WOTLK raid progression.

[Koyasha]

Can't really cross too fast because of the mechanic of how Polarity Shift works.  When he finishes casting it, you receive the + or - debuff, and you have a few seconds (3-5, I'm not sure exactly) to move before it kicks in.  During that 3-5 second window, nobody takes damage from polarity shift no matter who they're next to.  They also don't get the stacking damage increase.

As long as everyone near you is the correct polarity when the 3-5 second "arming" period is over, you won't take or cause damage.  Therefore, the only way you could have done damage if you were across within that time, would be if you were either crossing when your charge hadn't changed, or if someone else wasn't where they should be.

[Azaroth]

Nevermind. The raid leader (Paladin tank) was bitching at me because he didn't know what fucking seal of the martyr is.

[Montague]

Nevermind. The raid leader (Paladin tank) was bitching at me because he didn't know what fucking seal of the martyr is.

 

[Draegan]

I left my guild since we can't get a 25 man together, and when we do it's with bugs and we wipe on patchwork all night.

Meh.

So instead of doing a recruiting drive, you quit?  I'm not sure I understand. 

I've played with the same guild for 3.5 years since WoW launched.  Do people guildhop that much?

I played with the same group of people for 2 years in WOW.  When I came back they were all gone (See my thread on how finding a guild is tough).  My buddy joined this guild and I followed.  I didn't know anyone and seeing how they were playing the game, no one showing up for raids, how they performed in game I felt like I couldn't go any further with them.  I didn't owe them anything.  I was sitting in a raid group for an hour and a half after a raid start waiting for people to come on.

It was irritating.  I don't want to guild hop either, I'd like to find a nice group of people to play but it really wasn't worth it to stick around.

[Paelos]

We had a horrible run in Naxx 10 last night because we kept having issues on Sapphiron. We're carrying 3 healers, shaman, priest, pally, and myself as the tank with full heroic and 10 man tanking epics so far. I'm over def cap, and carrying about 36k health buffed, but I'm still getting nailed for 8k+ hits at times. This wouldn't be a problem, except that the blizzards seem to always find people when they are behind an iceblock and it kills them. We killed him once before, but for some reason this time the blizzards just seemed to be worse.

Do yall have any particular tips or tricks yall use to minimize the random factor of the event? Currently we use the strategy of spreading everyone out on one side of the dragon, and AE healing the melee and ranged.

[Azaroth]

The iceblock is just buggy. We've had it totally bug out and only give us one iceblock twice during a fight.

[Tairnyn]

We have our groups split to the left and right with a healer and decurser on each side. This provides less player density for blizzards. When Sapphiron takes flight we all shift to the west side of the room near the entrace, spread out enough to avoid AE but close enough for everyone to be within range of an iceblock on any one player. Once he lands the tank picks him up and we return to our sides. With all the movement everyone needs be be very aware of huge cleaves and avoid being anywhere near the front or inside of Sapphiron.

[Gobbeldygook]

The iceblock is just buggy. We've had it totally bug out and only give us one iceblock twice during a fight.

If the ice bolt kills the target, it doesn't create an ice block.  I don't believe that's a 'bug' so much as 'heal moar'.  Or are you encountering something else?

This wouldn't be a problem, except that the blizzards seem to always find people when they are behind an iceblock and it kills them.

1. Boom phases are 30 seconds, you've got a lot of slack on how long you can run around to ice blocks.  If the first block has a chill on it, just watch for the second and get over there.
2. If a chill lands on top of you behind the ice block, it's no problem as long as the healers aren't all iceblocked.  It's not unhealable at all, just spam COH/chain heal/don't paladins get some ghetto AOE heal with a really small radius?/ and you'll be fine.
3. You also don't need to form a tight stack of DOOOM behind the block; I experimented with it some and found you can move back from the block some to dodge a chill without risk (note: Only applies when the blocks are out of melee range of the boss; those inside melee range of sapphiron are total crap shoots with regard to protecting you).
4. Tell the melee it's OK to jump to the other side of sapph for a time to dodge a chill and to also remember that sapphiron's hit box is the size of a small moon; I'd conservatively say you can be at least 10 yards away from sapph's center and still melee him.

[proudft]

If the ice bolt kills the target, it doesn't create an ice block.  I don't believe that's a 'bug' so much as 'heal moar'. 

Yeah, on our first (and thus far only) trip in there, one of the two iceblock targets was instantly killed by the thing.  Poor priest.  Just need more health or frost resistance I guess.

The other target was me, the rogue, who had dutifully followed instructions to "spread out when the dragon takes off" and sprinted way the hell to the other side of the cave.  Oops.   So I lived through the breath, but got to watch everyone vainly run towards me to hide behind the block and get mowed down en masse by the dragon.   Good times.

[Azaroth]

The iceblock is just buggy. We've had it totally bug out and only give us one iceblock twice during a fight.

If the ice bolt kills the target, it doesn't create an ice block.  I don't believe that's a 'bug' so much as 'heal moar'.  Or are you encountering something else?

This wouldn't be a problem, except that the blizzards seem to always find people when they are behind an iceblock and it kills them.

Indeed. Such as 10 people being alive and Sapphiron only iceblocking one person.

[Sjofn]

If the ice bolt kills the target, it doesn't create an ice block.  I don't believe that's a 'bug' so much as 'heal moar'. 

Yeah, on our first (and thus far only) trip in there, one of the two iceblock targets was instantly killed by the thing.  Poor priest.  Just need more health or frost resistance I guess.

The other target was me, the rogue, who had dutifully followed instructions to "spread out when the dragon takes off" and sprinted way the hell to the other side of the cave.  Oops.   So I lived through the breath, but got to watch everyone vainly run towards me to hide behind the block and get mowed down en masse by the dragon.   Good times.

The directions were actually, "spread out when the dragon takes off BUT NOT TOO FAR."

OMG U NEVER LISTEN

[Fordel]

It's a proven fact our guild is terrible at judging distances. See any 5 foot jump in game.

[proudft]

That jumping puzzle in Blackfathom Deeps is SRS BUSINESS.

[w00key]

Don't split up on 10 man, the standard melee vs ranged split will take care of most things. It sounds like a classic case of not enough heals, make sure your healers understand strength and use their cheat skill here: priests POM every cooldown, druids WG the melee, shaman can chain heal everything and paladins are the best tank healers in game. Most of them require players to be close, so just stick together in packs of 5 (or up to 10 in 25), it's safer that way.

Try to keep everyone on full health, the ice bolt doesn't hit for more than 10k, most players will have 10-15k left after that. You need the buffer to avoid deaths on mistakes like standing in the blizzard, because people will do it no matter what you tell them

@ Melee ice blocks: yup. We figured it out the hard way - a quarter of our raid got killed when some stupid guy wanted to a bit more damage in the air phase and stayed in melee range. Avoid ice blocks inside the big grey circle.

[kildorn]

It's a proven fact our guild is terrible at judging distances. See any 5 foot jump in game.

But amazing at barely beating encounters we have no right beating <3

  at imp death being the last man standing.

[Fordel]

I actually checked the logs, like 3 people were still technically alive when Sarth died, then they all died to like, DoTs or whatever. 

[bhodi]

One thing that isn't really mentioned is that there is a large damage aoe around whoever gets iceblocked - that's why you spread out. You also don't run for the iceblocks until DBM says 'he takes a deep breath' - this is because while running, everyone is clumped together and if someone gets hit by that second iceblock, it can take out two or three people. We even had half the raid hiding behind the iceblock when someone got hit next to us and killed us all.

[w00key]

Yay. Trying Malygos 25 again. Hit the Malygos P2 Lag bug and wiped all the time kinda sucks.

For what it's worth, closing the WoW client entirely seems to clear up the P2 issues. About half our raid had the same problem last night; one-shotted him after we had everyone who was having cast issues shut the client down and come back in from scratch.

Didn't test it yet, but if it works, it's the first encounter in WoW requiring a Logoffski to beat

[Paelos]

Bend over, because the healer situation is going to get worse.

Now, one thing you need to remember is that the current raid content is undertuned on purpose. It's easy. We wanted a lot of players to see Naxxramas and not to hit a brick wall when they tried to graduate from heroics to raiding. But you need fewer healers for easier content and swapping in more dps can just speed up the whole run. (Naxx can be done pretty quickly, but it's not Karazhan).

Ulduar will be more difficult and bringing more healers will be the norm. The only downside is it will shine a harsher on light on any class imbalance and players will become more concerned about not getting a spot.

[Ratman_tf]

Bend over, because the healer situation is going to get worse.

Now, one thing you need to remember is that the current raid content is undertuned on purpose. It's easy. We wanted a lot of players to see Naxxramas and not to hit a brick wall when they tried to graduate from heroics to raiding. But you need fewer healers for easier content and swapping in more dps can just speed up the whole run. (Naxx can be done pretty quickly, but it's not Karazhan).

Ulduar will be more difficult and bringing more healers will be the norm. The only downside is it will shine a harsher on light on any class imbalance and players will become more concerned about not getting a spot.

Barf. That sounds poopsocky.

[Azaroth]

I don't get it. Most groups already need 3/10 of the raid to be healers for 10 man Naxx already.

It can be done with two, but that requires healers who are actually good.

So, what. Ulduar will require 3-4 healers who are actually good, and 4-5 healers for most groups?

Sounds AWESOME.

By the time we're raiding Icecrown Citadel, you'll need 9 healers and a tank.

Pro Tip: ALWAYS take priests for SW:P.

[Phred]

Don't split up on 10 man, the standard melee vs ranged split will take care of most things. It sounds like a classic case of not enough heals, make sure your healers understand strength and use their cheat skill here: priests POM every cooldown, druids WG the melee, shaman can chain heal everything and paladins are the best tank healers in game. Most of them require players to be close, so just stick together in packs of 5 (or up to 10 in 25), it's safer that way.

Try to keep everyone on full health, the ice bolt doesn't hit for more than 10k, most players will have 10-15k left after that. You need the buffer to avoid deaths on mistakes like standing in the blizzard, because people will do it no matter what you tell them

@ Melee ice blocks: yup. We figured it out the hard way - a quarter of our raid got killed when some stupid guy wanted to a bit more damage in the air phase and stayed in melee range. Avoid ice blocks inside the big grey circle.

Not only that, we found melee had to turn autoattack off or drop the dragon as target or they would get pasted dispite being behind an ice block. However, you can be behind the ice block about 10 ft away from it as long as it's between you and the ice meteor he casts so there is some wiggle room for getting out of blizzards.

We have everyone spread out until he takes off then run up close to the blue circle on the floor where we fight him. That insures that everyone can make it to an iceblock. Haven't done it on 25 man yet though. Is this strat gonna get too crowded?

[K9]

You're forgetting that dual-specs are supposed to be coming with 3.1 too. So I'd expect that you'll take 2 dedicated healers and a 3rd healing class who can alternate between their DPS spec and their healing spec depending on the fight.

Also, you only really need 3 healers for Naxx right at the start, when learning fights. We run with 10 and have plenty of slack on most fights. The only slightly sketchy fight can be Maexxena if a healer gets wrapped during the enrage. Some fights are complete snoozefests for healers, such as the entire plague wing.

[Nevermore]

You're forgetting that dual-specs are supposed to be coming with 3.1 too. So I'd expect that you'll take 2 dedicated healers and a 3rd healing class who can alternate between their DPS spec and their healing spec depending on the fight.

You'll be able to change specs on the fly?  I don't know how it's being implemented in WoW, but in CoX* you have to go to a trainer to toggle between specs.

*I realize CoX isn't WoW, but it's the only MMO I know of that has dual-specs already implemented.

[K9]

Supposedly that's how it is going to be. So you can have a feral or enhance player switch to resto for some fights, then back to DPS to others. If there are any fights like Loatheb(10) which a holy priest in heroic blues can solo heal, then it'll be nice to have the other healers switch to DPS.

[kildorn]

I heard it wasn't supposed to be an in-instance thing. Like, maybe with a cooldown on doing it, but the idea was more "We have 10 people on, but 4 are healers! Oh wait, one of you toggle specs and let's roll" thing than a per fight stacking thing.

[Merusk]

Its being argued back and forth, but the initial idea was to allow swapping inside of instances, but not in combat.  If you still have to portal a player back to a city, talk to a trainer to switch specs, then summon them back what's the gain?  Hardcore or really small guilds do this between fights already, so no point in continuing to make it so cumbersome.

The last big argument I saw was about swapping in and out glyphs as well as talents.

[Montague]

Update:

I'm sad to report that for the time being our raid won't have 3 resto druids, because we managed to snag a Holy Paladin. That may only be temporary though so I'll let you guys know.

We did Sarth + 0 last week with the 3 restos and wiped a few times because of enraged elementals but once we got the positioning right we took him down.  Our hunter is survival specced. 

Tonight is first time in Naxx, looking forward to it.

[Draegan]

Naxx is a fun place.  A lot of interesting fights and not much trash pulling.

[Ingmar]

When they say "bringing more healers will be the norm" they're talking about in the 25 person raids.

[Ingmar]

I heard it wasn't supposed to be an in-instance thing. Like, maybe with a cooldown on doing it, but the idea was more "We have 10 people on, but 4 are healers! Oh wait, one of you toggle specs and let's roll" thing than a per fight stacking thing.

At Blizzcon they told us you would be able to do it inside an instance. Also I am pretty sure I saw a blue post to the effect that your glyphs would switch too, even the contents of your taskbars.

[K9]

Naxx is a fun place.  A lot of interesting fights and not much trash pulling.

My only complaint about some of the fights in 10-man is that they are too long and too forgiving. Heigan and Noth being prime examples of this. I'd prefer fights which are over quicker, but have reduced margins for error. As it stands, on 10-man Heigan our holy pally solo heals everything pretty much, and I just keep abolish disease up on the melee folk and then spend the rest of the time DPSing, occasionally throwing out a ProM or renew.

[Sjofn]

We did Sarth + 0 last week with the 3 restos and wiped a few times because of enraged elementals but once we got the positioning right we took him down.  Our hunter is survival specced. 

Tonight is first time in Naxx, looking forward to it.

Naxx has a lot of fun fights. Also much to your survival hunter.

[Ratman_tf]

Naxx is a fun place.  A lot of interesting fights and not much trash pulling.

My only complaint about some of the fights in 10-man is that they are too long and too forgiving. Heigan and Noth being prime examples of this. I'd prefer fights which are over quicker, but have reduced margins for error. As it stands, on 10-man Heigan our holy pally solo heals everything pretty much, and I just keep abolish disease up on the melee folk and then spend the rest of the time DPSing, occasionally throwing out a ProM or renew.

I think the 'forgiving' factor is what opens up raids more. As fights get more intensive they also get more exclusionary. If one person dying is a raidwipe, then people are going to be more picky about group makeup and more yelling over vent that everyone sucks ass because they got lag and stood in the fire.

Can't they make raids challenging without turning them into gear or latency checks?

[Merusk]

Did my first 25 man naxx tonight, guild decided to take the 11 of us and PUG the rest. 

It's serious, serious bullshit that the fights were measurably easier and the loot is so much better.  It's not like we had a bunch of overgeared puggies either, as my ass was usually in the top 5 on bosses. (Top 3 at the end, but who counts trash)