The Story of How One Man Ate a Donut and It Changed His Life. Forever.

[photek]

Honestly, come to America. Start in New York and track a trail to Chicago stopping in as many of the rust belt cities as you can to sample the donuts. Cross the waters to Toronto while you are at it to get the Canadian crack. Once you hit Chicago, grab a plane to the West Coast and make a trail from CA to CA (..nada to ..lifornia). Literally, Vancouver to San Diego. Again, eat donuts, especially all the little Asian joints here in SoCal.

Once that is done you will either be dead due to a shit diet, or you will totally grok donuts and know that you can take your country by storm. It won't be cheap, but it's an investment in learning donuts ninja style so you can make donuts awesome.

Eat Krispy Kreme, but only once. It's over rated sugar loafs. You need to understand the magic of why it's good (only when hot and fresh), but also understand why it's not good (eating at many real donut shops should do that).

I just did some research on the places you told me and there is several various donut shops in those areas, many of them have some great pics up on their site and some even offer recipes to "try-at-home". Pretty rad. I'd love a coast to coast trip in the US just eating lots of pastry 

[Abagadro]

Every local business would disagree. It's not about each sale, it's about creating a hangout.

This is 100% wrong. In a small margin business, the key is turnover. It's butts through the door, not butts in the seats for two hours. People aren't going to eat a donut, surf for 30 minutes and then eat another donut. Your profit is someone coming in and ordering 2 dozen for their office. The reason you see wi-fi in places is because it is a marginal benefit over similarly positioned competitors. That isn't a problem for a market break-in enterprise.

I would second the notion of not even having a retail location. Go direct-sale with a small overhead production center and delivery plus wholesale to branded retail outlets (i.e. you have a Photek's Donuts case in an existing location). Much lower up-front and ongoing expenses. If you become a market leader you can then open up a retail outlet.

[lamaros]

My nonna used to make savoury donuts for us when we were kids. It was awesome, we used to love going up to visit them because they'd often be ready for eating just after we arrived.

I've never had a big thing for sweet donuts.

[Engels]

Every local business would disagree. It's not about each sale, it's about creating a hangout.

This is 100% wrong. In a small margin business, the key is turnover. It's butts through the door, not butts in the seats for two hours. People aren't going to eat a donut, surf for 30 minutes and then eat another donut. Your profit is someone coming in and ordering 2 dozen for their office. The reason you see wi-fi in places is because it is a marginal benefit over similarly positioned competitors. That isn't a problem for a market break-in enterprise.

I would second the notion of not even having a retail location. Go direct-sale with a small overhead production center and delivery plus wholesale to branded retail outlets (i.e. you have a Photek's Donuts case in an existing location). Much lower up-front and ongoing expenses. If you become a market leader you can then open up a retail outlet.

If someone doens't like the 'hang out' feel of your place, you are entirely doomed. Its called the 'third place factor' (not home or work), and has the same role in providing customer stickiness as it does in pubs & bars. If a cafe doesn't have it, people will just go to Starbucks instead. Even though you're 100% right that its the turn around that makes one of these shops survive in the short term, without the untangible 'this place is rad I'mma gonna hang out' factor, the shop will suffer a slow death.

[Hindenburg]

If someone doens't like the 'hang out' feel of your place, you are entirely doomed. Its called the 'third place factor' (not home or work), and has the same role in providing customer stickiness as it does in pubs & bars. If a cafe doesn't have it, people will just go to Starbucks instead. Even though you're 100% right that its the turn around that makes one of these shops survive in the short term, without the untangible 'this place is rad I'mma gonna hang out' factor, the shop will suffer a slow death.

Abagrado is giving low investment, low risk advice. He's also right, especially about avoiding retail completely for now.
Seriously, some of the suggestions here would bankrupt the chap before he even started. 

[Sky]

Ab, that might work for big chains, I dunno. I know my town has been a battleground for donut supremacy for decades. I don't eat donuts, but most people here do, so I'm going by years of observational experience. The big chains (Dunkin, etc) come in and use this particularly assholish commercial broker to buy the land next to the local shops. Literally every small donut shop has a major chain in the lot directly next to it. But every single small shop is still in business after all these years, because they focus on the customer experience.

Of course the good money is in big order takeouts for the office. But you can go to any shop for that, you'll get cheaper and faster service from the chain shops. The little shops make it on the atmosphere, the one guy in the office who lobbies for them because he likes to hang out there before coming to work and knows everyone by name. Because it's a nice atmosphere to hang out and the chains are just fucking creepy.

Anyway, I've said my piece and I'll bow out and leave it to the Changed Donut Man to figure out.

[photek]

Got tons of time the last week to research more, do some writeups and write the executive summary for the cafe and had to change the concept a bit. So it seems that health and fitness is the number one obsession around here and making a donut-oriented shop would be quite a high-risk with the exception of a stand or using festivals etc as a place to sell donuts so after consulting some of the biggest pastry, restaurant and cafe executives, etc. and from my past experience I decided to go with bagels (freshly made bagel sandwiches) as main with tons of flavors, juices and smoothies (also fresh-made from fruit), coffee and finally donuts and other similar products (cupcakes, danish, cookies) as secondary.

I will still be exclusive on the "best donuts in town!" along with "only proper donuts in town" though, but I'll be the bagel-donut man instead 

[MahrinSkel]

Probably not a bad idea, but make sure they're New York style bagels.  I'm not sure what makes them different, but here in Texas all the bagels taste like a hamburger bun with a hole in it, except at a few of the little shops that bake their own.

And in spite of Schild's puritanism, there is absolutely nothing wrong with cake-batter donuts.  Fine, it's a fried cupcake with a hole in it, it's still delicious.

--Dave

[Oban]

Oh wow, if you want to go the bagel route the best bagels in the world are from : http://www.fairmountbagel.com

I have friends in Germany and Spain that have asked me to ship them bagels from this store because after trying the real thing they craved them at home.  I had to ship them as samples via FedEx because of some odd EU restrictions on imports of bread products.  You may be able to order the directly from the store, I am not sure though.

Nothing beats a wood fired oven bagel.

[NowhereMan]

Clearly if I ever visit Norway I have to travel to Photek's bagel/donut shop now.

[photek]

Ow I forgot to mention about supply and demand. That kinda figures though and one of the main reason which led me here and also that my grandfather is a baker and has owned a bakery for decades in Ex-Yugoslavia sitting on some of the most tasting stuff I've eaten (recipes) helps. The past week I've been hearing most about wood-fired ovens and some suggested steam injected bagel ovens. So much work, so little time, but loving every step of it so far.

[Yoru]

If you get this up and running, I may have to hop the ferry to come visit and try it out. Especially for bagels. There was a great bagel shop in Decatur, and an awesome Chinese bakery in SF that made amazing bagels. None of 'em beat Real New York Bagels though, and there's nothing comparable out here in Reykjavik.

Fuck, I want to make a bagelburger now.

[schild]

Ow I forgot to mention about supply and demand. That kinda figures though and one of the main reason which led me here and also that my grandfather is a baker and has owned a bakery for decades in Ex-Yugoslavia sitting on some of the most tasting stuff I've eaten (recipes) helps. The past week I've been hearing most about wood-fired ovens and some suggested steam injected bagel ovens. So much work, so little time, but loving every step of it so far.

I'm not a big fan of steam injected bagel ovens. I worked in a bagel bakery for a few years and we just had a regular oven with a rotating rack. Fucking delish.

But then, it depends on what style bagel you're aiming for.

[Strazos]

Serious Question - What's the difference? I probably haven't had a GOOD bagel in years; mostly Thomas', crap from a vending machine at work, and Dunkin'.

[Yegolev]

I have never had a good bagel, but last night I had a Krispy Kreme Milkshake.  It's exactly what it sounds like, a KK blended into a vanilla milkshake.  I also had a hamburger that tasted like a Chicago hot dog.  I'll have to go back for lunch.

[schild]

Why didn't you just say you went to Richard Blaise's restaurant?

[MahrinSkel]

Serious Question - What's the difference? I probably haven't had a GOOD bagel in years; mostly Thomas', crap from a vending machine at work, and Dunkin'.

There's a sticky texture and tangy flavor to a Real Bagel, especially concentrated in the crust which after toasting is smooth, slightly shiny, and comparatively non-porous to the point of being effectively waterproof, the interior has voids ranging up to the size of a BB and with lots of variation.  Thomas' is specifically what I'm talking about with "hamburger bun with a hole".  The crust on those is soft rather than chewy; flaky, porous and optically flat when toasted; the flavor is just ordinary bread; and the texture is that of Wonder Bread.

Maybe you shouldn't try and find one.  If you do, you'll never be able to eat a Thomas bagel again.

--Dave

[schild]

There's a sticky texture and tangy flavor to a Real Bagel

Depends on the variety, a New York bagel these days is also steam injected instead of soaking and releasing steam which results in a terribly inconsistant crust that's more soft than hard. A good bagel has a shine but it depends on the type of bagel, specifically, what's in the bagel. Wheat is going to have a softer consistancy than a white bread bagel and at the same time so is an onion bagel (not a bialy!) Of course, it depends on whether it's just onions cooked on top of the bagel or not. Basically New York (and by extension, Einstein) are basically just not that great of a bagel. The only Jews that like new york bagels are new yorkers because they're mostly assholes.

In other words, trust a jew. That said, I wouldn't do bagels AND donuts. Do one and do it right. The machinery necessary to make proper bagels and proper donuts are entirely different and both take up a huge amount of space unless you just get a panel of deep friers for the donuts but then you run into the problem of cooking different kinds of donuts in the same grease.

Dunkin Donuts bagels are just not great, mostly because they're probably shipped frozen. But then, their "donuts" aren't donuts anyway.

Edit: I suppose I should also mention that the need to stock a heavier much higher-gluten dough (or make it every day, again with different equipment) will result you in basically running two shops. If you're able to use a regular consumer grade mixer on the dough, it's not heavy enough. Also, you need space for large, and I mean large, boilers for salted water. Not to mention if you really want to do a bagel service, each one has to be baked until it's about to brown. This white shit we're seeing in supermarkets are simply not good bagels. I love bagels, and I especially love good bagels, and I am upset with what is available in Texas though I keep buying them from HEB because it's my only real choice since everything else around here is crap and I'm trying to do my best to avoid Einstein's. Finally, New York bagels are simply too big. Or rather, last I had them they were, I can't imagine they've changed, New Yorkers fear change. A bagel should be roughly 20% bigger than a properly made donuts but with a smaller hole than a donut (roughly 50-75% smaller).

[Merusk]

Damnit, now I want a Bagel.  We had a few good delis around here 5 years ago, but they've all closed.  Now I'm stuck with Panera, which suck.  Suck suck suckity suck.  I'm always appalled that the folks who bring them in talk them up like they're the best bagels and bread ever.  Overpriced shit aimed ad 'earth conscious' yuppies is what that place sells.

[Engels]

What's the story with egg bagels? I ask Schild and any other jews in the know regarding this type of bagel. I've had them about 6 times in my life, they were the best bagel I ever had, and then poof, the sources for them dissappear. Either the shop stops baking them, or the store stops carrying the company that makes them or some other reason. They seem rare, and not particularly popular, but I think they're awsome. Are they a 'real bagel', or are they an impostor from Philly or some such? Is there any secure line of procurement?

[Baldrake]

These are the bagels you should be copying.

Mmmmmmmmmm.

[Oban]

These are the bagels you should be copying.

Mmmmmmmmmm.

Yes, as I said above,  http://www.fairmountbagel.com 

[Yegolev]

Why didn't you just say you went to Richard Blaise's restaurant?

I don't know who that is, plus the restaurant isn't called Richard Blaise's Flip.

[Bunk]

Top Chef Season 4:

Richard Blais,[18][19] 35 — Hometown: Uniondale, NY; Resides in Atlanta, GA. Chef, culinary designer, Trail-Blais[18] -- Runner-Up

[Yegolev]

Was he on the Muppet Show once?

I don't watch TV.

[Sheepherder]

What's the story with egg bagels? I ask Schild and any other jews in the know regarding this type of bagel. I've had them about 6 times in my life, they were the best bagel I ever had, and then poof, the sources for them dissappear. Either the shop stops baking them, or the store stops carrying the company that makes them or some other reason. They seem rare, and not particularly popular, but I think they're awsome. Are they a 'real bagel', or are they an impostor from Philly or some such? Is there any secure line of procurement?

Schild's people are trying to take over the world by weakening the Gentile races through corruption, addiction, and debt:



 

EDIT: Smaller picture.

[Johny Cee]

These are the bagels you should be copying.

Mmmmmmmmmm.

Yes, as I said above,  http://www.fairmountbagel.com 

Hmm..   Can I get some Montreal Smoked Meat on that?  With a side of Poutine?

[Oban]

Hmm..   Can I get some Montreal Smoked Meat on that?  With a side of Poutine?

They do have smoked meat on a bagel, no poutine though.  However, there is a place around the corner and down a bit that does poutine with duck fat.

 

[photek]

A small update for some random reason. I'm done with most of the prework, did some design and concept drawings of the place and have initiated the product development (read=making delicious bagel sandwiches). So the place is called "Bagelbite" and with extremely hard work the past months I hope to have it up and running by end of June (start of THE season here in Norway). We are going to serve bagel sandwiches, coffee, fresh juices, smoothies, cookies and other sideorders like cupcakes, donuts etcetra, though they are not made here at our place as they are secondary productline.

I put lots of focus on healthy and fresh served food and beverage and am going to have a place for people between 16 and 45 with modern interior and design using vibrant colors like lime green, orange, pink, yellow, purple etcetra. Here is the logo, you guys are some of the first to see it, and I hope some of you get to taste these superdelish bagels. Besides ordinary bagels, bagelsandwiches etcetra we are going to have BBQ for hot bagels with various meat and things on them. And of course various fishes (go Norway!)



The tag under it means "A healthier choice" 

[Trippy]

Wrong symbol on your logotype (assuming Norway's IP laws are similiar to the US's). You'll want a TM there or a circle R after you register the trademark. The copyright on the "form" is implicit thanks to the Berne convention.

[photek]

Wrong symbol on your logotype (assuming Norway's IP laws are similiar to the US's). You'll want a TM there or a circle R after you register the trademark. The copyright on the "form" is implicit thanks to the Berne convention.

Shit you're right, they are. I didn't add it there though, so I'll change it (<3PSD).

[Baldrake]

Congrats, Photek! If I'm ever in your part of the woods, I'll be sure to drop by for a bagel.

By the way, you may have a little trouble trademarking that name.

[Oban]

BagelNips  / BagelNip

[Ookii]

Wow, so you're actually doing this.  Hats off to you sir.

[Engels]

Very cool Photek! I'm inspired that you've pushed this through. Let me tell you, if this takes off, you're going to have many greatful american expat fans in your neck of the woods. And hopefully some pleasantly surprised Norwegians :)