Patch 3.1 -Preview-

[bhodi]

As opposed to the minigame now, which is cast cast cast wait for proc use proc use abilities that make spells manaless to extend the 5s cast time window.

[K9]

You can't really compare mage and priest mana mechanics though :p

I already stack int on my priest, if you're going after any other regen stat you're gimping yourself.

[Venkman]

As opposed to the minigame now, which is cast cast cast wait for proc use proc use abilities that make spells manaless to extend the 5s cast time window.

Yep. But I'm one of those that actually LIKES that. One-dimensionality is cathartic.

[kildorn]

Phbbt, I have a resto shaman. The difference between in five second and out of five second is like, 20 mp5.

My main issue with raid healing and mana regen:

Without replenishment, everyone struggles for mana and has to pay attention and abuse 5sr/water shield mechanics.

With replenishment, healers have infinite mana without really thinking about it.

That's a stupid mechanic.

[K9]

Replenishment is certainly a more logical target for a nerf than OO5SR regen. Though holydins could take a slap or two to their efficiency even without replenishment.

[Oz]

it almost feels liek the 5sR mana regen changes are intended to help disco priests a little and hurt holy priests a little, thus making disco priests a little more desireable.

At least that's they way they seem to me (ex-holy and ex-shadow, now disco for life)

[Gobbeldygook]

You're right about that - I've done very little pvp since WOTLK because it seems just completely broken for hunters - although from complaints I've heard, many people say it's broken.

Since the last patch, hunters have been broken in the sense that they immediately hopped onto the list of specs everyone hates and prays gets nerfed to the ground.  The bitching mostly revolves around Lock & Load (Frost Trap and Serpent sting/Other Traps/ are on different internal cooldowns, so you get a LNL proc every 24 seconds when someone's on your frost trap and serpent sting procs now and then) and TNT (15% chance to get a well-timed mace stun whenever you fire an explosive shot) which add up to hunters randomly blowing people up.

A particularly well-known 2200 rated hunter was unaffected by the explosive shot hotfix nerf because it made him realize he'd been using rank 1 explosive shot since 70.  Then another one, widely regarded as one of the best hunters in the world in BC, said thanks because he'd been doing the same thing.

[Fordel]

Replenishment is going to be the mechanic they will give to the 'pure' DPS classes, so they will shut up about "why bring me when you can bring a class that can DPS AND HEAL AND TANK OMG!!!"

Instead of Tank/Heal/CC it'll be Tank/Heal/Replenishment

[Soulflame]

Right, but why bring a paladin for replenishment, when you can bring a dps that beats him by 10% and also provides replenishment?   

[kildorn]

Right, but why bring a paladin for replenishment, when you can bring a dps that beats him by 10% and also provides replenishment?   

Blessings, honestly. But if you're already covered for all the key blessings, fuck em.

The issue pre patch was "the raid lacks replenishment, ditch some redundant dps for it or we're going to struggle through simple content"

Really, the entire issue boils down to "encounters are being built around replenishment, this is a stupid fucking mechanic and just giving it to everyone doesn't make it less stupid, just less tedious"

[Fordel]

Because he can tank and heal omgz!  

[K9]

I wouldn't trade our retardin for any other replenishment class except maybe a survival hunter. He kites zombies on gluth like a champion, and is a handy off-tank for 4hm. His DPS is a bit variable depending on raid comp, but he's definitely an example of "bring the player".

[Sjofn]

Mmmm, no ammo anymore, nom nom nom.

I read these complaints about hunters and I really, truly cannot understand them. My hunter's role is ranged dps. It's always BEEN ranged dps. It will always BE ranged dps. It's really rather good ranged dps, too.

Also, take the notion of "remove autoshot and then make the regular shots WAY MEANER" and shove it up your butt. I say that with love. But if I wanted to play a mage, I would play a fuckin' mage. And I hate playing mages.

[Merusk]

Too bad Blizz balances you like a mage.  THAT is one of the wonderful  quotes from Ghostcrawler.  "We consider hunters to be casters."   

The complaints stem from PVP play.  Like I said, death of 1000 papercuts works fine in PvE. In some ways it's what keeps hunters towards the top (misses mean less, if they happen.)  However it means your opponents just get to walk up to you and cleave you in 3 shots in pvp while you've shot them 14 times for 1/2 their health.

[Hindenburg]

My hunter's role is ranged dps. It's always BEEN ranged dps. It will always BE ranged dps. It's really rather good ranged dps, too.

It's actually a combination of melee+ranged phys dps, which is why they should be under rogues and above everything else but demo locks.

[Sjofn]

My hunter's role is ranged dps. It's always BEEN ranged dps. It will always BE ranged dps. It's really rather good ranged dps, too.

It's actually a combination of melee+ranged phys dps, which is why they should be under rogues and above everything else but demo locks.

It is not a combination of melee+ranged. It's pretty much all ranged. You can't do shit worth a damn in melee.


EDIT: Also, I haven't PvP'd on my hunter in a long time, because they're trying to make people do arena, which I fucking hate. I'd just as soon not PvP. So if all these complaints are related to that, yeah, I dunno about that. But a lot of the complaints sound like they go for both - and like it or not, WoW is pretty much PvE first, PvP second.

[Fordel]

If your hunter is doing melee 'dps', you're doing it wrong.



Merusk: They also consider Mortal Strike to be a 'spell'. It's almost like Dev's use the terms in a different context.  

[Hindenburg]

Fucksake, your PET.

[Ingmar]

GC has several times in the last few weeks said that the 'pure' dps classes are mage, warlock, rogue, and hunter, and they want them to be all around the same numbers, all else being equal. Everyone else is supposed to be back a little, all else being equal.

In practice the better players typically do more damage regardless of class, except at the very high end of play where basically everyone is a good player with equal gear access.

[Sjofn]

Fucksake, your PET.

Please, the pet is pretty much ranged too. I'M not in any danger while my pet chews on someone's ass.

[Azazel]

more stupidity

What you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

You have to hand it to him though. - every new post he just tops himself. Now I wish he would just go off and top himsef.

[Hindenburg]

Please, the pet is pretty much ranged too. I'M not in any danger while my pet chews on someone's ass.

Doesn't change the fact that it's at melee range. Also doesn't cover up your horrendously faulty memory 

[Lantyssa]

No, it's an arrow that keeps stabbing the target.  It might be melee from the pet's perspective, but it's not from the Hunter's.

[Hindenburg]

Are we seriously gonna have this debate? 

[Lantyssa]

Depends if you're going to agree with us or not.

[Oban]

Are you really saying that a Hunter's pet does ranged attacks exclusively?

[Lantyssa]

No, it's an arrow Damage over Time spell that keeps stabbing hurting the target.  It might be melee from the pet's perspective, but it's not from the Hunter's player's.

Looking at it from design perspective, yes, I really am saying that.

[Venkman]

Is Lant really that far off? Pets have been considered DoTs since, like, forever.

[Hindenburg]

She is.

[Lantyssa]

Please elaborate then, because I can't wrap my head around it.

[Hindenburg]

Parry, dodge, mitigation, procs, positioning, avoidance, health, tanking, talents, pet talents.

Saying that a pet is a hunter's dot is as asinine as saying that a rogue is a priest's dot. Please stop pretending you're mentally challenged.

[Lantyssa]

...

[Modern Angel]

You do realize that hunter pets fall under melee mechanics, not dot mechanics, right? That they can be parried, etc as was mentioned?

[Fordel]

Explain how putting the hunter pet on a target, puts the hunter into same level of 'danger' another melee class would.

The pets are fire and forget 90% of the time. They are DoTs with infinite duration and special bonuses. They are entirely expendable and revive-able with their own special avoidance, resist bonuses and healing bonuses. Losing a hunter pet is NOT comparable to an actual melee class dieing.

The fact this DoT stabs things instead of Ticks magical damage is irrelevant in reference to the hunters role as DPS and is not justification for 'always being on top' of the meters or whatever.



Using that ('pets are melee so are hunters') logic, Paladins and DeathKnights would be casters and my Balance druid would be a melee class thanks to my Tree's.

When you start dropping Mongoose bites on a boss for awesome damage, then you can wave the melee dps flag.

[Hindenburg]

Which is why the initial point is that hunters are melee+ranged hybrids, and, as such, should be below rogues.

Reading is hard, eh?