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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company) 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477166 times)
bhodi
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No lie.


Reply #490 on: September 12, 2011, 08:35:32 AM

I see absolutely no joint advantage to running barefoot or in rubber-bottomed socks.  Considering the work that has been done on my knees over the years, I can't even imagine running in anything less than a well-cushioned trainer.  

Is there any research backing these new toe shoes?  I can see them being great as water socks or for climbing, but not for running.  
There are some not really ironclad studies (nature, performed by this lab), cautiously showing there may be benefits. That one centers around the fact that heelstrikes are bad and, if you have lousy posture, feedback quickly corrects your barefoot running form to prevent heelstrikes. There's also some ancillary evidence talking about more strength in some of the smaller muscle groups used for balance which can also prevent injury.

But they're awful for climbing. You can't really climb in them because of the separated toes. Instead of your weight being spread out over your entire foot, it's concentrated generally on your big toe. They've got the grip (most climbing shoes are made with vibram rubber) but you can't lever all your weight on a single toe.

They're good for water, obviously, assuming you get the full foot one. Unfortunately, sand DOES still get in them and it's pretty obnoxious.

I ran a 5k in them earlier this year, for what it's worth.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2011, 08:37:42 AM by bhodi »
shiznitz
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the plural of mangina


Reply #491 on: September 12, 2011, 09:25:42 AM

I worry some about the shit the sprinkle on the greens and fairways.  I get enough pesticides and fertilizer in my diet.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Don't lick your feet and it won;t matter what's on them.

I have never played WoW.
Nebu
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Reply #492 on: September 12, 2011, 10:40:08 AM

There are some not really ironclad studies (nature, performed by this lab), cautiously showing there may be benefits. That one centers around the fact that heelstrikes are bad and, if you have lousy posture, feedback quickly corrects your barefoot running form to prevent heelstrikes. There's also some ancillary evidence talking about more strength in some of the smaller muscle groups used for balance which can also prevent injury.

Makes a lot of sense.  Thanks for the links.  I'm surprised I missed the Nature paper as I usually read Nature.  I can see how it would be corrective to form and help ancillary muscles, but knowing a bit about the calculation of forces, the knee takes quite a pounding over time.  I have to think that cushioned shoes are still far superior with regard to maximizing cartilage life and durability.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Der Helm
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Reply #493 on: September 12, 2011, 10:42:26 AM

Could that be because the human body is not "designed" ( Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? ) to last as long as it does these days ?

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
Nebu
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Reply #494 on: September 12, 2011, 10:45:06 AM

Could that be because the human body is not "designed" ( Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? ) to last as long as it does these days ?

I was going to mention that, but didn't want to start that discussion for the Nth time.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Der Helm
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Reply #495 on: September 12, 2011, 11:25:02 AM

You are welcome, then.  awesome, for real

Carry on.

"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
ghost
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Reply #496 on: September 12, 2011, 12:12:53 PM

I worry some about the shit the sprinkle on the greens and fairways.  I get enough pesticides and fertilizer in my diet.   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Don't lick your feet and it won;t matter what's on them.

Hey, if you can play golf without licking your feet then you must be a better player than I am. 
Cyrrex
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Reply #497 on: September 12, 2011, 10:43:09 PM

As a funny aside, I played golf in my vibrams the other day and it was pretty awesome.  

As long as you are aware that you looked like a complete tool, then I suppose that's cool  awesome, for real

The only research I've ever heard of on those things amounts to "hey! our primitive ancestors NEVER wore shoes!"  Of course, they also lived to be about 32.  Maybe because they couldn't run fast enough to escape the big scary dinosaurs and stuff.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #498 on: September 13, 2011, 02:09:53 AM

I see absolutely no joint advantage to running barefoot or in rubber-bottomed socks.  Considering the work that has been done on my knees over the years, I can't even imagine running in anything less than a well-cushioned trainer.  

Is there any research backing these new toe shoes?  I can see them being great as water socks or for climbing, but not for running.  

So in the last week since we had this discussion, I've been doing a fair bit of reading around on this topic  There are a lot of studies about running injuries, shoes vs barefoot, footstrike and gait etc..  I didn't have time (or money) to read many of them though. But this article from sportsscience.org does an overview of a lot of studies (and references them) from as far back as 1983. There are studies that show that padded shoes appear to cause more injuries - like this one - but it's written by someone who may, or may not, have a vested interest.

A more recent, 2007 study (Incidence and determinants of lower extremity running injuries in long distance runners: a systematic review) explicitly reviewed over 1000 studies and found that only 17 studies matched their criteria. Even then, I have some queries about their findings (namely - they found that most injuries ocurred in the knee but they don't appear to show the nature of those injuries which could be cartilage or could be patellafemoral etc.) They also didn't seem to include many studies on the effect of shoes but that might be me not understanding their tables. A lot of my takeaway from reading this that all the other studies provide low quality or conflicting results.

tl;dr - no studies have conclusively shown that barefoot running lowers or increases injury rate BUT equally, no studies have conclusively shown that padded trainers lower or increase injury rate either.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2011, 02:12:49 AM by DraconianOne »

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Sky
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Reply #499 on: September 13, 2011, 06:26:23 AM

Swim instead.

Barefoot.
DraconianOne
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Reply #500 on: September 13, 2011, 07:02:14 AM

Swim instead.

Barefoot.

Studies have shown that you're more likely to get attacked by a shark while swimming barefoot than you are if you go running barefoot.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Sky
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I love my TV an' hug my TV an' call it 'George'.


Reply #501 on: September 13, 2011, 07:42:04 AM

I should have a word with the lifeguards at the pool, then.
Merusk
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Reply #502 on: September 13, 2011, 09:23:48 AM

Swimming can fuck you up in other ways.. but it takes a long, long ass time to do it.  (Hello hyperextended knee and tendonitis of the shoulders.)

On the other hand, I remember hearing a recent study found that regular swimmers lived longer than even people in better shape than themselves.  Nobody's quite figured out why.  I should add the pool back in to my routine now that I've got muscles again.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
K9
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Reply #503 on: September 14, 2011, 03:51:24 PM

How do you define 'better shape' though?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
JWIV
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Reply #504 on: October 13, 2011, 02:12:50 PM

Picked up my bib tonight.  First half on Saturday - my daughter is going to be doing the kids run with Mommy while Daddy tries to remember he thought running 13.1 miles was a good idea.

Furiously
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WWW
Reply #505 on: October 13, 2011, 09:53:32 PM

Is there crab at the end?

DraconianOne
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Reply #506 on: October 14, 2011, 12:57:56 PM

Picked up my bib tonight.  First half on Saturday - my daughter is going to be doing the kids run with Mommy while Daddy tries to remember he thought running 13.1 miles was a good idea.

Good luck JWIV - hope it goes well and, more than that, hope you enjoy it!

On a side note, I signed up for Fitocracy today after seeing the XKCD.com cartoon about it (and then found that it's all over CNN too). It's basically an exercised based social game with MMO/RPG-esque mechanics. You earn "XP" for any exercises you do and get levels, complete quests, earn achievements and other shit. Amused me for at least half an hour (and fortunately ties in with RunKeeper which is what I normally save my workouts too).

Anyone else signed up on it at all?

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
luckton
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Reply #507 on: October 14, 2011, 04:20:16 PM

Picked up my bib tonight.  First half on Saturday - my daughter is going to be doing the kids run with Mommy while Daddy tries to remember he thought running 13.1 miles was a good idea.

Good luck JWIV - hope it goes well and, more than that, hope you enjoy it!

On a side note, I signed up for Fitocracy today after seeing the XKCD.com cartoon about it (and then found that it's all over CNN too). It's basically an exercised based social game with MMO/RPG-esque mechanics. You earn "XP" for any exercises you do and get levels, complete quests, earn achievements and other shit. Amused me for at least half an hour (and fortunately ties in with RunKeeper which is what I normally save my workouts too).

Anyone else signed up on it at all?

I signed up to get notice about it, but I'm not 'in'.  Is there anyone actually in that hook a playa' up?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
JWIV
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Reply #508 on: October 15, 2011, 01:58:02 AM

Picked up my bib tonight.  First half on Saturday - my daughter is going to be doing the kids run with Mommy while Daddy tries to remember he thought running 13.1 miles was a good idea.

Good luck JWIV - hope it goes well and, more than that, hope you enjoy it!

On a side note, I signed up for Fitocracy today after seeing the XKCD.com cartoon about it (and then found that it's all over CNN too). It's basically an exercised based social game with MMO/RPG-esque mechanics. You earn "XP" for any exercises you do and get levels, complete quests, earn achievements and other shit. Amused me for at least half an hour (and fortunately ties in with RunKeeper which is what I normally save my workouts too).

Anyone else signed up on it at all?

I signed up to get notice about it, but I'm not 'in'.  Is there anyone actually in that hook a playa' up?

Yep - I'm on it as jwiv

Luckton - check your PMs, I sent you an invite link.

stray
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has an iMac.


Reply #509 on: October 15, 2011, 01:59:38 AM

This is a perfect workout for fatasses trying to reclaim lost glory. Possibly played football once, but then got married and became a middle manager.

Won't do any wonders for the scrawny geek demographic. They've got it harder actually.
climbjtree
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Reply #510 on: October 15, 2011, 03:04:55 AM

Edit: Thanks JWIV. In as rldmoto.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 03:28:19 AM by climbjtree »
climbjtree
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Reply #511 on: October 15, 2011, 03:43:00 AM

Ok, so I logged my last work out and jumped to level four immediately, got an achievement and then spent some time rooting around through the quests to see when I'd be getting other achievements.

This thing is pretty sweet, and I dig the social aspect of it. Definitely going to recommend it to other friends of mine.

I also think that you don't need to be someone who's a fitness nut to get involved. It's got descriptions of all the exercises you'd want to do and I really think the social aspect of it will provide motivation for people who aren't super into working out.
luckton
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Reply #512 on: October 15, 2011, 06:26:09 AM


Luckton - check your PMs, I sent you an invite link.



Thanks, mang!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"Those lights, combined with the polygamous Nazi mushrooms, will mess you up."

"Tuning me out doesn't magically change the design or implementation of said design. Though, that'd be neat if it did." -schild
Merusk
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Reply #513 on: October 15, 2011, 07:15:21 PM

Looks interesting. I signed up just to check it out when it's open.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Cyrrex
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Reply #514 on: October 16, 2011, 10:42:40 PM

How does it work, exactly?  Are you guys in some sort of group/guild, or is it just every man for himself?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #515 on: October 17, 2011, 01:03:09 AM

How does it work, exactly?  Are you guys in some sort of group/guild, or is it just every man for himself?

There are groups you can join but on the whole, it's everyone for themselves. I've added an F13 tag to my profile (which is TrailDragon there rather than this one) Haven't delved into it far beyond that apart from having a look at some of the achievements and quests. Danger for me with it all is letting my achiever side take over and try to get achievements done at the expense of my own training goals (yes I might like to be able to deadlift twice my own body weight but I'm not sure it's going to help me).

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Cyrrex
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Reply #516 on: October 17, 2011, 02:15:31 AM

Well, I'm curious.  Any way I can get an invite, or is it just closed at this point?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #517 on: October 17, 2011, 02:37:52 AM

DM me your email and I'll send you an invite. (I got in by logging in with my Runkeeper account so if you have one of those, you could try that.)

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Cyrrex
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Reply #518 on: October 17, 2011, 03:05:48 AM

PM Sent

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Reply #519 on: October 17, 2011, 03:54:29 AM

I added the F13 tag to my profile and went ahead and created an F13 group. That's probably easier than trying to follow everyone, as I think our workouts are automatically posted to groups.

I sent invites to JWIV and TrailDragon, but I'm pretty sure the group is open.

And oh, someone make a better logo. I just cropped the f13.net logo from here.
NowhereMan
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Reply #520 on: October 17, 2011, 04:33:17 AM

If any of you are SomethingAwful members the Watch and Woot board there has been pretty excited over this, unsurprisingly one or two of the development guys for it are goons and they've been giving out free accounts to anyone on SA that asks.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Cyrrex
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Reply #521 on: October 24, 2011, 05:27:01 AM

DM me your email and I'll send you an invite. (I got in by logging in with my Runkeeper account so if you have one of those, you could try that.)

Belated thanks for the invite.

I find this....interesting.  I don't really have motivation problems when it comes to working out (I usually have the opposite problem....knowing when to take a freaking break).  Still, I find myself consciously thinking about this stuff when I am working out.

Some of the quests seem kind of weird and potentially counter-productive, but I could definitely see it being helpful to people who need a carrot to chase.

They need to figure out how to integrate some kind of random loot engine, so that I can have an avatar and eventually equip him with giant spikey shoulderpads.  I'm only half kidding.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Merusk
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Reply #522 on: October 24, 2011, 06:08:43 AM

I'm finding it's difficult to enter my workouts correctly.  Some of the machines my gym has don't seem to be on their lists, meaning I've got to pick the closest alternate.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
DraconianOne
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Reply #523 on: October 24, 2011, 01:05:57 PM

I'm finding it's difficult to enter my workouts correctly.  Some of the machines my gym has don't seem to be on their lists, meaning I've got to pick the closest alternate.

I found that today - two or three of the exercises I did (of six!) weren't in the list. You've reminded me that I need to email them about it.

Belated thanks for the invite.

I find this....interesting.  I don't really have motivation problems when it comes to working out (I usually have the opposite problem....knowing when to take a freaking break).  Still, I find myself consciously thinking about this stuff when I am working out.

Some of the quests seem kind of weird and potentially counter-productive, but I could definitely see it being helpful to people who need a carrot to chase.

They need to figure out how to integrate some kind of random loot engine, so that I can have an avatar and eventually equip him with giant spikey shoulderpads.  I'm only half kidding.

Yeah, I've noticed that about the quests and the achievements. I'll have to reign in my achiever tendencies so as not to decide to aim to be able to bench press my own weight or whatever it is. It's a tempting goal to work to but I absolutely do not need to do it. The sub 6 minute mile, however, is another story!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

The loot idea is.... interesting.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #524 on: October 24, 2011, 01:07:48 PM

Yeah, I've noticed that about the quests and the achievements. I'll have to reign in my achiever tendencies so as not to decide to aim to be able to bench press my own weight or whatever it is. It's a tempting goal to work to but I absolutely do not need to do it. The sub 6 minute mile, however, is another story!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I'll make you a deal.  I'll bench your body weight and you run the sub 6 mile for me.  We can powerlevel each other!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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