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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477285 times)
stray
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Reply #140 on: February 16, 2009, 02:10:37 PM

I might need to get one of these pull up things. I live by a playground, and don't feel like walking over and doing them there everytime. Doubtful I'll bother with P90X though. Just need to stimulate my body a bit with basic compound exercises. I'm doubling my caloric intake as well (along with protein). I'm 175 at the moment, still around 11% bodyfat. I'll post results in a month! Hopefully I'll keep the fat nearly as low, but that's doubtful.

[edit] wait, nevermind.. false alarm.
« Last Edit: February 17, 2009, 04:53:37 AM by Stray »
stray
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Reply #141 on: February 17, 2009, 02:19:55 AM

@Nebu

Hey man, if presses give me more stress in my triceps than my chest, what should I be adjusting...? I just do barbell presses. My form seems good. But I've always had this problem, where I feel like I'm not working my pectorals enough, and get worn out in my arms. Be it pushups, presses, etc..
Nebu
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Reply #142 on: February 17, 2009, 06:54:07 AM

@Nebu

Hey man, if presses give me more stress in my triceps than my chest, what should I be adjusting...? I just do barbell presses. My form seems good. But I've always had this problem, where I feel like I'm not working my pectorals enough, and get worn out in my arms. Be it pushups, presses, etc..

The width of your grip. 

Wide grip = pecs.  Narrow grip = triceps. 

Make your grip as wide as you can comfortably go to focus pectoral muscles.  Incline to add shoulder and tops of pecs, decline to add back and bottoms of pecs.  Thats' the best I can offer.  Triceps are always secondary in pushups or presses, the grip width changes amount of emphasis. 

Hope that helps.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
stray
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Reply #143 on: February 17, 2009, 11:37:29 AM

It does, thanks man
Margalis
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Reply #144 on: February 18, 2009, 01:51:02 AM

You might also consider doing butterflies.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #145 on: February 18, 2009, 05:41:02 AM

I was going to say the same thing.  If you have a machine where you can open up the fly arms an do what amounts to an "open fly" (heh), you'll notice that it'll tear the shit out of your pecs.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
stray
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Reply #146 on: February 18, 2009, 05:45:44 AM

Damn, no, I wish I had that. I just have a plain old bench, a bar, and some dumbbells. [edit] and the only dumbbells I have are a bit heavy for flys right now.  :\

I should add that my chest was a lot more sore after waking up yesterday.
« Last Edit: February 18, 2009, 05:52:20 AM by Stray »
Nebu
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Reply #147 on: February 18, 2009, 06:30:50 AM

I'd recommend a pair of the handles below.  You can move them around to isolate triceps or chest, you can put your feet on the bed for upper pecs, or elevate the handles for lower pecs.  Between a pair of these, a pullup bar, and a place to do dips... you're covered.  Mine cost like $10 at WalMart.


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
DraconianOne
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Reply #148 on: February 19, 2009, 06:33:32 AM

I've been avoiding this thread because I thought P90X was about some gadget that I didn't want to know about so colour me surprised at finding a workout thread. Turns out I can even get it in the UK.  As I've managed to let myself go over the last 4/5 months owing work/home life balance becoming, um, unbalanced, and I've got some serious events planned that I need to get back in shape for. So I'm looking at something I can do at home and that will motivate me.  Couple of quick Qs though:

1. Does it give alternatives to pull-ups?

2.
Day 2: Plyometrics, which is codespeak for Squats.
Is it real plyometrics or what?

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Reply #149 on: March 04, 2009, 08:15:49 PM

Its been weeks! Updates please.

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Cyrrex
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Reply #150 on: March 05, 2009, 06:30:22 AM

Ya, do tell.  I'm on my own kind of a plan (the putting on weight/muscle type, not for losing...I did the weight loss thing last year), so I'm hugely curious in this topic in general.  I'd also be curious if anyone out there is trying to do the same thing I am doing...would be interesting to compare notes.  Apparently, I am OCD enough that I tend to be pretty good at this sort of thing.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nebu
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Reply #151 on: March 05, 2009, 07:14:51 AM

Ya, do tell.  I'm on my own kind of a plan (the putting on weight/muscle type, not for losing...I did the weight loss thing last year), so I'm hugely curious in this topic in general.  I'd also be curious if anyone out there is trying to do the same thing I am doing...would be interesting to compare notes.  Apparently, I am OCD enough that I tend to be pretty good at this sort of thing.

THIS is the plan I've been doing.  It's based on German volume training and I have to confess that with proper diet, my growth has been the best I've seen in years.  In a month I've added 25lbs to my decline bench and had significant gains in shoulder and tricep strength. 

I'm wanting to hear more about this P90x.  You got me motivated to get more hardcore... I want to hear your story!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #152 on: March 05, 2009, 12:40:50 PM

I gained 4 pounds of fat  awesome, for real

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SnakeCharmer
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Reply #153 on: March 06, 2009, 09:51:16 AM

Update?

Going well.  Really well.  I haven't weighed myself in a while, but I'm probably down to high 180's at this point.  Probably the most telling is that I'm able to fit into a pants I haven't been able to wear in years and my snoring has been all but eliminated - which will hopefully continue and I won't have to use my CPAP machine anymore for my sleep apnea.

A side effect is that the weight loss and increased flexibility has temporarily screwed up my golf game.  As I put on weight and lost flexibility over the past several years, I (unintentionally) started altering small parts of my swing to make up for the changes.  So, trying to re-groove my old swing or rebuild a new one which is going to take some time.  Scoring in the 80's is killing me, when I'm used to playing a scratch handicap.

But it's been alot of fun.  Started playing tennis again, my energy level is through the roof.  Spending alot less time on my ass.

And the response I get from people I haven't seen in a couple months/several weeks is always a trip.  So far, about 8 or so of my friends/colleagues have bought the system and are having a great deal of fun with it.

Highly recommend it.
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Reply #154 on: March 06, 2009, 10:32:28 AM

I'm looking forward to starting my workout program in a couple months. I'll start with some plumbing and the move onto some masonry and tree removal, then onto some excavation  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
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Reply #155 on: March 06, 2009, 10:37:24 AM

I'm still chugging along. I've added 5kg to my bench and military press weights and broken the 1.5x bodyweight barrier on deadlifts. Just about hitting bodyweight now on squats. 3x8 pullups are pretty much a certainty unless I do them dead last after a long workout, and then I usually still hit 8/8/7.

I need to find a decent core exercise to rotate in, so I've been practicing Turkish Get-Ups at home using heavy books for weight.

My grip exercises have helped a lot, and I can pretty confidently take on V3 bouldering routes again. I've also gotten to the point that I can do two full laps on a campusing ladder without rest. DRILLING AND MANLINESS
stray
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Reply #156 on: March 06, 2009, 12:15:30 PM

I'm looking forward to starting my workout program in a couple months. I'll start with some plumbing and the move onto some masonry and tree removal, then onto some excavation  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

Probably not a bad idea! Ever notice it's always like these unassuming lumberjack dudes that destroy people in "strong man" competitions?  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
Rasix
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Reply #157 on: March 06, 2009, 12:39:47 PM

I'm looking forward to starting my workout program in a couple months. I'll start with some plumbing and the move onto some masonry and tree removal, then onto some excavation  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

OMG, did you get a house?  why so serious?

I got a pullup bar thanks to this thread. Pullups are fun.  However, I simply cannot do pull ups with any hand separation with my palms facing out.  Is there any sort of low impact exercise I can do to start building up that muscle group?  Having a messed up/surgically repaired back may hamper this somewhat.   Only other semi-negative with this bar is that my elbow tendons/joints really can't put up with much of the other exercises I can do with it (pullups don't stress it at all).

My cardio has gone to shit since I stopped playing tennis.  I suppose I could start jogging.  Jogging is going to really suck in Arizona in less than a month.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 01:27:34 PM by Rasix »

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Hindenburg
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Reply #158 on: March 06, 2009, 01:20:58 PM

You could always use a chair to help.

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Nebu
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Reply #159 on: March 06, 2009, 02:28:47 PM

Is there any sort of low impact exercise I can do to start building up that muscle group? 

Place a chair on the floor but not directly under you.  Set the chair such that it only supports your heels and use a wide grip on the bar so your body is at about a 45 degree angle.  This will give you a lower impact version of a lat builder.  Doinf this, you will slowly gain strength in your back until you no longer need the chair for assist. 

Hope that helps.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #160 on: March 06, 2009, 02:51:24 PM

Just got back from the gym; I got there late today, and it was pretty empty even for a Friday, so I decided to trade-in bent-over rows for Turkish Get-Ups with real weight. I went straight for 12kg. I figured that since I'd been feeling pretty strong - at least, for a guy my size - I could just go for it.

The first one wasn't so bad. I had the form down pretty well thanks to practicing with the book. By the third, everything I ever thought I knew about my own strength was a lie. It was like my entire torso and arm was on fire.

I managed to finish 3x4 of the fuckers at 12kg before slinking off to hurt in the sauna.

Totally adding these fuckers to my normal rotation.
Cyrrex
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Reply #161 on: March 07, 2009, 07:45:49 AM

Here's my story, in brief:

About a year ago my doctor told me my cholesterol was bad.  He also mentioned that I should "watch my weight"...I was about 187 pounds (5 foot 8), but I've always carried it fairly well, so most people wouldn't have said I was overweight.  But I was.  Went on a pretty intense diet - more of a lifestyle change, really - and lost about 45 pounds.  I did that in about 4 or 5 months, primarily through a good diet and a whole lot of kickboxing.  I bought a heavy bag and some gloves, and would just go beat the shit out of it for 20 - 30 minutes every day.  For anyone out there looking for a good, fun program to help lose extra weight an whip yourself into shape, I cannot stress enough how fantastic the kickboxing is.

Anyway, I maintained my new low weight (about 140-ish) for a long time.  I started to realize that, while I was in pretty good shape, I really was too small.  All the muscle mass I used to have as a younger fellow (I'm 35 now) was nowhere to be found.  I was too lean.  So about 60 days ago, I started in earnest to put on some serious weight/muscle.  I began doing a lot of research on weight gaining diets and programs.  I got all the protein shakes.  I increased my caloric intake to much higher levels.  I went out and bought a relatively cheap single-station home gym...I knew that this wasn't the ideal solution, but I felt like I needed to build a foundation in the privacy of my own home before I seriously considered free weights and/or a public gym.  I have so far not regretted that decision one bit.  You can get a hell of a lot out of a machine, particularly if you are a beginner.

I'm pretty dedicated, to the point of being a bit OCD about this stuff.  Not only have I stuck to my routine to the fucking letter, but I'm probably on the border of overdoing it a little - the biggest flaw in my schedule is that I cannot seem to bring myself to add in the proper rest that my body probably needs between workouts.  OTOH, I am a weirdly fast healer, so I'm not sure I need the rest that other people might.

So, the net results to this point.  58 days into my program, and I have put on right around 30 pounds (I'm back to 172).  I measure my body fat, and at the same time, by lean body mass numbers, every day.  According to the math, I've put on about 16 pounds of LBM (muscle, bone, hair, etc.) and 14 pounds of fat.  In reality, I think it is probably even more muscle than that, because I understand that body fat scales often have a hard time with extra muscle, and call it out as fat.  I can also see in the mirror that it's mostly muscle being put on, though there is certainly a ring of extra fat being added around my waist awesome, for real  It would bother me more, but all the credible information I've read said that the most efficient method is to just gain muscle and fat like a motherfucker, and then work on cutting the fat later (bulk then cut).  That's what they say most bodybuilders do, so if it's good enough for them, it must be good enough for me.  In two days, I will move to my fat cutting phase.  I am extremely curious to see what I'm going to look like a few weeks into it.  I'm not sure how long I'll make this phase (2 or 3 weeks at least, I imagine), because I'm not sure how it's going to progress.

Also, at nearly two months into my program, I am a hair away from outgrowing my cheap little single-station gym, which I never would have imagined possible.  For pretty much every compound exercise (rows, lat pulldowns, bench, dead-lifts), I have maxed out the machine weight.  It's still fine for most isolation stuff, because it's not like I'll be doing 170 pound preacher curls anytime soon.  Regardless of how much actual muscle I've put on, I am waaay stronger than I was when I begun.  I am now looking seriously into buying a good Power Rack and some free weights, otherwise it will be very difficult to continue progressing with the critical compound exercises.

I've also learned a whole lot about how the body works, which has been fun.  I'm kind of looking forward to my cutting phase, because frankly, I am getting really sick and tired of eating all the god damned time and being full before I even sit down for dinner.

Shit, that wasn't too brief. swamp poop

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
JWIV
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Reply #162 on: March 07, 2009, 08:09:22 AM

Honestly, I'm impressed.  The biggest problem with a lot of these intense programs is people do great with them for a month and then life happens and they drop the exercise portion, keep eating an increased number of calories, and gain 10 lbs.    Bravo to everyone keeping up with it. 

stray
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Reply #163 on: March 07, 2009, 08:27:00 AM

I'm impressed too, and nah, that wasn't too long Cyrrex. :)


Keeping weight down isn't too bad.. You can't maintain an extremely low fat percentage (like 6 pack range) without being a bit obsessive about it, but you can certainly prevent a gut, even without much exercise (err.. conscious/intentional exercise, I mean). Just gotta stop being so sedentary and eating complete shit. People don't drink enough water these days either.
Nebu
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Reply #164 on: March 07, 2009, 02:42:58 PM

Nice work Cyrrex!

You're correct on the gain/cut mechanism.  Muscle increases BMR so it's much easier to drop weight fast after gaining.  The only problem is that during a cut phase you'll also lose about 20% of your muscle mass. 

I hope that you stick with it.  Maybe we can compare notes come May.  I'm not going to be done with this cycle until then.  I better get some handicap for my age!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Azaroth
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Reply #165 on: March 07, 2009, 03:56:16 PM

into my program, and I have put on right around 30 pounds (I'm back to 172).  I measure my body fat, and at the same time, by lean body mass numbers, every day.  According to the math, I've put on about 16 pounds of LBM (muscle, bone, hair, etc.) and 14 pounds of fat.  In reality, I think it is probably even more muscle than that

Hate to burst bubbles, but that's not possible. Unless you're on steroids.

Even then it'd be a good result.

At best, a natural trainee can expect about 2 pounds of lean mass per month. That's with everything being perfect, and great genetics. Generally you can expect less than that.

I'd be interested to know if you're measuring LBM with calipers or a handheld monitor, on a scale, in a dunk tank, or what. It sounds like you're using an electric bathroom scale, and all I can do is warn you that those things are horribly inaccurate to the point of being completely worthless for measuring bodyfat percentages.

If I'm only trying to help (and I am), I suggest you get some calipers and scale your calories back very quickly.


Edit: I feel like I should throw something positive in here, because I'm really not trying to be a dick - even though what I've said will likely be rejected off the bat and taken negatively.

That you're gaining strength and feeling good about it is awesome. Strength usually comes very quickly when you start out with weights, and it can be quite exciting. I remember being in love with the squat rack, watching my numbers go up substantially every week (I fucking hate squatting now).

Just really watch out with adding that much fat when you bulk. It's a bad thing that you'll regret later. Cutting is catabolic and it's very hard to hold onto all of your muscle and strength when you cut, so the less you have to do unnecessarily the better. At the moment, you've put on 30 pounds in 60 days and, again, unless you're on steroids then most of that is fat/water. The human body has a finite capacity for protein synthesis, and you can't change that without drugs.

The problem here is that you'll probably end up with less lean mass than when you started after you take that all off of yourself - especially if you end up with 60 pounds at four months, 90 pounds at six months, and so on. But at that point, the mirror will tell you very clearly to stop.

Out of curiosity, I'd be interested in seeing your diet (hopefully you keep a log) and your workout schedule.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2009, 04:07:45 PM by Azaroth »

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Nebu
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Reply #166 on: March 07, 2009, 04:24:26 PM

Just really watch out with adding that much fat when you bulk. It's a bad thing that you'll regret later.

That was kind of what I was getting at above.  Even if you cut on a VERY good diet, you're still likely to lose 20% of your muscle gains at a minimum. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #167 on: March 08, 2009, 08:09:00 AM

stuff

I understand and am aware of everything you stated.  I am using a scale to record measurements for now, and while I understand the inaccuracies involved, it works fine for benchmarks and indexes.  I'm not claiming that I've put on 16 pounds of pure muscle...as you say, some of it is certainly water weight and I'll see it falling away quickly.

As for the assertion that you cannot put on more than a couple pounds of muscle mass per month, without juicing (I wouldn't dream of using drugs), all I can say is that that is categorically untrue.  I don't want to get in a heated debate about it.  That may be an accurate generalization, but it sure as hell isn't true for anyone who is a relative beginner, and there are plenty of other variables involved.  Granted, it is very certainly starting to level out, and there is no way I could continue that pace.  But it is rather irresponsible to make such sweeping statements, because it's that kind of nonsense that frightens people away from even trying.

Edit:  Sorry if that comes off douchey...not trying to pick a fight.  It might help to explain that I was coming from a position where I was a bit too lean to begin with, am naturally very athletic, a natural mesomorph, am an oddly fast healer (really, it's almost weird), and I workout with high intensity.  Once I get through my cutting phase and begin my next bulking phase, I expect my experience to be a bit more in line with what you are suggesting.  But it will still be more than 2 pounds a month  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 08:24:09 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Azaroth
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Reply #168 on: March 08, 2009, 12:09:13 PM

Alright. I'm just going to suggest the calipers again so you can accurately keep track of what's going on and have that knowledge for yourself.

Again, electronic scales do not work - so at the moment, you're guessing.

That's all I'll say on the subject.

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Nebu
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Reply #169 on: March 08, 2009, 01:31:52 PM

Again, electronic scales do not work - so at the moment, you're guessing.

He's right here.  Using capacitance on the scale only works for a small number of people under some very idealized conditions.  Get yourself a pair of calipers or you can use the naval measurement system for BMI (LINK HERE).  Of course, calculators that include more measurements tend to be MUCH more accurate.  If you are VERY serious, you can do an immersion test (measure of buoyancy due to fat). 

On a separate note, I think I've found the perfect home gym for under $300.



Chins, dips, abs, and pushup bars.  All you need is one of (THESE) for weighted pullups and dips and you have everything!

When I finish my bulk phase, I'm going to do nothing but naturals for the summer with a lot of road mileage.  Then I'll go back to volume training in the fall. 
« Last Edit: March 08, 2009, 01:41:17 PM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
stray
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Reply #170 on: March 08, 2009, 01:53:16 PM

You've provided a link for everything except the product link there ;)

That thing looks pretty tall though.. Hmm.
Nebu
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Reply #171 on: March 08, 2009, 02:39:42 PM

You've provided a link for everything except the product link there ;)

That thing looks pretty tall though.. Hmm.

I have vaulted ceilings, so no worries.  I didn't leave a link because you can find these for like $250 if you search for dip/chin on my st retailer websites.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #172 on: March 08, 2009, 02:43:49 PM

I haven't been using the electronic scale because I thought it was giving me a good measure of what my true body fat calculation was - I've always known that it was overestimating the figure.  I HAVE been using it for benchmarking only...it gives me an idea of what kind of mass I am putting on (which is confirmed by looking in the mirror), and it has been plenty adequate for that purpose.

That said, I've been meaning to buy some calipers anyway, so I picked some up at GNC today.  So far, it is confirming what I already knew....the scale is adding about 4% extra.  I'll need more trial and error measuring with these things, because I've never used them before.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
MrHat
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Reply #173 on: March 10, 2009, 07:11:20 AM



Chins, dips, abs, and pushup bars.  All you need is one of (THESE) for weighted pullups and dips and you have everything!

When I finish my bulk phase, I'm going to do nothing but naturals for the summer with a lot of road mileage.  Then I'll go back to volume training in the fall. 

Those things are awesome.  A friend of mine who works from home has one in his home office.  He basically just does dips and pullups ALL DAY.  Just like, whenever he needs a break, he hops on.  I want one badly.
Sky
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Reply #174 on: March 10, 2009, 12:20:57 PM

That does look cool, wouldn't fit in my pad, though. Maybe in the garage, but it's getting tight for space in there already.

Someone mentioned a bag...that's an interesting idea. My singer always loved working bags, had four different kinds (even one odd one he had on the ceiling for David Lee Roth kicks), and I worked them a lot. And I've got a nice unfinished basement....drums, bench and a bag sounds perfect!
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