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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company) 0 Members and 3 Guests are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477259 times)
DraconianOne
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Reply #805 on: October 09, 2012, 01:33:08 AM

Thanks man! How are you when it comes to running? I am complete and utter garbage, and if I get up around 200 lbs? Fuggetaboutit.

I'm losing strength on my way down to 180.  I just can't seem to get lighter than 190 without getting sick or getting skinny. 

I started running 3 miles a day (~ 8 min mile pace) but found that it was pretty low yield in terms of fitness vs injury.  Lately I've been riding a stationary bike with resistance high enough to keep my HR around 140 BPM (resting is ~50 BPM) and find that more effective from a fitness standpoint while less from an aerobic standpoint.  Since I doubt I will qualify for the Olympics, that's a fine sacrifice for me.

What do you mean by "fitness" in this context?

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #806 on: October 09, 2012, 07:18:53 AM

What I meant by 'fitness' was that I feel strong and lean, but it doesn't give quite the aerobic benefit (improved VO2 max) that I'd get from road work. 

I'll try to be better about mu verbage.  I wrote this with two students in my office. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
DraconianOne
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Reply #807 on: October 09, 2012, 09:17:50 AM

Heh - no problem but I wasn't sure whether you were talking aerobic, anaerobic or other.

How long are you on the bike and have you incorporated intervals into that (working at 160-170 bpm)?




A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Nebu
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Reply #808 on: October 12, 2012, 07:26:56 AM

Heh - no problem but I wasn't sure whether you were talking aerobic, anaerobic or other.

How long are you on the bike and have you incorporated intervals into that (working at 160-170 bpm)?

I'm not sure that I can physically get to 170 bpm anymore without something like a stress test.  I also don't care to do much more than spin.  I'm not training for anything at the moment.  Just trying to keep my legs in shape without doing anything that will make my knees hurt in the morning.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
JWIV
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Reply #809 on: October 13, 2012, 05:36:43 PM

Ran another half today and finally managed to avoid any type of long lasting injury.  Both calves twinged at 10.5, so I did a mix of run/walk/stretch and slowing my pace.  Finished with a new PR and the idea of stretching out to the full is beginning to sound less terrible.   I think I do need to get at least one more half in with a set of compression socks or something to see if I can avoid the calf cramping, since it's now happened in every half I've ran.
K9
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Reply #810 on: October 14, 2012, 12:38:15 PM

Does anyone have any views on skipping (with a rope) as a warmup/agility exercise?

I'm thinking about giving it a go; although this would also require me learning how to skip. Cue hilarity I'm sure.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Mosesandstick
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Reply #811 on: October 14, 2012, 01:15:30 PM

I skip a fair bit, most often just before I start my martial arts sessions. I really enjoy it but I don't know how useful it is. Skipping is definitely hilarious though.
climbjtree
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Reply #812 on: October 14, 2012, 10:51:43 PM

Jumping rope is good cardio, I like to rotate it with running and rowing to keep things fresh. Cardio is excruciatingly boring so I definitely need some variance.

In other news, I managed to bench 315 yesterday for the second time in my life. Though I must say it was ugly... real ugly... but it happened!
Cyrrex
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Reply #813 on: October 14, 2012, 10:58:42 PM

Does anyone have any views on skipping (with a rope) as a warmup/agility exercise?

I'm thinking about giving it a go; although this would also require me learning how to skip. Cue hilarity I'm sure.

I see more and more people doing it at my gym.  Often times it is hot women, for some reason.  I can only conclude that it might turn you into a hot woman.  Joking aside, boxers do it, so I imagine it must be pretty effective.

On another note, I managed to pull off a 190 kg trap bar deadlift yesterday.  My grip started to fail about a half a heartbeat after I locked it out, so I am going to count it.  I may have made a grunting sound.  Form is starting to get a little too dodgy at these weights, so I may have to try to plateau here for a while until such time that I can do it a little more cleanly (though I will have to give 180 kg a go on the regular bar this week).

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #814 on: October 15, 2012, 02:47:46 AM

Ran another half today and finally managed to avoid any type of long lasting injury.  Both calves twinged at 10.5, so I did a mix of run/walk/stretch and slowing my pace.  Finished with a new PR and the idea of stretching out to the full is beginning to sound less terrible.   I think I do need to get at least one more half in with a set of compression socks or something to see if I can avoid the calf cramping, since it's now happened in every half I've ran.

Well done on the new PR.  DRILLING AND MANLINESS

I fully encourage you to stetch and also work on your mobility far more - because I didn't and am now paying the price for it. My ITB is still an issue and that's because of poor hip mobility, tight quads and also tight calves (and my last ultra probably didn't help). A week ago, after a not-as-gentle-as-it-should-have-been  8 mile run to work, I got extreme pain in my left foot that left me unable to walk without pain for two days. Diagnosis: plantar fasciitis -  caused, unsuprisingly, by tight calves and achilles (and possibly having put on a few too many pounds over the last couple of months - currently around 205).

I'm confident most of this could probably have been avoided by not slacking off and doing my stretching regularly and making out with my foam-roller religously.

I also suffer from calf cramping a lot (as well as Benign Fasciculation Syndrome usually after running 10-15 miles) but have had far less problems when I do use the foam roller so if you haven't got one, I really recommend getting one.

So now I'm not running for a while and will be putting my legs back into order (and shifting those extra pounds in the gym).

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
JWIV
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Reply #815 on: October 15, 2012, 04:39:59 AM

I skip a fair bit, most often just before I start my martial arts sessions. I really enjoy it but I don't know how useful it is. Skipping is definitely hilarious though.

I'm a fan.  Just mix it up a little doing a set forwards and then a backwards set. 

DraconianOne -  I've been bad about it the past month or so, but I was usually doing yoga at least once a week for about that reason.  I've had IT issues in the past and yoga helped a lot in stretching that out and keeping it from recurring.  I'm terrible with forcing myself to use the roller though.  I need to, but that stupid thing hurts like hell, even if it does feel better afterwards.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2012, 04:44:34 AM by JWIV »
K9
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Reply #816 on: October 16, 2012, 05:25:49 AM

Cool, thanks for the feedback. Does anyone have any tips on learning it other than just doing it? Also, do you aim to do sets for time, or to failure?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Mosesandstick
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Reply #817 on: October 16, 2012, 12:10:25 PM

As a warm up I usually do sets of a certain number of skips (unless I bung it up and mangle my toes). Alternate sets between two leg hops, hopping from leg to leg, front and back, left and right and that sort of thing. I tend to do it ad hoc. If I ever want to tire myself out I start doing double skips.
JWIV
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Reply #818 on: October 18, 2012, 02:25:10 PM

Since I don't have a particularly long race for awhile, I'm mixing things up and going to let my weekly mileage drop a little bit and start doing some heavy lifting again.  Even though I enjoyed my first go around with P90x, it's a little too much since I'm going to still be keeping a run schedule of some sort.  I went ahead and grabbed an Android app called jefit which seems to basically allow you to tie in nicely to a user driven site with a bunch of workouts. I went ahead and grabbed a beginner bulking one that looked at least somewhat fundamentally sound without the stupidity from whatever nonsense Men's Fitness is pushing this month.

So basically a standard 3 day split
today was Chest and Triceps

half a mile run (to the gym)
Bench Press 3x6
Barbell Incline Bench Press 3x6
Dumbbell Fly 3x8
Triceps Pushdown3x10
Dips 3x10
half a mile run home

Rest of the week

Back and Biceps
Deadlift  3x8
Bent over Rows 3x8
Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown 3x8
Dumbbell Bicep Curl 3x10
EZ-Bar Curl 3x10
Cable Crunch 2x15

Legs and Shoulders
Barbell Squat 3x8
Leg Press 3x8
Seated Calf Raise 3x12
Barbell Shrug 3x12
Barbell Shoulder Press 3x8

Any thoughts on this?  Things I may want to swap out, etc?


climbjtree
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Reply #819 on: October 18, 2012, 11:18:54 PM

Looks good. I might add in one more tricep exercise, and on legs/shoulders I like my calf raises tacked on to the end of my sets of squats. Also you might look at alternating standing shoulder press and push press.

But like I said, those are just ideas.
climbjtree
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Reply #820 on: October 19, 2012, 04:24:27 AM

Alright, I've made some big changes to my workout and I'd like to share 'em. I'm training up for a pretty intense assessment after this deployment, an this workout is very SOF oriented but I think there might be some of you who would enjoy it. It's certainly an interesting read anyway.

Quote
This program was designed as a way to build a solid operator base of fitness. We pulled material from these sources: Mark Twight (gymjones.com), Rob Shauls (mtnathlete.com), Greg Glassman (crossfit.com), Dan John (Google him) and Scott Ramsdell (athleticperformanceinc.biz). We combined the idea behind the Gym Jones 3 month operator fitness program, a lot of Mountain Athlete workouts, some Crossfit WOD and API workouts and turned them into a 4 month workout program that has numerous options each day so that you could use it for 2-3 rotations and not become bored with it.
Our goals specifically in making this program are to be able to DL 2.5x, Front Squat 1.5x, Bench 1.5x, Military Press 1x our BW and still be the cardio shape to run 3 miles easily in under 20:00. Also, we will have a score of at least 200 on the SSST. Whatever your individual goals are just tweak this program towards them in order to achieve them within 4 months.

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1za5J2MmFd9rPUCgJlah7GcVkcKz8fFs6OtXPmR4FbAs/edit
K9
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Reply #821 on: October 19, 2012, 08:54:22 AM

Since I don't have a particularly long race for awhile, I'm mixing things up and going to let my weekly mileage drop a little bit and start doing some heavy lifting again.  Even though I enjoyed my first go around with P90x, it's a little too much since I'm going to still be keeping a run schedule of some sort.  I went ahead and grabbed an Android app called jefit which seems to basically allow you to tie in nicely to a user driven site with a bunch of workouts. I went ahead and grabbed a beginner bulking one that looked at least somewhat fundamentally sound without the stupidity from whatever nonsense Men's Fitness is pushing this month.

So basically a standard 3 day split
today was Chest and Triceps

half a mile run (to the gym)
Bench Press 3x6
Barbell Incline Bench Press 3x6
Dumbbell Fly 3x8
Triceps Pushdown3x10
Dips 3x10
half a mile run home

Rest of the week

Back and Biceps
Deadlift  3x8
Bent over Rows 3x8
Wide-Grip Lat Pulldown 3x8
Dumbbell Bicep Curl 3x10
EZ-Bar Curl 3x10
Cable Crunch 2x15

Legs and Shoulders
Barbell Squat 3x8
Leg Press 3x8
Seated Calf Raise 3x12
Barbell Shrug 3x12
Barbell Shoulder Press 3x8

Any thoughts on this?  Things I may want to swap out, etc?

Looks decent enough, the only thing that raises an eyebrow for me is sticking in dips right at the end of your chest/tricep session. Dips are one of the most demanding exercises you can do, and I don't think they belong at the end of a workout. If you can do sets of 10 dips after everything else then you haven't been doing anywhere near enough work on your earlier lifts. If you're doing the earlier lifts seriously then you'd probably be failing through the dips. I'd be tempted to actually roll the dips into your shoulders day, since dips overlap with shoulders pretty much as much as they do with chest work. Alternatively (if you have a belt) ditch the incline bench and the triceps pushdowns and do weighted dips.

Shrugs aren't really a shoulder exercise despite the name, they're predominantly working your traps and rhomboids. I guess this depends on your definition of what shoulders are, but in my book they're a back exercise.

So I guess if I was designing this sort of plan I'd move dips to legs and shoulders day, move shrugs to back day and probably ditch the cable crunches or move them to leg day.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Nebu
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Reply #822 on: October 19, 2012, 10:33:35 AM

I disagree about the dips.  I often do sets of 10 dips after a workout as a way to shred any remaining muscle.  If I do them early, I either need to do weighted dips or do 30 of them (which is tedious) to get a good burn.  At the end, you're so spent that your body weight is more than sufficient to do the job. 

I love doing naturals at the end of my workouts.  It's a great way to fully crush the muscle group.

I do agree about shrugs.  I find them worthless for anything but vanity and helmet-wearing sports. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
JWIV
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Reply #823 on: October 19, 2012, 11:48:14 AM

For me, my arms were toasted enough by the end of the workout, that I ended up doing about 2 bw dips and then just switched over to an assist machine in order to finish off the sets.   Which isn't ideal obviously, but I've got a long ways to go in general anyhow with lifting.
K9
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Reply #824 on: October 19, 2012, 03:46:52 PM

Shrugs are good to give yourself a cushion behind your neck for jerks  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cyrrex
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Reply #825 on: October 21, 2012, 04:37:27 AM

Shrugs don't feel like a very natural movement to me...and when I think about it, it is probably because shrugging heavy weight is not something the human body should ever need to do and therefore was not designed to do it.  More to the point, though, I find that deads and rack deads rape my traps in a way that shrugs never could, so why bother?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Cyrrex
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Reply #826 on: October 22, 2012, 06:00:29 AM

I've decided that the NO explode stuff has more caffeine in it than I really want to be dealing with (sleep issues improved, but not gone completely), so I have temporarily switched to another blend of some Swedish shit that has half the caffeine.  Will probably just ultimately switch to a pure creatine solution, as I am willing to admit that my recent gains are due largely to a combination of the creatine, and maybe even some placebo effect.

But that said, the last 4 weeks have given me some shockingly good results:

- Tied my squat personal best (with better form than before).  Still a shitty 130 kgs (I don't think my body was designed for squatting, somehow), but I have no doubt I will push it higher.
- Set a new personal best for the flat bench.
- Destroyed my previous PB on the incline bench.  Maybe a 10 kg improvement or so.
- Tied my PB in the power clean/press, despite doing them immediately after wearing myself completely on deadlifts.
- Absolutely demolished my PB in deadlifts.  In reality, including clean locked-out lifts, I added 25 kg to my deadlifts in 5 weeks or so.  I managed to get 180kg cleanly off the ground yesterday (might have had enough in the tank for 185...).  Four plates per side! 

I have never looked or felt stronger, and I am a good 10 pounds below my usual bulking phase weight.  For all the lifts that matter to me, I have met or significantly exceeded my old records.  I am not even eating like a pig.  The only thing that has changed is the NO explode...again, willing to admit that it could be just the creatine, because I don't think I have ever ingested so much of it, nor so regularly.  Or the psychological factor.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nebu
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Reply #827 on: October 22, 2012, 07:34:22 AM

Creatine will help you gain weight, but much of it is water weight.  It has a tendency to hold water in muscle making them appear bigger. The fact that it supports both anaerobic ATP production and anabolic growth in muscle makes it a wonderful supplement for strength gains as well.  I try not to use it mostly because a) it adds work to the kidneys (if you're <35 that doesn't matter if you're healthy) and b) it generates plateaus that I find nearly impossibel to break through without continuing creatine supplementation.   

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Nebu
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Reply #828 on: October 31, 2012, 10:07:46 AM

Update: You got me taking creatine (500 mg/2x daily) again just to see the results.  Last time I used it was about 10 years ago.

Result: DAY-UM.  Muscles feel bigger, tighter, and stronger after just a week.  Added 10 lbs to military barbell presses and did 10 sets of 8 reps like it was nothing.  Chest doesn't seem to be responding as well, but it has only been 1 week. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Cyrrex
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Reply #829 on: November 01, 2012, 12:00:43 AM

I KNOW!

Another good thing about the creatine is that, if you are just taking it straight without all the bullshit, it can be had relatively cheaply.  I am pretty much taking it straight now, and will try to assess the difference I feel between the pure creatine and the mixed stuff like the Explode.


"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Reply #830 on: November 02, 2012, 08:28:45 AM

Gave the 1000 lb club a shot today made my entry at 1125 lbs. No bigs.  Rock on!

... but seriously I am pretty happy about it!
Salamok
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Posts: 2803


Reply #831 on: November 02, 2012, 09:07:16 AM

Gave the 1000 lb club a shot today made my entry at 1125 lbs. No bigs.  Rock on!

... but seriously I am pretty happy about it!

Congratz! What was your breakdown?
Nebu
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Posts: 17613


Reply #832 on: November 02, 2012, 09:48:37 AM

Impressive.  Well done.

If I squat more than 225, my knees will explode.  Fuck I hate getting old.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
JWIV
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Posts: 2392


Reply #833 on: November 02, 2012, 09:59:45 AM

Gave the 1000 lb club a shot today made my entry at 1125 lbs. No bigs.  Rock on!

... but seriously I am pretty happy about it!

Damn!  Really awesome work.
climbjtree
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Posts: 949


Reply #834 on: November 02, 2012, 10:47:32 AM

Thanks for the support guys!

315 for bench, 425 for squats, and 385 for dead lifts.

I have terrible form when it comes to dead lifts, and very rarely work on them because I hate them. Also don't care to hurt my back... but I'm starting to think I'm shorting myself by skipping over them.
JWIV
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Posts: 2392


Reply #835 on: November 02, 2012, 08:58:37 PM

apropos of nothing, but god do I need to remember to hide the scale when shifting from running 35-30 miles a week to lifting and strength training.   
Cyrrex
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Reply #836 on: November 04, 2012, 10:50:19 PM

Impressive.  Well done.

If I squat more than 225, my knees will explode.  Fuck I hate getting old.

Maybe this is why my body refuses to get better at squats, because I am getting too old?  I think you just ruined my day.

I failed my 185kg (just over 400lb) deadlift attempt over the weekend.  My back and legs were ready, but the grip in my left hand was not.  I'm not sure how to overcome that, as I want to avoid straps.  Will probably just have to hover here for a bit until my hands catch up.

Climbjtree:  Huge congrats, must feel nice.  I am trying to get to 1000 as well, but I have a feeling my terrible squats are going to keep me from getting there.  Got 65 pounds to go.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Posts: 949


Reply #837 on: November 15, 2012, 05:31:31 AM

Push pressed 205 lbs today, which is a new high for me. I have been doing a lot of squats and a lot of clean and press lately and I think that's what led improvements in push press.

I like to celebrate the incremental gains... if you wait to celebrate until after the big gains, you don't get to celebrate enough  awesome, for real
Cyrrex
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Reply #838 on: November 15, 2012, 05:46:54 AM

On that same token, I cleaned and pressed 95 kg (just about 210 lbs) the other day, which smashes my old Personal Best.  I have rarely been more thrilled with a single lift.  Not trying to one-up you or anything (you are probably plenty stronger than me on other lifts, and this is roughly the same weight anyway).  I might be able to do 100 kg if I weren't tiring myself out on deadlifts first...but to be honest, the bar starts to get pretty damn intimidating when you get up around here.  I don't have access to bumper plates, so I am always aware of the price of a failed lift somewhere in the back of my mind.  Afraid I am going to fall down, drop the weight on my head or neck, or otherwise just make and ass of myself.

And you should celebrate.  Putting 200 lbs over your head is a rare thing.

Earlier that same day, I managed a 200 kg trapbar deadlift.  There is something intense about lifting this heavy, especially when you succeed.  The adrenaline rush, and then dump of the same, is something I've rarely experienced before.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
climbjtree
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Posts: 949


Reply #839 on: November 15, 2012, 05:54:28 AM

I'm not sure of my max clean and press, but I usually do it as a sort of in-between exercise on legs/shoulders day. After several sets of 155 my wrists start to hurt in the same way that they do with front squats, so I have shied away from going much heavier. You motivate me though! Next time I'll give it a go, but I don't expect that I'll just put it up no problem.

There's no one upping here - this thread is a font of motivation!
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