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Teleku
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Reply #315 on: July 13, 2010, 11:59:24 AM

I know nutrition is always personal dependent, but could Nebu or somebody make a quick comment on this?

Trying to get my lazy ass back to working out again so I can cut some of this fat off, and jumped on a diet.  Just calculated, and it currently puts me at a daily intake of:

Calories: 1229 Carbs: 160g Protein: 115g Fat: 16g

That's spread over 4 meals.  I'm about 6'1, 205 lbs.

Anything I should adjust on that?  Is it OK to add more calories if I can increase the protein amount (I know your suppose to try to balance carbs and protein...).  Should I be upping the protein a lot more?  I hear everything from .5 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.  Not sure which number is actually the most accurate.

This one does leave me pretty damn hungry by the time I go to bed, as most of that is eaten earlier in the day, with a final protein/banana shack taken around 7 PM.  Not sure if I'm undercutting myself to much.  I try to drink a shit ton of water throughout the day.

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Reply #316 on: July 13, 2010, 12:04:19 PM

1229 calories per day seems fairly light for an adult male. How much exercise are you doing each week?

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Reply #317 on: July 13, 2010, 12:17:49 PM

I know nutrition is always personal dependent, but could Nebu or somebody make a quick comment on this?

Trying to get my lazy ass back to working out again so I can cut some of this fat off, and jumped on a diet.  Just calculated, and it currently puts me at a daily intake of:

Calories: 1229 Carbs: 160g Protein: 115g Fat: 16g

That's spread over 4 meals.  I'm about 6'1, 205 lbs.

Anything I should adjust on that?  Is it OK to add more calories if I can increase the protein amount (I know your suppose to try to balance carbs and protein...).  Should I be upping the protein a lot more?  I hear everything from .5 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.  Not sure which number is actually the most accurate.

This one does leave me pretty damn hungry by the time I go to bed, as most of that is eaten earlier in the day, with a final protein/banana shack taken around 7 PM.  Not sure if I'm undercutting myself to much.  I try to drink a shit ton of water throughout the day.

Way too low on the calories and fat.  You will not be able to sustain this for very long and if you are training, especially with something very intense like P90X, you will crash and burn.

My advice to you is simply to eat; never go hungry.  Just cut out all the crap in your diet and eat real food.  Drop all the processed food you are currently eating, stop eating out for the most part, and don't drink any of your calories.  Go easy on fruits/nuts/dairy while you are trying to lose.

I'd suggest allowing one meal(not day) where you cheat and eat anything you want while you are adjusting to this lifestyle.  This will help keep you sane and on track, but as time goes by, you will find that you will need this cheat less and less and it will become something that is more dictated by socializing with others than a need to feed your desire for junk food.

Once you get pretty lean - 10% bf or so, then you are probably going to have to play around with monitoring your caloric intake (hint: use a food scale if you take this route) to get lower, but until then the method I described should serve you well.  

Don't rely solely on a scale to track your progress because it can be deceiving.  Take pictures and measurements once a week, they are fun to look back on and will give you a better idea of how you are coming along.

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Reply #318 on: July 13, 2010, 12:35:26 PM

1229 calories per day seems fairly light for an adult male. How much exercise are you doing each week?
About 3 full body workouts a week (also trying to get cardio days in between, but every day I don't go to the gym seems to be days where I have a ton of shit to do after work).  Just started on it, and see to be doing ok, but it could catch up with me I guess.  I'm not doing anything like P90X, though I want to start it in the future (idea right now is to condition myself so I'm in decent enough shape to actually start it). 

When I calculated all the nutrition together, it did seem pretty low.  Not sure what the target should be.  Then again, I'd kind of like to burn this shit off quickly.   awesome, for real

Arnold:

I kind of need to maintain a strict diet on myself daily, and allow a day where I don't watch it.  Once I break diet during a day, it sort of crush's my mental fortitude to stay on it.  Yeah, I know, key to long term health is to make it a habit to eat well all the time.  But in the mean time, I kind of have to keep myself very focused in order to maintain this.  I've already done most of what you mentioned, though again, it helps me personally when I stick with an exact order of food I eat during a day.

With the way I have the food spaced out, I actually eat just about every time I start to feel hungry again.  The only time I really feel hungry at all is around the time I'm going to bed.  Through out the day, I'm fine.

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Reply #319 on: July 13, 2010, 04:05:50 PM

I know nutrition is always personal dependent, but could Nebu or somebody make a quick comment on this?

Trying to get my lazy ass back to working out again so I can cut some of this fat off, and jumped on a diet.  Just calculated, and it currently puts me at a daily intake of:

Calories: 1229 Carbs: 160g Protein: 115g Fat: 16g

That's spread over 4 meals.  I'm about 6'1, 205 lbs.

Anything I should adjust on that?  Is it OK to add more calories if I can increase the protein amount (I know your suppose to try to balance carbs and protein...).  Should I be upping the protein a lot more?  I hear everything from .5 to 1 gram of protein per pound of body weight.  Not sure which number is actually the most accurate.

This one does leave me pretty damn hungry by the time I go to bed, as most of that is eaten earlier in the day, with a final protein/banana shack taken around 7 PM.  Not sure if I'm undercutting myself to much.  I try to drink a shit ton of water throughout the day.

Arnold is correct.  The calories and fat are far too low.  We're almost exactly the same size.  I'm 6' and 200 lbs.  My maintenance diet is near 2000 - 2200 calories, but I workout more than you.  When I cut, I try to go 500 cal below maintenance and around 25- 30g of fat.  I have done 1200 calorie diets, but for no longer than 2 weeks.  Going longer than that will drop your metabolism into starvation mode, which will make losing weight difficult.  Here are two ways I've found to maximize weight loss:

1) Cut phase: Cut 500 calories a day from normal maintenance (around 1500) spread over 5 - 6 meals (breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner).  That amounts to a decrease of 3500 cal a week or about 1 lb of fat loss.  Augment this with 500 cal per day in exercise.  This will easily allow you to shed 2 lbs a week until you reach your goal.  A rule of thumb is to eat only high quality food and keep portion sizes to that slightly smaller than the size of your fist.  For example, lunch might be a packet of tuna on a whole wheat wrap with spinach and tomato and a yogurt.  

2) Bulk Phase.  If you're a gym rat, you can hit the weights hard for 6 weeks while eating like a crazy man.  Get your caloric intake around 3000 to 4000 cal with at least 150g lean protein per day (I prefer whey and skim milk).  Try your best to keep fat < 50g.  With a solid lifting regiment, you can pack on 4-5 pounds of muscle in those 6 weeks which will help you drop fat even faster in a cut phase (see step 1) for 6 weeks.

Hope that helps.  

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Reply #320 on: July 13, 2010, 04:21:51 PM

Yeah, that does help, thanks.  I'm never sure what the right amount of fat to let in is, since I know you need it, but you also want to keep it low (any fat that isn't trans/saturated is "good fat", correct?).

Two questions though.  When you say you drop 500 calories a day, you just mean that you drop to 1500-1700 calories each day during this period, right?

Also, is there any method or tool to figure out how many calories an exercise burns?  I know you can roughly calculate it with jogging/heart beat, but what if your doing lifting?  Not sure how I can figure out if my workout routine is in the range of burning 500 calories or not.  I don't have a heart beat monitor..

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Reply #321 on: July 13, 2010, 04:31:19 PM

Yeah, that does help, thanks.  I'm never sure what the right amount of fat to let in is, since I know you need it, but you also want to keep it low (any fat that isn't trans/saturated is "good fat", correct?).

Monounsaturated and polyunsaturated are better, yes.  I try to cook with olive oil when possible or canola in a pinch.  If it's a liquid at room temp, it's primarily monounsaturated.  Saturated fats are solids near room temp (lard, animal fat, butter, etc.)

Two questions though.  When you say you drop 500 calories a day, you just mean that you drop to 1500-1700 calories each day during this period, right?

Also, is there any method or tool to figure out how many calories an exercise burns?  I know you can roughly calculate it with jogging/heart beat, but what if your doing lifting?  Not sure how I can figure out if my workout routine is in the range of burning 500 calories or not.  I don't have a heart beat monitor..

1) Correct.  If my base is 2000 cal, then I would drop to 1500 cal. 

2) Don't worry about calculating workout calories for two reasons a) you will build muscle while working out, which will up your metabolism anyway and b) it can be discouraging and counterproductive.  I would lift or do pliometrics 3 days a week and some aerobic exercise 3-4 days a week.  That should cover you fine.  Just remember to give your body some rest to recover after working out.  A major reason many people fail with these programs is that their enthusiasm will cause overtraining leading to burn-out and/or injury. 

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Reply #322 on: July 13, 2010, 05:08:25 PM

Guys, what do you do about food during the day? I have a pescy diet and basically have no idea what to do with food once I'm out of home. My time at home is limited, so anything I prepare would preferably be quick. I also cant refrigerate or microwave my food so I need to make stuff that's nice at room temp. Food where I study basically sucks, and it's hard buying food that's not laden with unnecessary shit at any of the shops nearby. What i end up doing is snacking on a ton of fruit during the day but it's tiring and not filling.
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Reply #323 on: July 13, 2010, 08:30:41 PM

These workouts are burning, according to my watch monitor, 700+ calories a session.

Is that good, slacking, average, impossible to judge?

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Reply #324 on: July 13, 2010, 09:52:21 PM

These workouts are burning, according to my watch monitor, 700+ calories a session.

Is that good, slacking, average, impossible to judge?

It's wrong; just ignore it.  Knowing how many calories you are supposedly burning through exercise is just going to give you an excuse to binge on something crappy because you "earned it".

Exercise burns a lot less than most think.
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Reply #325 on: July 14, 2010, 03:19:40 AM

I find that goals really help me progress; out of interest what are your goals?

Lately, I check my progress by changes in my Fran time or by doing the Operator Ugly.

The guys I PT with every day are so damn competitive that the only real goal I have is to outdo them, and that's no easy task. Beyond that, I don't really set a lot of goals right now. There's sort of a standing goal of becoming faster and stronger, I guess.

Before about six or seven months ago, I was just lifting weights traditionally and taking supplements. At that time, I set a lot of goals because numbers were such a part of it all. It was super important to bench ten more pounds, or weigh five more pounds or whatever. I weighed in at about 197 lbs at my peak and benched 325 lbs. Sure, my shirts were tight and I looked like a beast, but the downside to all of that was being a slow turd.

Right now I weigh 182 lbs or so and my last two mile run time was 12:17. I haven't maxed my bench in months, but it's not 325. Either way, I feel a lot healthier now and generally prefer this version of my body to trying to be The Hulk.
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Reply #326 on: July 14, 2010, 09:07:54 AM

Guys, what do you do about food during the day? I have a pescy diet and basically have no idea what to do with food once I'm out of home. My time at home is limited, so anything I prepare would preferably be quick. I also cant refrigerate or microwave my food so I need to make stuff that's nice at room temp. Food where I study basically sucks, and it's hard buying food that's not laden with unnecessary shit at any of the shops nearby. What i end up doing is snacking on a ton of fruit during the day but it's tiring and not filling.

A few tips. 

1) When you first feel pangs of hunger, drink water.  That can sometimes delay the hunger a bit.

2) For snacks: carrots, whole almonds and dried fruit.  GORP (Granola, Oats, Raisins, Peanuts) is also great snack in moderation and cheap to make if you buy the ingredients in bulk.  You can also try rice cakes if you can handle the texture.  The flavored ones have gotten better.  Other than that, go for bulk as filler.  Celery, radishes, and cucumbers can be a great snack with cherry tomatos.   

3) I'm a big fan of foil pouch tuna.  One pouch on a whole wheat tortilla with something green does the trick well.  I often just eat the tuna out of the pouch with salt and pepper.  It takes the edge off. 

4) Protein shakes can be tolerable when made with water, but you need to experiment until you find a brand of power that you can stomach.  When using water, I always stick with chocolate.  The more exotic flavors seem meant to be mixed with milk. 

5) Gum is your friend.  It helps me avoid food cravings as well. 

6) Bring a bottle of fruit flavored chewable vitamin C to work.  When you feel a sweet tooth, just chew one.  They're sweet/tart and your body can tolerate gram quantities with ease. 

Hope that helps.

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Reply #327 on: July 14, 2010, 09:11:22 AM

Right now I weigh 182 lbs or so and my last two mile run time was 12:17. I haven't maxed my bench in months, but it's not 325. Either way, I feel a lot healthier now and generally prefer this version of my body to trying to be The Hulk.

12:17 is a great two mile time.  At my weight, I have a hard time running faster than 7 min miles.  I guess that's the trade... if I slim down to 165, I can run 5:30's all day but I look like a walking scarecrow.  It sounds like you've found the sweet spot between strength and endurance.  Well done. 

As for the 325 bench, that's impressive at your weight.  I have no idea what my current max is (I never have a spotter), but know it's nowhere near that.  I'll blame my age!!!

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Reply #328 on: July 14, 2010, 09:34:32 AM

For snacks: carrots, whole almonds and dried fruit. 
I like apples and bananas, but I can keep a few to eat through the day at work. Obviously dried is more portable. For almonds, you've really got to watch portion. I LOVE almonds, and it's very easy to consume a lot of calories because they're packed with them. I get into the habit of tossing back and occasional handful, but then the can is empty before I know it. I stopped buying them for a while, but I keep going back because they're so tasty and good.

Right now I'm into a variety made by Emerald, they bake in cocoa powder. Less sodium and they have a strong cocoa flavor without a chocolate coating, nutritionally about the same as regular almonds. I still prefer the non-salted foil bag kind, but this is a nice change (and the girls at the office go nuts for them (sorry)).
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Reply #329 on: July 14, 2010, 09:36:28 AM

Good points Sky.  I usually put 1/4 cup of each in a bag.  If I don't limit myself, I can eat a pound of almonds effortlessly.  Dried fruit is similar, particularly cranberries, apples, and bananas. 

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Reply #330 on: July 14, 2010, 11:10:13 AM

12:17 is a great two mile time.  At my weight, I have a hard time running faster than 7 min miles.  I guess that's the trade... if I slim down to 165, I can run 5:30's all day but I look like a walking scarecrow.  It sounds like you've found the sweet spot between strength and endurance.  Well done. 

As for the 325 bench, that's impressive at your weight.  I have no idea what my current max is (I never have a spotter), but know it's nowhere near that.  I'll blame my age!!!

I'm only 5'11" or so on a good day, so at 180-185 lbs I think I'm just slightly above scarecrow status. And I'm not anywhere near benching 325 right now - I just wanted to show the range of results you can get based on different routines and diets.
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Reply #331 on: July 14, 2010, 11:10:25 AM

Not for out and about, but at home I keep seedless grapes in the freezer. They're my favorite replacement for chips or popcorn as mindless grazing food while I read. The grapes are good for you and you can't eat them very fast when they're frozen. I've been wanting to try freezing bananas, too, but I eat them too quickly :)
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Reply #332 on: July 14, 2010, 12:22:51 PM

For me, apples for breakfast (they are good filler and sooooo yummy) along with a protein shake.  I like my shakes with fat free milk, because it tastes loads better, plus you get even more protein AND the other inherent befits of milk.  More calories, though.  I'm a late evening snacker (with a severe pretzel addiction), but when I'm being good I've found that cherries are great.  So are grapes.  Pistachios on occasion, too, but you don't want to go overboard on those.

Somebody said they try to minimize the fruit, but I don't quite get that logic...as far as I'm concerned, it's the very definition of high quality food that tastes good, fills you up, has real nutritional value and is generally very low in calories.  It's hard imagine that it would even be possible to eat too much fruit, unless you're a diabetic or something.


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Reply #333 on: July 14, 2010, 12:38:03 PM

Not for out and about, but at home I keep seedless grapes in the freezer. They're my favorite replacement for chips or popcorn as mindless grazing food while I read. The grapes are good for you and you can't eat them very fast when they're frozen. I've been wanting to try freezing bananas, too, but I eat them too quickly :)

How long do the grapes last in the freezer?  It's something I've never thought to try, but I'd thought they'd get freezer burned pretty fast.  I'm wrong a lot though.
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Reply #334 on: July 14, 2010, 12:43:18 PM

Bananas don't freeze well.  The only thing bananas are good for after they come out of a freezer are smoothies and banana bread.

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Reply #335 on: July 14, 2010, 03:43:18 PM

I'll blame my age!!!

Age means nothing!   Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


12:17 is a great two mile time.  At my weight, I have a hard time running faster than 7 min miles.  I guess that's the trade... if I slim down to 165, I can run 5:30's all day but I look like a walking scarecrow.  It sounds like you've found the sweet spot between strength and endurance.  Well done. 

As for the 325 bench, that's impressive at your weight.  I have no idea what my current max is (I never have a spotter), but know it's nowhere near that.  I'll blame my age!!!

I'm only 5'11" or so on a good day, so at 180-185 lbs I think I'm just slightly above scarecrow status. And I'm not anywhere near benching 325 right now - I just wanted to show the range of results you can get based on different routines and diets.

That would be an impressive bench, although I'm not really keen on bench as a measure of raw strength. I know plenty of guys who can bench well over 100kg, but can't squat or deadlift anything. For pure strength purposes I think the combined bench+squat+deadlift is a better measure. One of my ideas at the moment while I search for a new direction with the gym is to train towards a 400kg combined lift, and see how far I can push that, but generally I find that max power comes at the expense of speed and endurance, so for that sake I'd rather go more into crossfit. Decisions are tough...

For the record I'm 6'1" and weigh around 202 lbs.

Does anyone have any opinion on yoghurt as a post-training snack? I'm usually having a large (450g) pot after most sessions and that +juice/squash usually does me well enough for recovery.

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Reply #336 on: July 14, 2010, 06:07:39 PM

Does anyone have any opinion on yoghurt as a post-training snack? I'm usually having a large (450g) pot after most sessions and that +juice/squash usually does me well enough for recovery.

Many people will tell you to eat something high in protein post workout.  This is biochemically wrong.  The best thing to eat post workout is something high in glucose as you deplete these stores during the workout and the glucose will keep you from cannibalizing muscle for energy.  Energy bars are a good choice as are some energy drinks.  If you prefer natural, raisins, honey, dates, etc. work.  The key is to not overdo it. 

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Reply #337 on: July 14, 2010, 06:29:53 PM

I love dried fruit...wish the good stuff wasn't so pricey. I think I need to learn how to snack "properly," as that sort of stuff will just turn into a meal if I have enough available.

Also...the Pylo and arms/back routines tore me up so bad I couldn't do the 90 (!!) minute Yoga routine.  undecided

I'm hoping the soreness, especially in the legs, dies down tomorrow (2 days after the actual routine). Also...it's really not helpful that I'm not flexible at the wait; I've never, in my life, been able to touch my toes or the ground with locked knees. The best I can do is bend 90 degrees at the waist, which is not great.

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Reply #338 on: July 14, 2010, 10:53:10 PM

Does anyone have any opinion on yoghurt as a post-training snack? I'm usually having a large (450g) pot after most sessions and that +juice/squash usually does me well enough for recovery.

Many people will tell you to eat something high in protein post workout.  This is biochemically wrong.  The best thing to eat post workout is something high in glucose as you deplete these stores during the workout and the glucose will keep you from cannibalizing muscle for energy.  Energy bars are a good choice as are some energy drinks.  If you prefer natural, raisins, honey, dates, etc. work.  The key is to not overdo it. 

Are you sure that's correct?  Your body starts breaking down muscle for glucogenesis just because your muscle glycogen stores aren't 100% full?

Bodybuilders typically consume something like a 50/50 mixture of protein and glucose.  IIRC there were studies showing superior protein absorption when consumed in combination with glucose as opposed to protein alone.
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Reply #339 on: July 15, 2010, 05:00:06 AM

I thought it was something along the lines of glucose within 10-15 minutes of a workout and protein ~2 hrs after a workout for maximum effect.

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Reply #340 on: July 15, 2010, 06:14:26 AM

From what I understand, your body benefits most from protein towards the end of the 30 minute window after you stop working out.

Furthermore, there's all the different sorts of protein supplements. Immediately after a workout, you should take in something that digests with a quickness, i.e. whey.

The stuff that digests more slowly (Muscle Milk is good example) is better to take before you rest/sleep so that it's absorbed over a longer period of time.

I'm garbage at nutrition and diet, so Nebu may want to comment here. Either way, this is what I've gone by and it's worked out alright.
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Reply #341 on: July 15, 2010, 06:56:53 AM

Thanks for all the tips Nebu.

Are protein supplements only suggested if you want to build bulk? I'm trying to lose weight and tone, I think I'd look fine as long as I got leaner, and my main goals are to get fitter, slimmer, meaner and jump higher.
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Reply #342 on: July 15, 2010, 07:01:04 AM

Thanks for all the tips Nebu.

Are protein supplements only suggested if you want to build bulk? I'm trying to lose weight and tone, I think I'd look fine as long as I got leaner, and my main goals are to get fitter, slimmer, meaner and jump higher.

I'm one of those folks that thinks people overdo it with the supplements.  Eating responsibly and working out 4-5 days a week has worked out very well for me.  I lost 45 pounds 3 years ago and I've kept it off (which has been the hardest part).

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Reply #343 on: July 15, 2010, 07:12:29 AM

Are you sure that's correct?  Your body starts breaking down muscle for glucogenesis just because your muscle glycogen stores aren't 100% full?

I'm sure that's correct for me.  I drink protein shakes throughout the day (primarily because I'm a vegetarian) to maintain a consistent amount of available protein and often fast for an hour or so prior to my workout.  For most people glycogen stores will last for 24 hr at normal operating metabolism.  When I lift, I can often burn through a significant portion of my stores so I'm always sure to eat a high glucose (not just carb, but glucose to immediately raise blood sugar) snack after working out.  I'll then have a whey shake about 30-60 mins later.  My body fat is typically in the 6-8% range, so I don't have a lot of excess available for catabolism.  If my glucose levels run low, my body will immediately begin to scavenge muscle, particularly that which was already partially broken down during my lifting.  

As for the second part, your body will burn glucose first, then begin to eat into your glycogen stores.  Since the brain, RBC, and a few other cell types only burn glucose and beta keto acids for fuel, you'll begin to burn any remaining fat and muscle for fuel once the glucose is gone.  This is one reason why I don't particularly care for ketogenic diets.  Using fat for energy is fine to speed weight loss, but will result in a decrease in blood pH which can really affect many systems.  

Are protein supplements only suggested if you want to build bulk? I'm trying to lose weight and tone, I think I'd look fine as long as I got leaner, and my main goals are to get fitter, slimmer, meaner and jump higher.

Protein shakes are a lean form of protein to supplement the diet when you can't get enough through normal intake.  If you want to jump higher, you're going to be building quad and gastroc muscle.  Having the extra protein available for building while on a low calorie diet will limit the amount of muscle that gets broken down during normal weight loss.  Most of us will breakdown 20-30% muscle mass while in the process of also losing fat.  Keeping your protein levels high will minimize the muscle loss while getting rid of unwanted fat.  

Hope that helps.


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Reply #344 on: July 15, 2010, 07:20:51 AM

I stopped taking protein shakes because they were doing horrible things to my gut, and frankly I haven't noticed a significant impact on my training capacity. I have increased the amount of fish, eggs and milk that I eat to compensate though. The only thing I do feel is that without the added creatine I cannot train for quite as long, so I may go back to that. But frankly I don't have the time to train for more than 2 hours 3-4 nights a week, and if I can do that without creatine I may as well just live without it.

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Reply #345 on: July 15, 2010, 04:27:44 PM

So I did some math and figured out that I could (and probably should) lose half of my bodymass (sadly I am only slightly exaggerating). I knew I had "a few pounds to much" on me, but when my new balance (is that really the American term for the thing that measures your weight) just gave me an "error" message when calculation my body fat, I figured that it would be a really good idea to start with limiting my calorie intake to a more healthy level.

I am a little bit shy of 6 feet tall and plan to eat no more than 2000 calories a day. If I am not totally wrong this should bring me down to a more healthy weight level in a few months(/years). I can't really work with your fucked up measurement system, but I think I should lose at least 30kg and could probably lose up to 65kg without looking starved.

Light, low impact cardio and workout in the gym is a given, in fact I will start as soon as they will take my money.

Why do I post this ? No idea, maybe just because I want to have something to look back to in a few months to remind me why I started this.  awesome, for real


"I've been done enough around here..."- Signe
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Reply #346 on: July 15, 2010, 05:34:45 PM

Gotta start somewhere Helm.   It really is worth it  - just take a picture and some measurements.  In a few months, after you've dropped a few kg and cm, take a look in the mirror and then at the pic - chances are, you'll be shocked.

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Reply #347 on: July 15, 2010, 06:07:33 PM

Got a panorama lens ?  ACK!


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Reply #348 on: July 15, 2010, 06:31:23 PM

The first day I hit the elliptical, I had to stop after 10 minutes.  In hindsight, I'd say the first 2 months were the worst.  Don't give up.

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Reply #349 on: July 15, 2010, 06:45:22 PM

My swim coach called the first 2 weeks after some time off "The Wall."  You'll hit it hard and want to stop, but you push through and you'll go over and forget about it.  You can do it, Helm.

The past cannot be changed. The future is yet within your power.
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