Bad Groups

[Sheepherder]

Again, as long as you're not obviously screwing the pooch and she dies in a reasonably efficient manner, it's all good. Blatant slackers and underperformers are always annoying

I'm always conflicted on the appropriate time to rage right the fuck out on people.  Generally when they die to the very first stage one cleave twice in a row it's a good sign though.

[Vision]

I grouped with a pally who was a member of a raiding guild my guild at the time was merging with. We were running UD Strat and he decides to constantly spam consecration. Me being the tank, my group gets pissed and tells him to stop fucking things up. He wipes us, but due to him being a future guild member, i bite my tongue. Eventually we get into it, he talks shit about me to his guild, lies to my guild masters about me slandering them, and gets me blacklisted.

And I didn't get shit from the instance.

[apocrypha]

Random PoS group this morning, something seemed off, the tank and 2 others were being really shit. Body-pulling extra packs, not waiting for me to drink afterwards, really playing very poorly (Baluu was the tank).

[Fordel]

I enjoy how the AFK school kids outnumbered you and prevented the votekick 

[apocrypha]

I know! I felt out of place, I left them to it 

[Shrike]

So far, three random groups, no drama or hassles. I'm ahead of the curve. None had another Whisperwind denizen in it. Not sure what that says, but there it is.

I suspect karma is waiting for me around a blind corner with a baseball bat. With a nail in it. A rusty nail.

[JWIV]

I've had pretty solid groups for the most part.  Though last night I did run into someone ninja'ing the frozen orb (need roll after everyone had greeded it).

[Ashamanchill]

I've had pretty solid groups for the most part.  Though last night I did run into someone ninja'ing the frozen orb (need roll after everyone had greeded it).

Lol he's probably from my server (US Stonemaul). We've been needing on Frozen Orbs since they came out, we just assumed everyone else did too. Now it's become a sort of server pride issue. I've actually stopped, because now that frozen orbs are worth just over the vendor price, whats the point?

[Rasix]

Yah.  We had a need roll on a frozen orb last night. Guy admitted it was a mistake.  I just shrugged it off. 

Only need roll wonkery I've seen is typical shit.  "Mind if I need for my offspec?" after someone rolling for their obvious main spec has already hit need.  Grow a brain.

[dd0029]

I noticed a serious uptick in DPS queue times last night, went from 6 minute to an 11 minute queue.  I don't know if it was a factor of reset day or perhaps people dropping out after completing their achievements.  I am getting a bit bored with the rotation though.  I seem to have a better than even chance of getting stone or lightning.  I've only seen UK once and DTK twice.  Gundrak seems to be the instance of choice for the system of my lowest geared groups.  

I have more orbs than I know what to do with.  And I have dream shards coming out of my ears.  I want more essences.  

[March]

Yah.  We had a need roll on a frozen orb last night. Guy admitted it was a mistake.  I just shrugged it off. 

Only need roll wonkery I've seen is typical shit.  "Mind if I need for my offspec?" after someone rolling for their obvious main spec has already hit need.  Grow a brain.

Hmmn, I think this is an increasing grey area.  With dual spec and random queuing I don't have a problem with folks rolling need on upgrades to either spec.

Since 3.3 went live, I've queued every night as Heal/DPS... one of these days I'll get a dungeon as DPS.

Now, one could say... "only queue as DPS if you want DPS gear" and that would be rational... but I don't think it would make the game more fun.  I recognize that some of the pure classes have fewer roles and therefore fewer options for loot, which makes each piece that much more important per roll; but by the same token, they have 1/2 as many slots to fill as those of us who are willing to go support for the greater good.

I can see both sides of the argument, but my own bias has always been in favor of open looting vs. preferential treatment.  An upgrade is an upgrade and your contribution to the success of the dungeon is not more important than my contribution.  It is also one of the reasons that I simply prefer badges - you get a badge, I get a badge we buy what we want.

[Khaldun]

I had my only bad experience last night with a tank who entered Nexus and proceeded to run straight to the first boss without stopping, pulling every single thing on the way and then kept going to pull all six groups in the boss room and *then* whined when we took down everything anyway except for the boss and two mobs before dying. "U SUK, KEEP UP", and he quit the group. We just requeued and got a new tank in about 2 minutes.

[AutomaticZen]

Groups have been smooth so far.

Yah.  We had a need roll on a frozen orb last night. Guy admitted it was a mistake.  I just shrugged it off. 

See on Eredar (having discussed with a number of same-server randoms) server etiquette is to roll Need of the Frozen orbs.  Never even thought about it until someone in a pug pointed it out.  I just had them reroll and was going to trade to the winner (didn't have to because it was me again).  Since then, I watch to see what everyone else does and then I pick.  Greed does seem to be the way on other servers.

I literally don't pay attention to drops in heroic.  Outside of need on Orbs, I DE (if available) or Greed everything.

[El Gallo]

Yah.  We had a need roll on a frozen orb last night. Guy admitted it was a mistake.  I just shrugged it off. 

Only need roll wonkery I've seen is typical shit.  "Mind if I need for my offspec?" after someone rolling for their obvious main spec has already hit need.  Grow a brain.

I'd rather see something go to an offspec than getting disenchanted or vendored.  But my understanding of the system is that "greed" and "disenchant" are equal priority. They should have some intermediate category (want? offspec?) for this (they can put "it's an upgrade that I'd love to roll need on but Blizzard's system won't let me because the item isn't my preferred armor type).

[Zetor]

Yeah, on Crushridge-US pugs used to roll need on orbs. However, with the addition of the 3.3 LFG system people are slowly starting to roll greed instead; personally I just wait until everyone else rolls and roll greed if they all rolled greed as well.

I have noticed a slight increase in queue time for all non-tank characters, actually; even my priest had to wait for 2 minutes (oh noes! the world is ending) and if I queue as dps, I might as well check the AH or do a daily or two. My druid tank's getting instant queues still, though.

(Also, is it just me, or are disc priest super-uber for the new instances? Shields to mitigate the 'omg incoming burst' abilities and cheat the "thou shalt not heal" debuff, shackles, more shields to keep everyone alive easily even if they get aggro from the ghosts in HoR, magic dispel against that 6 sec stun (that must be so fun as a shaman) and some other nasty stuff... the only thing I was missing when I pugged through the new heroics was some kind of decurse, but you can't get everything!)

[JWIV]

Yah.  We had a need roll on a frozen orb last night. Guy admitted it was a mistake.  I just shrugged it off. 

Only need roll wonkery I've seen is typical shit.  "Mind if I need for my offspec?" after someone rolling for their obvious main spec has already hit need.  Grow a brain.

Hmmn, I think this is an increasing grey area.  With dual spec and random queuing I don't have a problem with folks rolling need on upgrades to either spec.

Since 3.3 went live, I've queued every night as Heal/DPS... one of these days I'll get a dungeon as DPS.

Now, one could say... "only queue as DPS if you want DPS gear" and that would be rational... but I don't think it would make the game more fun.  I recognize that some of the pure classes have fewer roles and therefore fewer options for loot, which makes each piece that much more important per roll; but by the same token, they have 1/2 as many slots to fill as those of us who are willing to go support for the greater good.

I can see both sides of the argument, but my own bias has always been in favor of open looting vs. preferential treatment.  An upgrade is an upgrade and your contribution to the success of the dungeon is not more important than my contribution.  It is also one of the reasons that I simply prefer badges - you get a badge, I get a badge we buy what we want.

I'm being relatively shameless about gearing up both my DPS and my Tank spec on my warrior, mostly because my tank gear was so out of date (my guild usually wants me healing) that trying to tank anything would have been bloody well awful for everyone involved.  So I figured I'd tag along as DPS since it wasn't quite so awful and slowly gear up both.  That said, if I was in as DPS and the guy actually doing tank duty rolled need on something, I'd give it to him.  I just will be damned if I lost an upgrade to someone disenchanting/greeding it.

[Ingmar]

cheat the "thou shalt not heal" debuff

We determined that it was just easier to ignore this debuff and heal him a little (DPS still stops when they get the debuff of course.)

[Merusk]

I'm still struggling to find out WHY folks are Needing on the orbs, or even want to loot them.  I've given away more than I've sold or used in the last few months.  I still have 4 rotting on the bank character, in fact.

Where are these mystical servers that still use the entry-level crafting mats in such a great quantity?

[Fordel]

The very populated servers always have a demand and the very underpopulated ones never had a supply really.

[Ingmar]

I'm still struggling to find out WHY folks are Needing on the orbs, or even want to loot them.  I've given away more than I've sold or used in the last few months.  I still have 4 rotting on the bank character, in fact.

Where are these mystical servers that still use the entry-level crafting mats in such a great quantity?

JCs use one per day to make their free gem thing, which can result in epics (and/or dragon's eyes).

[Sjofn]

LW needs 'em to make leg thingers too.

[Selby]

Where are these mystical servers that still use the entry-level crafting mats in such a great quantity?

It's odd.  I've got 5 stacks of them across 3 different characters.  I have never used one for anything.  But most of the PUGs I have been in, everyone rolls greed.  Except last night, on 3 different occasions someone waited until all 4 of us had rolled greed and rolled a need followed by "thanks, see ya" and left.  I personally don't care, but it seems pretty selfish and shitty (oh, anonymity on the internet makes people assholes?).

[apocrypha]

It seems to be mixed in my battlegroup - some servers have always rolled Need, some (like mine) have always rolled Greed. They're so cheap now that it doesn't matter any more but I now say upon entering the dungeon "All roll Need on orb at the end" and it avoids any confusion.

Pretty much the same with heroic loot drops. It's so fast and easy to get groups for heroics now (much faster & easier than normal dungeons in fact) that Needing for off-spec is very *shrug* whatever. Miss a bit of loot you want? You can run that dungeon again 3 times in one evening if you want, so who cares really.

Personally I just want drama-free groups.

Oh and I want groups to stop wiping at the exact same places every time, like the top of the steps before the mushroom boss in OK. Pulling 2-3 groups there = wipe yet people still keep doing it... and still keep standing in the bloody flamestrike 

[Merusk]

Having been part of a wipe there in a group of Ulduar/ TOC geared guildies, I'll say that it can be a tricky pull.   The aggro radius on the two groups at the bottom is pretty decent, and if the pathing caster stands in the wrong spot to blow a spell at you, he'll pull them both.   Ditto if you try to Death Grip, Counterspell or otherwise pull them when they're anywhere near those groups.    I don't think I've ever been in a group that hasn't pulled at least the pat and one other cluster.

[apocrypha]

Totally agree, it's a nasty little spot. This is why I've taken to saying before we get there "careful here, pull to top of steps". Still get ignored by the new breed of psycho tanks half the time 

[Soulflame]

First boss in Gundrak makes me sad as a 77 druid in a PUG.  I invariably end up dying.

[Morfiend]

I would just like to say, if you are a tank, and havent done the 3 new ICC dungeons yet. Please dont jump in to a pug heroic for your first time. Do normal a few times first. Ok thanks.

[Ingmar]

I'm now 0-for-4 in doing Violet Hold on my 76 mage in PUGs. Every other thing I've done on any character has gone fine, but I'm somehow cursed in VH on that guy. I have yet to have a tank in there who actually knows what any of the bosses do - and of course there's little time to explain them because you don't know what is going to spawn right off the bat. 3 times the run has ended with a wipe on the 2nd boss, and half the group drops because, well, there's no point in rerunning the first 12 portals without loot from the first boss when there's no lockout. Getting annoyed to the point where I may just level him to 78 to dodge that bullet (assuming it won't just send me there anyway.)

[Soulflame]

I had a wipe in VH w/druid on boss number two, we re-ran the first 12 waves, and the first boss did drop loot again.  I was pleasantly surprised.  So far I haven't experienced utter failure in VH, but I'm sure it's coming.

HoS was fairly easy, although the PUG tried to make it harder by pulling multiple packs, plus the rogue who loved aggro.  The final boss was completely  , we nearly wiped.  I have no idea what I could have done differently.  The debuff stacked, the damage went WHEE, and I simply couldn't keep up.

[Merusk]

My first group as a DPS yesterday was ToC. "Cool" I thought, easy run.

Yeah, no.   Two of the DPS and the healer died during the joust part.  They then sat there without releasing as the tank and I chewed through the waves until the faction bosses.  I commented, "Y'know, you can release and run back in."   

The response "Nah, I don't want to die again, I'll just wait until you kill them."

I dismounted and disbanded and ran dailies for the next 12 mins.  Seriously, wtf.

[Lt.Dan]

I normally tough out bad groups till the end but I wound up quitting my first ever yesterday.  It was normal Underbog and I'm a resto druid healing away.  I've done the instance a handful of times in the last couple of days and it's a rare occassion when my HoTs can't keep up with damage on the tank. 

Anyway, on the first pull the tank's health plummets to abouto 50% before I get a rejuv on him.  "That's odd" I think to myself, I probably wasn't paying attention.

Second pull same thing happens.  No worries, we're still moving through although I'm having to throw out a few normal heals as well as refresh HoTs.

First boss and the tank's health gets to 25% and I'm really struggling to keep it there.  Burn Tranquility, popping all the HoTs everytime they're off cooldown.  Not helped by the tank standing in the green stuff and we lose a couple of DPS but finally down the boss.

Hmmm I think, inspecting the Tank.  Turns out half his gear is leather and all his gear is +int gear so I say "You're wearing some leather and +int gear there - might want to put on your tanking set".  He says "Nah, check my spec" which I do....ahhh the old tri-spec uber talent build.  That explains a lot. /leave

[Rasix]

Had my first unsuccessful pug yesterday.  Doing Gundrak with a paladin tank, paladin healer, me (warlock), a hunter and another DPS.   We do some of the first pulls and I notice I'm pulling aggro pretty quick after conflag.  The hunter is pulling aggro the second he opens fire.

We do the first boss.  First attempt is a wipe, he can't hold the boss at all.  The healer can't keep up with it.  Second attempt we get him down, but two of the DPS eat it.  I actually see people get snake wrapped.  Each attempt I had to soulshatter after my first chaos bolt as the boss beelines toward me.

Then the next set of pulls.  The hunter eats a quick death as somehow his multishot (or volley, I forget) pulls almost the entire pack on him.  I die in the same pull after the paladin can't keep me up and the tank and apparently just casting spells means I pull aggro.

This is possibly the first time I've ever quit a group with somewhat of a nerdrage moment.  "You're terrible at this" as I drop.  The healer, from my realm, thought I meant them and sent tells.  Apparently, the tank had really bad gear. But enough that he was at 33K hp unbuffed, which similar HP tanks have kept my ass spotless.   My gear really isn't that good; I'm still wearing 3 piece of PVP gear and I still have a good amount of ilvl 200.  Heh, maybe a rogue was TOT griefing us or something, I've never seen a tank that inept at holding aggro.

Heh, as I type this, I just did a 15 minute Gundrak.  

edit: On a related note, can I please stop getting Old Kingdom.  jesus. h.

[Rasix]

Notice to people getting HVH.  Stop wanking it and get in front of the door. Thank you.

[apocrypha]

I'm seeing a lot of tanks with lot of HP (30-40k) but no defence and no ability to hold agro. I think a lot of them are just gearing for stamina and forgetting avoidance and mitigation totally because when you look at the group all you see at a quick glance is HP.

Trying to heal a 40k HP tank who gets crit every pull and does nothing to pull mobs off the healers and DPS is no fun at all!

As for the "getting the same dungeons over and over again" thing that's happening to me too - OK and HoL particularly. I think it's the gearscore thing. If I do dungeons very early in the morning I get much more variety so I think it tries to put you in a gear-appropriate dungeon at first and then gives up and goes "Ahhh sod it, you can overgear a DTK group".

[Sheepherder]

If you have 30k health and can't keep aggro it's not your gear.  You cannot get that much health without having at least 1k strength.  They're just bad, likely completely situationally oblivious, possibly also reaction time that can be described as "stunned."