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schild
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Reply #105 on: January 19, 2009, 07:14:09 AM

On that note, I'm tempted to grab P90X and suffer with you. I do not have access to real exercise equipment and can't join a gym, so this should be quite the trip.
Hoax
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Reply #106 on: January 19, 2009, 11:01:01 AM

On that note, I'm tempted to grab P90X and suffer with you. I do not have access to real exercise equipment and can't join a gym, so this should be quite the trip.

I was thinking in a similar vein, but I think we could both buy the bands and be fine?  I've got the Iron Gym (good stuff) and a chair already..

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #107 on: January 19, 2009, 12:33:50 PM

Sort of along the same lines as Itto, starting Friday night, my workout went to shit.  Hello Mr. FeverSinusesChestCongestionCoughHeadacheAndOtherFluLikeSymptoms, how are you?  Felt like complete ass until this morning actually.  Debated not even coming to work, but feeling better as the day goes on.  I feel like I'm on reset, so may as well start the process anew.

And yeah, Hoax, the bands and pull up bar is all you really need. 
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #108 on: January 20, 2009, 07:09:17 AM

Rebooted Day 1 was much better than the original. Managed to last a lot longer, heart stayed at 160bpm, did more of everything. Only complete failure was, again, caused by Diamond Push Ups.

Not feeling any lactic acid, only bona fide muscular fatigue.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Nebu
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Reply #109 on: January 20, 2009, 07:26:22 AM

Rebooted Day 1 was much better than the original. Managed to last a lot longer, heart stayed at 160bpm, did more of everything. Only complete failure was, again, caused by Diamond Push Ups.

Not feeling any lactic acid, only bona fide muscular fatigue.

I think starting day 1 again was a brilliant idea.  The number one enemy to most people getting back into a regular workout routine is overtraining.  It's great to be enthusiastic about the workout, but it's also important to have realistic expectations.  Well played, sir.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hoax
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Reply #110 on: January 20, 2009, 02:50:32 PM

And yeah, Hoax, the bands and pull up bar is all you really need. 

Anyone have thoughts on where to order online?

I think I'll acquire the videos this week.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
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Reply #111 on: January 20, 2009, 03:19:03 PM

amazon.com is probably your best bet.  Or you can overpay at www.beachbody.com.  Not sure where you are, but if there's an Academy Sports near you, or probably even a Wal Mart, you could probably pick them up there on the cheap.  I'd still recommend barbells, though.  The resistance with barbells is more constant; with the bands, the resistance eases up somewhat as you get closer to where ever they are anchored.  That said, if your a n00b to strength training, it might not be a bad idea to start with them to get used to the movements.  Someone else can either verify (or vilify) my thinking on that.  Amazon.com also has the pull up bar, as does Academy Sports.

Depending on your current strength, there's a fairly cheap set of adjustable ones at Academy Sports.  I bought these, along with some extra weights.  Looking back, I should have bought something better, considering the weights move around and cause the 'nuts' to slowly loosen, which causes the weights to slide around a bit.  Which is more than a bit disconcerting when you have them directly over your head.  My 'buy stuff frivolously' account is drained for the month, but am going to pick up something better next month.

And I cannot stress how integral the pull up bar is, even if you cant do one by yourself (use a chair for assistance).  I'd definately pick one of those.

You can get the vids only on amazon for about 65 bucks, and I can send you the documentation.  That said, all of it can be found at certain places for cheap. 

schild
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Reply #112 on: January 21, 2009, 06:01:33 AM

So I acquired all the P90X stuff.

This shit. Frightening.
SnakeCharmer
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Reply #113 on: January 21, 2009, 06:44:47 AM

Don't be a pussy!!  BRING IT, BITCH!!!

Actually, it's not that bad.  Don't overdo the weights; do what you can do and don't let ego get in the way.  Proper form > all.
Nebu
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Reply #114 on: January 21, 2009, 07:58:06 AM

So I acquired all the P90X stuff.

This shit. Frightening.

Now... I'm intrigued. 

My current workout:

M-Sat 30 mins on stationary bike in the morning, run 2-5 miles in the evening.

M: Chest and abs
T: Back and legs
W: Cardio only
Th: Shoulders and abs
F: Biceps, triceps, and legs

For each body part I do 3 exercises, 3 sets each to failure in a pyramid fashion.  4th exercise for each part is a compound exercise done in 3 supersets.  I use free weights primarily and machines for back and some legs.

Q: How does this program compare to my normal routine?  If it's more intense, I'm definately in. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #115 on: January 21, 2009, 08:13:37 AM

If it's more intense, I'm definately in. 

You're in.

Actually, it's not that bad.

Yes. Yes it is. Plyo is satan made video. Even on the second run.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2009, 08:17:24 AM by Itto »

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
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Reply #116 on: January 21, 2009, 09:15:02 AM

Nebu - Depends on how hard you push your own workout, I suppose.  There's very little rest involved.  For instance, on Chest/Back (disk 1), you're constantly alternating front to back.  Then switch it around and do the same routine backwards.  You_just_don't_stop.  It's cardio/circuit training, basically.  If you're working the weight you should, you'll be spent after the first go around, much less the second.  You get a 1 minute water break about 35 minutes into it, then you're right back into the fray.

Itto - I loved the plyo.  Favorite part thus far.  Don't get me wrong, it was painful (in a good way) and whatnot, but my enjoyment of it overcame it.  Felt like a kid again.
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #117 on: January 21, 2009, 11:57:19 AM

I loved the plyo.  Favorite part thus far.  Don't get me wrong, it was painful (in a good way) and whatnot, but my enjoyment of it overcame it.  Felt like a kid again.

I'll consider plyo overcomed when I can manage the fourth set of rockstar jumps at the same speed and same height that they do it. Until then, I'm just trying to catch up. Don't consider getting to the end, performing every exercise to some extent, overcoming it.

Different strokes for different folks, though. When that prick says "EX-like" and crosses his arms, after the obligatory , it's back into walking along the razor's edge land.  Ohhhhh, I see.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
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Reply #118 on: January 21, 2009, 12:13:32 PM

Heh, maybe I should clarify...

I couldn't do what they did as much or as high as they did.  But I did manage to not press the stop button on the DVD and toss in the towel for the night. 

The dude jumping around on a prosthetic leg really pushes me to go through it.  Genius move for motivation if there ever was one:  See?  Dude only has ONE LEG and HE CAN DO IT!!! says the smarmy fucker that is Tony Horton.
stray
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Reply #119 on: January 22, 2009, 10:59:48 AM

Hey Neb, do you know a good "neck exercise"? I'm starting to look like Ally McBeal.
Nebu
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Reply #120 on: January 22, 2009, 11:07:19 AM

Hey Neb, do you know a good "neck exercise"? I'm starting to look like Ally McBeal.

HERE are some with weights and some isometric.  I prefer to use machines when I work my neck (it's a Nautilus machine that you put your face into and can work forward back or side-to-side) and always work shoulders and do shrugs to help with accessory muscle groups.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
stray
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Reply #121 on: January 22, 2009, 11:12:07 AM

Thanks. What is that machine exactly?
Nebu
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Reply #122 on: January 22, 2009, 12:20:12 PM

Thanks. What is that machine exactly?


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
stray
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Reply #123 on: January 22, 2009, 01:54:08 PM

By the way, do isometrics mainly just increase strength? Not that that's bad, I could use that in my neck too. But I do have a bit of an "aesthetic" concern here.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?


[edit] On a humourous note, that creepy infomercial guy, "John Basedow" did not work out his neck.





I don't know why, but I'm still cracking up on that rumor that he died in that tsunami a couple of years back.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 02:04:34 PM by Stray »
Nebu
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Reply #124 on: January 22, 2009, 02:54:57 PM

If you want to increase muscle mass you need both weights and a workout system meant to put on bulk.  Just working shoulders and upper back hard in a regular routine will often give you neck mass by default. 

To be honest, I really only work my neck to avoid injury and out of habit from my football days.  My neck and my forearms are the two areas I tend to isolate the least.  They get so much work while targeting larger muscle groups that I never really feel much need to work them separately. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
stray
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Reply #125 on: January 22, 2009, 03:07:45 PM

Well thanks. I have weights, but the only one I've tried is laying on my chest/weight on the back of my head. Figured there'd be others besides that and the whole "put on a jackstrap" on my head routine.... seems a bit too serious.  why so serious?
Hoax
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Reply #126 on: January 26, 2009, 09:59:27 AM

Ok so I've ordered some bands (never used em, like the idea of not having weights taking up space and stubbing my toes) and I've got the materials.  I'm going to start for real after the superbowl.

So this week I thought I start messing with it and trying to setup my baselines, make sure I figure out where in my house I can get it done, how to do it etc.  I'll try to take a before pic and post it but no gaurantees I can be assed to bother roommates digi camera.

I've got a question though, for pre/post protein intake what are people doing?  I'm esp interested in Nebu's thoughts since over the years I've heard all sorts of theories about how much and when you should eat before and after a workout.

Going to do the chest/back tonight, I got up at 6am this morning and the thought of excercising for an hour made me feel sick.  Not that I can't function in the mornings, just bleh my stomach is at its most finicky early in the day.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Nebu
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Reply #127 on: January 26, 2009, 10:10:22 AM

I've got a question though, for pre/post protein intake what are people doing?  I'm esp interested in Nebu's thoughts since over the years I've heard all sorts of theories about how much and when you should eat before and after a workout.

There isn't really any sudden burst of muscle development after a workout.  Consider the building of muscle tissue as 24-hour process.  With that in mind, getting adequate protein throughout the day is far more critical than the window after a workout. You simply need a few grams of protein to replace what was burned as energy and you're good to go.

In my experience, the most important nutrient after a workout is carbohydrate. While muscle rebuilding takes place over 24 - 72 hours following a workout, there is a window of a few hours where your muscles are "primed" to take in carbohydrates that were depleted during training. For this reason, you'll find the post-workout shakes to contain about a 2:1 carb-protein ratio to supply just enough protein but plenty of carbohydrate to refuel your muscles.  The type of protein you take in matters as well.  Whey protein is rapidly absorbed and rapidly cleared, so you'll need some protein that is dietary or soy based to make sure that you have consistent stores for rebuilding. 

I try to eat a snack 30-60 mins before I workout (usually balanced protein and carbs) and a shake after.  The shake is mostly to cover any protein that was catabolized by the workout and to keep my stores up.  Being a vegetarian, I supplement a lot anyway. 

Hope that helps.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #128 on: January 29, 2009, 09:39:02 AM

A PM from Itto reminded me that I wanted to update this..

As of today, I'm down to 203 lbs, a drop of 19 lbs since I started.  Although I didn't get my body fat measured at the start, I feel like I've lost more fat pounds than that, and have added a few pounds of muscle.  An impromptu measurement of the neck and waist showed a drop of 1.5 inches from the neck (down to 17") and a whopping 5.5 inches from around my midsection.  Which is probably a combination of losing weight and my abs getting stronger and holding my guts in better.

I haven't quite followed the diet as well as I'd like, but overall, I'd say 75 percent of my meals/snacks are straight from the program.

I added a fairly stout stretching routine to it that I do every morning, and I feel like that's helped tremendously.  Between the weight loss and stretching, I feel like I've come a really long ways - but fully recognize I still have a ways to go. 

The important thing is that I am feeling really freaking good, I'm sleeping much much better.  Back pain is nearly non existant.  My eating habits are drastically improved. 

And it's quite nice to hear "Damn, you look good" from your wife when you walk through the house after a workout without a shirt on.
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Reply #129 on: January 30, 2009, 05:47:52 AM

Not because I have a man-crush on you, but you should post an updated pic.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #130 on: January 30, 2009, 05:55:50 AM

That's great man. Kudos. Pretty neat to see you're already getting a 20lb loss/result.
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Reply #131 on: January 30, 2009, 08:27:59 AM

@ Cyrexx - I thought about it, might do something for the end of the 1st month.  Kinda want to wait until it's all over with and see if someone can do one of those morph things with photoshop or something.

@ Stray - Thanks, man. 
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Reply #132 on: February 05, 2009, 07:23:12 AM

Go watch the movie "Bigger faster stronger" and you'll quickly realize exactly how these guys do it. lol
Nebu
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Reply #133 on: February 05, 2009, 07:40:44 AM

As of today, I'm down to 203 lbs, a drop of 19 lbs since I started.  Although I didn't get my body fat measured at the start, I feel like I've lost more fat pounds than that, and have added a few pounds of muscle.  An impromptu measurement of the neck and waist showed a drop of 1.5 inches from the neck (down to 17") and a whopping 5.5 inches from around my midsection.  Which is probably a combination of losing weight and my abs getting stronger and holding my guts in better.

Impressive as hell!  Losing more than 2lbs a week is tough and it sounds like you're just tearing through this program.  Keep us updated.  You've been great motivation. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #134 on: February 05, 2009, 08:02:34 AM

Appreciate it, Neb.

Thing is, with my body type, all I really needed to do was to get moving and eat better.  Which probably can be said for just about anyone, but it's not in my genetics to be a fatass.  I had developed some really bad eating habits and become mostly sedentary.  When I did Schilds diet months ago, I dropped weight rather quickly (almost too fast).  Quitting smoking, while good for my overall health, added some pounds as well.  Hell, with just the diet alone I would have seen awesome results - I'm eating about 1/3rd calories I used to, and more importantly, they're good calories.

I was concerned that since I've approached middle age (damnit......) that it would be harder to get off.  But so far, that hasn't been the case.  Yeah, the program DOES work - but then again, doing anything is better than doing nothing. 

That said, I do expect the gains (losses?) to flatten out for the next 60 days.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2009, 08:04:34 AM by SnakeCharmer »
Nebu
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Reply #135 on: February 05, 2009, 08:08:05 AM

The only thing that I'll caution you about is that, like any exercise program, you'll start to plateau after 2-3 months.  The key here is to change the routine while maintaining intensity.  Your body is an amazing machine and will adapt to any program you throw at it.  The key is to keep your body guessing so that it always trying to adapt to the new, increased stress level.

I also encourage you to start a blog.  Places like bodybuilding.com give out cash to people that make impressive physical transformations.  You can become the posterchild for fitness!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Hindenburg
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Itto


Reply #136 on: February 07, 2009, 05:30:18 AM

The program ends after 3 months, and the workout sequence changes monthly.

"Who uses Outlook anyway?  People who get what they deserve, that's who." - Ard.
Hoax
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Reply #137 on: February 07, 2009, 12:13:06 PM

Tomorrow is my day of rest so here is my summation of week 1:

Chest & Back (Monday) -- Fucking pull ups, I have next to 0 upper body strength (slender build, never been fat so arms have never had to work hard, only sport I played seriously was soccer).  But I'm 6"1 / 170lbs so its not like its an light lift, fucking pull ups.  I did ok with everything else but holy chrsit the second round I was pretty much not going to get a pull up off if I went from full extension.  It was a little pathetic really.

Ab Ripper -- This is fun, my core is the only thing beyond running and random fuck around cardio that I ever work out.  Still a killer motherfucker at times but honestly the hardest thing is the bicycles because my quads were still sore from doing the fitness test max wall squat the day before.  Tired quads will be a theme of this whole week.  I also got very frustrated (I get angry when I'm at my max) when I got to those lying on your side crunch things.  I have no idea how the fuck you are supposed to do those.  I looked for form tips on the web but didn't find anything useful, I feel like a retarded sea lion trying to do them without some instruction on wtf I'm doing.  The mason hit the floor things at the end are nasty.  All in all though I like the ab ripper, after doing it 3 time I can feel the muscles getting deeper across my stomach, happy with this.

Plyo (Tuesday) -- Oh wow, I thought this was going to be chill, it was brutal at times, again my legs were being worked hard.

Shoulders & Arms (Wednesday) -- It will be interesting to do this next week now that I've got some notes on how much weight to use / which band.  I was having all sorts of trouble picking the right thing and keeping in rhythm.  Didn't feel too sore afterwards but probably because I couldn't really push it properly.

Ab Ripper -- Was more of the same, I think if anything I did my best run this day.

Yoga (Thursday) -- Oh fuck yes.  This was amazing.  I really absolutely loved this.  Even though I can't go a day without seeing people walking around with yoga mats slung over their shoulders and I have several friends and tons of people at work who swear by it I've never done any yoga.  Fucking great.  If nothing else I will be taking some yoga in the future, I have never felt such an amazing sweat 15 minutes into anything.  The balance shit was hard though, but I knew from wiiFit yoga that I fail at balance.  Will be fun to work on it.

Legs & Back (Friday) -- I took this on pretty late, squats were fucking killer, my legs are so worn down.  I went very easy on this one, no weight on anything really except the calf exercise which was amazing.  I wanted to go easy on my legs.  I also stopped doing any pull ups in the second half because my left elbow was fucked up from tossing the football around in the street the day before.  I didn't like the way it felt.  I also put off Ab Ripper a day because it was late as fuck when I finally finished.

Kenpo (Sat) -- I liked the start but the kicks felt silly, I need to look into kick mechanics because I felt like I was just throwing my legs around retarded.  I also could have gone with less karate and more punching but whatever.  I may just double up the first 10 minutes in the future.  It was fun and it did go fast. 

Ab Ripper  (Sat) -- This was brutal, not sure why.  I was just tired from the whole week maybe.  Bicycles made me want to cry and it was down hill from there.  I was taking 10 reps on 5 off 10 on for most of the exercises.

Thoughts:
Overall my soreness wasn't too bad.  I think my legs took a beating because there is alot of muscle there its just out of practice so I was able to push it and push it and then pay for it later.  My upper body is pretty much developing something from nothing so I can't go very hard in the first place. 

Its annoying how much outside research I needed to do to check out proper form and how to achieve it.  I get that your supposed to be a gym rat looking for the XTREME shit or whatever but still it'd be nice if in the documentation they went through each thing and how to do it correctly. 

The bands are pretty cool but take practice, the size of the loop is critical, it took me some time to figure out to stretch them to get the handles on.  I'm fucking retarded.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
-William Gibson
Nebu
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Reply #138 on: February 07, 2009, 01:17:38 PM

Chest & Back (Monday) -- Fucking pull ups, I have next to 0 upper body strength (slender build, never been fat so arms have never had to work hard, only sport I played seriously was soccer).  But I'm 6"1 / 170lbs so its not like its an light lift, fucking pull ups.  I did ok with everything else but holy chrsit the second round I was pretty much not going to get a pull up off if I went from full extension.  It was a little pathetic really.

I understand completely, but don't give up.  I'm 6' and 205, so I know all about it not being an easy lift.  Just keep doing them and you will gradually see improvement.  Also, you'll find that your body has natural strengths and tendencies.  For me pistol grip pullups are far easier than narrow grip with palms toward me which are easier than wide grip with palms away.  It's a matter of your strength in your biceps, shoulders, chest, and back that will help.  The more you do them, the easier they will become.  Don't give up. 

(sorry for the novel). 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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Reply #139 on: February 07, 2009, 02:05:17 PM

Pullups are key. Remember that changing your arm position significantly shifts the focus of the exercise. Wide-grip prone (palms-away) pullups are all about the back, less about the arms and shoulders. Tight-grip supine (palms-facing-you) pullups are largely bicep and shoulder, much less back. Thumbless grips will work your forearm and finger strength, fingertip grips more-so.

I do not recommend doing fingertip grips before you can do a couple sets of five thumbless, though. Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

As a climber, I make sure I incorporate at least one set into every workout with a varying grip/position. Since I started doing this regularly, my climbing has improved immensely and I'm getting close to where I was prior to leaving SF (high V3/low V4) even though my technique has degraded some. I can also campus like a motherfucker now, which makes for a fun "party trick" at the end of a climbing-gym outing. We've got a campusing ladder in my gym, and I do vertical laps on the fucker. Great way to finish an evening when your forearms/fingers can barely move, but your shoulders are still demanding more pain.

I'm also interested in the "Kenpo" segment of P90X; is there a video of this somewhere? I did actual Kenpo karate for several years, I'd like to see how faithful their "kenpo" section is. I expect Ed Parker is spinning in his grave. The basic ones I remember are the ball/cat kick, roundhouse, inward/outward arc kicks, rear kick, and side kick. The arc kicks are pretty weird, requiring a lot of timing and balance, but they're decent for scoring points in sparring competitions.
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