Bad Groups

[Morat20]

Deadmines and Blackfathom Deeps too.

Good times. :)

I actually took my 69 Hunter to Blackfathom. Post patch lag was so horrendous that I didn't dare do anything risky, so I ran Brewfest then headed to Blackfathom because I wanted to tame the elite turtle in there. I suppose any turtle would have done, but I was feeling nostalgic.

I killed that damn murloc for good measure. Then I hearthstoned, and ran around Blackfathom for another 8 minutes before the hearthstone actually took effect. Damn lag.

[dd0029]

 Pro-tip, at least FUCKING SWING AT IT.

I had one guy last night in UK that kept walking near groups and aggro pulling them.  He would then proceed to type very slowly about increased aggro ranges instead of tanking said pulled mobs.  Hooray for chain heal.

[Merusk]

He is an unguilded dps death knight named 'bonecarver'.  Sound sketchy?  Wait'll you see his armory.

http://www.wowarmory.com/character-sheet.xml?r=The+Venture+Co&n=Bonecarver

Notice:

-The caster DPS trinket
-The mixture of tank and dps gear
-The PVP gear (take particular note of the  +4 to all stats in his WG boots)
-Assuming I understand DKs, his serious lack of +hit
-The mostly DPS talents with a few random points in tank talents.

When I called him on it at the start of the instance(UP), he replied that his spec was about 'big dcs'.  Naturally, he was substantially below me, the tank, on the overall damage meters and didn't beat me by much on the bosses.  In a crowning moment of retardation, he attempted to death grip the last boss to himself.

Edit: True to his word, he played the original (it was something like 5/8/blah) by just spamming the shit out of death coil, his damage done went white damage -> death coil -> diseases.  He is now wearing full dps gear with an amazingly terrible 50/21/0 spec.  I'm severely tempted to group with him again, on purpose, just to see how he plays this new spec.

 

He's got low hit for ANYONE, never mind a DK.  He's below the hit cap just for special melee attacks and 11% or so below the spell cap.. which is kind of important if you're focusing on Death Coil as it's a goddamn spell.

I don't even know where to begin on his spec.  I think he's trying for some bastardization of a Blood survival/ tanking spec but then I look at it again and, well. No.   If he's still trying to max DC damage, then he's skipped so many RP generation abilities and fucking Sudden Doom that I can't call him anything but retarded.

[Jayce]

He's got low hit for ANYONE, never mind a DK.  He's below the hit cap just for special melee attacks and 11% or so below the spell cap.. which is kind of important if you're focusing on Death Coil as it's a goddamn spell.

I don't even know where to begin on his spec.  I think he's trying for some bastardization of a Blood survival/ tanking spec but then I look at it again and, well. No.   If he's still trying to max DC damage, then he's skipped so many RP generation abilities and fucking Sudden Doom that I can't call him anything but retarded.

His gear might be good if he pulled into three different sets, or maybe four.  He's got reslience, dodge, strength and crit on different pieces.  It's like he's trying to assemble a tanking/dps/pvp set.

[Shrike]

Looks to me like he's just scrounging for anything that happens to be purple. Just for it's own sake, don't you know.

Regardless of why, his dps has to suck and suck bigtime. Sadly, this is pretty much SOP for DKs, especially the DW fobbits.

[Rasix]

This occurence was just too good not to share:

A few days ago I do a Heroic VH and notice immediately that the tank is someone people have been bitching about on the boards.  Well, we down the first two bosses, and we got easy ones so that wasn't too unexpected.  He was slow to find the portals (keyboard turning wasn't helping him), bad at holding aggro and couldn't figure out how to gather some of the dragonkin packs.  We were surviving and honestly the weak link was probaby the feral doing 1100 dps.

Then out of the blue, in the middle of fighting a single, the paladin healer just drops dead.  Turns out, after later inspection, that he DI'd someone.  Feral is slow to react and we die on the inevitable dragonkin pack that follows. 

I take partial responsibility, because I didn't use a soulstone.  But honestly, you wipe in VH and it's a done deal, and who expects the healer to pop off of trash like that.  How does one even have their UI configured where accidentally DI'ing someone is a possibility.

[Selby]

Then out of the blue, in the middle of fighting a single, the paladin healer just drops dead.  Turns out, after later inspection, that he DI'd someone.  Feral is slow to react and we die on the inevitable dragonkin pack that follows. 

I'm sorry, that's just hysterical.  Who even has that ability hot-keyed?

[Merusk]

I did when I was a healing pally.  It wasn't a simple one click key, though.

Blessing of Protection  was, though.. and I wiped a group once by clicking on the tank and it's key instead of freedom.  Whoops.

[Malakili]

I did when I was a healing pally.  It wasn't a simple one click key, though.

Blessing of Protection  was, though.. and I wiped a group once by clicking on the tank and it's key instead of freedom.  Whoops.

I think part of the problem with pugs is that is the only experience you have with the person.  If you did that and you were a pug, basically everyone would think you were an idiot.  But if  you are playing with guildies you've (possibly) known for years, and he does that, well, its just a mistake that they barely ever make and they hit the wrong key.

If its a guild mate, I just sigh and run back, if its a pug, it may be enough to make me ragequit the group.

[Rasix]

If its a guild mate, I just sigh and run back, if its a pug, it may be enough to make me ragequit the group.

It made the lone competent DPS other than myself ragequit and the group fell apart.  Who wants to come in for a 1 badge HVH? Heh.

As for guildies, I can fondly remember a Kara run back in TBC where a priest hearthed when she was attempting to rez someone.  She promptly moved her hearth to a different spot on her button bars.  She got shit for that well into Northrend.  

Gal was a guild killer on her own. But that's a different story.  

[Sjofn]

I have DI on my paladin bars but it's off where there is no way I would do it accidentally. Which means the few times I would actually want to use it, I lose time trying to remember where the fuck it is. 

[Sheepherder]

71 Tanks with 12k health that stand in Ingvar's Smash are super.

[Zetor]

But that's how they get rage! 

My favorite wotlk pug story so far involves a warlock during an utgarde pinnacle run; he did about 500 dps, and need rolled everything including the "on melee or ranged attack you can proc X damage" trinket from ymiron (vestige of xxx). When the hunter outrolled him, he broke out in a tantrum, spamming 'NINJA' and various obscenities in party chat for about 20 seconds.

[Fordel]

71 Tanks with 12k health that stand in Ingvar's Smash are super.

The Trick is to be a Prot Paladin when doing that.

[Selby]

My favorite wotlk pug story so far involves a warlock during an utgarde pinnacle run; he did about 500 dps, and need rolled everything including the "on melee or ranged attack you can proc X damage" trinket from ymiron (vestige of xxx). When the hunter outrolled him, he broke out in a tantrum, spamming 'NINJA' and various obscenities in party chat for about 20 seconds.

I kick people for that from my parties.  And no, a DPS of 500 does not require someone coming in to take their spot.  The instance continues as if nothing had happened, minus one idiot.

[Sheepherder]

I think I'm to the point where the primary enjoyment I get from pugs is sampling all the various flavours of bad.

[Selby]

I think I'm to the point where the primary enjoyment I get from pugs is sampling all the various flavours of bad.

I do enjoy that.  It's fun to see how bad some people are.  Like this Boomkin that kept blowing the mobs away from the pally tank and was causing threat issues with mobs running around.  He thought it was funny and no one else in the group said a word to him about it.

[dd0029]

Has anyone noticed that whomever it is telling Ick what to do in Pit of Saron has some thrilling evil overlord level stuff going on?  He tells you what he is about to do each time he starts something and even suggests how to get away from it?  Turns out my group this evening could not figure that shit out.  Poison Nova apparently means stand there right the fuck by the boss.  Little red riding hood?  Also, stand there right by the boss.  Purple bombs?  Find as many as you can.  About the only thing they got right was to not stand in the green shit.

[SurfD]

Has anyone noticed that whomever it is telling Ick what to do in Pit of Saron has some thrilling evil overlord level stuff going on?  He tells you what he is about to do each time he starts something and even suggests how to get away from it?  Turns out my group this evening could not figure that shit out.  Poison Nova apparently means stand there right the fuck by the boss.  Little red riding hood?  Also, stand there right by the boss.  Purple bombs?  Find as many as you can.  About the only thing they got right was to not stand in the green shit.

That would be Krick.  A gnome that is riding on Ick's shoulders.  I am still waiting for the video edit of a Krick + Ick conversation with the Lich King, where Krick threatens Arthas with a Saronite Embargo.  "Who Run Ice Crown?  Louder!"

I had about the same experience with that fight the first time i did the Pit with a random 4 person pickup group.  Wiped about 5 times to Ick after one shotting everything else in Forge / Pit because people just could not handle moving away from bad stuff.   Best part?  Watching Ranged DPS like mages and hunters stand there and die to Poison Nova.   I mean, honestly, you would think by now that most people who play WoW would at least have the basic concept that it is BAD to stand next to a boss casting ANYTHING with the word "Nova" in it's name.  I can maybe understand that from a healer when the attack isn't telegraphed and they are busy healing tanks and whatnot, but any DPS who plays the game without cast bars turned on for targets deserves the repair bill.   Our Druid healer also thought that standing still while being persued was a good idea (appearently a bigass hunters mark over your head and the boss slowly traveling nearly 20 yards to kill you was too much to cope with).

[Gobbeldygook]

I've had a generally hot/warm experience with PUGs.  I got less-rabi on Tuesday on my warrior in a stone-cold pug.  I got the 'no one hit by icicles' achievement in the new 5-man with a total pug.

My only bad experience so far has been a tank who was so slow and terrible that we just started pulling stuff Nexus without him.  At first we had the hunter's pet tank it, then our rogue had the brilliant insight that he could just use tricks of the trade on the tank, run to the next pull, tricks it to him, and run back.  Since a tank's mitigation isn't meaningfully different whether he's actually paying attention or not, we cleared a number of packs like that before the tank finally got pissed off and left.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I've had a generally hot/warm experience with PUGs.  I got less-rabi on Tuesday on my warrior in a stone-cold pug.  I got the 'no one hit by icicles' achievement in the new 5-man with a total pug.

My only bad experience so far has been a tank who was so slow and terrible that we just started pulling stuff Nexus without him.  At first we had the hunter's pet tank it, then our rogue had the brilliant insight that he could just use tricks of the trade on the tank, run to the next pull, tricks it to him, and run back.  Since a tank's mitigation isn't meaningfully different whether he's actually paying attention or not, we cleared a number of packs like that before the tank finally got pissed off and left.

can just vote to kick people now too.

[Soulflame]

Gobbeldygook is definitely of the "poke them until they lash out, then make fun of them" persuasion.

 

I've done the completely random PUG once on the paladin, got HHoS, cleared it pretty fast.  The only annoyance was we had a mage drop after downing the first boss, which put us back into the queue.  The concencus was that he wanted one emblem, and then bailed after getting it.

Tried it on the 74 druid, got DTK.  It didn't go entirely smoothly (tank didn't do very good pickups on the mobs the second boss summons, so I had to drag them to him, and this LOS'd me from the people in the stairs, which led to the dps dk dying, he left, went back into the queue, got two more dps, they were ported in, ran to where we were, and downed the boss.  cool_story_bro.jpg goes here.)  After that, we managed to clear the rest of it fairly quickly.

I'm also left a little baffled as to why people hate on lifebloom.  Admittedly, the bloom itself isn't something you can easily control, the scaling is not as good as other spells, but it is something to do with GCDs that puts up yet another hot, and one that returns mana to boot.  I'll probably change my mind once I get nourish though.

[Ingmar]

Lifebloom doesn't *really* give mana back. It used to cost X; now it costs 2X but returns X when it blooms. This makes it awfully inefficient when you're rolling a stack of it, since you're paying 2X over and over and never getting your X back. It turned from a must-cast-all-the-time spell to one that is very situational when they nerfed it. Still good against dispellers in pvp, etc.

EDIT: I guess you could argue it as one of those 'higher throughput/lower efficiency' choices that GC says are a goal for Cataclysm healing, but I think it straight up loses out to nourish spam right now?

[Zetor]

yeah, cross-server random pugs are in every sense of the word. Sometimes I'd get people with starcaller titles and i258 gear, other times fresh 80s. My personal curse seems to be the "you are tanking no matter what". I just queued for a random heroic and got h-dtk with a 18k hp [in frost presence] non-defense-capped DK tank who hasn't trained his 80 skills yet... I had to take over after the 3rd pull 'cos he was getting gibbed even with the holy pally HL spamming him. /sadface

[Soulflame]

Lifebloom doesn't *really* give mana back. It used to cost X; now it costs 2X but returns X when it blooms. This makes it awfully inefficient when you're rolling a stack of it, since you're paying 2X over and over and never getting your X back. It turned from a must-cast-all-the-time spell to one that is very situational when they nerfed it. Still good against dispellers in pvp, etc.

EDIT: I guess you could argue it as one of those 'higher throughput/lower efficiency' choices that GC says are a goal for Cataclysm healing, but I think it straight up loses out to nourish spam right now?

Well, yeah, my principle assumption is once I hit level 80, I'll be able to use Nourish, instead of lifebloom.  I'm only level 75 right now, so that's just not possible.  It's probably crazy talk, but it might be worth rolling lifebloom on a target for an additional 20% healing effect on nourish?  (I'm guessing no.)

[Soulflame]

yeah, cross-server random pugs are in every sense of the word. Sometimes I'd get people with starcaller titles and i258 gear, other times fresh 80s. My personal curse seems to be the "you are tanking no matter what". I just queued for a random heroic and got h-dtk with a 18k hp [in frost presence] non-defense-capped DK tank who hasn't trained his 80 skills yet... I had to take over after the 3rd pull 'cos he was getting gibbed even with the holy pally HL spamming him. /sadface

I had a warrior like this once (I may have mentioned it here.)  20k hps, around 500 def, could not maintain aggro to save... well, everyone else's life.  So of course he was trying to tank HUP.

I left after the third pull, because I could not keep him alive, the dps warrior was doing more tanking than he was (and I could not keep him alive much better) and I had stray mobs beating on me as well, which IIRC, led directly to my death on the third pull (the first one with four mobs.)  It was a circus.

[Ingmar]

If you had a TON of mana regen, maybe. Otherwise lifebloom will run you out of mana if you try to do it for too long or on too many people. There are a couple spots where it would be better to toss a lifebloom than a rejuv for a raid heal, too, like if you just can't wait the couple seconds for that first rejuv tick (and you don't have the tier set bonus that makes rejuv have an up front instant heal) and can't stop moving (or are unable to) to nourish.

[Lantyssa]

I use Lifebloom for when I can't stop long enough to cast or I have an Omen proc.  Usually that's been in PvP, so I guess it still fits what Ingmar said.

[Sjofn]

Nourish is pretty rad. You can't spam it forever or anything, but I haven't really felt I've had to in any five mans I've healed. And in raids I'm HoT Bitch.

[Soulflame]

Curse you and your T10 bonuses!

 

WTB real bonuses for paladin T10.   

[Ingmar]

I use Lifebloom for when I can't stop long enough to cast or I have an Omen proc.  Usually that's been in PvP, so I guess it still fits what Ingmar said.

Yeah I should have mentioned that, with an omen proc it actually becomes a mana gain, so that can be useful.

[Selby]

I love Lifebloom.  I don't understand the hate or dislike (my mana regen hasn't been a problem in a long while).  Last bad PUG I was in the druid would ONLY use Rejuvenation to heal with.  It was horrible, many deaths.

[apocrypha]

Was in a TOC5 heroic group yesterday with both the tank you are describing (20k hp, under def cap) and the druid healer you are describing (seemed to be not actually doing *anything* most of the time).

After a few wipes I swapped my Shammny to resto spec to help out, but 2 healers meant not enough DPS and the tank still couldn't hold agro. Only my 2nd failed random dungeon so far, the other being a HoR run that I was unable to heal.

[Paelos]

Take a warrior tank at your peril in HoR. That's coming from a warrior tank.

The place simply isn't designed remotely around our skillset or cooldowns. I can beat it with my friends, but your average Pug? Expect heavy delays.

Then again, a farting pally would probably clean up.

[Zetor]

It's no walk in the park for bear druids either... sure, they have a ton of hp and armor, but no way to silence / pull casters, no reliable interrupt on a short cooldown (my bear is not talented for reduced CD on bash, but even that'd be too long), etc.