So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)

[Cyrrex]

So there are 3 distinct pulls in a snatch or a clean. 1 is off the floor, 2 is from above the knees (think hang clean), and 3 is pulling yourself under the as soon as it's feasible.

That said, 1 is slow, like a deadlift. Then you shift gears and explode once you clear your knees. Be super careful about yanking things off the floor!

PS my technique is where I'm lacking the most, so take it with a grain of salt.

Also, I feel like I'm going to have to try the 315 test, and I feel like I'm going to hate you the following day!

For the sake of simplifying the conversation, when I say speed from the floor, I am talking about both step 1 and step 2.  I agree I shouldn't be yanking anything off the floor, but I also know I could be trying to use a tad more speed, but am just scared to.  Which is probably for the best.  Anyway, it is indeed step 2 that is the real issue for me.  I tend to brute force it up once it gets past the knees.  I would like to be able to incorporate more pop from the knees/thighs (the bar fucking, as I like to call it), and get a more explosive shrug working at the same time.  And then be able to throw my body under it in a front squat type of position.  I compensate for not being good at phase two of the lift by using a lot of rage instead. 

I think you would do well on the 315 test.  Your general conditioning is far better than mine. 

[Cyrrex]

So I've figured out that the reason my squat has made fuck all progress is basically down to poor technique due to super tight hip/glutes. What are some good stretches I can do to actually get proper depth on my squat without turning it into a good morning?

Are you sure that is the reason?  If you take a relatively light weight - say 50 kilos or something like that (something a third to half of your max) - can you get down super low with relatively good form?  Say, just below or way below parallel?  Because if so, I doubt your issue has anything to do with flexibility.  If you are doing good mornings when the weight gets too heavy, I think it is far more likely that you core strength/stabilization issue.  That's what the test with the lighter weight will help determine.

Edit:  Another test I thought of - get on a leg press machine, and load it up fairly heavy (but light enough that you know you can move it).  Push it through a super exaggerated motion, let it push your knees back towards your head as far as possible.  I mean, like your knees are close to your head and you can smell your own smegma.  If you can do that, and push the weight back out again, you do not have mobility problems with your glutes or hips, me thinks.

[NowhereMan]

Doing squats with about 60kg, I can just about get down to parallel if I use a bit wider than shoulder width stance with toes about 30 degrees pointing out and even then I've got to really concentrat on 'pushing' my hips down or I just lean forward. I actually find getting depth easier with a bit of weight, when I've got just the bar I find it a real challenge to get my hips down without rounding my back quite a bit. I'll try the leg press thing though and see if I can manage it.

Also for reference I can do a set of 5 120kg deadlifts without killing myself so I feel I should be able to manage at least 70kg squats with decent form but it's a serious struggle.

[K9]

I have a similar issue, my squats are limited by tight hip muscles and glutes. I just try to warm up, and then do stretches like these to loosen up:







For form, I've been doing a lot of paused squats. For myself I'm doing triples with around 70kg, trying to sit in the hole for a good 5-10 seconds each time without dropping my chest or rounding my lower back. Having weight will force you down below parallel, and the pause should allow you to evaluate your weaknesses, and learn to tense up your core. It is also a legitimately tough exercise in and of itself, and it will teach you hip drive at the bottom of the lift. I'd recommend doing paused squats with around 40-60% of your working max initially, then bringing it up a bit as you get comfortable; if you're stuck at around 60kg on squats, I'd suggest doing paused squats with probably around 30-35Kg, and see how that works for you.

Remember to do your assistance work too; leg curls/nordics/glute-ham-raises for squats for instance.

[Cyrrex]

Yeah, if you really do have a tightness issue, I was going to say paused squats.  The general stretching is a good idea, obviously, but there probably isn't a better functional stretch than just hanging out in the bottom position of the squat itself.

It is possible you also have mobility issues in your lower vertebrae.  I know this is possible because it is exactly what I have and some of your issues are familiar to me.  I need at least 50 kg on the bar to go down past parallel (if I have to keep good form, anyway).  On the other hand, and somewhat strangely, my leg and glute muscles are very flexible.  If I do that Leg Press test, I can get my knees way up to my head no problem.  I guess that is why I am saying you should try that one as well, just to be sure.

Another thing to do is to widen your stance even a bit further (there is nothing wrong with doing that, it is in fact the best squatters in the world are likely going out as far as they can).  Or, put your heels on some plates, or buy lifting shoes...either of which move your center of balance to favor people like us, and make getting a good squat angle possible.  And while you are at it, for every rep you need to be focusing on pushing through your heals.  There should be little or no force going through your toes.  This is the mistake most people make.  If you are pushing with your toes, you are also leaning forward.

[NowhereMan]

Ok paused sets sound like a good idea, I'll give it a couple of weeks of seriously focusing on flexibility and form and see if things get more comfortable. Thanks alot guys.

[climbjtree]

So close to my near goal of 100kg C&J!

http://www.coachseye.com/fYGN

[Cyrrex]

Had to watch it like 40 times, because I couldn't stop focusing in on the chick in the background doing those Clean & Spasms.

I'm jealous of your cleans.  You make 95 look like 75.  As such, I am assuming it is your jerk that fails when you attempt 100?

[Nebu]

So close to my near goal of 100kg C&J!

http://www.coachseye.com/fYGN

Great form.  Nicely done.

[climbjtree]

Had to watch it like 40 times, because I couldn't stop focusing in on the chick in the background doing those Clean & Spasms.

I'm jealous of your cleans.  You make 95 look like 75.  As such, I am assuming it is your jerk that fails when you attempt 100?

Thanks y'all. I realize that jerk was hot garbage(should have dropped waaaay lower), but that's usually the strong link in this chain. My limiting issues are technique rather than strength. For one, I push the bar out front which ends up with my catching the weight on my toes and unable to stand up with it, and my third pull which is super slow. I catch the weight in like a quarter squat.

That girl next to me even had a coach. I'm not entirely sure what was going on there... it was pretty entertaining to watch. In her defense she was clearly just learning, and I think she was a little embarrassed.

[Chimpy]

This not being able to do anything because of my knee is maddening. Drove past like a dozen guys out on bike rides yesterday on my way home from work. It was a perfect afternoon for riding, about 70 degrees, light wind, partly cloudy so not a lot of sun glare. 

2 more weeks of physical therapy before I see the doc again. Hopefully I will get cleared to start doing more than just a bit of walking.

[Cyrrex]

I may have previously claimed a 105kg clean and press in this thread somewhere.  For the record, that was wrong...I found out later I was using a 15kg bar, so it was only 100.

So today I give 105 another shot - have failed it a handful of times.  I just can't seem to clean it, because my technique just breaks down too much once I get up this high.  I was feeling extra frisky today, and 100 went up relatively easy (100 is never technically easy), so off we go.  I was pretty sure that, and have said so in the past, I would be able to press anything I could clean... well I proved that wrong like a motherfucker today.  I finally managed to clean it.  It was by the skin of my teeth, and it must have looked like shit.  Biggest problem was that it took so much energy out of me, and I sort slammed it into my neck and collar bone too hard, resulting in that "I might black out if I am not careful" feeling.  Figured I had better attempt to press it super quick before I pass out, and that is a recipe for failure.  I didn't even get it above my nose.

So I can now officially do a 105kg clean, and I can do a 105kg push press.  I just can't do it at the same time.  But I can do a 105kg Clean and Press It a Few Days Later.

 

[Jimbo]

YA! Have dropped from 272 lbs to 238 lbs. Got my elliptical time to a 59.45 for 8 miles (comes out to an average of 7.43 mph). My uniforms are fitting looser and I'm feeling a ton better. Been lifting weights again too. High blood pressure is gone, heart rate is better, my sugar levels have dropped, so it is looking great! Some days I even go twice to gym, it is starting to feel like it did when i was younger 

[Nebu]

YA! Have dropped from 272 lbs to 238 lbs. Got my elliptical time to a 59.45 for 8 miles (comes out to an average of 7.43 mph). My uniforms are fitting looser and I'm feeling a ton better. Been lifting weights again too. High blood pressure is gone, heart rate is better, my sugar levels have dropped, so it is looking great! Some days I even go twice to gym, it is starting to feel like it did when i was younger 

Great work Jimbo.  Your knees will love you for it!

[Cyrrex]

Good job, Jimbo.  And might I add, stay on that elliptical and don't give into the temptation to run.  Running is the devil!

Even better, scale back the cardio and go nuts on the weights.  Way better bang for the buck, both in calorie burning and in visual effects.

[Jimbo]

I used to be a cardio nut when I was younger, riding my mountain bike to work and back and then to friends houses in town. Hell I would ride it to the bars some nights...but bicycle vs car is a bad situation. Thanks guys, yeah lifting is great, Nebu have you heard anything on how building the muscles can lower you A1C? My Doc is telling me the same, to hit the weights and it will help lower that (she is a DO and awesome, even if she does like to prescribe the expensive stuff).

[Nebu]

Nebu have you heard anything on how building the muscles can lower you A1C? My Doc is telling me the same, to hit the weights and it will help lower that (she is a DO and awesome, even if she does like to prescribe the expensive stuff).

If you're lowering your blood sugar (which lifting will do), then your a1C will naturally follow.  a1C is just a measure of long-term high blood sugar exposure.

Getting fit is 10% work and 90% diet.  I find the diet part the challenge. 

[Chimpy]

Was given the go ahead by the doctor to resume low to moderate impact activities yesterday so now I can get my bike tuned up and start riding again yay.

Hopefully in a couple more weeks I will be able to get back to running (there is a 5k I would like to do in late May).

[DraconianOne]

Ran the London Marathon today - well, most of it. Last 8 miles ended up being a bit of a slog owing to injury and my time was distinctly average but I finished and that was all that mattered today. Quite like the medal too:



Fucked if I'm doing it again though.

[JWIV]

This thread continues to be full of awesome people doing awesome things. Keep it up folks.

[Nebu]

Ran the London Marathon today - well, most of it. Last 8 miles ended up being a bit of a slog owing to injury and my time was distinctly average but I finished and that was all that mattered today.

Fucked if I'm doing it again though.

Now you know why they call mile 18 "the wall". 

Great job.  I understand how you feel completely.  They are hard on the body and mind.

[Cyrrex]

Wow, that's quite an accomplishment.  It doesn't seem all that long ago that you had a busted leg.

[Cyrrex]

A few more things I've learned recently, in my never-ending pursuit to not be 40.

- Sumo Deadlifts, once you get used to them, are pretty interesting.  It obviously changes the angle of your legs during the pull, but in my case it also seems to put my back in a better position.  And considering my back history, this is probably a good thing for me.  On the other hand, I failed a lift of 225 kg last week, and it hurt like a bitch.  I swear to shit, there is nothing that will drain you of both energy and will like a failed deadlift at this weight.

- I have started trying some interesting reps scheme for my leg workouts (not squat related).  For example, Leg Presses...start with a fairly light weight, one you can easily do for 10 reps.  Then you perform 10 reps, pause for 10 seconds.  Then 9 reps, and pause for 9 seconds.  8 reps, pause for 8 seconds....all the way down to 1.  Much harder than it sounds.  The lactic burn by the end is pretty significant.  For now I am trying this with Leg Presses and Calf Extensions, in an effort to actually stimulate some growth on these chicken legs of mine.

- Pull Up with Isometric Hold.  This might be the thing I have been missing since forever.  The idea is simple.  Do a single pull up or chin up and hold it at the top.  For as long as you can.  Semi-wide grip pull ups seems to be best with these, but I also do it with pronated chins.  I have worked my way up to holding it at the top for 50 seconds.  It is surprisingly easy to improve with these, and the results for me have been VERY apparent.  First, it has made all pulling (even wide grip) feel so much easier.  I used to hate pulling, especially wider than shoulder width grip, but I totally love them now.  I can also do way more reps, way more sets, and am also setting new personal bests with the weighted variations.  And most of all, for the first time ever I can actually see a direct effect on my lats.  I've never been able to really target them very well before and make them grow, but now they are appearing a bit more 3D.  There is no doubt at all that it is because the Isometric Hold has pushed me through a barrier.  I will never stop doing these. 

- Dips, dips, more dips.  Trying to supplement ordinary chest exercises...mostly for growth rather than pure strength...so I have begun doing these very seriously, to the extent that they become the main focus for my chest days.  Have gotten pretty good at them, and maybe I am also seeing a difference in the mirror.  I think the key here is to mix it up with weighted sets and with flat out max-rep sets.

[climbjtree]

Someone commented on my "workout dungeon" last year. Here's this year's dungeon:



Pretty functional! Before you call me out on those tiny weights on the rack in the middle? We have a dude rehabbing a shoulder injury with those bad boys.

[Chimpy]

So I bought a road bike today.

Got a used 2008 Orbea Onix from a guy off eBay. Second bike I have gotten off eBay where they posted as "Local Pickup Only". As I was going to visit a friend of mine that lives 10 minutes away from the location, I contacted the seller and arranged to look at it today if he had not sold it by then. Guy had bought it in 2009 to train for and race in the Chicago Triathlon, barely rode it the next year, then moved overseas for several years and stored it in his old bedroom in his parents' house. I went on a test ride and it feels very much like the new Trek I was looking at.

Paid $850 for it, just need to get a set of SPD pedals now and a cycle computer for it and I will be set to start working towards my goal of riding a century.

[CmdrSlack]

Ran the Soldier Field 10 Mile yesterday. My finish time was 2:17:57. I walked most of the last mile because my ankle was jacked up by then. Nonetheless, I now have a benchmark for next year's race. It also makes that sprint triathlon coming up in August seem way more doable.

[K9]

Someone commented on my "workout dungeon" last year. Here's this year's dungeon:



Pretty functional! Before you call me out on those tiny weights on the rack in the middle? We have a dude rehabbing a shoulder injury with those bad boys.

Nobody who lifts seriously and has dealt with injury would ever take beef with those little weights. There are a bunch of useful prehab/rehab exercises I use them for, predominantly for wrists and shoulders. I'd also say that most guys should be using weights in those range for DB flies/inverted flies. You might decide to use more weight, but your form is probably shit, there's no shame in using a little less weight well.

On topic, I am very jealous of your dungeon. Did you make the boxes yourself?

[01101010]

Amen. Playing volleyball in college tore my shoulders up so I been suffering in the labrum dept and will for the rest of my time. Rehabbed all the surrounding stabilizer muscles and always work those in at some point, but you can't rebuild the labrum without surgery or stemcell therapy. Lightweight is safer and you still get the benefits even if you have to up your rep range. Besides, the shoulders are smaller muscles and don't need a lot of weight. Those dumbbells also work better than just grabbing the 5-10lbs plates because you can actually grip those.

And kudos on that gym set up - that is how I always envision real weight training should look. Sadly, everything near me is crossfit everything with what looks like giant toys all over the floor and along with walls. I'm much more a bar and plates kind of person but give an exception to the fitness balls.

[K9]

Boxes are awesome. I love boxes. Box jumps, step ups, plyo hops, box squats; lots of great and fun exercises you can do with a solid box!

[Cyrrex]

Lightweight is safer and you still get the benefits even if you have to up your rep range. Besides, the shoulders are smaller muscles and don't need a lot of weight.

Well...While I agree with your point in general you absolutely don't get ALL the same benefits.  If you are bodybuilding and don't care about being strong (and super bonus points if you are also juicing), then you are pretty much correct and you have also described most of the younger dudes at my gym.  If getting strong is your priority, then shoulder strength is super important, and you won't get it without lifting heavy things over your head.  Your point about rehab is spot on, in any case.  And you sure as shit need to be careful with your shoulders, because they seem to get fucked up pretty easily.

On a similar note, I finally, FINALLY succeeded with a 105kg Clean and Press today (at about 82.5kg bodyweight, which is actually on the low side for me lately).  I then threw that motherfucker across the room so that it knew it was my bitch.  FUCK YOU 105. 

[climbjtree]

Dude, nothing feels better than those Oly improves! Congrats!

As to the picture, everything in there is homemade minus the pull up/dip combo thing, the rogue adjustable rack, and the cables machine - that was scavenged.

[Jimbo]

May was my crucible. I was doing good, loosing weight, blood pressure was down, sugar was down, feeling good, time and distance was getting better, and I was really enjoying my cardio work outs. When about May 13 I was working on the elliptical and doing great and "Bam!" it hit me like hammer in the right side of my chest. I couldn't get my air, it wasn't like a wheeze or breathing threw a bubble short of breath, nor was it a tightness or pain that was in my chest, it was like I couldn't get my air. So what did I do? I continued the work out, which I was mad since my time sucked (this since of duty to complete is going to kill me someday), got a shower and went to work and was bitching to my co-workers that something wasn't right. They wanted to check me in, but I said, "no I've got an apt on Thursday, she can do a work up then." I saw her (my Doc) and she was like giving me that look, "you have pedal edema, short of breath, weird chest pain on right side (which I kept denying), sudden onset, your blood pressure is up along with your heart rate." I was like, "can it be my allergies?" She said, "have you ever told anyone they have that from allergies?" I'm like busted, I said, "no." She said, "exactly!" So we did a blood test, it was positive for blood clots, then Monday they did a CT scan and found I have three blood clots in the right lung. I've been on coumadin and lovenox for now, it is taking forever to get my pt/inr up to theraputic levels, and she put me off work and on a ton of restrictions.

This actually steeled me and made me think to get my butt in gear. I was going to loose weight and apply to be a flight RN, but with a history of pulmonary embolisms (blood clots in lungs), they will never pass a physical. So I enrolled in my BSN and eventually start working towards being a FNP (family nurse practitioner). I feel great now, so she is letting me ease back into cardio, almost got my old times back. The blood thinners suck, it makes it easy to get a sun burn.

The past week I've been able to get back on the elliptical and get a nice work out that feels great. She doesn't want me to ride my bike yet (afraid I'll crash), but I can start doing some other work outs, so swimming is good and some light stretching and lifting.

Congradz to all the others in this thread! Marathons, lifting, and the struggle :)

I wish food wasn't so fun to cook and eat, I can get the moving and cardio, just hate giving up the food. Eventually I'll modify the diet, but it is going slower than the working out.

[Cyrrex]

Take care of yourself, dude.  Sounds like you are at least taking shit seriously, though it is always easier to do with those kinds of issues.  For me, it was a diagnosis of an unacceptably high cholesterol level, and some borderline blood sugar numbers.

For the umpteen billionth time, however, I am going to throw this out there:  Resistance training > Cardio.  It is not even close.  There are benefits to be had for a bit of regular cardio, but resistance training has it beat to a pulp for most health and all aesthetic reasons.  Do your cardio to get you warmed up or something, but then go lift like a maniac.

[Jimbo]

I got the clearance to start lifting again. So I'm doing a small cardio to warm up (about 30 mins and 5 mins cool down), then I'm going to try this plan: http://www.aworkoutroutine.com/the-beginner-weight-training-workout-routine/

His plan is great for me, not a lot to remember, will make it easier to get back into it, and with the way I work, it will be allot easier to keep at it. Work days are crazy, so I usually don't have more than an hour to exercise then head to work, on my days off I can take the time to do more training (I'm only working 3 days a week, but they are 13+hour shifts sometime). Been trying to alter my diet, slow going, but getting there too.

Good news is I seem to be back almost to the speed and endurance before I had the blood clot. Doc is yelling, most people who have blood clots don't bounce back, plus I'm not therapeutic yet either (ya I'm resistant to rat poison!).

[Chimpy]

So for those of you who have taken up cycling or are thinking about it: Get your bike professionally fitted at a local bike shop.

I had a fitting for my Orbea on Monday and it is an unbelievably different experience. I thought the bike was awesome when I got it (with the exception of the saddle which I knew I needed to replace as it was the wrong size/shape) but I was amazed at the difference the fitting made. I went for my usual "short" ride of 9.5 miles Monday after work and shaved over 5 minutes off my fastest time (including several full-light stops at traffic lights) and felt better afterwards.

On another note, finally was able to move into more general stretching and core strengthening exercises for my back with the physical therapist today. Should be able to ease back into lifting and running by the beginning of July.