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Author Topic: So. P90X anyone? (Misery loves company)  (Read 477238 times)
Cyrrex
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Reply #560 on: November 07, 2011, 10:19:06 PM

You should get into your head that the smith rack is just another machine....because, well, it is just another machine.  Other than having a bar that you put individual weights on, it has otherwise nothing in common with free barbell exercises.  It doesn't recruit your muscle fibers in the same way at all.  Some people argue that they use them because they are safer, but the real truth is that they use them because, like all machines, it makes them feel stronger than the actually are...the exercises are easier and you can put more weight on!  Win!

Do go investigate the deads and the squats when you get more comfortable.  Those are the two best exercises you can do, period.  The reasons your friends hate them is because they are hard as shit, and the squats in particular are psychologically challenging as well - make sure you do those inside a rack with safety bars setup.  And don't forget to go low...thighs parallel to the ground is what you are aiming for.  9 out of 10 people squat wrong.  Look them up on youtube or something and make sure you understand the form.  Same for deadlifts, really.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
NowhereMan
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Reply #561 on: November 08, 2011, 02:14:21 AM

Having spent about 3 months with work going crazy and not doing any exercise at all I'm getting back into running and lifting. I started out real low in the lifting but the numbers are starting to creep up again, I'm at least getting back to the point where I'm feeling somewhat worn out by the end of a session, my shoulder press numbers are pretty pathetic though. Doing my best to build them up a bit but they've always been very low. I'm not sure if it's technique or just me being wimpy about them but I find that set 3 or 22kg can leave me unable to finish, I literally can't get the bar up. Despite that I don't feel like it's muscle exhaustion or anything, it's like there's just one muscle group that's not pulling its weight. Like I said I suspect its primarily psychological but once I've done shedding a bit more fat I'm going to concentrate on eating a bit more and pushing myself harder with the lifts. The routine I'm following is one of the ones posted by SA goon Alfalfa that's a 4 day split 3 times a week. Lots of compound lifts and that sort of fun. My squat form still sucks although at least now I don't look like I'm performing good mornings, doing fairly light front squats at the moment in the hope that having the weight a bit forward will help stop me leaning too far forward for fear of falling over backwards.

"Look at my car. Do you think that was bought with the earnest love of geeks?" - HaemishM
Cyrrex
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Reply #562 on: November 08, 2011, 02:36:03 AM

You may just have an arm, or a specific muscle, that is weaker than the others.  Lots of work on the barbell will even that out to a degree, but I can tell you from my own experience that it may never be completely fixed.  Despite my best efforts, my right shoulder is noticeably stronger than my left.  The only reason I can't reach my mythical goal of the 40kg (per hand) dumbbell presses is because of my stupid ass left shoulder...it won't even let my put up 38kg, despite the fact that the right hand has no problem with complying.

Also, barbell presses are a bit awkward anyway, because you have to move your head out of the way.  Barbell is better for the Olympic moves, IMO...you might be happier trying seated dumbbell presses.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Sky
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Reply #563 on: November 08, 2011, 06:56:12 AM

Haven't thought about that, I should start doing some kindling splitting with my left hand to even out the single-arm part of my 'workout'  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?
DraconianOne
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Reply #564 on: November 09, 2011, 02:53:42 AM

I spent last night sorting out my next 16 weeks worth of training but it'll probably be not so interesting to you guys as doesn't inolve much weights: three (occasionally four) run sessions a week, two cross-training sessions and one or two strength/conditioning sessions.

Typical week will be along the lines of:

Mon: Rest
Tue: X-training on bike (15-20 miles commute)
Wed: 7-8 mile run at tempo (normally with my club so will be on trails, at night)
Thu: X-training (tabata intervals on stationary bike/rowing machine) + strength/conditioning
Fri: fast interval sessions covering 3 - 4 miles in total (things like 12x400m, 3x1600m or 5x1km)
Sat: Rest (or occasional Long run for back-to-back training)
Sun: Long run (12-25 miles) at slightly slower than marathon pace.

Ideally I want to fit in a second str/con session but not sure when.

It's all building up to an ultra at the beginning of March (100 miles from London to Oxford along the Thames Path). I've got two 30 mile events in Jan & Feb (both on the day after a cross-country league match so good back-to-back sessions) so I'll be maxing out at 40-45 miles a week all told.

That's the plan. Sticking to it is another matter!  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Cyrrex
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Reply #565 on: November 09, 2011, 03:17:18 AM

Of course we're interested.  Though I'll admit my interested is primarily centered on wondering why any human being would choose to run on a regular basis.  I mean, is someone chasing you?  I was good at it back in the day (US Army, and I always had run-happy sergeants) and could probably get pretty good at it again...but damn I hate it.  Good for you, though.

GVT update:  Did my Monday Chest and Shoulder session a couple of days ago.  Increased weights as intened (7.5 kg up on the bench, 2kg total on the shoulder presses).  Was a bitch, especially the bench presses.  It's amazing how relatively little weight can kick your ass.  Last few sets were a major struggle.  Got every rep up, but the last ones were not looking pretty.  Will probably up the bench another 2.5kg next week and add another 2kg to the shoulders.  I have a feelling that might get me to fail a lift or two.

Today is pull day.  Still not sure I have the right mix of exercises here.  Just not sure if I am hitting my lower back enough.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
DraconianOne
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Reply #566 on: November 09, 2011, 03:50:27 AM

Of course we're interested.  Though I'll admit my interested is primarily centered on wondering why any human being would choose to run on a regular basis.  I mean, is someone chasing you?  

Well, they're rarely chasing me because I'm normally at the back!  awesome, for real

As for why I do it? Easy! This is where I run:






This is a gym:



 why so serious?


(The first picture is one I took on a race at the end of July, at about 11am. The second picture I didn't take but was where I was at a few hours earlier at dawn. The race had started at 5pm the evening before. I pulled out later on though so didn't finish. Trying again next year. )

A point can be MOOT. MUTE is more along the lines of what you should be. - WayAbvPar
Cyrrex
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Reply #567 on: November 09, 2011, 04:39:17 AM

To be fair, the gym I used to work out (before I moved back to Denmark) was ginormous, and absolutely filled to the teeth with MILFs and extremely good looking college age girls.  Okay, some of them were probably high school age, but that didn't make me appreciate the scenery any less.   this guy looks legit

My current gym...not so much.  Unless you are into hairy guys that are allergic to deodorant.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
JWIV
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Reply #568 on: November 09, 2011, 05:29:54 AM

I don't love running, which is why the thought of upping my mileage into marathon levels makes me twitch (20-25 miles/week is about my limit).  That said, I'd go insane if I weren't running - there's something amazingly therapeutic about going out for an hour jog and just clearing your head.
Cyrrex
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Reply #569 on: November 09, 2011, 05:32:04 AM

Replace "running" with "going to the gym" and I feel the same way.  I'm addicted to it.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
K9
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Reply #570 on: November 09, 2011, 08:51:27 AM

I'm with Cyrrex, I can't stand running, although once I hit 30 I'll be forcing myself into it. I do love my gym though, but it's a different feeling. I'm cycling about 7-8 miles every day (commute and bits) so I feel I get enough of a cardio stretch as it is. I'm also playing American Football again, so that gives me another outlet.

DraconianOne, this is also a gym  why so serious?



Having spent about 3 months with work going crazy and not doing any exercise at all I'm getting back into running and lifting. I started out real low in the lifting but the numbers are starting to creep up again, I'm at least getting back to the point where I'm feeling somewhat worn out by the end of a session, my shoulder press numbers are pretty pathetic though. Doing my best to build them up a bit but they've always been very low. I'm not sure if it's technique or just me being wimpy about them but I find that set 3 or 22kg can leave me unable to finish, I literally can't get the bar up. Despite that I don't feel like it's muscle exhaustion or anything, it's like there's just one muscle group that's not pulling its weight. Like I said I suspect its primarily psychological but once I've done shedding a bit more fat I'm going to concentrate on eating a bit more and pushing myself harder with the lifts. The routine I'm following is one of the ones posted by SA goon Alfalfa that's a 4 day split 3 times a week. Lots of compound lifts and that sort of fun. My squat form still sucks although at least now I don't look like I'm performing good mornings, doing fairly light front squats at the moment in the hope that having the weight a bit forward will help stop me leaning too far forward for fear of falling over backwards.

Shoulder press is a tricky exercise, there are quite a lot of variables in it, moreso than most other exercises. I assume you are doing it with the bar, not dumbbells. Are you standing or sitting? If you sit do you have a backrest? In front of your head or behind? Are you doing a full range of motion or partial? Do you use leg drive or not?

At the very bottom end of a shoulder press you are invoking your traps more than pretty much any other muscle in your shoulder, and your shoulder joint and elbow are in a very disadvantaged position, so you may be limited by those more than your deltoids. If you are using the bar behind your head you should try to pull your shoulderblades together by tensing your rhomboids and then lean slightly forward.

You may want to try some tricep work too, since they can be a limiting factor in shoulder press.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
K9
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Reply #571 on: November 09, 2011, 09:03:46 AM

Sorry for double posting.

Thanks for replying. Quick follow up though:

However, I think you can achieve the same for less effort with more conventional training patterns.

Such as? What to you would be a conventional training pattern that gives comparable results?

(I should clarify that I'm asking because I'm interested in different viewpoints.)

It depends on your goals I guess, and what you define as CrossFit. If you go to a gym and simply do sets of squats, deadlifts, rows, chins, cleans, snatches, bench or whatever you are not really doing CrossFit in my mind, you are merely exercising in a CrossFit gym. To be doing CrossFit you need to be doing the WoDs, doing exercises to failure and using a mixture of unrelated exercises ostensibly for the purpose of tiring you out. Your goal is to be an all-rounder, and so you do a bit of everything. If you want to be strong I think doing something like 5/3/1, or even 5x5 will give you more consistent results, and there is no reason why you cannot do running or cycling or swimming at the same time, independently of your gym routines. I don't see the benefit of trying to do it all at once

Here is a list of WODs

Many of these seem dangerously unsafe to me. Exercises such as Snatches, Cleans even Squats should not be done in high-rep, high-tempo routines. These are exercises which are very form dependent, and encouraging people to do them at speed seems to me to be a recipe for injury.

Examples:

Grace - 135lb C+J x 30 (to time)
Isabel - 135lb Snatch x 30 (to time)
Amanda - 9,7,5 x MuscleUps and Snatches (to time).

There is no clear explanation for these exercises other than trying to push your body to a limit. And while that is fine at times, encouraging overtraining on a regular basis is detrimental, whereas a more measured system might not seem as dramatic, but would achieve the same benefits.

My caveat is that I haven't really done enough CrossFit to be entirely objective. I stuck with it (as best I could) for about 2 months a while back, and while I saw some improvements, I also lost out in other areas, and felt like a wreck after most trainings. Now I am sticking with a more paced regime and I am still seeing improvement, but I can go put in a day's work after a workout, or go out with friends.

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cyrrex
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Reply #572 on: November 09, 2011, 10:55:19 AM

For the record, I agree with everything K9 is saying on Crossfit.  Is probably good as a general all-around fitness plan, but there are more efficient ways to accomplish those goals (either separately or at the same time).  And timing some of those lifts, including the Olympic ones?  That is a back injury waiting to happen.  You have to take your time with those lifts, because bad form could ruin you for years.

I feel like a broken record at this point, but people are terrible at goal setting when it comes to training.  If you have tangible goals, it is way easier to develop a plan to achieve it.  And you should also study the methods for what you are trying to accomplish, because that's how you learn important things, like how you are sabotaging your own progress.  And I guarantee that if you haven't studied the methods, there is a good chance you are sabotaging yourself somehow.  Seriously...goals, goals, goals.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nebu
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Reply #573 on: November 09, 2011, 01:13:48 PM

I have three simple rules when it comes to lifting:

1) High intensity, short workouts are best.

2) Focus on working large muscle groups rather than small.

3) You get zero growth without proper rest and nutrition.

I also hate running.  If I could find a replacement that gave me the same result to my aerobic capacity and core strength, I'd never run again.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
K9
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Reply #574 on: November 09, 2011, 02:19:51 PM

Skipping?

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NowhereMan
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Reply #575 on: November 11, 2011, 06:23:13 AM

K9 thanks for the input on the sholder press. I've been doing them with a barbell military press style, I think it's partly psychological and partly form related. Although weak triceps could well be a possibility, it's something I'm working on Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Form is an issue with some of these things though, doing incline dumbell presses the other day and found I got to 22kg (I'll use big boy weights one of these days) and I just couldn't lift it on the right side at all, despite the fact that last session with them I was going to up the reps cause it wasn't too hard. I moved the weights down and found I couldn't then do the warm up weights I'd just done a set of either because I'd just loss the necessary tightness and couldn't seem to figure out how to get myself into the right position.

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Minvaren
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Reply #576 on: November 11, 2011, 10:07:20 AM

I also hate running.  If I could find a replacement that gave me the same result to my aerobic capacity and core strength, I'd never run again.

Dunno if it's a complete replacement for running, but during the few years I did Kundalini Yoga, I had a massive increase to core strength and a substantial increase to lung capacity and endurance.  YMMV, some restrictions apply, void where prohibited.

"There are many things of which a wise man might wish to remain ignorant." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
Selby
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Reply #577 on: November 11, 2011, 07:51:23 PM

I also hate running.  If I could find a replacement that gave me the same result to my aerobic capacity and core strength, I'd never run again.
High intensity stationary bike riding is what I do (while playing video games naturally ;-) ).  I can't stand running due to boredom and my knees and back can't handle the impact it gives.  I feel much better and stronger after years on the bike than I did running 20 miles a week (I bike 13.5 miles a day 5-6 days a week).  I'm sure running would probably be a better thing to do, but my genetics pretty much guarantee that I can't do serious running (my dad has the same problems but worse due to age) so I do what I can to make up for it.
Nebu
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Reply #578 on: November 11, 2011, 09:27:35 PM

High intensity stationary bike riding is what I do (while playing video games naturally ;-) ). 

I don't understand.  When I do a high intensity workout, I'm ready to puke... and sometimes do.  How can you do high intensity stationary bike AND play a video game?  I don't see the two as compatible at all.  Not to be critical, but I'd go so far as to argue that if you can concentrate on a video game, your intensity isn't nearly high enough. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Yoru
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Reply #579 on: November 12, 2011, 05:10:02 AM

High intensity stationary bike riding is what I do (while playing video games naturally ;-) ). 

I don't understand.  When I do a high intensity workout, I'm ready to puke... and sometimes do.  How can you do high intensity stationary bike AND play a video game?  I don't see the two as compatible at all.  Not to be critical, but I'd go so far as to argue that if you can concentrate on a video game, your intensity isn't nearly high enough. 

This. I lift weights to get my mind off stuff. I can go to the gym with my head stewing in whatever the latest office bullshit is and as soon as I've finished the warmup, the bar starts coming down and it goes something like...

"Man I really wish I could fix--" (unrack) "FUCK FUCK FUCK THIS IS HEAVY OH GOD PUSH PUSH JESUS FOR THE LOVE OF FUCK GO UP OKAY IT'S MOVING OKAY OKAY PHEW" and then do that for 3-4 more reps and rack.

If you can think about anything that isn't directly related to your workout ("SHIT MY ARM IS SLIPPING BETTER SAY SPOT") while you're working out, dial it the fuck up.
Selby
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Reply #580 on: November 12, 2011, 03:32:08 PM

I don't understand.  When I do a high intensity workout, I'm ready to puke... and sometimes do.  How can you do high intensity stationary bike AND play a video game?  I don't see the two as compatible at all.  Not to be critical, but I'd go so far as to argue that if you can concentrate on a video game, your intensity isn't nearly high enough. 
Brain dead grinding of monsters (think old-school RPG enter commands and watch outcome stuff).  We're not talking twitch games or anything that requires thought.  When I'm done I tend to want to puke or pass out too and my legs are killing me.  It wasn't done overnight, I worked up to where I am over the better part of 2-3 years.
Nebu
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Reply #581 on: November 13, 2011, 06:12:22 AM

Brain dead grinding of monsters (think old-school RPG enter commands and watch outcome stuff).  We're not talking twitch games or anything that requires thought.  When I'm done I tend to want to puke or pass out too and my legs are killing me.  It wasn't done overnight, I worked up to where I am over the better part of 2-3 years.

I still don't understand how you can ride a bike, particularly a stationary bike, at high intensity without using your upper body.  That's like doing a time trial without using your arms.  You need your upper body to maintain speed and momentum.  If you're only using your legs, you're leaving half the workout on the table.  When I'd do spinning or riding my road bike on rollers, I'd get going to a point that I could barely hear the music in my iPod.  I can't imagine focusing on anything else but my cadence... and the pain. 

If it's working for you, that's all that matters.  I'm just saying that a trainer would scream at you if they thought you had the ability to do anything but cry while doing a high intensity workout. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Selby
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Reply #582 on: November 13, 2011, 09:46:10 AM

If it's working for you, that's all that matters.  I'm just saying that a trainer would scream at you if they thought you had the ability to do anything but cry while doing a high intensity workout. 
It works for me.  Like I said, bad back extremely limits the upper body work I can do.  I know a trainer would think I'm being lazy, but that's their job ;-)
Nebu
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Reply #583 on: November 13, 2011, 10:07:29 AM

I didn't mean to be an asshole, Selby.  If you have back problems, then you're doing the best that you can.  Just being on the bike is better than most people would do in your situation. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Selby
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Reply #584 on: November 13, 2011, 10:48:52 AM

Just being on the bike is better than most people would do in your situation. 
Tell me about it!  My doctor said I was going to be heading to health problems due to my desk job and weight issues combined with medication I take making it worse.  So I got a stationary bike and ride it intensely (high resistance) for 5-6 days a week for an hour and have been doing that for 4-5 years now.  My doctor practically doesn't ask any weight, etc questions because it's now obvious I'm taking care of it.  Down to 195 from 295 and I have so much energy it's not even funny!
Jimbo
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Reply #585 on: November 13, 2011, 06:41:23 PM

I do it too, I get the exercise bike out and play xbox 360, although some games I spaz and try and pedal faster to make my character run faster (CoD MW), but most of the RPG's I could ride and get a sweat and do some tasks that they want done.  I've read of someone that took a recumbent bicycle, put a small table and keyboard, and played WoW from 0-80 and lost a ton of weight.  I can't stand the recumbent though, it doesn't feel right, too many years in the upright makes it hard to do it the other way.  They have made some games where how fast you peddle the bike is how fast your character will go, another way is it helps power the game or controls the on off, like it will pause or shut down if you aren't peddling fast enough.
NowhereMan
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Reply #586 on: November 14, 2011, 12:32:52 PM

I can't imagine doing it with a high intensity workout either but I could easily see someone cycling just hard enough to work up a sweat and being able to play WoW and losing a tonne of weight due to throwing an extra hour or two of cardio into their daily routines. Now they probably could be doing far better for themselves and losing that weight far more efficiently but frankly considering the state of most people that spend a huge amount of time on WoW (or television or almost anything nowadays) fuck that, they're doing good. I think there's definitely a need to push oneself to improve in terms of lifting or cardio but really, if you're consistently doing some exercise everyday and it's working for you you're doing better than 80% of the western world.

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ffc
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Reply #587 on: November 26, 2011, 10:34:33 PM

Anybody try what I guess is called suspension weight training for strengthening core and/or building muscle?  

Over Thanksgiving I got to try out a TRX unit (pretty sure it's this one) which is just a set of tie downs with a handle attached to each end. But the TRX tie downs must be made from unicorn blood and fairy tears to justify its price.

My current core exercises are just planks and mountain climbers so I like this suspension weight idea because every exercise seemed to engage my core (basic pushups with my arms in the handles had my arms shaking like crazy, and if my feet were in the handles then my middle got sore) but at the same time I felt like using it for other exercises like curls or tricep pushdowns turns it into all-or-nothing where I was either using too much or too little of my body weight with no sweet spot even after fiddling with height adjustments.  I'll readily accept my problem is user error though.  

The person who owned the unit swore it could replace all dumbbells while strengthening my core in fewer exercises.  This same person could do a crazy looking iron cross move, pulling up from a near horizontal position up to vertical, so something must be working.  Any thoughts before I throw together a set of my own?
Jimbo
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Reply #588 on: November 27, 2011, 05:21:59 AM

Skyrim has lots of dead time so being on an exercise bike or even maybe a stair type would work, especially on RPG's for the Xbox 360, then again I'm good at multi tasking, straight up computer gaming seems so one sided, it makes me want to do a "one for one" trade off of exercise for computer gaming.

JWIV
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Reply #589 on: November 27, 2011, 06:22:18 AM

Anybody try what I guess is called suspension weight training for strengthening core and/or building muscle?  

Over Thanksgiving I got to try out a TRX unit (pretty sure it's this one) which is just a set of tie downs with a handle attached to each end. But the TRX tie downs must be made from unicorn blood and fairy tears to justify its price.

My current core exercises are just planks and mountain climbers so I like this suspension weight idea because every exercise seemed to engage my core (basic pushups with my arms in the handles had my arms shaking like crazy, and if my feet were in the handles then my middle got sore) but at the same time I felt like using it for other exercises like curls or tricep pushdowns turns it into all-or-nothing where I was either using too much or too little of my body weight with no sweet spot even after fiddling with height adjustments.  I'll readily accept my problem is user error though.  

The person who owned the unit swore it could replace all dumbbells while strengthening my core in fewer exercises.  This same person could do a crazy looking iron cross move, pulling up from a near horizontal position up to vertical, so something must be working.  Any thoughts before I throw together a set of my own?

I play around a little bit with the TRX stuff - it definitely hits you differently, because you're having to do a lot of support and stability, especially in the core.   Getting the body weight/angle stuff for some of the exercises can be a complete pain in the ass.

My general feeling is that I'm glad my local gym has a set, so I can mix it into my exercise rotation, but I wouldn't rush out and buy one. 
K9
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Reply #590 on: November 27, 2011, 09:37:36 AM

I'd probably save yourself $160 and just get some gymnastic rings. Lets you get the same effect pretty much I think?

I love the smell of facepalm in the morning
Cyrrex
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Reply #591 on: November 27, 2011, 10:25:41 PM

Hell, why not just buy a pommel horse?  Pretty sure it works arms, upper body and core!  And let's be honest, it looks fairly bad-ass.

Here's my thoughts on iron cross guy:  He was probably already hella strong in terms of strength-to-weight ratio.  These doohickeys didn't get him there, though maybe they help maintain it.

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
JWIV
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Reply #592 on: November 29, 2011, 06:23:46 AM

Talking of programs and the like - anyone done Stronglifts 5x5? http://stronglifts.com/stronglifts-5x5-beginner-strength-training-program/ 
Cyrrex
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Reply #593 on: November 29, 2011, 11:16:06 PM

I have done Madcow's variant of the 5x5, which works similarly to Stronglifts...minus the hyperbole and irritating sales pitch.  Jesus Christ, that link makes me want to stab my own face  awesome, for real

The bullshit:  5x5s are NOT the only way to build muscle, and it is NOT all about how heavy you lift....unless you are a power lifter.  Body building uses completely different, but valid concepts.  It is fair enough to say that a good body building program would benefit using a 5x5 as a foundational program, but they practically state that the 5x5 power lifting program is the only way to go.  That's just wrong.  They also imply that muscle confusion is not an important factor in training, and that, too, is misleading.  All training programs, including this one, will get you to a plateau...and you need to change things up if you ever want any hope of breaking through that.

That truth:  All the hyperbole and bullshit aside, 5x5s are REALLY good way to build strength and put on mass, particularly if you're a relative beginner.  Eat like a monster and use their spreadsheets to ensure constant progression, and you will achieve results.  I will be going back to a 5x5 as soon as I am done with Nebu's God-Forsaken horrible German Volume Training program (seriously, fuck Germans*).  I like the Madcow variant better, mostly because it adds in more deadlifts, and it also had me throw in pull-ups for better lat work.  It is critical that you make sure you are either working out with a spotter or are using a power rack with safety pins.  This is a whole different kind of muscle failure...where before you were worried about looking like a dork because you couldn't quite get that last rep of 135 up, with this program the muscle failure might lead to a crushed windpipe or a serious back injury.  Don't fuck around with it....spotter or rack.  If you don't have these things, you will not be able to follow the plan.

*The only reason I am dissing the GVT program is because it is so goddamn hard.  On body, mind and ego.  I have managed to increase weight every week for every lift, but holy shit am I tired.  I just want it to end.  I am in week number 5 now, and the prospect of doing pull day today is really wearing on my mind.  Just the thought of doing 95kg pull downs a hundred times makes me want to curl up into a ball and cry like a bitch.  And then to follow that up with Pendlays and seated rows....I may have to quit the program today.  I mean, I've done the minimum four weeks, so I am entitled, right?  RIGHT?  I am trying to convince myself that I have hyperextended my knee a little (and I may actually have) so that there is no way that I can do squats on Friday, so I might as well stop now.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly?

"...maybe if you cleaned the piss out of the sunny d bottles under your desks and returned em, you could upgrade you vid cards, fucken lusers.." - Grunk
Nebu
Terracotta Army
Posts: 17613


Reply #594 on: November 30, 2011, 11:00:16 AM

I will be going back to a 5x5 as soon as I am done with Nebu's God-Forsaken horrible German Volume Training program (seriously, fuck Germans*). 

I hate GVT as well.  I totally do.  The sad truth is that it works.  Not only does it work, it works when other routines don't.  That's the other reason that I hate it so.

My advice: Stick to it for 6 weeks if you can.  After that, it's tough to get significant gains anyway. 

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
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