The Fun of the Mundane

[stray]

I could have put this in general Gaming section, but maybe it fits better here.

Anyways, the thread title is referring to making "games" out of the mundane. I'm not a developer, so really, this is just a silly morning request for any developer reading this to consider it more often.

I'd like to thank coffee for this thread btw.

Most of the time, the games we play are either bare bones puzzles or based around fantasy (and by fantasy, I mean just about anything that the average person - in many cases, no person - is ever going to do). Why is that? Why is the act of "gaming" generally centered around being an outlet for fantasy? Is gaming equivalent to wanting to live out one's dreams of being a Navy SEAL, or fighting a dragon, sacking a Lithuanian town with an army of cossacks, or doing a triple back flip gun-kata move on some Nazi Zombie Super Soldier's head? I, for one, would like to see more games based around, say.. Meeting people at a party, Feng Shui, surviving a flood, getting someone fired, running a catering business..

And why, when some activity that is mundane is included in a game, it's usually more sim like than it is game like? It's like all of the principals of making a game out of a "thing" are thrown out the window and the actions are taken more "literally" (sometimes not even that.. sometimes it's just pointless clicking, like most crafting actions in MMO's.. or the Sims in general). You get a life simulation instead of a game.

I believe you can abstract a game out of anything -- just like you can abstract zany comic strip humor out of anything (Dilbert, for example)... Yet, I take a look through the game store, and I see nothing but fucking Ogres, Space Armadas, Thug Life, Bald Headed Space Marines, Barbies, Ponies, and godly Skateboarders.  So what gives? Is gaming really synonymous with fantasizing?

[IainC]

This is freaky, I have been composing a post in my head for the past few days about games that aren't about killing stuff - specifically how you might do an MMO for adults that didn't have combat as it's primary focus and, just as I come to the forums to try and put it together I find this. Odd.

Anyhow. I think gaming for the mainstream at least is about living vicariously through aids to our imagination. Games are a socially acceptable way for us to let out inner Walter Mitty out, in ways that aren't always satisfied by more passive genres such as movies or books.

In some cases people's escape isn't much of a stretch; the biggest fan I know of Microsoft Train Simulator is actually a train driver in real life.

[Yegolev]

I suppose I can contribute a bit.  I like shooting zombies as much as anyone, but there is definitely a lack of games where you do other things.  It would be cool if Dave Rickey dropped by to give us some thoughts, but unfortunately you have me for now.

I, of course, have a few game designs floating around the interior my head which are awaiting the day I stop sucking at C# just enough that I can produce something almost as visually appealing as Dwarf Fortress.  One of these, while not devoid of combat necessarily, would have you assembling things.  I played a lot of Atelier Iris and Mana Khemia and I love the alchemy parts, but I'm bothered a bit by the combat cockblock.  Yea, I have to fight my way into new areas to get new materials but Mana Khemia (like most JP games) is way too obvious in tollgating me through the recipes.  I'm considering something more open in that building things will grant access to new materials or devices or plans.  In the end, I think it will fit what Stray is talking about since the game would be primarily about building things.  Some things may be just cool gizmos while others would allow access to new regions via a world-consistent method; making a cutting torch would allow you to cut through steel bulkheads, for example.

Of course, I love building things so maybe I would also be living out a fantasy.  I suspect Iain's friend plays Train Simulator because he can do things in it that he cannot in real life... or maybe he's just nuts for trains.  My wife plays The Sims because it's a massive dollhouse: she does have a real house to work on, but it's simply not feasible to repaint/rearrange/rebuild it all the time.

Finally, I see a lot of great games that fit the bill here except they also have a combat element.  This paragraph managed to turn into a list.

Persona, has a great game outside the combat, and so does Atelier Iris.  The "trouble" here is that the combat and non-combat games are intertwined.

Dwarf Fortress has a great game without considering the combat also (which is possible in certain circumstances but I think you're going to be attacked eventually), and I suppose if you ignore the idea that the icons are dwarves you might have a fairly good game made of mundane elements such as woodcutting, fishing, stoneworking, and starving to death.

Animal Crossing does not have combat, not even ATITD-style high school PVP, and is all about completing collections and being stung by bees.  There might be some epeen contests, assuming you can either turn on your Wii without your friends fleeing the scene or can decipher how to work the Friend Code bullshit.

Lost in Blue, I cannot remember if it has combat or not but it certainly consists of mundane tasks.  Check the ground and you use your DS stylus to sweep grass or sand away; shake a tree and hope you get a coconut.  You versus the environment puzzles... and that useless bitch back in the cave.

Prof. Layton does not involve combat, but it certainly makes me want to choke a bitch.

I would like to take elements from these noncombat game and construct something unique, and without it being a minigame collection.

[Krakrok]

The type of games you are talking about are readily available as flash games. They are just not available as $50 boxes in stores. There are hotel/resort management games, cooking games, tower building (construction) games, and even paper doll dress up games. Dress up games are actually HUGE right now but there isn't really a "game" element to most of them. The hotel management game ("Jane's Hotel: Family Hero") was one of the top played flash games in 2008. "Papa's Pizzeria" a restaurant simulation (I assume) was another top played game and "Tower Bloxx" (a construction game) was a third. There is even a Yard Sale game where you rummage around and find junk (not a flash game so it has a $19.99 price tag).

The question is, is there enough of a game there to warrant a $50 box?

Edit: The newest one is Resort Online. A flash game that up sells to a download.

[stray]

You could probably get away with a $30 box if you stepped up a notch with presentation. Most of the sim/tycoon games sell for that, I think?

[IainC]

You could probably get away with a $30 box if you stepped up a notch with presentation. Most of the sim/tycoon games sell for that, I think?

I'm talking about a character based, persistant multiplayer setting with an actual game component rather than a godsim or Puzzle Pirates.

[stray]

Oh sure yeah.. I'm just saying that ideas like the ones Krakrok pointed out above could probably sell for around that price, depending on how they were presented. His suspicion is that there isn't enough game in them to justify retail packaging.. but yet, it's not like that many games that are given that level of circulation are any more complex either. They're just presented that way.

[Yegolev]

The question is, is there enough of a game there to warrant a $50 box?

This is the issue, isn't it?  That the gameplay isn't enough to hook a player into paying $50, or perhaps simply the perception rather than the quantity/quality of gameplay.  Those flash games don't sound like something I would like to play, but not because they are flash-based.

I'm talking about a character based, persistant multiplayer setting with an actual game component rather than a godsim or Puzzle Pirates.

I'd like to think my idea would work as a persistent-world game, but I don't think I could program that.

[stray]

There was a game I heard about years back.. a Japanese only title, I think.. Where your character was depressed and on the brink of suicide, and the goal of the game was to improve his life to where he was safe from harming himself. Anyone know what that was? I'm not sure how it played out, but apparently, you had to do things from cleaning his house up to improving his social and work situation.

[Salamok]

give drug wars a gui and make it an mmo

[schild]

give drug wars a gui and make it an mmo

http://www.treadon.us/

ok

now wat

[stray]

It's funny how some people try to be all hardcore with their "profile gifs" and shit about growing weed. Man that ain't fucking "dope wars" wtf is that?

edit: Yes, I'm derailing. Sorry.

[Krakrok]

Here is another one which is in the same vein. It's basically a car repair and resale sim.

Fix-it-up: Kate`s Adventure
http://www.bigfishgames.com/download-games/4511/fixitup-kates-adventure/index.html

[Yegolev]

There was a game I heard about years back.. a Japanese only title, I think.. Where your character was depressed and on the brink of suicide, and the goal of the game was to improve his life to where he was safe from harming himself. Anyone know what that was? I'm not sure how it played out, but apparently, you had to do things from cleaning his house up to improving his social and work situation.

These games all sound non-awesome.  I think I'd get more out of helping a real suicide case.  I'm even afraid to try one out for fear of losing my fingertips due to massive sucking.

[Pennilenko]

How about a persistant world with private instances you can invite people to. Instead of some language you have to learn to design your space or spaces or games in your spaces, you have legos.

[Samwise]

You mean like that Brickworld game, or Roblox, or Second Life?

[Yegolev]

Dude, don't say Second Life.

[schild]

Roommania.

(This was the game Stray was talking about btw)

[stray]

Was it ever released, even in Japan? I can't seem to find that info.

[schild]

Was it ever released, even in Japan? I can't seem to find that info.

It was because I somehow downloaded it and played it. Also, the goal of it wasn't to keep him from suicide. It was just to make him useful in some manner rather than a useless shut-in.



It's really not very good, but it is Very Interesting. There's some youtube videos of it afaik.

[stray]

Ah, well shit.. maybe someone should make a game about suicide prevention anyhow. 

[UnSub]

Ah, well shit.. maybe someone should make a game about suicide prevention anyhow. 

But what happens if you suck at it? "Oh damn, another dead, this time by electrocution. Knew I should have gotten rid of the hairdryer..." 

[Yegolev]

Ah, well shit.. maybe someone should make a game about suicide prevention anyhow. 

But what happens if you suck at it? "Oh damn, another dead, this time by electrocution. Knew I should have gotten rid of the hairdryer..." 

Achievement system.