TERA Online from Bluehole Studio

[Margalis]

Edit: Certain people in this thread fundamentally don't understand how action games work.

I wrote a lot more but the above is self-evident so that's all I really need to say I think. If you call Virtua Fighter half-twitch and DCUO full-twitch you are on something.

[Rokal]

Apparently you can move once you rank up abilities so that makes things better.  I have no idea why they do that, but whatever.  So I guess the whole argument is over in any case.

You rank up to that point pretty quickly (it's unlocked for most of my Berserker charge skills as of level 22). I think it's mostly a training-wheels mechanic to start. Moving and charging at the same time in TERA is actually a little awkward (as by default this is W and one of the number keys both being held down simultaneously), and takes some getting used to. By delaying your exposure to that, you get a handle on how combat works on the game, defense, etc. without worrying about moving your character too.

FWIW, I disliked the DCUO combat system as it felt too spammy. I much prefer TERA where you're thinking about using abilities and pressing a button for one every 3-4 seconds rather than mashing 1-2 buttons quickly until the fight ends. Melee abilities also didn't really feel like they had any weight to them, which is something I really appreciate about TERA. The animations and effects really sell the combat.

[Sky]

Sky is like 25 years behind in game design terms.

This stuff is literally from the days of Double Dragon if not earlier. OH MY GOD YOU CAN'T MOVE WHILE YOU SWING TEH BAT!!

In his rush to proclaim that everything must do exactly what SWTOR did and just badly ape WoW he seems to have forgotten to come up with an actual point. "This isn't how other MMOs work!" No shit - that's the idea. It is how good action games work - also the idea.

What?

1. I will totally kick your ass at Double Dragon.
2. Please provide examples of me proclaiming that everything must do exactly what TOR did, especially as the places where they aped WoW are the things I dislike about it.
3. Maybe there's a reason it's a shitty idea for MMO.
4. Other stuff that's serious business.

[Draegan]

Shuttup old man.

[Sky]

Did you know Double Dragon had friendly fire? MMO pvp needs more of that.

[Nija]

Can I get some DCUO combat?  Now that shit was a good combat system.

I don't have a horse in this race, but if DCUO combat was any good you wouldn't be talking about it in past tense already.

[Draegan]

Can I get some DCUO combat?  Now that shit was a good combat system.

I don't have a horse in this race, but if DCUO combat was any good you wouldn't be talking about it in past tense already.

The combat was fun as hell, the rest of the game was shit because there was nothing to do with the combat system.  And it didn't even have a working chat system.

Based off some another forum post so I can't verify it, but apparently TERA has a COMBAT ANIMATION SPEED stat in the game.    

[Threash]

Can I get some DCUO combat?  Now that shit was a good combat system.

I don't have a horse in this race, but if DCUO combat was any good you wouldn't be talking about it in past tense already.

A game can fail for other reasons besides their combat system, DCUO combat was perfect.

[Lantyssa]

I wouldn't say perfect, but it was very good.

Heck, Mabinogi had more interesting combat than most MMOs...

[Mrbloodworth]

So, TERA or Vindictus?

They seems to have almost similar combat types, though i think there is more things going on with Vindictus, grapples and such.

TERA seems more like a Dark Cloud system.

[Margalis]

3. Maybe there's a reason it's a shitty idea for MMO.

Maybe you should throw out what that reason is, rather than alluding to it for pages.

You can say "but this isn't how SWTOR works!" and "but but other MMOs!" all you want, but at some point you should probably say specifically why the design doesn't work in an MMO when it works in literally every other genre, including games that are basically MMOs like Monster Hunter and PSO/U. Including games where you fight fewer enemies at one time, games were you fight more enemies at one time, etc.

I'm curious, what about it breaks when you up the number of simultaneous players in one area? Can you be specific?

We've always been told that this sort of thing was impossible due to tech constraints. Clearly that's not true (and it never was, let's get real), so what's the new reason it doesn't work?

It seems to me that it would work or not work based on things like the individual enemy and attack designs. But since you believe there is some hard and fast rule about it never working in MMOs regardless of design I'm curious to hear your explanation.

Do tell!

[Nija]

So, TERA or Vindictus?

They seems to have almost similar combat types, though i think there is more things going on with Vindictus, grapples and such.

TERA seems more like a Dark Cloud system.

They aren't really comparable. Vindictus is like a coop game where you have small, quasi random dungeons that you go through. Tera is more open world style with big zones with monsters lazily standing around all over the place.

[Sky]

You can say "but this isn't how SWTOR works!"

Where are you getting this? You can't skip to #3 without answering #2.  You go ahead and give me all the examples of me saying TERA should do things exactly like TOR did. And as a bonus, put something behind your claim of me saying something ludicrous like mmo should ape WoW.

Then we'll go ahead with #3.

[Margalis]

"Which of those is an mmo again?"
"Maybe there's a reason it's a shitty idea for MMO."

I'm more than happy to let the jury decide if these statements were ever or will ever be explained in the slightest.

Maybe there is a reason, but you don't seem to know what it is.

[Wolf]

Either I'm completely missing something or this got lineage-y way too fast. At around level 21 my progression was limited to two zones of group quests or grindy repetable quests so I can level and move on to the next major zone where there is solo content. Not even talking about how I was slightly getting into the story and got no closure because the end of the major zone was all group content.

Also haven't read 30 pages but the combat would work great, if there were less buttons, or some sort of guild wars type of a deal where you pick 8-10 skills to be active at a time. As it is I like the amount of twitch and it's refreshing you can actually be pretty bad at the game if you don't pay attention :)

[Sky]

"Which of those is an mmo again?"
"Maybe there's a reason it's a shitty idea for MMO."

I'm more than happy to let the jury decide if these statements were ever or will ever be explained in the slightest.

Maybe there is a reason, but you don't seem to know what it is.

You didn't answer my question that unlocks the answer to your question.

2. Please provide examples of me proclaiming that everything must do exactly what TOR did, especially as the places where they aped WoW are the things I dislike about it.

You might want to note that I'm not the only one disagreeing with you in this thread. Hell, maybe I don't even disagree with you. It's difficult to see past the straw man you've created.

But now I also want to know how I'm 25 years behind on game design. Do tell.

[Rokal]

You can skip pretty much all of the group quests. Usually they mark the end of a series, and you'll have another quest in your log to start the next series even if you don't complete the group quest. I didn't have any problems leveling in the 20s, and I didn't bother with repeatable quests either.

Keep in mind that most group quests (aside from dungeons) can also be solo'd.

I heard the amount of exp you need per level is less than it is on the Korean servers, so you really shouldn't be running into situations where you have to grind.

[Wolf]

The couple of group quests I tried were very, very hard to solo. I played a warrior, had my shit enchanted, with decent gems. Took me 6-7minutes to kill a 1 mob out of 10 with zero margin of error. Miss a dodge - die. Doesn't help that every time you die there's a chance you'll lose one of your equipped gems.

I might be me be nubbing it up, but I saw no vendor selling the good health pots (x% per sec up to 75%), the soups that top you seem to be drop from chests only and regening health is SUPER slow, even next to a fire. Late quests/mob pulls in shadow basin (where 50-60% of all quests are group btw) and the quests around panda-people-town (mid to late 20s) were getting pretty tough, so I burned through my pots/soups pretty fast, after that it's a lot of downtime. Seems like the game is designed ala lineage - run with a group and you'll be fine, run solo and you'll struggle.

Like I said, combat is fun, but no thanks. I enjoy a different kind of ball grinding :)

[Margalis]

You might want to note that I'm not the only one disagreeing with you in this thread. Hell, maybe I don't even disagree with you.

Translation: Even I have no idea wtf I am saying!

Dude, give it up.

You got caught saying something dumb and everyone knows it. Move on. You will never explain what you meant because you spoke without thinking and meant nothing.

[Sky]

You got caught being a jackass and everyone knows it, jackass. You even PM'd me acknowledging the fact. You've accused me of utter bullshit without backing it up, and keep trying to make it out like I'm the one who is not explaining himself. I don't know where on the doll TOR or I touched you, but rub some dirt on it and get over it.

[Mrbloodworth]

So, TERA or Vindictus?

They seems to have almost similar combat types, though i think there is more things going on with Vindictus, grapples and such.

TERA seems more like a Dark Cloud system.

They aren't really comparable. Vindictus is like a coop game where you have small, quasi random dungeons that you go through. Tera is more open world style with big zones with monsters lazily standing around all over the place.

Well, I was talking about the combat systems.

[Draegan]

Margalis being Margalis.

[Rokal]

I might be me be nubbing it up, but I saw no vendor selling the good health pots (x% per sec up to 75%), the soups that top you seem to be drop from chests only and regening health is SUPER slow, even next to a fire. Late quests/mob pulls in shadow basin (where 50-60% of all quests are group btw) and the quests around panda-people-town (mid to late 20s) were getting pretty tough, so I burned through my pots/soups pretty fast, after that it's a lot of downtime.

The best way to regen health out-of-combat is bandages. Well, that and not getting hit in the first place :p

If you're still using bandages from the starter island, obviously those aren't going to make quite as much of an impact though.

[angry.bob]

13 pages and still no mention of what the thing people care about in this game: Panty progression. Are they sold separately or only as part of the armor. Are there specialty vendors? Are some race exclusive?

Yes, I'm totally serious and to reenforce racial stereotypes I'm half Japanese.

[Hoax]

13 pages and still no mention of what the thing people care about in this game: Panty progression. Are they sold separately or only as part of the armor. Are there specialty vendors? Are some race exclusive?

Yes, I'm totally serious and to reenforce racial stereotypes I'm half Japanese.

They really fucked this part up a little too imo. Instead of making it so you had the option of using any of the visual appearances you collect on your progression the wardrobe change system is a really expensive, not for low levels, moneysink and has nothing really to do with the armors you've had in the past.

I actually think there might have been something "like" an underwear slot its been weeks since I played but there seemed to be some cosmetic only equipment slots if I remember right. I doubt they were out and out underwear but it would have been appropriate and cool for some of the looks if you could change them.

[Margalis]

You've accused me of utter bullshit without backing it up, and keep trying to make it out like I'm the one who is not explaining himself.

But you aren't explaining yourself. Each time you post another yet another whine-filled post without explaining yourself that becomes even more clear. You said something stupid. You cannot and will not explain it. These are simple facts that no amount of "you must unlock teh answerz" bullshit will mitigate. There are no answers to unlock. You are completely clueless on the topic of action game design. Full stop.

You've had ample opportunity to prove otherwise and have failed spectacularly.

I also find it a bit amusing that the self-appointed "you should only post in game topics when you have positive things to say" policeman is contributing nothing but snide content-free remarks here. Not surprising but amusing.

[Pennilenko]

You've accused me of utter bullshit without backing it up, and keep trying to make it out like I'm the one who is not explaining himself.

But you aren't explaining yourself. Each time you post another yet another whine-filled post without explaining yourself that becomes even more clear. You said something stupid. You cannot and will not explain it. These are simple facts that no amount of "you must unlock teh answerz" bullshit will mitigate. There are no answers to unlock. You are completely clueless on the topic of action game design. Full stop.

You've had ample opportunity to prove otherwise and have failed spectacularly.

I also find it a bit amusing that the self-appointed "you should only post in game topics when you have positive things to say" policeman is contributing nothing but snide content-free remarks here. Not surprising but amusing.

You should leave the man alone, good grief man, he splits wood with a maul and does funny things to his facial hair. Are you really trying to have a slap fight with him?

[Kageru]

Is this still the fight that MMO combat mechanics should play like a 2 player console game or did it mutate into something even weirder? I can't actually tell what is being discussed from context.

[Margalis]

I was not aware that some sort of test of strength or fight to the death would come into play.

But yeah, I should probably stop. Let's talk about TERA! Although really I think I hit the nail on the head years ago - it has great graphics, animation and actiony combat married to an otherwise uninspired WoW clone.

Had it come out 12-18 months ago it would probably have a lot more impact than it will now. There are enough FTP psuedo-MMOs with actiony combat now that it's not as novel, and as I said in some SWTOR thread I think the era of WoW clones is ending.

[Sky]

But you aren't explaining yourself. Each time you post another yet another whine-filled post without explaining yourself that becomes even more clear. You said something stupid. You cannot and will not explain it. These are simple facts that no amount of "you must unlock teh answerz" bullshit will mitigate. There are no answers to unlock. You are completely clueless on the topic of action game design. Full stop.

You've had ample opportunity to prove otherwise and have failed spectacularly.

Margalis, you aren't explaining yourself. Each time you post yet another whine-filled post without explaining yourself that becomes even more clear. You said something stupid. You cannot and will not explain it. These are simple facts that no amount of "you said mmo should clone WoW" bullshit will mitigate. There is no proof to back up your assertions. You are completey clueless. Full stop.

You've had ample opportunity to show the slightest shred of evidence to backup your claims and have failed spectacularly.

Maybe you can pm me again about what a sack of shit you are. 3 pms, really? Maybe you can pass me a note in gym next.

Also, I use a splitting axe, not a maul.

[Sky]

Additionally, every post on this page.

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[Shatter]

Can we get back to talking about how TERA is made from the same old bullshit MMO mold?

[Draegan]

I'll pay a dollar per PM you post.

[Sparky]

Too bad they're launching in May.  If it was April I'd consider buying a box to tide me over until Diablo 3 but launching a mere 2 weeks before that behemoth I can hold out.  Should've rushed that shit out the door as it was only an East > West port anyhow.

[Ginaz]

FYI mmorpg.com has some beta keys available for this weekend.

http://www.mmorpg.com/giveaways.cfm/offer/324/TERA-Beta-Key-Handout.html