Dollhouse

[Tarami]

It was alright. Dushku is not a convincing actress. I had to stare out the window to distract myself far too many times. Also, it was unbelievably stupid. The whole hostage scenario and the way they let her inside to stand and rant at them for minutes was just retarded.

[Signe]

I watched it this morning.  I was going to watch it last night but Righ dislikes this actress a lot.  Anyway, it was awful.  She was awful.  It's in the perfect time slot.  It really does deserve to die and whatshername should find a job as a fence post.

[Tebonas]

I hadn't remembered Dushku as quite this bad an actress. Did she devolve or was I distraced during the Buffy days?

Anyway, this series is doomed, she doesn't have the chops to pull off one personality, let alone a different one each week. And the premise just makes me miss My own worst Enemy.

[TripleDES]

If this gets more episodes than Firefly, I'm going to bomb Fox HQ.

[stray]

Your priorities are all fucked up. You should have bombed them for O'Reilly already, if anything.

[Ironwood]

You're looking at it wrong.  O'Reilly will eventuall die and then you'll have a new plot to dance on.

Silver linings and all that.

[Signe]

Wouldn't it be awesome if Bill O'Reilly and Margaret Thatcher popped their clogs on the same day?  I don't know how to tap dance but I'd learn for that!

[Jain Zar]

On a sidenote, it's kind of interesting what a built-in "fanbase" does. Sarah Conner had 3.7 million viewers, but this show went to 4.7 (neither of which are great though).

The Whedon fanbase isn't just a fanbase. It's a collective of nerds living in a world where "good taste" doesn't even exist.

This.  This is truth.  Joss Whedon makes shit, and apparently has a fanbase for his shit that empowers him to continuously make more of it, in spite of any evidence anyone else wants to fucking see it, or hear about it.

And Firefly wasn't some creative genius thing.  Western in Space?  There were like 4 or 5 cartoon shows in the 80s with the exact same fucking premise.  And many of them had GIANT FUCKIN ROBOTS, which trump Whedon quippy dialogue bullshit any day, any time.

[stray]

Giant robots are stupid.

[naum]

I loved Firefly but honestly, it was nothing more than Cowboy Bebop Redux…

[schild]

I loved Firefly but honestly, it was nothing more than Cowboy Bebop Redux…

The first time I saw Firefly all I could think was how it was basically the shittiest version of Cowboy Bebop Joss could get away with. I still think so, but I'm at least amused by Baldwin and I can stare at Summer Glau when she's not being forced into ugliness.

Also, I never even a little gave a shit about his characters. In fact, that may be the big problem with all of his stuff. I just don't care about any of the characters he writes.

[Margalis]

Western in Space?  There were like 4 or 5 cartoon shows in the 80s with the exact same fucking premise

Space Rangers, LoneStar and Silver Hawks are the three I can think of. I loved Space Rangers.

I've always hated the Whedon hot skinny girl who kicks ass archetype. If he wants to have a strong female character can't he have one that doesn't look like a model and actually LOOKS like she kicks ass, either in pure physical appearance or in movement? Watching Sarah Michelle Gellar "fight" was painful, it's pretty fucking obvious that she's totally clueless when it comes to actual fighting and would have trouble injuring a small child.

Whether or not Whedon loves or hates women I don't care to get into but his skinny kick ass characters do come off as creepy male fantasy to me. Female hero the way a horny immature man would imagine one. They come off as girls playing a part and are totally unconvincing.

[stray]

Oh, give me a break.. you want Chavez from Aliens or what? To hell with that.


Wait, could we compromise on a hot tall girl then? That's cool with me. Hasn't been a better asskicker than Famke Janssen.


edit: err.. I mean Vasquez

[Margalis]

Hot is not in itself a problem, it's a combination of hotness married to total unbelievability that's the problem. Sarah Michelle Gellar clearly doesn't know a thing about fighting and if they gave her any lessons at all they didn't take.

I'm not asking that every character be Vasquez. I can buy Famke Janssen or Angelina Jolie. Hell I can buy Kate Beckinsale in Underworld. But every time I watch SMG throw a punch I'm confronted head-on with the fact that I'm watching someone playing dress-up. I got the same feeling from Summer Glau in what little I saw of Serenity. And of course Dushku.

I guess some people view these characters as "girl power" but I don't see the girl power in women very badly faking being powerful.

[stray]

Summer Glau is extremely flexible and athletic. She's a ballet dancer.. I wouldn't doubt that she has an easier time with fight choreography than most guys. And it shows. She looks cool doing it. Not sure what you're watching. She's just small, that's all. My mom's a small little Asian woman too though. Didn't stop her from kicking my ass. Among other crazy things. Heh

[Ironwood]

I've never had a problem with Summer kicking ass.

However, I find that Buffy would sometimes fight in the most ridiculous outfits that quite clearly would NEVER hold up to what the hell she was doing.

So I can understand where we're coming from.

[stray]

Yeah, I didn't mention that. My bad. I do agree about Buffy.

Not Glau though.

Not Dushku either. She can do a bitchy face at least. Haha

[Signe]

How does someone's looks make up for terrible acting?  Maybe for people who are brain dead or something.  These people you mention are terrible at what they say they do for a living.  It's like me hiring an incompetent plumber over and over again because he has a nice crack.  Hot girls are common as muck.  You can find them all over the place.  Why would anyone spend an hour watching a terrible television show because some girl in it has nice tits?  Geez.  Get some taste, you guys!

[Trippy]

We're guys -- our needs are very simple

Though actually I'm in the camp that doesn't think Eliza is that hot. I think that doctor with the scars across her face (Amy Acker, another Whedon regular) is far hotter.

Edit: Whedon, I always spell his last name wrong for some reason

[Ironwood]

  Why would anyone spend an hour watching a terrible television show because some girl in it has nice tits? 

Um.  Because that person is a bloke ?

Hell, I've lost count of some of the chewing gum for the eyes I've watched over the years due to rackage.

That said, I couldn't watch that Dushku Morgue Vehicle about time travel.

It was so bad, it broke the bad spectrum.

[Signe]

You have the internet.  You can look at naked pictures whenever you like, all you like so I still don't get the watching bad tv for boobs thing.  You have so many options these days.  Why choose the one that kills brain cells and encourages untalented idiots to make bad tv?  That's a guy thing?  I'm glad luck was on my side during my conception.

[Mrbloodworth]

Wow, I never gave a thought to any of this. The premise is just supposed to be silly, I thought: Cheerleader turned vampire slayer. Not girl. Cheerleader.

Everything Whedon's done has two major parts:

1.  Cool and quirky,  pop culture conscious, combining different genres (action and comedy, horror and comedy)
2.  Ham-handed allegory.


The worst example was the "Heart of Gold" episode of Firefly:  the supposed plot had something to do with a farmer/prostitute land dispute or love match on the wrong side of the tracks or something. 

It devolved into the mustache twirling misogynist villain forcing the prostitute-traitor to give him a blow job in front of his followers, to show his beliefs on sexual dominance and female empowerment, before he's killed by the plucky heroes.

You do realize that firefly was a sort of western in space right? I wonder if frontierism was before or after woman's lib. 

[Numtini]

I'm just ignoring the T&A discussion, but I don't see this lasting very long. I liked it. I like the actrons in it well enough. But how do you develop characters when you wipe someone's memory every episode. Whedon's strengths for writing character development and long term development, not episodic plot.

[HaemishM]

Watched it. I can't say it struck me that well. I'll give it about 3 episodes because the Alpha subplot/main arc story seems somewhat interesting. But it fell flat in a lot of places. The hostage setup and the way they got out of it was REALLY contrived. It broke the too big a coincidence threshold. Also, Eliza Dushku really can't act well enough for this story. Perhaps the fact that Fox forced them to make this episode the first one instead of the actual pilot will help this show improve. But if 3 episodes in it hasn't gotten better, I'm outie.

[Trippy]

I'm just ignoring the T&A discussion, but I don't see this lasting very long. I liked it. I like the actrons in it well enough. But how do you develop characters when you wipe someone's memory every episode. Whedon's strengths for writing character development and long term development, not episodic plot.

[Bunk]

I'll give it a chance. I'm hoping the plot arches together a bit better as we go, and gets away from the "mission a week".

As for Dushku's acting - I think I didn't notice as much in Buffy, because she had a pretty basic role - angry slut.
She only really fell apart in Dollhouse when she tried pulling off the emotionally scarred professional.

Was I wrong, or was the FBI guy not Helo?

 - checked, yep it is him. Which is a little suprising for me, as it doesn't appear to be filmed in Vancouver.

[DraconianOne]

How does someone's looks make up for terrible acting?  Maybe for people who are brain dead or something.  These people you mention are terrible at what they say they do for a living.  It's like me hiring an incompetent plumber over and over again because he has a nice crack.  Hot girls are common as muck.  You can find them all over the place.  Why would anyone spend an hour watching a terrible television show because some girl in it has nice tits?  Geez.  Get some taste, you guys!

Is this a bad time to mention that Baywatch lasted for 11 seasons?

[Jain Zar]

Western in Space?  There were like 4 or 5 cartoon shows in the 80s with the exact same fucking premise

Space Rangers, LoneStar and Silver Hawks are the three I can think of. I loved Space Rangers.

I believe you forgot the most awesome one, or at least most awesome theme song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EdvOSQ9WBiw&feature=related

I'm sure the actual english version of the show was pure 80s hackjob cheese, and the Japanese original was typical 80s anime.  (No Moe, lots of mass carnage.) 
I am still planning on buying it though.
And then running it as an RPG using Cartoon Action Hour 2nd edition.  Powered armored nationality themed space peacekeepers with their own giant transforming robot, and robot horsies with cavalry sabers? 

FUCKIN A.

[patience]

You have the internet.  You can look at naked pictures whenever you like, all you like so I still don't get the watching bad tv for boobs thing.  You have so many options these days.  Why choose the one that kills brain cells and encourages untalented idiots to make bad tv?  That's a guy thing?  I'm glad luck was on my side during my conception.

We are men. We have issues making good judgments for our libido. If we did, the majority of strip clubs wouldn't exist.

[Riggswolfe]

Hmmm....very mixed feelings for me.

I can see potential in the concept, but, like the others, Eliza's acting didn't feel right to me. Which is odd, because unlike the ranters who didn't watch the shows, I saw her pull some range in later Buffy episode's, and especially in a few Angel episodes.

I'll give it a few episodes, I found myself more curious about surrounding characters than about Echo but maybe that will change over time. I do think it tried a little too hard to be hip at a couple of points and I wince at the trailer that shows the bullet coming out of the gun when she shoots at a man I'm assuming is "Alpha". That special effect is getting way, way overused.

[ashrik]

Just caught it over on Hulu. Eliza, to me, definitely isn't hot enough to continue watching a show for. Nor does she seem to be that capable of compelling constant imitations that a B show like Burn Notice pulls off every week.

Hopefully I'll get to see something a bit more interesting in this show, or it's doneski
Something like...

oohhohoh

[Fordel]

Western in Space?  There were like 4 or 5 cartoon shows in the 80s with the exact same fucking premise

Space Rangers, LoneStar and Silver Hawks are the three I can think of. I loved Space Rangers.

Does Saber Rider count?



On the lady casting issue, Gina Torres always looked like she could kick some ass.


-edit- Jain Zar beat me to it, the bastard! 

[Prospero]

The episode seemed rushed. They didn't need to shove in quite as many elements as they did. Eliza was definitely stilted, which is I agree with Riggs is weird. I think the show has potential if she can relax into the role.

[Righ]

Is this a bad time to mention that Baywatch lasted for 11 seasons?

That's probably more understandable because it predated broadband Internet and unlimited free online porn, or something.

[Fordel]

Simple, Safe and Entertaining is a proven TV Formula.


-edit- proveN