Young, in love and confused.

[apocrypha]

Doesn't that make sense?

Probably the most sense I've read anywhere all week. I think you should get out of that dodgy Sony company and start writing relationship guidance books 

[Grimwell]

Older men pick up on the signals better, which is why many divorced men date younger women.

...

Yeah, that's exactly why.

 

I meant they are successful at it despite being older and divorced. TBH I don't know why any young hot chick would want to date me if my wife left me, but I'm confident I could land a few. My assumption is because my ability to pick up their signals is much improved even if it does me nothing. :)

[schild]

To be fair, I wouldn't tell anyone to fuck the dog, even if they had one. Maybe... spray paint the dog. Especially if it's a yippy little fucker.

[stray]

Older men pick up on the signals better

I don't know. Not to say that an older, married or divorced guy doesn't know things, but something as simple as growing up with a good sister or mom helps too (a good mom or sister in the sense of telling you the truth. Not silly momma's boy shit). Or a dad who has been around the block. Having some insight about the opposite sex is supposed to happen a helluva lot sooner than some post-divorce dating phase, I'd think! 

Anyhow, I definitely don't long for highschool. My situation probably couldn't be any better than it is now. Highschool would only be nice in the sense that I can be lazy, and at school, people are everywhere. You gotta put yourself out there when you're older, but that's it.

[Merusk]

Did Stray just imply he picked-up both his sister AND his mom?

 

[stray]

[edit] Bah! I have no response to that.

[IainC]

I haven't read this thread at all beyond this page but my advice is to buy a silver pen and some black paper then use them to write terrible poetry. That always works.

[slog]

This thread seems to have brought out the talking assholes. I don't even think some of you are kidding around.  Geez.  I'm rather surprised at apocrypha for agreeing with slog's tired old bollocks.  The others who agreed?  Not surprised at all.

I think you are being unfair to the older guys who just aren't expressing themselves politely. Allow me to try... and if I fail forgive me for being a crude and barbaric jerk. 

I'm 37. I've been married since 1995. I married a woman in her early 20's who was ready to marry (as evidenced by it working) and she was a lot of fun to be with then. She's still younger than me (29 last time I checked  ) and a lot of fun to be with now. She is my partner, and we make a damn good team that can get shit done, raise a family, and still have time to pretend we have time to be romantic. While it's not the stuff of movies, we aren't plagued by zombies or giant robots so I think we are doing something right and have a good thing in trade for the lack of Hollywood's false dreams.

I'm older, more mature, and know a hell of a lot more about life and women than I did when I got married. That maturity, and time with a woman has given me a lot of insight on women that I never had when I was a single punk. Single guys rarely have the chance to really understand the opportunities they have in front of them with single girls and relationships. Which is why so many tall tales start with "If I could go back to high school... I'd get a lot more action!"

We would. We know more, too much probably, which is part of the plan socially. At some point in the lives of men who dated a lot of women in their time (dated, not slept with) they realize just how many more of them they could have had but failed to because they didn't understand the incoming signals. How many times did you, or any other girl you knew really hit on a guy and have him absolutely not notice? It wasn't because he didn't like you (well, maybe he didn't, but some of them did) it was because he was oblivious to your signals.

Older men pick up on the signals better, which is why many divorced men date younger women. They have a savvy that younger men lack. Its compensation for grey hair, baldness, and a gut. The young guys have health and potential fitness, the old guys have potential wealth and the ability to see the signals a woman puts out... better than the young guys at least.

So we circle back to our errant hero here... He's dating a 20 year old, probably is blind with love for her, and he's freaking her shit out because he's at a different place than she is in life. He asks for advice from a bunch of older men. Their brain processes his situation and arrives at the following conclusions:

• She's not ready for the relationship he wants.
• He's triggering her avoidance reaction because he expresses that he cares so much.
• The odds of this working for him in the long run are extremely low.
• He is much more likely to get dumped, slowly and painfully, until he realizes it and walks or she gets really direct and says "...just friends... need my space... etc."
• Our hero could probably use a few more relationships too, he's a bit too willing to sacrifice himself and does not see it.
• Sex with 20 year olds isn't as fun as it is with grown women, but their bodies are fun to play with if you can keep them quiet long enough to enjoy them.

Noting all that, a doomed relationship and a knight errant on a fools quest... the best advice is to tell him to try to enjoy the ride but be ready for it to end abruptly. Add in the level of comfort and coarseness here at f13 (it's not 4chan but still...) and what people post is:

"Fuck her, her mother, her sister, and her dog if she has one. Then leave them all."

What anyone reading between the lines to ignore the machismo and humor will see:

"Dude, life is too short! Have some fun! The odds of this working out are pretty damn low, and while I wish you the best, you should really just focus on having a good time with her and enjoying what she has to offer. Even if that means you slowly come to accept that it's doomed. If it works out and I'm wrong, you will have enjoyed the ride to a very good place. If it works out that I'm right, you will have enjoyed the ride and can walk away at the end with no regrets. Either way, enjoy the ride, creating misery isn't a good way to live."

Sure, you have to read between the lines, and it's easier to say "You are all a bunch of pigs and have confirmed my thoughts about you." but to be honest, I'd tell a young girl the same thing. She should enjoy the ride and have some fun, at that age the ride is much more important than the destination.

Hell, at my age, the ride is what matters. I can't control what is going to happen in my life, but I can at least try to enjoy the ride with my wife and make something good of it with her.

Doesn't that make sense? Does it really matter that they just said "Fuck her and run?" to be internet cool? I don't think so. :)

...and thus ends my overly long random post for the month. ;P

This is good, but I just wanted to add that we older guys know that we won't listen to us anyway because he's young and stupid. 

[Azazel]

Older men pick up on the signals better

I don't know. Not to say that an older, married or divorced guy doesn't know things, but something as simple as growing up with a good sister or mom helps too (a good mom or sister in the sense of telling you the truth. Not silly momma's boy shit). Or a dad who has been around the block. Having some insight about the opposite sex is supposed to happen a helluva lot sooner than some post-divorce dating phase, I'd think! 

That stuff might help, but if you don't think you'll be better at picking up on signals and other non-verbal cues in another 5-10 years you're kidding yourself. Unless you're totally oblivious now and forever.   

[Paelos]

My only contribution was that I saw the thread title and thought someone realized they were gay. In that respect, this thread disappoints.

[Merusk]

It's not older men alone, it's men who just fucking pay attention.

Hell, an 8 year old boy wrote a book on picking-up women*. It's not fucking rocket science, people. We were doing it long before language, much less culture and our Emo need to over analyze every goddamn thing.

* Note said kid is on Leno tonight.

[stray]

Older men pick up on the signals better

I don't know. Not to say that an older, married or divorced guy doesn't know things, but something as simple as growing up with a good sister or mom helps too (a good mom or sister in the sense of telling you the truth. Not silly momma's boy shit). Or a dad who has been around the block. Having some insight about the opposite sex is supposed to happen a helluva lot sooner than some post-divorce dating phase, I'd think! 

That stuff might help, but if you don't think you'll be better at picking up on signals and other non-verbal cues in another 5-10 years you're kidding yourself. Unless you're totally oblivious now and forever.  

Personally, I don't need to do anything. I'm just fucking lush.



/going for broke here, don't mind me

[Signe]

I think that anyone, regardless of age, physical appearance, gender, sexual orientation, whatever, can get laid.  If you can't, you're just really really lazy.  There are men who fall in love with sheep.  There are women standing in line to marry serial killers.  Getting laid is mostly a no brainer.  There are tons of girls that Photek could simply bang and forget.  If he really likes this girl, why would he do that?  Even if there's no chance of a relationship right now, maybe there could be later.  Unless he just uses her like most of you suggest.  At least he did get some more sensible advice.

ANYONE CAN GET LAID!  Even you lot, which, I guess, just sounds more unbelievable than it really is.

[stray]

If he really likes this girl, why would he do that?

I guess only he could answer that. I've been somewhere close before. In my own personal case, this kind of insistence came down to.. a sort of selfish liking, I guess. A little too much thought into what you think that person does for you or what you think they could do for you.. It's also happened to me a couple of times, and the girls didn't really know a thing about me.

[Engels]

If he really likes this girl, why would he do that? 

reciprocity?

[Selby]

ANYONE CAN GET LAID!

I beg to differ.  Some of us have really rotten personalities or are just plain ugly tree personified and have zero chance of ever getting laid.

[stray]

Selby.. Meet Stuart ;)

[photek]

To be fair, I wouldn't tell anyone to fuck the dog, even if they had one. Maybe... spray paint the dog. Especially if it's a yippy little fucker.

She has one of those too, maybe I will take you up on this 

So I just caught up with this thread and damn its full of insight and opinions. However, after our last conversation on Sunday where I told her "things can't go on like this", she actually called me on Monday wondering if I wanted to come over and help her do her math (integrals FTLl) and hang out and so I did. I took the advice from some around here and were far more laid back and I noticed she was really friendly and happy when I showed up and kinda went back to the days we met, stroking and cuddling, and really put an effort and listened to what I had to say. Shit was awesome and I spent the night. VICTORY!!

Morning after she made me breakfast (waffles and ice-cream FTW) and she was still on top of her attitude just like the day before and was actually happy, we went out to town, did some shopping and later that night we ate at the best steakhouse in town. Took her home and spent the night again. Day after was basically just as awesome where we got some serious talk in and she had given it some thought and really loved spending time with me and basically that shit was awesome right now. Summary : Being laid back and just enjoying the present really works great. I was too pushy and overwhelming and I can agree on that, but this really made a difference. Stuff has been going on like this now and I wont fuck this up with emotional psychobabble.

Thank you Dr.Phil F13 for saving my relationship.  

Nah really, great advice from some of you, this thread should be changed to ATTN : Young Fools In Love READ THIS!

[nurtsi]

This thing

[IainC]

So no terrible poetry then?

[Ironwood]

Older men pick up on the signals better

I don't know. Not to say that an older, married or divorced guy doesn't know things, but something as simple as growing up with a good sister or mom helps too (a good mom or sister in the sense of telling you the truth. Not silly momma's boy shit). Or a dad who has been around the block. Having some insight about the opposite sex is supposed to happen a helluva lot sooner than some post-divorce dating phase, I'd think! 

Anyhow, I definitely don't long for highschool. My situation probably couldn't be any better than it is now. Highschool would only be nice in the sense that I can be lazy, and at school, people are everywhere. You gotta put yourself out there when you're older, but that's it.

I didn't say this.

[photek]

So no terrible poetry then?

Not before valentines at least 

[Ironwood]

Older men pick up on the signals better, which is why many divorced men date younger women.

...

Yeah, that's exactly why.

 

I meant they are successful at it despite being older and divorced. TBH I don't know why any young hot chick would want to date me if my wife left me, but I'm confident I could land a few. My assumption is because my ability to pick up their signals is much improved even if it does me nothing. :)

The sentence should probably have read "which is why many divorced men are able to date younger women".

Saying that's why they do it just made me laugh.

They do it because of the really tight wee fannies.

At a guess.

[Signe]

ANYONE CAN GET LAID!

I beg to differ.  Some of us have really rotten personalities or are just plain ugly tree personified and have zero chance of ever getting laid.

Don't be ridiculous.  You don't have to have a personality.  You don't have be pretty, either.  You don't even have to smell nice.  People fuck fruit and vegetables!  Just get off your silly arse and ask someone!

[Slayerik]

ANYONE CAN GET LAID!

I beg to differ.  Some of us have really rotten personalities or are just plain ugly tree personified and have zero chance of ever getting laid.

Don't be ridiculous.  You don't have to have a personality.  You don't have be pretty, either.  You don't even have to smell nice.  People fuck fruit and vegetables!  Just get off your silly arse and ask someone!

She is right.

Case in point: Met a woman I worked with (actually supported with her computer) with a week ago. Felt a vibe, asked her out. Had dinner and fooled around a couple nights later. Last night we left work and went to a cheap motel and had sex five times (yes, really). It's just that easy!!! I don't have personality! I'm just good at faking it :) I don't wear deodorant, cause I think a man's scent can attract women. I am a sexy mofo though.

I don't remember it ever being so easy. Confidence, confidence, confidence.

[Grimwell]

Signe is right, anyone can get laid; it's just that some folks don't know how. ;)

I'm glad our young hero has figured out that enjoying the ride is the way to go. Grats man.

[trias_e]

She is right.

Case in point: Met a woman I worked with (actually supported with her computer) with a week ago. Felt a vibe, asked her out. Had dinner and fooled around a couple nights later. Last night we left work and went to a cheap motel and had sex five times (yes, really). It's just that easy!!! I don't have personality! I'm just good at faking it :) I don't wear deodorant, cause I think a man's scent can attract women. I am a sexy mofo though.

I don't remember it ever being so easy. Confidence, confidence, confidence.

What is this vibe you speak of, and where can I find one?

Seriously though, as someone who has gone through college, the 'easy years', without any success..it isn't easy for everyone.  Just isn't.  Basically, if you're nervous or awkward in social situations and not strikingly interesting or attractive, you're in poor shape.*

*This should be somewhat predicated by the fact that I find banging unattractive girls to be a negative experience overall and not worth it.  However, of course one can get laid even with horrible interpersonal grace when the target is desparate enough that they will take anything they can get.

[Slayerik]

Shit man, it wasn't easy for me back then either...I did ok, but I was lacking confidence. Now I don't care. The worst thing that can happen is she might say no. Do little things to approve your appearance, not even that it so much matters but it might help self confidence. Buy yourself a new shirt, some jewelry or something. Smile more. Improve your posture.

Another basic thing I recommend for guys with no game, is to read "The Game" by Neil Strauss. Some guys might find it basic, but there were a couple very nice insights to the female (and male) psyche.

The number one thing I found out, and it may be from a Chris Rock routine but it is true, is that women really want a guy they can talk to. Just ask the right questions that allow them to vent about work, relationships, family, etc. And try to listen. They are impressed when you actually remember stuff from their talking marathons. The problem is when you are trying to remember which of the three said what. ;)

[trias_e]

No doubt what you say is true.  Hopefully as I move on I become more zen about the whole thing.  Balancing desire with lack of desire is perhaps the ultimate thing to figure out.  I have too much desire, which leads to failure.  Of course no desire and I wouldn't give a shit at all.  But in some respect, not caring, as you mention, seems fairly essential.

[stray]

Very few people are as unattractive as they think are. Unless they've got puss nearly squirting out of your face or something. Or there's a shitstain somewhere. Or they actually smell like shit. Or... they talk a lot of shit. I think some people can be way too hard on themselves. Not saying you're going to be a player (and half of that is if you even want to be), but anyone can clean up and get in better shape.

[Slayerik]

No doubt what you say is true.  Hopefully as I move on I become more zen about the whole thing.  Balancing desire with lack of desire is perhaps the ultimate thing to figure out.  I have too much desire, which leads to failure.  Of course no desire and I wouldn't give a shit at all.  But in some respect, not caring, as you mention, seems fairly essential.

He actually touches on this in the book. You have to force yourself not to care. He says almost exactly what you said.... too much desire=failure

I can really look back now and think about how many times me being overly nice or trying to hard has fucked me. A different woman at work now showed interest (emailed me asking about the fact that I wasn't wearing my ring) so I have just been totally casual and not responding all fast and shit. When I do, I show little interest or joke about it, occasionally throwing in teases. Basically, I don't give a fuck. This has already got her to ask ME out, and wanting to go for walks and shit here. Maybe one of these days I'll grace her with my presense. lol

[Draegan]

I read the first two pages and didn't bother with the rest so I don't know what derail you guys are on.  But my advice for the original question is...

...You're only 24 so that means if you're still getting laid on a daily basis just go with it.

[Fraeg]

So no terrible poetry then?

Not before valentines at least 

I recommend this as a sure fire way to win her love, write it out on black paper per IainC's suggestion, amateurs use silver pens, pros use their own blood (or blood from a thawing steak if you are squeemish:


There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a little black spot on the sun today
(That`s my soul up there)
It's the same old thing as yesterday
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a black hat caught in a high tree top
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a flag-pole rag and the wind won't stop
(That`s my soul up there)

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a fossil that's trapped in a high cliff wall
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a dead salmon frozen in a waterfall
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a blue whale beached by a spring tide's ebb
(That`s my soul up there)
There's a butterfly trapped in a spider's web
(That`s my soul up there)

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

There's a king on a throne with his eyes torn out
There's a blind man looking for a shadow of doubt
There's a rich man sleeping on a golden bed
There's a skeleton choking on a crust of bread

King of pain

There's a red fox torn by a huntsman's pack
There's a black-winged gull with a broken back
There's a little black spot on the sun today
It's the same old thing as yesterday

I have stood here before inside the pouring rain
With the world turning circles running 'round my brain
I guess I'm always hoping that you'll end this reign
But it's my destiny to be the king of pain

King of pain
I'll always be king of pain
I'll always be king of pain


Sting and the boys will be proud.

Seriously though, glad to hear some of the advice on this thread proved useful, cheers, and enjoy your saturday.

[Yoru]

Morning after she made me breakfast (waffles and ice-cream FTW) and she was still on top of her attitude just like the day before and was actually happy, we went out to town, did some shopping and later that night we ate at the best steakhouse in town.

See? I told you good red meat would work. 

Getting waffles, though, that's something. I had a waffle last Friday, although I don't remember it thanks to half a liter of schnapps. I suggest you reciprocate with flapjacks at some point in the near future. Or brownies if she's into sweets.

[stray]

Waffles and pancakes are perfect, if you ever find yourself poor and homeless.