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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477206 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #875 on: December 02, 2012, 06:01:49 AM

That's a great pic man...looks like you got about 400 lbs on there?  At any rate, 4 plates per side is what it's all about.

I was going to go into a whole "what's up with the straps" spiel, but then I got to thinking a bit, and you've inspired me, at least for one day.  I have been deliberately avoiding straps for everything except heavy dumbbell rows, because I have been trying so hard to improve my grip strength.  I'd gotten to the point where I had sorta ignored the possibility of lifting with straps, and maybe I shouldn't be.  So!  Today (deadlift day) I decided to bring my straps with me.  Worked up to my 180kg lift strapless, then decided nut up, put on the straps and try 190kg.  Was pretty confident that I would get it up, and I did.  Pondered it for a minute, and put it up to 200kg (which is scary looking on the bar, let me tell you).  Had to really work myself up mentally for the attempt.  It's crazy how you can feel the adrenaline start to shoot through your system for something like this.  Anyway, I pulled it off.  Like a gay man in a brothel, I had a really hard time getting it up.  But I got it up and held in there for a few seconds.  Holy shit.  Even the concentric move back to the floor was a motherfucker.  Worse part about the whole thing?  There was nobody within 20 meters of me who saw me do it.  There might have been a guy on a treadmill far back to my left who may have stumbled for a moment whilst admiring my fantasticness  Ohhhhh, I see.

I guess it counts as a PB?  I think I will keep track of two numbers now, 200 with the straps, 182.5 without.

For the cleans, yeah, technique is what it's all about.  I wasn't too good at them in the beginning (and some of my form still leaves much to be desired).  Learned a couple simple things that help a little:  One, keep your elbows pointed outwards, directly parallel to the bar for the first part of the lift.  Second, treat the lift as three different phases....you have to slowly pull it up to about around your knees.  Once you get it to that point, only then do you really increase the speed of the lift an pull it hard.  Third, and the part I am still not good at, drop your body by bending your knees and throwing yourself under the bar in a bit of a front squat position.  Part of the problem I had was that I found slightly lower weights to be so easy that I would cheat on the form...and then when it came time for the heavier stuff, it just didn't work.  Practice practice practice.  

« Last Edit: December 02, 2012, 06:33:33 AM by Cyrrex »

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #876 on: December 02, 2012, 06:10:01 AM

Also, that is an epic beard.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Reply #877 on: December 02, 2012, 09:15:01 AM

Thanks for the beard props, I'm rather proud of it! I started growing it in September, and I'll grow it until the end of April... should be pretty legit by then!

As for the straps - my buddies can deadlift more than I can and straps let me pretend I can keep up. My grip sucks and that was at the end of a workout so without straps there's no way I'd be able to hold on. A 200kg DL, straps or no, is plain ol' bad assery. Hell yeah it's a PB! Good job!

As you said, the rush from lifting something super heavy is awesome. And it's also awesome when someone is there to bask in your post lift glory! There's not a lot that compares to it, so please accept this virtual basking.

I stepped on a digital scale today, and the readout said 189.2 lbs which means I've lost a little bit of weight. You're lifting more than I am, what do you weigh?

Nebu
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Reply #878 on: December 02, 2012, 09:30:14 AM

Nice lift man. 

I gave up on deadlifts when I hit 35 because they were too hard on my old injuries.  I do a lot more iso work now to stay fit and have really been hitting the naturals hard.  At home, I have a backpack that I fill with plates for dips, pullups and pushups.  It's a bit to get used to, but the shifting helps me maintain form and focus while lifting. 

I'm starting to sound like a crazy man in the Montana mountains.  I'll shut up now. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #879 on: December 02, 2012, 10:31:36 PM

I stepped on a digital scale today, and the readout said 189.2 lbs which means I've lost a little bit of weight. You're lifting more than I am, what do you weigh?

I think you are lifting quite a bit more than me on the bench and squats though, and that's significant.  I weigh right around 177 lbs at the moment, on a 5'8" frame.  I'm also almost as old and crusty as Nebu, but my mind is still sound, so I haven't yet resorted to backpacks filled with rocks and wet diapers ( Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?)

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
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Reply #880 on: December 03, 2012, 06:28:19 AM

I'm moving tomorrow, so I won't have access to a gym for a few weeks. Do you guys have any ideas for good bodyweight exercises I can do in the intervening time? Stuff that doesn't require equipment.

So far, all I've got is lunges, squats and push-ups, but that doesn't seem comprehensive enough.
K9
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Reply #881 on: December 03, 2012, 06:47:43 AM


I like your exercise dungeon

I'm moving tomorrow, so I won't have access to a gym for a few weeks. Do you guys have any ideas for good bodyweight exercises I can do in the intervening time? Stuff that doesn't require equipment.

So far, all I've got is lunges, squats and push-ups, but that doesn't seem comprehensive enough.

You're missing a pulling exercise, but unless you have somewhere to do pullups your options for that will be a bit limited. Walkouts are one bodyweight exercise I quite like for shoulders, core and upper back.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 06:59:52 AM by K9 »

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DraconianOne
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Reply #882 on: December 03, 2012, 07:13:44 AM

I'm moving tomorrow, so I won't have access to a gym for a few weeks. Do you guys have any ideas for good bodyweight exercises I can do in the intervening time? Stuff that doesn't require equipment.

So far, all I've got is lunges, squats and push-ups, but that doesn't seem comprehensive enough.

There's loads you can do with just body weight and even more if you can find a bench/chair/steps to use:

Variations: sumo squat, transverse/reverse lunge, wide-arm/diamond press-ups.
With bench/seat: decline push-ups, bulgarian split quats, tricep dips, inverted shoulder press, step-ups (with high knees)
Dynamic: squat jumps, lunge/split jumps, squat thrusts, burpees, bastards (burpees with added push-up)

If you have space to move (a park or field) there's obviously a load more you can do - only limit is imagination.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I regularly do body weight circuits at 4-5 sets of 10-15 reps of 6 exercises with no RI. Takes 20 minutes or so and feels like I've had a good workout. At risk of Cyrrex rolling his eyes, I also occasionallly include core work - crunches, planks, superman etc - although most of the time I work them through high knee raises, squat thrusts and so on.

EDIT: K9 makes a good point about a pulling exercise you can do one using a table if you're prepared to risk it.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2012, 07:19:53 AM by DraconianOne »

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #883 on: December 03, 2012, 11:39:11 AM

I'm also almost as old and crusty as Nebu, but my mind is still sound, so I haven't yet resorted to backpacks filled with rocks and wet diapers ( Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?)

Hey man... it worked for this guy!

Everyone loves a montage!

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #884 on: December 04, 2012, 04:06:46 AM


I regularly do body weight circuits at 4-5 sets of 10-15 reps of 6 exercises with no RI. Takes 20 minutes or so and feels like I've had a good workout. At risk of Cyrrex rolling his eyes, I also occasionallly include core work - crunches, planks, superman etc - although most of the time I work them through high knee raises, squat thrusts and so on.

EDIT: K9 makes a good point about a pulling exercise you can do one using a table if you're prepared to risk it.

 rolleyes

Nah, just kidding.  Anything is better than nothing, and your advice is particularly good for someone only doing bodyweight stuff.  Also, I have done most of those very things whilst rehabbing my bulging disc issue. 

Meanwhile, I got a tad over-eager yesterday and nearly ended up doing "The Roll of Shame".  I was going for a 125kg bench, a full 5 kg increase on my PB.  I did not succeed, and had no spotter (I know, pretty smart of me, but I never use one).  So I was hovering there for what felt like an eternity, about two inches short of locking it out.  I just couldn't do it.  Took me a couple seconds to realize that I had managed to push it up far enough to rack it back on the lower rack of the bench.  Phew.  Was a bummer though, because I was so close.  Even a single kilo or two less and I would have had it.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nebu
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Reply #885 on: December 04, 2012, 07:17:28 AM

Meanwhile, I got a tad over-eager yesterday and nearly ended up doing "The Roll of Shame".  I was going for a 125kg bench, a full 5 kg increase on my PB.  I did not succeed, and had no spotter (I know, pretty smart of me, but I never use one).  So I was hovering there for what felt like an eternity, about two inches short of locking it out.  I just couldn't do it.  Took me a couple seconds to realize that I had managed to push it up far enough to rack it back on the lower rack of the bench.  Phew.  Was a bummer though, because I was so close.  Even a single kilo or two less and I would have had it.

Call me crazy, but I've found that little things like what I had for breakfast or how much sleep I got the night before could have a huge impact on reaching a PB.  I bet that you'll bang that weight out on a day when you're feeling at your best.  Just get a spotter this time!

On a side note, I'm getting tendonitis in my elbows from doing wide grip pullups.  I think I'm going to do nothing but naturals from now until mid-January and see if I can give my joints a rest.  Anyone else have this issue?

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #886 on: December 04, 2012, 07:50:13 AM

Meanwhile, I got a tad over-eager yesterday and nearly ended up doing "The Roll of Shame".  I was going for a 125kg bench, a full 5 kg increase on my PB.  I did not succeed, and had no spotter (I know, pretty smart of me, but I never use one).  So I was hovering there for what felt like an eternity, about two inches short of locking it out.  I just couldn't do it.  Took me a couple seconds to realize that I had managed to push it up far enough to rack it back on the lower rack of the bench.  Phew.  Was a bummer though, because I was so close.  Even a single kilo or two less and I would have had it.

Call me crazy, but I've found that little things like what I had for breakfast or how much sleep I got the night before could have a huge impact on reaching a PB.  I bet that you'll bang that weight out on a day when you're feeling at your best.  Just get a spotter this time!

On a side note, I'm getting tendonitis in my elbows from doing wide grip pullups.  I think I'm going to do nothing but naturals from now until mid-January and see if I can give my joints a rest.  Anyone else have this issue?

Not crazy at all...state of mind and what's in your stomach mean a great deal, IMO.

I have only ever gotten tendonitis from preacher curls and the like, but I guess that is a similar movement for the elbow.  Usually just take a short break.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yoru
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Reply #887 on: December 06, 2012, 01:55:54 AM

Cool, thanks guys. I'll make up a circuit from those. Chairs/stairs/beds are easy enough to use, but I definitely don't have anywhere I can do pullups - a shame, as they're my absolute favorite bodyweight exercise and I include 3 sets of them at the end of every single gym workout I do.

On a side note, I'm getting tendonitis in my elbows from doing wide grip pullups.  I think I'm going to do nothing but naturals from now until mid-January and see if I can give my joints a rest.  Anyone else have this issue?

You could do some straight-arm hangs to maintain grip strength. Very little stress on the elbows, but still gets you a bit of time on the hands and shoulders and stabilizing muscles. Bonus points if want to do leg raises while hanging.
Nebu
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Reply #888 on: December 06, 2012, 07:29:25 AM

You could do some straight-arm hangs to maintain grip strength. Very little stress on the elbows, but still gets you a bit of time on the hands and shoulders and stabilizing muscles. Bonus points if want to do leg raises while hanging.

The reason that I've been doing wide grip pull ups is that I want more back work, but bent over rows make me sick to my stomach for some odd reason.  I'm also not a huge fan of cable machines.  Usually, I hang a 25lb plate and do sets of 8 rather than sets of 12 with no body weight.  My gym is closed from Dec 15th to Jan 15th (campus), so I usually just do naturals at home for that month. 


"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
K9
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Reply #889 on: December 06, 2012, 09:43:01 AM

I read a good paper a while back that actually looked at the varying degrees of muscle activation with different pull-up grips. Overall there was no significant difference. Wider grip pull ups are more challenging certainly, but the authors of the paper concluded that there was no obvious advantage to picking any one grip over another.

As a result I have stuck with neutral grip chins, partly because it goes easier on my shoulders, but also because I can add on more weight and do a greater range of motion. YMMV.

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Nebu
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Reply #890 on: December 06, 2012, 10:32:46 AM

I read a good paper a while back that actually looked at the varying degrees of muscle activation with different pull-up grips. Overall there was no significant difference.

My physiology training suggests otherwise.  I'll see if I can find that paper.  

Think about it.  Wide grip pullups are the same motion as lat pull downs. Neutral grip are the same as hammer curls.  Chins are wide grip curls (much like seated rows if you pull your body up with the row motion).  Normal pull-ups emphasize shoulders more (reverse curls).

It's like saying that bench, fly, incline, and decline do the same thing for your pecs.  

« Last Edit: December 06, 2012, 11:17:54 AM by Nebu »

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
DraconianOne
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Reply #891 on: December 06, 2012, 11:48:00 AM

I'd like to read that paper too but at the moment, I agree with Nebu.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
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Reply #892 on: December 06, 2012, 01:45:04 PM

I read a good paper a while back that actually looked at the varying degrees of muscle activation with different pull-up grips. Overall there was no significant difference.

My physiology training suggests otherwise.  I'll see if I can find that paper.  

Think about it.  Wide grip pullups are the same motion as lat pull downs. Neutral grip are the same as hammer curls.  Chins are wide grip curls (much like seated rows if you pull your body up with the row motion).  Normal pull-ups emphasize shoulders more (reverse curls).

It's like saying that bench, fly, incline, and decline do the same thing for your pecs.  



I get your point, and I'm not going to argue that there's no difference, but as I recall the main summary of the paper was that the net effect across all muscles involved was fairly equal, within confidence intervals. The analogy between pullups and chest exercises is a bit limited as you are working different planes of motion; and I don't really see the analogy between hammer curls and neutral grip. Any pullup you do will incorporate your lats biceps, rhomboids and traps; you can't dramatically isolate or target one of those groups merely by widening or closing your grip, that was the thesis I remember at least.

My personal experience from alternating between neutral and wide is that I can do more weight and a fuller range of motion with neutral grip, which equates the mechanical disadvantage of wider grips and at the end of the day my lats feel equally tired and progress equally fast either way; I just don't get as many cramps and tears on my shoulders.

The paper was in something like Exercise Physiology and Nutrition, I can't remember the exact name, but I'll have a look for it later.

Anyhow, as soon as I find somewhere to hang my rings this whole discussion will become a bit redundant for me.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cyrrex
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Reply #893 on: December 06, 2012, 10:54:43 PM

I have seen that same exact information.  They physically measured the output of each muscle being recruited, and found the differences to be small enough to be insignificant.  For most people, wide grips simply seem like they are working you harder due to the mechanical disadvantage.  Close, neutral grips fool you into believing you are working your biceps far more...simply because you are probably actually doing more reps and/or more weight.  I think this is becoming the new best practice.  Simply do the one that you are best at, which for most people is the close/neutral.

That said!  The current bro-science community doesn't seem fully agree.  Anecdotal experience from more advanced body builders tends to still favor the widegrip stuff for emphasis on the lats, from what I can tell. 

Personally, I don't know.  I tend to alternate between three or four different grips, because why not? 

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Yoru
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Reply #894 on: December 07, 2012, 12:40:54 AM

I prefer wide-grip because it feels like it wears my hands out more, and it's easier to cling to the bar using only fingertips overhand rather than underhand.

I doubt most people are just using their fingertips for these though; I do it to build/maintain crimp strength for climbing since I rarely have access to an actual rock simulator.
proudft
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Reply #895 on: December 07, 2012, 12:50:34 AM

I use fingers only as well.  I started like that to avoid banging up my ring but now that my ring doesn't fit on my fingers anymore I still do it that way just to avoid getting weird callouses.  Close grip, too - I can't even do a single wide grip one compared to my whopping three close ones.   

Pullups have been my slowest-increasing exercise BY FAR.  I keep hoping rows will help them out, I dunno, maybe they are.  It took me like three months to do one, and the third one at the moment involves quite a bit of flailing about.    ACK!
Cyrrex
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Reply #896 on: December 07, 2012, 01:24:36 AM

Well, pull-ups are hard.  Most people can't do them at all, so feel proud(ft) that you can do any.  Try palms in, and see if you can churn out a couple more (you might).

I prefer wide-grip because it feels like it wears my hands out more.

When I first read that, I was all  swamp poop, but yeah, I guess that makes a lot of sense for a rock climber.  There are otherwise better was to work on your grip, but that seems a rather relevant exercise for you.  Most pros recommend doing all pulling exercises (including heavy things like rows and deadlifts) with your fingers, if for no other reason than to help avoid callouses.  Hard for a lot of people to do, though, because usually you will fail sooner that way.

And Nebu?  You know darn well that close grip pullups/chins are not analogous to hammer curls.  How much do you weigh, 85 kg?  Can you hammer curl that much?  If I weigh myself down, I can just about do a chin up for about 120-125 kg, and there is no way on earth I could curl even 60% of that amount.  Your back muscles are worked like crazy on an ordinary chin up (palms in, close grip), otherwise you would never be able to do one..  I think you know this, but it is worth making it clear if there are others reading this that don't know it.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
K9
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Reply #897 on: December 07, 2012, 04:29:39 AM

I doubt most people are just using their fingertips for these though; I do it to build/maintain crimp strength for climbing since I rarely have access to an actual rock simulator.

We have a fingerboard in my gym, which is sweet for those times when I really want to murder my fingers. I don't know how serious climbers do it to be honest. I really want to have a pegboard though.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
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Reply #898 on: December 07, 2012, 05:53:03 AM

I doubt most people are just using their fingertips for these though; I do it to build/maintain crimp strength for climbing since I rarely have access to an actual rock simulator.

We have a fingerboard in my gym, which is sweet for those times when I really want to murder my fingers. I don't know how serious climbers do it to be honest. I really want to have a pegboard though.

If you're really pushing it, you shouldn't be able to even hold on to a beer or open a door for an hour or so after. After a few weeks of breaking your hands consistently, you can grip some insane shit. Looks like magic to climbing virgins.
DraconianOne
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Reply #899 on: December 07, 2012, 08:07:14 AM

I recommend rugby to break your fingers. Literally.

(I'd link the pics to show why I can only do pull-ups or deadlift with a two fingered grip but they're not pretty.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? )

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
LK
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Reply #900 on: December 07, 2012, 02:07:42 PM

Great stuff here guys. Thanks for all the information. I have been searching for new body-weight exercises to work muscle groups -- walkouts look great and something I will try.

As an addendum, I've found the Perfect Pull-up and its ilk has been useful to getting a pull-up / chin-up routine wherever there is a doorway. Not terribly costly either.

"Then there's the double-barreled shotgun from Doom 2 - no-one within your entire household could be of any doubt that it's been fired because it sounds like God slamming a door on his fingers." - Yahtzee Croshaw
Cyrrex
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Reply #901 on: December 10, 2012, 12:56:32 AM

Deadlift day again yesterday, and this time there happened to be a relatively large crowd around (in a relatively tight space).  When I had 200kg on the bar, there were now people noticably staring at me as I was getting ready for the attempt, including at least one rather hot woman.  That was more pressure than I really needed, thanks.  I think I preferred it without onlookers.  Got it up, thank goodness.  Was hard, but a smidge less so than week, probably because my preceding lift at 180 was done with straps this time, so I had more energy left over.  So I decided that I had enough left for an attempt at 205kg as well.  It might seem kind of insignificant to put two tiny plates on the end of the bar at this point, but I was actually pretty nervous about it.  And for good reason, it turned out.  I did manage to pull it off, but God help me it was a bitch.  I don't think it would be possible for me to put more effort into a lift.  I probably should not have done 200 immediately before.  My form broke down, and I managed it only through sheer force of will.  I may try again next week at the same weight without doing 200 before, just to see if I can get it up with a bit less of a struggle, but beyond that I am not sure I have it in me to go any higher.  It blows my mind that there are human beings that can actually take this much weight, and quite a bit more, and throw it up over their damn heads.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Reply #902 on: December 10, 2012, 03:44:34 AM

Yeah dude, it's nuts. 5kg isn't a lot of weight, but it makes a significant difference when you're at your max.
K9
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Reply #903 on: December 10, 2012, 03:23:09 PM

It blows my mind that there are human beings that can actually take this much weight, and quite a bit more, and throw it up over their damn heads.

I'm the same. When I'm maxing out on some lifts it just seems impossible to me that people could lift so much, with such ease. That 205kg deadlift you could barely move? This is what it looks like when you snatch it, or how about a 225kg push press. This stuff just amazes me. I know there are some ridiculous powerlifting records, but some roided up freak wrapped up in more kevlar than a US marine, moving a bench press 3inches down and up will never be as impressive as what some of these Olympians do.

 ACK!

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
K9
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Reply #904 on: December 12, 2012, 08:56:09 AM

Anyone fancy trying this?   DRILLING AND MANLINESS


I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #905 on: December 16, 2012, 02:37:22 PM

Anyone able to recommend a good running phone app?  I've been using Nike+ for many months, but it's become far too unreliable.  Need a recommendation for a gps + tracker app that won't shit the bed with an audio player.  Thank ye.
Trippy
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Reply #906 on: December 16, 2012, 09:54:10 PM

Which iOS device are you running with? The older ones don't support multitasking which will complicate music playback.
DraconianOne
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Reply #907 on: December 16, 2012, 11:46:22 PM

Prior to getting a Garmin, I used the RunKeeper app and I still upload my data to the RK site.  My racing partner swore by MapMyRun's app. There's also Endomondo which seems to be adding lots of features all the time - it looks like you can now set it up to do intervals and set programs which it didn't used to. I've never used it though but a cycling mate of mine does and likes it.

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Soln
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the opportunity for evil is just delicious


Reply #908 on: December 17, 2012, 12:02:44 PM

Apologies -- this is for Android   Ohhhhh, I see.

Edit: thanks for the good advice DraconianOne
« Last Edit: December 17, 2012, 12:16:05 PM by Soln »
Trippy
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Reply #909 on: December 17, 2012, 12:15:48 PM

awesome, for real

RunKeeper and Endomondo which DraconianOne mentioned are available on Android as well. So too is MapMyRun though that seems to be getting some negative reviews.
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