The MMOG landscape - unchanging and eternal (since 2004)

[eldaec]

I present eldeac's expert review of the mmog landscape, good at any time since TWO THOUSAND AND FUCKING FOUR.

WoW : The mindless shiny diku mmog.
EVE : The serious business mmog.
CoH & Planetside : 2 weeks vacation twice a year.

Everything else : Shit.


Developers: it has been almost exactly FOUR FUCKING YEARS since this picture changed. Please be providing a game now. This is almost as long as we've been waiting for a wing commander clone.

Everyone else: what the fuck is going to change this picture and when? There is almost nothing with even half a chance in development, just wtf is the population of Austin doing? I know its hot down there but fuck, this is getting beyond a joke.

Predictions please, name a future mmog you are even slightly interested in.

[Draegan]

I would disagree with you with COH and Planetside first of all.  I wish I could have the character customization for free.  Thats fun for an hour or two.

As far as future MMO's I know stuff about I'm looking forward to Jumpgate since I've been waiting for a PEW PEW MMOG and I was also interested in AION though that interest is waning fast.

[damijin]

My interest in Aion was stunted strongly as I saw the control scheme and the game play in action. It looks good, but it doesn't look good enough to stand up and shout "LOOK AT ME. I AM BORN IN 2008. FUCK YOU 2004 GAMES."

In short, it looks like a good game, but it doesnt look like something that people will go out of their way for, and thats a real shame.

I really have no idea when a new MMO will come out that really pulls me to it. It doesnt seem like one is coming any time soon.

[Draegan]

I've heard differently.  A few people I've talked too said that the AION controls scheme is just a good as any other MMO as far as responsiveness.

[HaemishM]

I've heard differently.  A few people I've talked too said that the AION controls scheme is just a good as any other MMO as far as responsiveness.

That's hardly what I'd consider praise.

[Venkman]

Looking forward to SWTOR. For realz. I'm hoping they can prove a story-based hero's journey MMO is worthwhile so we can get another part of the genre instead of just the two we have now (economic sims and character optimization engines).

[Nija]

We're going to need something mass multiplayer with God of War-like combat, minimum, to pull people away from WoW. More diku shit is HOIST THE FAILURE SAILS, WE'RE GOING HOME.

[ashrik]

The question is, how do you Blizzard a genre that's been completely Blizzardized?

::shakes magic 8-ball::

All signs point towards WoW2

GODDAMMIT

Resistance is futile

[SnakeCharmer]

Looking forward to SWTOR, despite early reservations wherein I realized I was being a twat about it.  But it's probably 2-3 years away?  It's so far off that I may as well not think about it.

Also looking forward to The Secret World from Funcom.  Something different as far as the landscape in which it will be built.  Again, it's probably 2 years away, so there's that...

Everything else I was looking forward to has crashed, burned, and imploded upon itself.  Nothing in the immediate 2 years looks appealling.

[Draegan]

I've heard differently.  A few people I've talked too said that the AION controls scheme is just a good as any other MMO as far as responsiveness.

That's hardly what I'd consider praise.

Well they did compare it to WOW.

Anyway here's a live stream of AION:
http://www.mogulus.com/hellbound

Edit:
I don't think you can look forward to game that has no released details yet!  Doesn't count.

[Venkman]

All signs point towards WoW2

Starcraft MMO first.

[Arthur_Parker]

Looking at the non graveyard forums for games.

EQ -> WoW
UO -> EvE
AC1 -> nothing

There's a gap in the market for a bell curve/skill based advancement system, combined with a randomised loot system based on different elemental damage types.  Part twitch (yeah I said it) would be nice too, though I won't cry if they lose the constant need to rebuff.

[Nebu]

I would disagree with you with COH and Planetside first of all. 

I agree with Draegan. 

CoH is the vacation MMO of choice.  GW may be second in line due to the lack of a sub fee.

[Sunbury]

There's a gap in the market for a bell curve/skill based advancement system, combined with a randomised loot system based on different elemental damage types.  Part twitch (yeah I said it) would be nice too, though I won't cry if they lose the constant need to rebuff.

Actually one doesn't need to buff much in AC1 anymore.  Level 7's last one hour, (2 hours if you get the Augmentation).  Aside from that, with quest items + random drops, you can pretty much wear all the Life / Creature spells so you don't have to buff, except to gap-fill.  Mostly just 1-cast Item armor everything so your underclothes have armor, and add some banes.

[Arthur_Parker]

Buffs should last until you die.

[Venkman]

I hate buffs nowadays. You either have them on or you don't. There's very few that require careful thought. And in no way to do I want a return to the old days of "buff classes". That's even worse, something absolutely relegated eventually to bot-status (ie, as soon as you're trying to figure out how to macro the thing to follow you around, the design has failed).

I'd rather just have them moved to innate status, either to the character as an unlock or how most other stat adjustments work: by gear.

But I'm welcome to be proven wrong.

[Modern Angel]

The only thing coming along is going to be something we don't know about. For some reason, investors still think they can get part of Blizzard's pie... by out Blizzarding Blizzard. Seriously, fuck that. You cannot do it. Stop. Quit. And the new Star Wars thing won't do it because they'll go right down the same primrose path everyone else did, like lambs to the slaughter. This is the year the MMO died or, as Darniaq clarified when I said it earlier, this is the year when games started between 2003 and 2008 died.

The only one I may check out (besides a brief dalliance here and there in LotRO) is the WoD MMO. Because even though EVE isn't my cup of tea it's different. It's on their own terms and they're smart.

[Fordel]

Everyone else: what the fuck is going to change this picture and when? There is almost nothing with even half a chance in development, just wtf is the population of Austin doing? I know its hot down there but fuck, this is getting beyond a joke.

Predictions please, name a future mmog you are even slightly interested in.

Nothing. Not as long as the same idiots are given money to make the same mistakes all over again and again.

[Valmorian]

The only one I may check out (besides a brief dalliance here and there in LotRO) is the WoD MMO. Because even though EVE isn't my cup of tea it's different. It's on their own terms and they're smart.

I hope White Wolf can do a better job transitioning from RPG's to MMO's than they did trying out Board Games.  Some of the worst board game designs ever.

[Hellinar]

I’m enjoying the WoW expansion, with the fun new quests an all. But it won’t last long, I realize MMOGs aren't ever grab me again like they used to.

I’m thinking, back when EQ and the like were new, MMOGs were a frontier land. Nobody knew quite what to expect next, and the social conventions weren’t set. Now its settled territory.  Settlers come looking for a regular job, running dungeons, grinding faction etc. Places to shop and things to buy. They want to do things the familiar way. Even niche games like ATiTD have brought in levels and fast running to be like everyone else.

If you are looking for change, MMOGs are the wrong place. Its too late. They are a settled land. Out on the Net somewhere, change is brewing. I’m still trying to figure out where. Not here though.

MMOGs can still be fun. But novel? I don’t think so.

[UnsGub]

For some reason, investors still think they can get part of Blizzard's pie... by out Blizzarding Blizzard. Seriously, fuck that. You cannot do it. Stop. Quit.

Business competition is all about doing what some else is doing.  It will happen.  Look at Microsoft, IBM, Apple.  Look at phones.  Look at internet service providers. The pie has gotten bigger and all have had their ups and downs.  Someone will get Blizzard's pie and make good money.  It may take a decade but with the rate of change in hardware and software that process is get shorter and shorter cycles.  It is still a problem gate by technology and so it is still "hard".

[Venkman]

This is what it's like when a genre has reached it's peak. While some here (including myself) prefer to think of MMOs as a medium (and for which "persistent state world" is a more appropriate name) the types of people deciding how to enter this place have two, maybe three points of reference. And it's "maybe" because a lot of people who hold the purse strings don't see a difference between Club Penguin and Webkinz.

But this only shows that not only have we not evolved since 2004, we've actually de-volved, to 2002. Replace WoW with EQ1. Replace Club Penguin with Runescape.

Worse, and the part from which I derive the most disappointment, the #1 subscription-based MMO is making exactly the same evolutionary missteps that EQ1 did. And they're able to do so for the same reason (relative position to #2).

This is the downside of the peak: stagnation. When there's no real competition, there's no need to deviate from plan.

There's no one to blame really. Nobody can look at the numbers and see anything but supply and demand in action. And given the activity even in this place of battle-hardened veterans, I can't say we're worse off than we were when it was SOE running the show. Many of us have just become conditioned to expecting the next big thing to replace the current big thing. That this hasn't happened since WoW is more a testament to us finally getting what we wanted all along than the sort of resigned acceptance we had for EQ1 pending the launch of DAoC then CoH then every other money grab until 2004.

We're the market. We've been served.

[Modern Angel]

The only one I may check out (besides a brief dalliance here and there in LotRO) is the WoD MMO. Because even though EVE isn't my cup of tea it's different. It's on their own terms and they're smart.

I hope White Wolf can do a better job transitioning from RPG's to MMO's than they did trying out Board Games.  Some of the worst board game designs ever.

They got bought by CCP. There's no transition to make. They're good to go and they are hiring en masse in Atlanta.

[Lantyssa]

We're the market. We've been served.

I sent mine back to the kitchen.  It wasn't what I ordered.

[ashrik]

I've heard differently.  A few people I've talked too said that the AION controls scheme is just a good as any other MMO as far as responsiveness.

That's hardly what I'd consider praise.

Well they did compare it to WOW.

Anyway here's a live stream of AION:
http://www.mogulus.com/hellbound

Edit:
I don't think you can look forward to game that has no released details yet!  Doesn't count.

Is anyone else watching this? The game looks surprising solid and appears to run well. Combat looks fairly satisfying and animations/art that I've seen so far is well done. I don't know how you're going to break my heart Aion... but I'm watching you....

[Draegan]

I thought sub numbers for a single game peaked at 500k with EQ1? 

[Fordel]

Worse, and the part from which I derive the most disappointment, the #1 subscription-based MMO is making exactly the same evolutionary missteps that EQ1 did. And they're able to do so for the same reason (relative position to #2).

I don't understand what you mean here? Which mistakes is WoW making that are the same as EQ1?

[Draegan]

Worse, and the part from which I derive the most disappointment, the #1 subscription-based MMO is making exactly the same evolutionary missteps that EQ1 did. And they're able to do so for the same reason (relative position to #2).

I don't understand what you mean here? Which mistakes is WoW making that are the same as EQ1?

I think he means the expansions are coming out too fast and their quality is obviously falling as well.

[ashrik]

It seems to me that the stagnation is less of a problem OF WoW and more that the problem IS WoW. They're making the game that their audience wants. That is evident in their subscription numbers.

In doing so, however, they create a smaller-but-growing audience of those who once wanted what WoW is- but now want something that WoW is not. The actual difference between WoW and the next thing could be trivial and just a matter of perception, but once A) that audience grows big enough [it's already fairly large now, based on box sales of AoC and WAR] and B) a company delivers, the market deadlock will end.

[Draegan]

I think the people who don't like WOW or think the genre sucks now or the people think it's stagnating really don't know what they want.

If you pay attention to WOW from release to now it has evolved a lot, and for the better.

It's easier to get together with people and play the game.
There is plenty to do at the end game for casual to hardcore.
They've gone away from the poopsock endgame to less time commitment for the end game. (Read: Less farming and grinding).
40 man to 25 man to 10 man.
10 man progression along the same story as 25 man.
Daily quests.
Arenas.
Class structure. Gear and stat attributes.  Slowly destroying class stigmas.
Quest layout and progression.  Map Design and Dungeon Design*

You can go on.

*Dungeon design took a turn for the worse in TBC if you ask me but has improved tremendously in WOTLK.


You can list many more details includi

Of course this is all within the lines of a Diku game.  A lot of people bitch about dikus about how they suck etc.  But they're fun to the people who enjoy them and that's a lot of people.

What would you want in your next MMO?  I challenge anyone to give me something completely different that what we have right now?

A correct response is not:
"sandbox"
"PVP MMOG"
"Hardcore full loot PVP MMOG"
Anything with the words "done right"

If you can come up with a type of MMOG that you want to play that isn't WOW I'll be pleasantly surprised.  I think most people want a different flavor of WOW/EQ1/SojournMUD/DIKU.

[UnsGub]

If you are looking for change, MMOGs are the wrong place. Its too late. They are a settled land. Out on the Net somewhere, change is brewing. I’m still trying to figure out where. Not here though.

Open source has not hit gaming yet.  Gaming is currently tied to hardware, be it a console or video cards.  Music is also currently tied to hardware as Steve Jobs determines how much music costs but there are many efforts to change that.  Once games are free of hardware MMOs will be the wild west again.  Tools are starting to slowly change in for games but they still have a long long way to go.  Once the access and ease of use to tools is available then games will spread just like types of music the last few decades.

[Lantyssa]

What would you want in your next MMO?  I challenge anyone to give me something completely different that what we have right now?

Fallout 3.  Not the mechanics, though I like skill based systems, but the emphasis on story and exploring and less on leveling.  Dress-up and homemaking.  Achievements are about decorations, a neat weapon or fancy looking armor, and not how overpowered they make you.  Pie-in-the-sky is the world reacts to the pressure put on by the players in different areas.

It is not, most assuredly, DIKU.

[TheCastle]

I have to ask about this.
My personal feeling is that a MMOG sequel is a automatic shark jump of sorts.
I feel like WoW2 would be a terribly huge risk on Blizzards part.

And for that matter the type of MMOG I would like to play would be more along the lines of Oblivion or Fallout 3 in nature. Your PVE experience comes to you as a result of exploring and just being in a large world. I say a MMOG that gives the same feeling as games like Oblivion or Fallout 3 when playing would be a game I drop all other MMOGs for.

Also next up in line I believe that we have a bunch of first person shooter MMOGS coming out soon.
Its possible one of those might branch off a new sub genre at the very least.

Otherwise I don't have much else to say.

[Montague]

Draegan nailed it. The market for anything not called WoW is fragmented. Some want FFA PVP, some want sandbox, some just want to play something that 11 million people aren't playing.

The problem is that Blizzard has created huge barriers of entry into the market. New MMO's don't have much of a grace period for them to work out wonky servers, bugs, and balance issues. You put out an MMO today you aren't competing with WoW of 2004, you're competing with WOTLK, Ozzy Osbourne, and invaluable years of trial-and-error experience backed by literally billions of dollars of revenue.

What developers are finding out is that in order to take that share they will indeed have to outblizzard Blizzard. The attention to detail and amount of iteration required will demand a budget in the 100 million dollar range coupled with an almost unlimited time window. The tragic thing is that as those budgets rise the companies funding them will become more risk averse, so you can forget seeing anything other than a tried-and-true DIKU for that sort of money.

Long story short is that gamers dissatisfied with WoW want their preferred style of game with Blizzardesque quality. It's not going to happen anytime soon.

[Slyfeind]

I could really go for a Harry Potter world, where achievements are based on social interactions rather than kill count. Exploration would play heavily into it, too. Another IP that would work well with this is Zelazny's "Amber" series.

Other than that, I really want a UO2/SWG2 sandbox. :P