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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477182 times)
Nebu
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Reply #420 on: June 14, 2011, 08:47:33 AM

Your body does not need enough glucose as a primary source to justify not eating a diet high in protein and fat. Though this depends on your definition of "high". Yes, exclusion can be problematic. Yes a diet high in fiber is good. This does not mean that a regimented fast does not necessitate weight gain.

You don't need a lot of protein.  1g of lean protein per kg is more than enough unless you're an athlete or a body builder.  Fats are also subject to scrutiny.  The type is every bit as important as the quantity. 

I know you know this, just saying more for reference. 

I'm very interested in nutritional biochemistry and micronutrient delivery and triage.  I'd be happy to discuss any topics on this or another thread. 


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
JWIV
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Reply #421 on: June 26, 2011, 01:20:06 PM

Did my first 10K race over the weekend - Dreaded Druid Hills 10K.   I spent about a month of a half trying to add hills to as much of my practice runs as possible, and good lord,  I was still staring in horror at some of what I came across.   I mean there's hills, and then there's 1710 feet of ascent as you run up a hill, turn a corner thinking you're about to hit the flats, and realize no, it's MORE HILL.   ACK! 

I'll probably run it again next year.  Having never run one before, I was pretty happy with my time of 59:47, and hopefully as I continue to up my distance I can bring that down by quite a bit next year.
DraconianOne
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Reply #422 on: June 27, 2011, 01:13:54 AM

Did my first 10K race over the weekend - Dreaded Druid Hills 10K.   I spent about a month of a half trying to add hills to as much of my practice runs as possible, and good lord,  I was still staring in horror at some of what I came across.   I mean there's hills, and then there's 1710 feet of ascent as you run up a hill, turn a corner thinking you're about to hit the flats, and realize no, it's MORE HILL.   ACK! 

I'll probably run it again next year.  Having never run one before, I was pretty happy with my time of 59:47, and hopefully as I continue to up my distance I can bring that down by quite a bit next year.

That's a pretty respectable time for that distance with that ascent - especially if it's your first race (taking into account I know little about you, your build or your running history). Was it trail or road?

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
JWIV
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Reply #423 on: June 27, 2011, 01:29:36 AM

Did my first 10K race over the weekend - Dreaded Druid Hills 10K.   I spent about a month of a half trying to add hills to as much of my practice runs as possible, and good lord,  I was still staring in horror at some of what I came across.   I mean there's hills, and then there's 1710 feet of ascent as you run up a hill, turn a corner thinking you're about to hit the flats, and realize no, it's MORE HILL.   ACK! 

I'll probably run it again next year.  Having never run one before, I was pretty happy with my time of 59:47, and hopefully as I continue to up my distance I can bring that down by quite a bit next year.

That's a pretty respectable time for that distance with that ascent - especially if it's your first race (taking into account I know little about you, your build or your running history). Was it trail or road?

It's a road race - most of the run involves the service roads behind the Baltimore Zoo, so it's all under the shade at least and is actually a really pretty run. 
DraconianOne
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Reply #424 on: June 27, 2011, 05:40:40 AM

Rather than necessarily up the mileage, can I suggest that you have a look at these training programs: http://www2.furman.edu/SITES/FIRST/Pages/FirstTrainingPrograms.aspx - they're geared around three dedicated training sessions a week (with additional cross training as you see fit) and I've been using it in the run up to a mountain race in a few weeks time. After a few years of my pace stagnating, I've started running 8 miles in training at the same pace I was doing in a race 7 years ago - and I'm running less mileage a week too.

My hill training sucks sweaty balls though. I hate hills. Been doing squats, step ups and using the step machine in the gym in preparation but it's probably not enough.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
JWIV
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Reply #425 on: June 27, 2011, 06:03:05 AM

Rather than necessarily up the mileage, can I suggest that you have a look at these training programs: http://www2.furman.edu/SITES/FIRST/Pages/FirstTrainingPrograms.aspx - they're geared around three dedicated training sessions a week (with additional cross training as you see fit) and I've been using it in the run up to a mountain race in a few weeks time. After a few years of my pace stagnating, I've started running 8 miles in training at the same pace I was doing in a race 7 years ago - and I'm running less mileage a week too.

My hill training sucks sweaty balls though. I hate hills. Been doing squats, step ups and using the step machine in the gym in preparation but it's probably not enough.

My goal is to try and do a half in October, so yah, training schedules are good things.   The 3 days a week aspect of this one is pretty damn appealing. 
ghost
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Reply #426 on: July 11, 2011, 08:16:49 PM

So the wife and I started regular P90 about a month ago.  I've lost 10 pounds (205 from 215) and I'm pretty sure that I have a six pack underneath my belly flab now.  It's a good little workout for those not super athletic.  It does get repetitive though.  You can finish up the workout in about 40 minutes.   I would definitely recommend. 
ghost
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Reply #427 on: July 27, 2011, 02:52:01 PM

Another update-  now at 203, which isn't much of a loss from the 205 from a few weeks ago.  However I've been able to cinch up my belt by a loop and my pants are now super baggy.   awesome, for real
Merusk
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Reply #428 on: August 05, 2011, 07:15:37 AM

We should just rename this the fitness thread.

The part that sucks most about getting in shape after 20 years is the in-between stage.  You can feel the muscles forming, and you know it's beginning to kick in. However, the fat is starting to droop but isn't burning off quite fast enough so it just makes you feel unattractive and unsuccessful at your routine.

Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what's going on, but I can *see* abs under there that I couldn't 6 months ago.  I'm able to do more reps on the crunch machine with a much higher weight than when I started (and more weight on everything, actually) but the way things are starting to jiggle I feel like I've gotten fatter, not fitter.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
ghost
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Reply #429 on: August 08, 2011, 09:11:08 AM

Yeah, when you build muscle underneath the fat it makes it stand up more.  I am starting to get the six pack triangle now underneath my pudge.  I can see it there, but the fat must feel winter coming on.  It's going nowhere fast.   why so serious?
Nebu
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Reply #430 on: August 09, 2011, 08:03:41 AM

Yeah, when you build muscle underneath the fat it makes it stand up more.  I am starting to get the six pack triangle now underneath my pudge.  I can see it there, but the fat must feel winter coming on.  It's going nowhere fast.   why so serious?

1200 Cal a day with only complex carbs and only water to drink (1 gal per day).  If that doesn't get rid of 10 lbs in 4 weeks, nothing will.  Another way to make your 6 pack more defined is to start doing resistance work.

I've spent this summer doing almost exactly the opposite of what I've done my entire life... I'm trying to trim down from 205 lbs to about 185.  Being in my 40's, I find it much better to drop the bulk in favor of a leaner physique.  I'm sick of carrying the extra weight up and down mountains. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Merusk
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Reply #431 on: August 09, 2011, 09:18:48 AM

1200 cal a day. Wow I'd be a real son of a bitch. I'm mean enough on only 2k.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Nebu
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Reply #432 on: August 09, 2011, 09:33:04 AM

1200 cal a day. Wow I'd be a real son of a bitch. I'm mean enough on only 2k.

My cut program:

2 weeks on 1200 Cal, light lifting
2 weeks on 1800 Cal, heavy cardio, light lifting
2 weeks on 1500 Cal, light cardio, heavy lifting
2 weeks on 1800 Cal, heavy cardio, heavy lifting

I try to not go longer than 2 weeks below 1800 cal as it can induce a metabolic slowdown (perceived starvation mode).  Of course, this is knowing my own body well.  Your mileage may vary.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
ghost
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Reply #433 on: August 09, 2011, 09:57:10 AM

1200 calories per day isn't very realistic for most people.  1750 or maybe 1500 could work.  I don't like 1200 because it is certainly not something you'd want to do long term and it is easy to have a bad rebound from. 
Nebu
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Reply #434 on: August 09, 2011, 10:04:48 AM

1200 calories per day isn't very realistic for most people.  1750 or maybe 1500 could work.  I don't like 1200 because it is certainly not something you'd want to do long term and it is easy to have a bad rebound from. 

You need to cut 500 cal per day or burn 500 cal per day to lose 1 lb per week.  If people can't do 1200, then 1500 is just fine. 

I find that most people fail in their thinking that losing more than 2 lbs a week is a realistic goal. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
JWIV
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Reply #435 on: August 09, 2011, 10:15:58 AM

1200 calories per day isn't very realistic for most people.  1750 or maybe 1500 could work.  I don't like 1200 because it is certainly not something you'd want to do long term and it is easy to have a bad rebound from. 

You need to cut 500 cal per day or burn 500 cal per day to lose 1 lb per week.  If people can't do 1200, then 1500 is just fine. 

I find that most people fail in their thinking that losing more than 2 lbs a week is a realistic goal. 

Partially that's because everyone sees those initial weeks or diet claims and thinks that's somehow sustainable as opposed to mostly being due to a drastic cutback of salt from their diet and losing their  water bloat.
Nebu
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Reply #436 on: August 09, 2011, 10:24:59 AM

Partially that's because everyone sees those initial weeks or diet claims and thinks that's somehow sustainable as opposed to mostly being due to a drastic cutback of salt from their diet and losing their  water bloat.

Want to lose 10 lbs fast?  A laxative and a diuretic will do it.  

Most people have between 5-10 lbs of undigested/underdigested material in their small intestine/colon.  If you want a real eye opener, go on a 3 day, liquid only diet.  Drink fruit/vegetable juice with some psyllium in it for 3 days and watch what gets cleaned out of your system.  Doing this is what got me to change my diet for life.  

Lunch anyone?   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
« Last Edit: August 09, 2011, 10:29:12 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Minvaren
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Reply #437 on: August 09, 2011, 10:34:09 AM

I once read that a fair bit of the undigested stuff was red meat - any insight there, Nebu?

Also, thanks for the mention of breakfast/starting the metabolism in the morning earlier in this thread.  I had gained some weight earlier this year from inactivity, but even with a healthy diet and frequent exercise it wasn't coming off.  Adding a granola bar early in the AM tipped the scales (heh) over to a slow, steady weight loss again.

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Furiously
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Reply #438 on: August 09, 2011, 12:34:31 PM

Salads really are not horrid.

Sky
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Reply #439 on: August 09, 2011, 01:08:45 PM

Drink fruit/vegetable juice with some psilocybin in it for 3 days and watch what gets cleaned out of your system.
why so serious?
ghost
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Reply #440 on: August 09, 2011, 01:29:54 PM

I'm pretty limited on what I can eat anyway due to a gluten sensitivity.  We eat fairly healthy anyway-  lots of fruits and vegetables.  We shop on the outside of the store.  I don't count calories, but I've lost almost 20 pounds doing base level P90 for the past 50 days, and we haven't even gotten to the more advanced workout (they split it up into 1/2 and 3/4 workouts-  we're still on 1/2). 
DraconianOne
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Reply #441 on: August 10, 2011, 03:22:07 AM

I'm pretty limited on what I can eat anyway due to a gluten sensitivity.  We eat fairly healthy anyway-  lots of fruits and vegetables.  We shop on the outside of the store.  I don't count calories, but I've lost almost 20 pounds doing base level P90 for the past 50 days, and we haven't even gotten to the more advanced workout (they split it up into 1/2 and 3/4 workouts-  we're still on 1/2). 

Sounds like you're doing just fine then.

Further to Nebu's figures though, I personally think it's worth adding a commonly used Harris-Benedict equation to calculate your BMR (Basal Metabolic Rate - i.e. the amount of kCals you burn by just existing):

Women: 655 + ( 4.35 x weight in pounds ) + ( 4.7 x height in inches ) - ( 4.7 x age in years )
Men: 66 + ( 6.23 x weight in pounds ) + ( 12.7 x height in inches ) - ( 6.8 x age in year )

This figure is then multiplied by a factor that refelects your daily activity - I tend to use 1.1 or 1.2 for "mostly sedentary" seeing as how I'm a desk jockey for 40 hours a week.  That gives me, for example (someone of a similar stats and presumably build to Nebu - 6'2" and 205 pounds) a daily calorific need of ~2400kCal.

Having said all that, as I mentioned a page or two ago, I found calorie counting didn't help at the beginning of this year so I revisited my diet and changed what I was eating rather than the amount I was eating.  Again, like Nebu, I'm doing my best to avoid simple carbs and stick to a slow/carbs and a low GI diet with lots of lean, white protein meats. I'm also cutting back a lot on dairy (particularly cheese which is a big, fatty weakness for me).  This is working out fine for me as I've discovered a whole new love of cooking and experimenting with foods.

But I also have the additional aim of trying to retrain my body to more effectively burn fat stores rather than glycogen/carbs (for endurance reasons rather than six-pack reasons).


A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Merusk
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Reply #442 on: August 10, 2011, 04:33:04 AM

How odd.. using that calc I should be eating ~2350 calories a day (230#, 5'11) but at 2k-2.1k I'm just maintaining weight instead of losing it; even with 3 days at the gym for 1/2hour of weights 1/2 hour cardio/fat burn.

I guess the weekends are really hurting me more than I thought.. that or I'm really underestimating the calories in the dinners we're cooking at night.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
DraconianOne
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Reply #443 on: August 10, 2011, 04:49:07 AM

How odd.. using that calc I should be eating ~2350 calories a day (230#, 5'11) but at 2k-2.1k I'm just maintaining weight instead of losing it; even with 3 days at the gym for 1/2hour of weights 1/2 hour cardio/fat burn.

I guess the weekends are really hurting me more than I thought.. that or I'm really underestimating the calories in the dinners we're cooking at night.

As dull as it sounds, tracking what you eat for a couple of weeks can sometimes help to spot where any issues - if any - lie. It might be the weekends - a drink or two extra or just snacks that you forget to take into account. Or, yes, you're understimating meals.  Or, alternatively, your workouts are effectively converting body mass from fat to muscle so your body fat percentage is dropping but your weight isn't. ;)

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Merusk
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Reply #444 on: August 10, 2011, 04:53:52 AM

If I wind up 230# of muscle I'll look a bit freakish.   DRILLING AND MANLINESS  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Yeah, I should track meals better than just the mental accounting I'm doing. As far as snacks, I've had apples, bananas or a granola bar at work.. maybe some cheese or bread at home.  I'm not keeping snacks anymore and it's driving the family crazy.  They're all used to grazing and I'm done with enabling it.   I'll give that a shot and see how things actually are.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
ghost
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Reply #445 on: August 10, 2011, 07:09:25 AM

You gotta watch granola bars.  They are often full of crap and full of calories.  I have been eating a cup of fruit for lunch every day:  blueberries, strawberries and blackberries most often. 
Merusk
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Reply #446 on: August 10, 2011, 02:06:33 PM

Can't keep much fresh fruit at the office, it generates fruit flies within a day.  I don't eat the "granola bars" most folks think of - aka chewey quaker HFCS + Sugar + Chocolate crap.  I eat the Nature's Valley old-style crunchy ones - A little better for me and only 160 cal / 2 bars.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
Pezzle
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Reply #447 on: August 10, 2011, 05:54:18 PM

Ordered resistance bands and a mat tonight. 

My diet is already pretty good.  Whole fruits/veg and fish.  I snack on things like almonds and cashews along with a piece of fruit or two during the day instead of eating a normal lunch.  LOTS of water, no soda, almost no dairy.  I cook most of my own meals and do not eat much in the way of processed foods outside protein bars I guess? 

I am mobile enough and a fairly active cyclist.  Hopefully P90X works well for me!
Cyrrex
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Reply #448 on: August 10, 2011, 11:45:08 PM

So I've had a goal set for myself for the past couple of months that I've been working towards (having small goals helps you achieve big ones!).  I was aiming to be able to do sitting dumbell shoulder presses (military presses, whatever) with 90lbs in each hand, sans spotter (putting it just over my body weight).  I had just about worked up to 85 pounds...can't quite get up the first rep without a spotter.  80 is tough but doable for 6 to 8 reps.  I wanted to be able to do all this without putting on tons of weight that I would have to shed later, so I've been taking my time getting there.

And now I have moved back to Denmark after 5 years in the US.  I've joined up with the local fitness chain.  I think Danes must be a fairly wimpy race, because their dumbells only go up to 34 kilograms!  WTF?  That's like 75 pounds, for the uninformed among you.

So that's a goal I will never now achieve.  Not to mention the lack of challenge for dumbell bench presses.

I need a new goal.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
K9
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Reply #449 on: August 11, 2011, 02:53:20 AM

Switch to bar weights? Try and do 100kg OHP with a bar.

40kg in each hand for seated military press is pretty impressive.

I find pushing weighted dips and chins to be good goals for me, that and the elusive 100kg OHP (I can do 95, with leg drive, 100kg is just too much though).

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cyrrex
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Reply #450 on: August 11, 2011, 03:31:12 AM

I have a bulging disk in my L5, so I really only dare doing heavy overhead stuff from a seated position.

40kg in each hand for seated military press is pretty impressive.

iknowrite?  Which is precisely why I was trying to get there.   Shaking fist

Another problem with the local gym:  they seem to be allergic to decline bench presses, because they have no real apparatus for it.  That sucks for me, because my shoulder joints don't like going heavy on a flat bench (except with dumbbells for some reason, which I still haven't figured out).  Probably because my form is off somehow.  I feel decidedly less manly as a result.  I can't lift nearly as much on the flat bench.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #451 on: August 11, 2011, 03:35:06 AM

K9 - do I recall you once mentioning that you did CrossFit?

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
K9
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Reply #452 on: August 11, 2011, 06:15:00 AM

I flirted with it for a month or two, but the facilities I can use are really not geared right, and I'm happy with my routine of powerlifting and olympic lifts. The more I read about CrossFit the more I have come to think that there are some really good core principles in there (high tempo, varied workouts) that is tied up in an awful lot of voodoo. Their stance on bench presses (no bench press) is frankly idiotic, since it is such a core strength-building lift for the whole of the upper torso.

I have a bulging disk in my L5, so I really only dare doing heavy overhead stuff from a seated position.

40kg in each hand for seated military press is pretty impressive.

iknowrite?  Which is precisely why I was trying to get there.   Shaking fist

Another problem with the local gym:  they seem to be allergic to decline bench presses, because they have no real apparatus for it.  That sucks for me, because my shoulder joints don't like going heavy on a flat bench (except with dumbbells for some reason, which I still haven't figured out).  Probably because my form is off somehow.  I feel decidedly less manly as a result.  I can't lift nearly as much on the flat bench.



Decline benches are a bit rare indeed, I know we used to just prop a flat bench up on a step under one of the power racks to do decline, it was far from ideal though. What is the issue with your shoulder joints, is it pain or lack of coordination? I started locking my traps under the bar and it has greatly improved the stability and power of my bench, if you are not doing that you might want to look into it. Widening your grip could help too.

I don't know much about spinal injuries, so always stick to what feels safest.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
DraconianOne
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Reply #453 on: August 11, 2011, 08:01:54 AM

I flirted with it for a month or two, but the facilities I can use are really not geared right, and I'm happy with my routine of powerlifting and olympic lifts. The more I read about CrossFit the more I have come to think that there are some really good core principles in there (high tempo, varied workouts) that is tied up in an awful lot of voodoo. Their stance on bench presses (no bench press) is frankly idiotic, since it is such a core strength-building lift for the whole of the upper torso.

Don't know about bench press - can't tell you the last time I actually lifted a weight - but yeah, I kinda agree about the voodoo thing. I'm very curious about CrossFit Endurance but nearest one is in Bethnal Green which is far too far away.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #454 on: August 11, 2011, 09:07:09 AM

I can't lift nearly as much on the flat bench.

Declines recruit lats.  That's why you (and everyone else) can lift more decline.  You can get the same results by doing flat bench and bentover rows.  I only ever use a decline bench for triceps any more and it's really just a method to break up the monotony. 

90lb military dumbell presses?  You're a beast!


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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