of people just didn't bother with instances, it seems.

There is no one to do instances with.  I had to beg to get run through a couple before hitting 80 on my most recent.  I've been in something like two BC instances.

[Selby]

There is no one to do instances with.  I had to beg to get run through a couple before hitting 80 on my most recent.  I've been in something like two BC instances.

That is true.  Even back in vanilla WoW no one wanted to run BFD, Mara, or ST.  You had decent experience and quests to get in there, yet no one would do them so you were stuck grinding on mobs to get past the evil hurdles of the late 30's and early 50's when easily solo-able quests dried out.

I just got a great "bad" run.  My DK made 80 like, 5 hours ago.  I bought a bunch of BoE gear off the AH to qualify for heroics and since she's a tank, that's kind of what the gear is for.  No one is going to take a tank with 26k health and 530 Def anywhere though, so I just queue as DPS in my Unholy spec.  I do around 1500-1800, which for a new DK isn't horribly fail, but isn't stellar (especially since it's... tank gear).  I've run 7-8 instances with no issues so far, and tonight we get AN.  Easy 10 minute instance.  Right before the last boss, a warlock says "/sigh, fail DPS is fail DPS" to which the hunter and I respond "that's us all right!" since we're both hovering around the 1700 mark.  We're both in ilvl 200 blues and this guy is pulling almost 6k DPS, complaining about the rest of us.  Yet, no one has died, the tank held aggro fine, and in general no stupidity or dumbassery has gone on, which I consider a pretty successful run.  And he proceeds to critique both of us and how we should be doing at least 2k DPS no matter how fresh our 80's are.  I told him to inspect my gear if he gave that much of a damn and get back to me with suggestions and never heard another thing =P

[Merusk]

  No one is going to take a tank with 26k health and 530 Def anywhere though, so I just queue as DPS in my Unholy spec. 

If you use the LFD tool, they have no choice. DPS is easy to require, and even Healers seem to be in plenty anymore.  My healer is starting to get queues of 3-5 mins, and if I choose DPS as my DK they're hitting 20+mins.  Tank is still instant pop.  I had your stats when I began tanking on my Pally, and only two have been pissy enough to dump me after the wait period.  One group I pissed off on purpose, the other seemed to think it was me that was the reason things weren't dying fast enough.  Go fig.

[Selby]

If you use the LFD tool, they have no choice.

Yeah my guild dragged me into TotC-10 and Ony-10 tonight and I finally made 538 and 27k health un-buffed, so now I can force people to let me tank for them and they can like it!

[Rasix]

All that really matters is that you're not an idiot.  Ran a HPOS with a well geared (for the instance) paladin that just plain sucked.  He got people killed left and right.  His threat generation would just bottom out at times and couldn't for the life of him hold threat on more than one mob at a time.  

Very rarely is anyone in here going to generate the horror stories. We're not the DK pulling 500 DPS and still working on his weapon skill.  

I wouldn't advocate a free pass to forcing people to live through your taking if you're honestly bad at it.  True, dps is a dime a dozen, but after I bugger off to go play ME2 or read, you may get stuck with the 71 point affliction warlock that does less damage than a holy priest wanding.

[Selby]

I wouldn't advocate a free pass to forcing people to live through your taking if you're honestly bad at it.

I'm really good at tanking with my warrior, and decent with the DK.  Occasionally threat is an issue, but not often.  Most of the problems I get are DPS bitching about how I'm not chain pulling to their likeness and we aren't beating the 15m timer to finish UP or UK.

[Paelos]

I wouldn't advocate a free pass to forcing people to live through your taking if you're honestly bad at it.

I'm really good at tanking with my warrior...

Don't worry, nobody is anymore in multi-tank-world

[Lt.Dan]

I had a HoS group last night where we raced through the instance until we got to the Lunar Festval NPC.  The tank and one of the DPS talk to the NPC then drop the group.  We requeue and get a new tank and a mage.  "Hai guys I'm dual boxing so I'm going to tow my mage - you don't need his dps cos i'm awesome" and sure enough the mage just autofollowed another DPS.  Needless to say the group imploded shortly thereafter when we did need his dps on Brann.

In AN we raced through to the second boss and were pulling the trash.  Somehow we get all three trash packs at the same time and wipe.  Tank drops group and we get a replacement who greeted us "lol this group is fail.  Only 3.5k gs you guys suck." then proceeded a votekick for my guildie.  Didn't stick around to see how it turned out.

[ezrast]

All this talk of people expecting near-current raid gear on heroics baffles me. Have people really forgotten that the original point of heroics was to gear people up for Naxx? As in, anyone in full ilvl 200 is overgeared?

Used to be 2k hp was too low for a tank, 2.2 was could-be-trouble territory, and you thanked your lucky stars if they had over 2.4.

Kind of makes me afraid of trying to gear up when my shaman hits 80. But then, Sargeras seems to have a vocal "gearscore is stoopid" segment of the population so maybe it won't be so bad.

[kildorn]

All this talk of people expecting near-current raid gear on heroics baffles me. Have people really forgotten that the original point of heroics was to gear people up for Naxx? As in, anyone in full ilvl 200 is overgeared?

Used to be 2k hp was too low for a tank, 2.2 was could-be-trouble territory, and you thanked your lucky stars if they had over 2.4.

Kind of makes me afraid of trying to gear up when my shaman hits 80. But then, Sargeras seems to have a vocal "gearscore is stoopid" segment of the population so maybe it won't be so bad.

It's people wanting to be lazy for badges. A 35-40k hp tank means you can pretty much be completely braindead and still chainpull. A 25k hp tank means dps needs to watch thread, healer needs to be on top of their game, and generally you can't faceroll most of the heroics. That's what they hate. I'm not agreeing with them, just saying that's why "lol need 5k GS for H-CoS" happens. Nothing to do with the difficulty of the instance, everything to do with people being goddamned lazy. I was happy when I healed some pallytank through her first heroic. It was a little harder than normal at times, but uh, suck it up princesses.

[Selby]

It's people wanting to be lazy for badges.

It is.  I had a HoL run with my DK who now has at least 31k health buffed, and no one was single targeting mobs down.  All kinds of AoE, 3 DPS all attacking 3 different targets, taking aggro from me several times.  Luckily they were geared enough to kill things quickly, but it gets stressful when you see "changes target" and a mob goes dashing off for a cloth wearer.

I also had considerably stupid hunters along in several other runs.  We'd kill the mobs, the hunter would multi-shot into the next pack to bring it over.  While I handled it, it sure annoyed the hell out of me because he did it 4-5 different times.  I did let one mob go to him and beat on him a while to punish him.

[Minvaren]

I also had considerably stupid hunters along in several other runs.

After my limited time in dungeons, I am beginning to understand the etymology of the word "huntard."   

[Rasix]

/facepalm

Got this winner in a HPOS group (not sure how he got in with his overal gear level, I wouldn't have been able to queue with that).  Incase the retard actually does land a 2 hander.. he's rocking that spec with a 1hander and no offhand.

Bad night trying to get a competent HPOS group.  First time the tank was REALLY slow and it took him like 5 minutes before he even started pulling and his threat generation was nonexistant even with ToT.   His movements were like stutters here and there and was turning at a glacial pace.

"I don't mean to be rude, but are you on the phone or something?"
"No, I'm just bad."
Tank quits.

Second group.  Had the previously mentioned DK and a tank that had ever been in the place before.  I didn't see him making it through the packs of trash before Scourgelord and he was having a hard enough time just pulling in the direction we pointed him in.  But really, the DK struck a nerve and I just bailed.  Plus, he was giving the warrior shit about being under geared like he had room to talk in that regard.

[kildorn]

/facepalm

What the HELL is that. 

[Cadaverine]

/facepalm

What the HELL is that. 

Based of his Reputation scores, or lack thereof, I'm guessing he pvp'd his way to 80.  Well, queued for pvp in AV repeatedly.  I'm doubting he was of any use to his team.  Maybe helpful to the opposing side.

[Rasix]

It's definitely newbie tank week.  In AN, "Hey who pulled?" "Blizzard did, moron."

Burning through them like nothing at all.  Not getting a lot of instances done, but I am amassing a rather formiddable ignore list and getting some good holiday achievements done.

edit: Only decent tanks I'm running across are warriors lately.  The good paladin tanks I suppose are already done collecting marks.

[apocrypha]

Paladin tank in Heroic AN the other day started bitching about how low the DPS was. I was doing 5.5k, the other two were doing 3-3.5k.

I take offence at this rampant elitism and proceed to disagree with him, pointing out that it's hAN, not ICC. Argument continues for a while with him having nothing to offer except "low dps is low". In short order we get to Anub and tank doesn't go into the ring. He's decided he wants to votekick me because 5.5k dps isn't good enough for AN and he didn't like me calling him an elitist arsehole, but he's got to wait another 8 minutes before it will let him initiate a vote.

He stands there, waiting. We don't have anyone else who could tank so there's nothing we can do. 8 minutes expires. Vote to kick me fails. Vote to kick tank (not started by me) passes. New tank arrives *instantly* and 1 minute later we're done 

[Merusk]

It's definitely newbie tank week.  In AN, "Hey who pulled?" "Blizzard did, moron."

Burning through them like nothing at all.  Not getting a lot of instances done, but I am amassing a rather formiddable ignore list and getting some good holiday achievements done.

edit: Only decent tanks I'm running across are warriors lately.  The good paladin tanks I suppose are already done collecting marks.

Our guild's main pally tank rolled a warrior and just started gearing it up. He says they tank better and hold threat better than his pally did.  I'm at a loss for words on that, but hey it's an anecdote that supports your position AND explains why all the good tanks are Wars.   

[Dren]

I can see where Pally tanks are mostly done with random farming.  I only had to do it for maybe 3-4 days straight to basically cap out my gear to max Triumph or lower gear.  Now, I just do my once daily for the frosties.

I have no issues with threat at that level of gear until I get dps at 5.5k or higher.  At that point though, things die too quickly for me to care much.  Once in awhile I have to actually directly taunt things off of the highest dps, but that is worth it if they get the instance done quicker.

My biggest problem lately with all the higher dps is maintaining mana.  MOBs drop so damn fast, I don't have a chance to gain back mana from my judgements.  Divine Plea works, but I was so used to not even needing it before.  Now, it is in my normal rotation.

[Minvaren]

edit: Only decent tanks I'm running across are warriors lately.  The good paladin tanks I suppose are already done collecting marks.

Our guild's main pally tank rolled a warrior and just started gearing it up. He says they tank better and hold threat better than his pally did.  I'm at a loss for words on that, but hey it's an anecdote that supports your position AND explains why all the good tanks are Wars.   

There's been some speculation that the 3.3.2 shield slam/devastate changes have put warriors over-the-top in terms of threat.  It has been much easier for me to keep a group lassoed at since the patch, I'll admit, but it's still a PITA when the ($impatient_nontank) decides they're pulling instead because I stopped to loot.  Ah well, they can take a few smacks while I catch up to everyone.

...but the next twit who pops Keristrasza while the group is dealing with the caster in her room is going to tank her, I swear.

[Ingmar]

There's been some speculation that the 3.3.2 shield slam/devastate changes have put warriors over-the-top in terms of threat. 

It isn't speculation, post-shield slam change I'm getting spikes of over 11k tps on single targets raid-buffed, I wasn't near that before.

[bhodi]

In general, warriors are at the bottom of the tanking barrel right now in 25man end-game raiding. This is because druids have a fuckton of HP and avoidance and paladins have a get-out-of-jail-free ability that prevents them from dying.

Both are much more important than a marginal threat increase; people stopped enchanting their gear for +threat a long time ago.