Finding a Good Guild is Tough!

[Tarami]

It's about anticipation. A large difference to other hobbies is that most other hobbies you can only practice during certain hours - with the team or at a certain venue. Even if you're just raiding twice a week, you're more than likely playing in some manner four nights a week, because that's just a kind of upkeep that's required for when you're playing with the guild. There's nothing that builds up anticipation between events because you can practically release any time you want and people do. It's not their fault - they play when they feel like, but as a result they don't want to play when they're expected to play. If people only played during raid nights, I'm pretty sure you'd see more consistent attendence and also less bitching about minute details. Corollary, people don't want schedules in their MMO because it's that on top of their spontaneous gaming. The magic of getting to play wears off.

All in all, there's no reward in the gaming activity itself, because anyone can play anytime they want. Almost any other hobby requiring attendence blocks you from getting bored of the activity between sessions while raiding indirectly encourages you to poopsock more. There's a huge amount of overhead to raiding.

This isn't valid for everybody, of course, just like there are professional football players, there are "professional" raiders, but for every average guild there's at most one person with the motivation that's required not to get bored of showing up every other night.

[Xerapis]

Not to mention that the guild culture can vary wildly from server to server, and some of us game in entirely different countries.

I don't think being uninformed or having a mental block is stopping me from seeing what my boyfriend is expected to do to participate in his guild (not even one of the top guilds) every night. I mean, he's sitting right next to me. I'm happily fishing or watching Top Chef, and he's in the middle of hour four of a total Naxx clear with mandatory attendance (for example).

[Draegan]

I know a lot of guilds put in 4-5 hours a day 4-5 days a week just to keep a certain block of people away and then usually only raid 2-3 nights a week.

[Dewdrop]

Theres also alot of the poopsock style guilds that raid 5-6 (sometimes 7) nights/week for hours on end until they beat the 'next big thing' and then go back to a couple nights a week. That was the situation in BC with a couple of the guilds on my server that are like this. They were raiding every night to clear BT and kill Illidan first, or second or whatever and then they got it done.. Now what? Theres no more content so the 5 night schedule gets turned into 2-3 nights while they just farm existing content and gear up. Then Sunwell comes out and they are back at it 5,6,7 nights a week.. It's not as if they have been raiding 6 nights a week every single week for the last 4 years without coming up for air.

[kildorn]

The 'required' part is what separates a Hardcore and Casual guild in my mind.

This. Required attendance is lame, and I didn't have it even in a "hardcore" raiding guild back in the day. Shit happens, game isn't life, and we'd only get pissy if either nobody showed, or more specifically no raid leaders showed. And that was just a facilitation thing. No required schedule, just keep the other officers up on days you're avail, and we'll try and work something out on sketchy days.

Ingmar's a total head enchant nazi, anyways, so his idea of rep grinds is evil 

[Pot Pol]

As most posts have stated already if it's in the guild recruitment channel then it's worth avoiding. Also I would heartily recommend avoiding any Guild that recruits in the forums. I'm sure you have been unlucky enough to browse the forums at some point so I guess you are aware of the mind-melting levels of sheer inanity and utter fail of 99% of them. Do none of your RL friends play WoW? That is without doubt the best way to get in a guild, but if this is a no-go then the only option is to do as you are already and stalk people in instances. If you find a player you admire try and check out his/her guild on the realm forum, just to see if they are involved in any asshattery or drama ninja-ing. Failing that transfer to EU Earthen Ring and come join our guild - we're mostly 80 now and slowly getting ready for Naxx etc. I wish you good luck tho, and don't forget to check wow-insider for guild recruitment info.

[rattran]

I would heartily recommend avoiding any Guild that recruits in the forums.
...
 Failing that transfer to EU Earthen Ring and come join our guild - we're mostly 80 now and slowly getting ready for Naxx etc.

It made me laugh.

[Ingmar]

The 'required' part is what separates a Hardcore and Casual guild in my mind.

This. Required attendance is lame, and I didn't have it even in a "hardcore" raiding guild back in the day. Shit happens, game isn't life, and we'd only get pissy if either nobody showed, or more specifically no raid leaders showed. And that was just a facilitation thing. No required schedule, just keep the other officers up on days you're avail, and we'll try and work something out on sketchy days.

Ingmar's a total head enchant nazi, anyways, so his idea of rep grinds is evil 

You only had to get to revered you lazy bastard!

[chargerrich]

I hope advertising my guild in this thread is okay. If it is not, please feel free to delete and consider myself reprimanded.

Banality of Evil is a raid progression and leveling guild designed for those that do not or cannot devote 100 hours a week. We are located on the Burning Legion server and are a partial transfer guild having come from Gnomeregan not long ago.

BOE offers the standard stuff; site, vent, 4 tab bank and yes even a tabard! 

We raid two nights per week (Sun and Wed) and are currently doing 10 man Nax with relative ease. We will start doing 25 man when we round out our core teams. I would say we fall somewhere between "militant hardcore" and "casual".

Still relatively small but we have good peeps and are pretty active (we usually have 20+ on most nights out of only 60 or so).

I have always loved this site and would really enjoy playing the game with most of you guys.

Site is located at www.boeguild.com

[Draegan]

Anyone recruiting DK's and Hunter's?

[Rasix]

Apparently my guild's recruiting DKs.  I'm gone one fucking day, and they add twothree full time poopsock raider DKs.  The times they play completely engulf mine.   We had more 80 DKs on last night than we had any other class. 

Yah, the DK shit is getting out of hand now  and right when I got mine to 80. I really like this class too, I don't feel like getting any of my other classes to 80.  Is there any hope I'll be able to somehow wait it out?

[Merusk]

I know the feeling. I'm still the only DK in my guild, but we've started raiding 25-mans with another guild on Fridays.   Guess who gets to sit out twiddling his thumbs me, DK #4.

I started leveling up my priest.  I really prefer the DK, but fuggit I know I can do whatever the fuck I want on my server as a priest since we've got such a shortage of healing classes.  Every night on the weekend I see 2-3 Naxx raids LF Healer and there's at least 4-5 heroics at any time just waiting on one.

[Draegan]

There is definitely a glut of DKs in the game.  But you can usually tell the bad ones from the good ones.  I love this class so I won't be switching even if I have to pug everything for the rest of my existence.

[Ingmar]

Even our little non-heroic raiding alliance has more 80 DKs than any other class. 4 of em, out of like 20 level 80 characters total.

[Lt.Dan]

I love those guild broadcast applications that say "over 50 active members" and when you do a /who there are less than five online.  But hey they have a cool tabard!

[K9]

And a guild bank with two tabs!

[Fordel]

It's because DK's are full of shit when it comes to leveling. Three shot every mob I run into while never losing any health or having to stop for mana? Oh those were elite? 




Plus having your alt start at 50+ is nice, lets you actually spec into a talent tree right off the bat instead of saving up your points every level for that +5 bonus to mending or whatever before you can get the fun abilities.

Yet, I think the single largest factor in the DK staying power to 80, is their 'noob' gear. It looks cool and more importantly, it is really fucking good stat wise. Compare it to the shit your average regular 60 is wearing when they enter TBC. Compare it to the quest rewards your average leveler will have access too in TBC now. There is little comparison. I'll probably wear my noob gear all the way to northrend, maybe upgrade the weapons if I get lucky drops or something.

My other alts have hit something of a gear wall, thanks for the hilariously bad itemization pre-TBC (matched by the hilariously bad visuals a lot of the time). I'd probably be a lot more motivated to play them if I didn't have to hunt the AH/Quest rewards for that one half decent item that is remotely useful to me. Give me a set of 'veteran' armor every 10 levels for my desired spec, let me QQ about the gear carrot AFTER I've beaten the leveling carrot. They started doing this, sort of, half arsed, with the Bound to Account items that auto level to the same level as the wearer, but those are limited to shoulders and weapons currently.

[WindupAtheist]

Wait, you're complaining about pre-BC itemization and searching the AH? Why, so you can beat ass in Feralas just a little bit harder? As long as you're not so underpowered that you can't kill quest mobs to hit 58 and go to outland, who cares?

[Draegan]

Getting gear prior to level 70 right now is useless as you outlevel it extremely fast.  Especially with the boosts they put in and RAF.

[Sheepherder]

Heh, so evidently Banality of Evil is setting up a chapter on Burning Legion.


Gotta love a server where (arguably) the best raiding guild is called "OG".

[Fordel]

Wait, you're complaining about pre-BC itemization and searching the AH? Why, so you can beat ass in Feralas just a little bit harder? As long as you're not so underpowered that you can't kill quest mobs to hit 58 and go to outland, who cares?

That's my point. The leveling gear is irrelevant, so why do I have to be a hobo in glorified 'of the boar' armor while leveling up?


DK's actually feel like a 'main' right off the bat, is what I'm saying. You know that feeling you have with your main, when you can go "yea, I'm in pretty good shape and can handle anything I want to tackle"? Sure there are still things you can improve, but your pretty much "finished", no real urgency or anything.

That's what I mean by hitting a wall with my alts. I log them in, and it's just 'meh'. They are so hodgepodge, it just leads to apathy. The DK starting package, feels extremely put together by comparison. Feels like I'm already playing a second main, instead of just another alt that I have to rebuild etc.

[Merusk]

I really can't relate to what you're saying at all.  I got all the chars I wanted to 60 or 70 over the last 4 years, without a problem or feeling underpowered. (Except maybe the priest, that continues to suck.)   I replaced several pieces of DK gear well before anyone else says they did because there WERE leveling upgrades along the way.  Sure, I didn't use anything out of Hellfire but that's just one zone.  The only place I dominated on the DK compared  to any other class I've leveled was in PVP battlegrounds because frankly, most people SUCK at picking appropriate items.

The only time I feel "meh" is when I realize I don't really want to level that class anyway.  Like Rogue, or Warrior or Shaman.. they languish at 29, 60 and 48 with no prospect of me going back.

[Ingmar]

The only reason a DK might not take upgrades in Outland is because leveling is so fast they might hit 68 before they get past Terokkar. 

The main issue I see is that there's a long period of 'ho hum' with the talents for a lot of classes before you get to the good stuff. Shadow priests are a good example. I do agree that the quest rewards from the old world could use a thorough revamping. It would be cool if everyone could go through something like the DK starter stuff, epic type storyline, but soloable, and end up with a decent suit of armor to take them through to the expansion. It would be a huge amount of work though on the development side.

[Draegan]

If you start in the Outlands at 60 as a DK and do every quest efficiently (skipping some) then you should hit 70 by finishing Nagrand.

[kildorn]

If you start in the Outlands at 60 as a DK and do every quest efficiently (skipping some) then you should hit 70 by finishing Nagrand.

I went to outlands at 58, was 68 after doing about 12 nagrand quests.

Leveling a DK is hilariously easy.

[Rasix]

If you start in the Outlands at 60 as a DK and do every quest efficiently (skipping some) then you should hit 70 by finishing Nagrand.

I went to outlands at 58, was 68 after doing about 12 nagrand quests.

Leveling a DK is hilariously easy.

Pretty much. I completed most of Nagrand but I skipped Terrorkar completely since I HATE THAT ZONE.

Even with running out of rested exp a few times, I hit 80 with only a third of Icecrown done, all of Grizzly hills untouched and all of Storm Peaks untouched.  Which is good, because not having epic flight sucks (this will be the third character with.. ugg).

The lvl 80 alt DKs in my guild are epicly retarded.  I really look forward to some of their tanking attempts.
"Hey, guyz, will returning as a ghoul on death be good for tanking."
"You die, you lose aggro. Ohh, and you're DEAD. You do get 2% stam.  So there's that. " 
"No, the ghoul iz me. So, iz it gud? Will it help me tank?" "
./facepalm"

I suppose that's better than them all being 32/39.   

[kildorn]

Man, my DK never even knew what rested XP was.

My shaman ran out at 79.8 or so.

[Rasix]

Man, my DK never even knew what rested XP was.

It took a lot of self control (Persona 4 helped) and me wasting time getting my shaman to 75 before switching back for good.

[Fordel]

Hey, 32/39 is so overpowered right now, they could face roll to 6k dps!

[Merusk]

I tried 32/39 and hated it.  I have enough hit to make 2h work really well but as dual wield I was missing more than hitting so no net gain.  Having to get so much +hit sucks ass and the rotation was boring as shit, so I respecced back to pure Unholy.  It's much more fun and my DPS is about the same at this point in my gear life.

[Dewdrop]

You need roughly 11% paper doll hit to make 32/39 work due to the spell hit rating thing being lower. Over 9% ensures all your melee based specials hit, being over 11% ensures that everything that isnt an autoattack hits, assuming you have Virulence, which you would with 32/39. So, thats puts you at:

17% Spell Hit (assuming a moonkin or shadowpriest for 3% spell hit bonus)
14% Melee Hit

Also, bear in mind that 32/39 really shines in a 25 man raid environment with all applicable buffs and boosts you get from a raid. In a 10 man or 5 man or running around farming its likely you will get better performance out of a cookie cutter Unholy build with a 2h weapon since you give yourself more buffs. By myself i can barely get to 3k dps on a raid level target dummy with 32/39. In a raid with all my buffs up 6k isn't out of reach (ive come close on patchwerk... so very close). The power of buffs..

[Merusk]

I can totally see that.  I normally run 2.5 to 2.7kdps in our 10 man naxx's as 2h unholy. Last night we ran 25-man Archavon as a PUG and I was over 3k.. which boggled me because I'm always in and out of Melee on that fucking fight as the tank moves around like he's got epilepsy due to the cloud, etc.  No shaman in the raid either.

[WindupAtheist]

You know that guy? That guy who's a guild officer or leader? That guy who's nice and seemingly normal enough when there are no females involved, but hasn't had a real girlfriend in eons and can't help falling madly in love with some chick in the guild? That guy who manages to be all emo and make things insufferable for everyone when said chick doesn't want to fucking e-date his dork ass? I hate that guy. I could shoot that guy right in the face in front of his mother. Fuck you, go on a real date and quit ruining MMOs you pathetic hosebag.

To make a short story even shorter: Four of us /gquit simultaneously and are making our own little guild to hang out in once we think of a name. Fuck it, one more person and we can run heroics. They're lucky nobody cared to rob the guild bank on the way out.

EDIT:  I want to be "Hogger's Heroes" but I don't think it will take the apostraphe and nobody else seems to like the name as much as me. :(

[Sjofn]

Man, I would hate being that chick. Thankfully most internet dudes that would be annoying that way find me terrifying and/or totally unappealing. 

I think the name Hogger's Heroes is funny enough that I would share it with other people in my guild, although not being able to use an apostrophe is tragic.

[Draegan]

This is great.

Last night I was doing a 25m Naxx run with my new guild.  I joined this guild earlier this week with my buddy.  He did a run an OS run with them earlier and said they were good.  I'm thinking this is pretty good.  So I do the first half of Naxx with them and we clear in pretty good fashion and call it a night.

Raid last night.  I"m on the phone most of the night so vents off really and I'm pulling anywhere from 6-10 on the damage meters as everyone else is pulling 4+k dps and I can barely touch 3k.  So I'm not dieing at all.  Only melee left alive on Heigan, not making any noise, winning a few rolls etc.  Now it comes down to Thaddius.  I'm an idiot and I'm not paying attention so I went to the wrong side for Polarity.  Oops my bad.  Raid wipes eventually because we only had 20 people and he enraged with 10m hps left.

So we're all coming back to rebuff and sitting there in the boss room.  I'm buffing myself (I'm a DK) and I cast bone shield and raise ghoul.  Oops some asswipe didn't walk back.  And I get "You didn't just fucking ghoul me!"  in raid chat.  I replied, "Really?  You could walk back? Really? "That's what you get." 

I get ensuing nerd rage and people screaming at me.  Apparently his piece of shit computer takes 10 minutes to load a zone so he always gets a ress and I just fucked everyone up.  My friend says he should upgrade his POS computer, I commented that my cell phone can run WOW better than his computer.  We get banned from vent and gkicked.

It was awesome.  I'm so glad I didn't waste my time with that guild and managed to get an awesome leather chest upgrade since it normally would be tough to get from a rogue and the mace from Patchwork.

It just sucks I didn't have time to raid the guild bank and gquit on my own.  Meh.