What are you working on?

[Stormwaltz]

2. finished The Twisted Heart in Evendim.  See Fornost.  A very badly balanced quest at the end of difficult chain in a remote place that's time consuming to get to.  I wrote a whole thread about it on the official forums, but can't link it because of their DC move.  Really can't recommend doing that quest chain.

Do post it when they're back up. The forums have lately seen sharp clashes between the casual/solo/small group players and the raider/PUG players. I suspect you may get caught in the crossfire.

The numbers say solo/small group players are correct.

[Yegolev]

I'm in favor of three-man content.  The six-man groups I have been part of get disorganized fast unless someone is acting as commander, and I'm just not that hardcore about it.

[Tarami]

I think Fornost is a pretty cool place. Not for shinies, but it has a neat atmosphere. It feels sorta authentic.

[Yegolev]

I think Fornost is a pretty cool place. Not for shinies, but it has a neat atmosphere. It feels sorta authentic.

Mentioning that, I am reading the book currently.  This is literally the first time I have read a fictional book since around 1999 at latest... but that's not the point unless you are playing Yegolev: The Home Game.  What I find is that the game world is, well, pretty small and in some places just kinda weird, like Crickhollow being too close to everything.  Maybe even wrong but I'm going to have to check a couple of things if I remember to.  Can't be helped, I know; who the hell wants to take two days to ride from Bree to Forsaken Inn?  Compromises must be made.  There's just some contrast, is all I'm saying, and I'm going to just keep appreciating the game on its own merits rather than compare to the book(s).

That said, I still really like the Shire very much, and Hobbiton in particular.  Previously I think my least favorite was Midgewater, but they have very much improved the fog there, in my opinion, and it feels a lot better.  There is still a hard transition but while I'm in there it seems better.  Right now I think the Old Forest is at the bottom of my list because it just doesn't feel like a forest.

[tmp]

Can't be helped, I know; who the hell wants to take two days to ride from Bree to Forsaken Inn?  Compromises must be made.

Yeah, the size of the world is much smaller and i think the (relatively) exaggerated vertical scale doesn't help it either, combined it can lead to a strong "disney world" feel every now and then. That said, the layout of things is pretty accurate... on the lorebook site there was even route of the Fellowship sketched on the game map, all way from Shire to Moria. Would link to it but site is down at the moment.

[Zetor]

I second the hate for Fornost, at least from a player/design perspective. Rant time!


(edit) spoilered the rant to not spoil instance details for those who haven't been there yet
That said, some of the instance was enjoyable, but these issues were very disheartening for us. (if Fornost is supposed to be authentic, then Tolkien needs to l2instancedesign! ) Does it get better in later instances?


-- Z.

[HaemishM]

Yeah, the Old Forest was pretty annoying. It felt like a foggy cave with too many random monsters.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, the Old Forest was pretty annoying. It felt like a foggy cave with too many random monsters.

It was better before, still one of my favorite areas.

[Yegolev]

Yeah, the Old Forest was pretty annoying. It felt like a foggy cave with too many random monsters.

It was better before, still one of my favorite areas.

Do you mean when it moved around?  I can see how that was frustrating (missed that era) but the atmosphere just isn't there now.  I am not at all relieved when I arrive at Tom's house; in fact, he is pretty damn annoying in animated form.  Doesn't help when he is often both inside and outside his house, either.  I'm more relieved to arrive in the Barrow Downs.

[Mrbloodworth]

Yeah, the Old Forest was pretty annoying. It felt like a foggy cave with too many random monsters.

It was better before, still one of my favorite areas.

Do you mean when it moved around?  I can see how that was frustrating (missed that era) but the atmosphere just isn't there now.  I am not at all relieved when I arrive at Tom's house; in fact, he is pretty damn annoying in animated form.  Doesn't help when he is often both inside and outside his house, either.  I'm more relieved to arrive in the Barrow Downs.

No map, changed around, darker overall, Mobs not so spread out, but were more logically lumped together as if living in a particular section. It was downright spooky, and i loved that it was possible to get lost. But that's just me. Its still a good zone.

[Soln]

Just on Fornost -- yes, I'm glad they have something there for the lore, but I think the problem is that Fornost was designed for when the game capped at 50.  With the recent expansion it now needs an overhaul IMO.  Fornost like Twisted Heart were there pre-cap to help people skill up and gear up in groups.  But that loot is now worthless from mudflation so there needs to be a better incentive to tough it out.  The amount of time you take on both instances should give at least a title, which is permanent.

Basically, Fornost is LOOOOONNNG.  And there is no great player map either to assist (think on that).  It is very easy to get lost there.  The important Morgul Hilt quest at Fornost involves 4 bosses, plus 2 required mini bosses on the way, and two optional mini quest bosses.  For those who don't know the instance, you need to kill each boss to unlock passage to the next. And there are miscellaneous other quests on the way. Last straw for me was after the loooonng quest arc at Dol Dinen with the "Master of the Tide" quest, they give you an other quest for a 40-lvl boss at Fornost... That was a hair pulling moment.  So, yeah I'm glad I did the place but I really can't recommend it to anyone who is new and is eager to get to the cap.  We stayed at it just to complete all quests in our log.

"Twisted Heart" (lvl 40 fello quest on west side of Evendum) is a whole other magnitude of suck.  Far worst and frustrating IMO.  Fornost can be entertaining because it's so big -- Twisted Heart in Evendim is just plain annoying and not worth the time.  Here's my thread on the official forums and the text below.  My wife and I had tried it at 40, then mid and late 40's and then finally finished it with a full team of 3 or 4 low 50's and 2 or 3 high 40 lvl players in a PUG after being unable at 51 to duo it.  We wiped three times with this full PUG before finishing the quest.  The main problem I think is overlapping objectives -- repeated boss kills with a puzzle and an escort quest (protect NPC).  Bad design, poor playability.  It's also at the end of a pretty hard chain where you defeat a 40 lvl boss (Heartrot), and doesn't feel necessary story-wise.

Twisted Heart Instance, needs rework
Folks, the lvl 40 Evendim "Twisted Heart" instance quest is unbalanced. The spoiler feedback from many players indicate this on many sites, and its not realistic even with a full group of mid-40's. The quest is a bad mixture of more than one objective and the tasks are very poorly explained. All together, the quest is not worth the trouble because you've done a bad job mixing:

1- an elite destroy quest with
2- an earlier elite destroy quest (Heartrot)
3- an escort quest, and then a
4- a puzzle quest, all together.

For example:

1. The puzzle of running back and forth is not well explained. You need to highlight the fact that you have to run back to the boss tree from the roots, which you put at the start of the instance for some reason.

2. There's no need to have Heartrot as an extra wandering mob -- it only confuses because there's no indication what to do with him. We defeat him in the lead up quest to this instance and then he reappears, make it seem you have to defeat him again early on in the instance. Instead, he can only be defeated at the very end, after THREE rounds of roots and boss tree travel.

3. There's no need to turn the boss tree NPC and force people to run back to the roots again -- if you need to keep that, MAKE IT CLEAR you have to defend the Longbough NPC.

4. Why is there a need to REPEATEDLY go from the roots to the boss tree? I can understand one round trip, but THREE TIMES just seems like someone never tested this quest at the actual recommended level.

5. Finally, it would help if you put a summoning horn at the camp -- it would get more people to try and complete the quest because of the long distance to travel/swim to start it.

6. Also it should be noted because you have multiple objectives, you end up staying combat almost the whole time, making power regen really hard. All in all it doesn't seem anyone has play tested this in a long while.

Please review. Thanks.

[Yegolev]

Good writeup.  I thought 1.1.11 was bad, this sounds worse.

My wife's opinion on lv18 epic quests that you cannot duo at 30 is that they suck hobbit cock.  I agree.  She has decided to avoid fellowship quests from now on due to this.

[Soln]

yeah, LotRO protip:  elite mobs in an instance are far harder than elite mobs in everyday (non-instanced) zones. 

There's no indication that the stats are higher (like resists) but they just are. 

You can duo or complete fello quests without a full PUG in the regular world, but there's no way in my experience that's possible in an instance (even if you are 10 lvls above the listed recommended fellowship level).

[Mrbloodworth]

I do not think mobs inside instances like that are the same class of boss/mob.

This is the list of all types of creatures in the game (In no particular order). Denoted by its border.

Arch-nemesis
Avenger
Defender
Elite
Elite Master
   
Hero
Master Defender
Nemesis
Signature
Swarm

[Megrim]

yeah, LotRO protip:  elite mobs in an instance are far harder than elite mobs in everyday (non-instanced) zones. 

There's no indication that the stats are higher (like resists) but they just are. 

You can duo or complete fello quests without a full PUG in the regular world, but there's no way in my experience that's possible in an instance (even if you are 10 lvls above the listed recommended fellowship level).

Oh it's not that bad. A guildmate and i went through about 50% of Fornost with a level 51 Hunter and a 41 Captain. It just take a very, very long time.

[Tarami]

There's no difference between instance elites and world elites as far as I know, in terms of stats. Big difference is that instance elites never stop chasing and never become completely aggroless (like greys in the world.) The reason you can often underman fellowship quests in the open world is that you can usually exploit the behaviour of the mobs in some way. If you go pull three - four elites in the world like you do in instances, you will die without a proper group.

[Triforcer]

I think Fornost is a pretty cool place. Not for shinies, but it has a neat atmosphere. It feels sorta authentic.

Mentioning that, I am reading the book currently.  This is literally the first time I have read a fictional book since around 1999 at latest... but that's not the point unless you are playing Yegolev: The Home Game.  What I find is that the game world is, well, pretty small and in some places just kinda weird, like Crickhollow being too close to everything.  Maybe even wrong but I'm going to have to check a couple of things if I remember to.  Can't be helped, I know; who the hell wants to take two days to ride from Bree to Forsaken Inn?  Compromises must be made.  There's just some contrast, is all I'm saying, and I'm going to just keep appreciating the game on its own merits rather than compare to the book(s).

That said, I still really like the Shire very much, and Hobbiton in particular.  Previously I think my least favorite was Midgewater, but they have very much improved the fog there, in my opinion, and it feels a lot better.  There is still a hard transition but while I'm in there it seems better.  Right now I think the Old Forest is at the bottom of my list because it just doesn't feel like a forest.

The Shire is my favorite zone in any MMO, ever.  I can just ride around that, doing nothing, and be relaxed.

[Yegolev]

About the mob rankings, it is true that I usually just notice if it is some sort of orange.  There are indeed multiple levels of eliteness.

[Tarami]

Working on getting to 29 or so this weekend. No more work, huzzah! If someone's in a generous mood, I'd love some help with two quests in Nan Wathren (the goblin isle in North Downs.) Pugging that is usually hell.

[Riggswolfe]

Well, guess it's time for my update:

Since last weekend I have gotten to the end of Book 14 in Volume 1. I'm still sitting on 2.5.5 in Volume 2.

I still haven't run any of the dungeons in Moria except 16th hall that one time. Right now the Epic questlines are more important to me, partly so I feel "caught up". I also still haven't tried any PvMP.

Oh, and on another note, I finally got my Morale a tick over 4k. I'm on the verge of getting a Sublime Dawn rose necklace which should put me around 4.2k. Unfortunately, bumping my Morale up has cost me about 20 points of might and I'm feeling it.

[Yegolev]

What class are you talking about?  Guardian?  I can't imagine choosing Morale over Agility with my hunter.

[rattran]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Seem to be taking too much damage to be an effective tank. No one in the pugs I've been in seemed to think anything was odd though.

Perhaps I just suck.

[Riggswolfe]

What class are you talking about?  Guardian?  I can't imagine choosing Morale over Agility with my hunter.

Champion. Champions have been going for morale builds lately partly due to the DPS nerfs and diminishing returns with a higher might.

[Tarami]

Trivia of the day... right now (5 PM EST), Brandywine as well over 2000 players online. If I can stay up I'll poll it later aswell. :)

[kildorn]

I started a little warden on brandywine. Kildanor!

The new legacy and deed system seems convoluted, and half the time I can't get my combat/skill deeds to display properly. *sigh* I'm actually hoping to get past 20 this time, though!

[Mrbloodworth]

The new legacy and deed system seems convoluted, and half the time I can't get my combat/skill deeds to display properly. *sigh* I'm actually hoping to get past 20 this time, though!

What do you mean?

[kildorn]

I hit deeds, and it'll only show kill deeds instead of skills half the time, and I can't find my skill deeds. Nor get an explanation of how I get some of the legacy ones from the class pages (some have little quest icons now, that's new after level 15 or something)

I played ages ago, when it first came out, and understood the system of traits and whatnot. Now I'm kind of foggy as to what these way of the ____ things are, and how to work them, or if I even need to worry about it yet. Plus I'm trying to figure out where to go at 16.

Don't worry, I'm just being **confused** because LOTRO always made me feel a little dizzy with options after you hit Bree.

[Mrbloodworth]

I hit deeds, and it'll only show kill deeds instead of skills half the time, and I can't find my skill deeds.

There are tabs along the top (Race class, Eriador , Rhovanion, Hobbies), and depending on what tab at the top your looking at, the little shield tab things at the bottom will show different zones (for the kill deeds).

Here is an older "Zone/Subzone by level map. Its somewhat old, but at a glance looks still correct... (Excluding missing zones and jank)

Right click to view full size.

[Tarami]

There are basically four kind of deeds; regional, racial, class and legendary.

Regional deeds give you Virtues. These deeds are done by completing quests, killing mobs or discovering locales in the zone they belong to. Virtues generally give you small stat buffs like Poison Resist and Might.

Racial deeds give you race-wide abilities. They're done by killing a (large) number of certain mob types that are specific to your race. Elves have Orcs and Drakes, for example, I believe. Racial deeds get your teleports to your home area (Rivendell in the case of Elves, Thorin's Hall for Dwarfs) and other special abilities. With exception for the teleport, they're most of the time useless.

Class deeds give you buffs to your class abilities. Most are gained by using a certain skill a number of times, while others are gained by successfully performing a certain reaction, like blocking. A few will be gained by doing class quests at 15/30/45/60. Class deeds do things like modify the number of targets for AoEs or increase damage for skills under certain conditions.

Legendary deeds are much like class deeds, but they're usually obtained through quest chains. They usually involve getting certain drops from world mobs and instance bosses. They are in general powerful and can change some pretty fundamental mechanisms of your class (like Lore-masters get to dual-wield staff and sword through equipping a legendary trait.)

Trait lines are new with Moria. Basically, they're set bonuses for having multiple class traits from the same set (red, blue, yellow.) If you equip five of one set, you unlock a capstone trait which is a legendary trait which is normally among the most powerful traits you have. You won't be getting these capstone traits until you're entering Moria, really.

[Ingmar]

The +20 to (stat your race has a big penalty to) traits seem useful to me...

I think the problem is likely that Kild missed the tabs on the bottom of the book.

Is there a particular character name or whatever I should be looking out for to get an invite on Brandywine? It is an actual F13-owned-and-operated guild, or is it a guild that just happens to be where y'all landed?

[Mrbloodworth]

The +20 to (stat your race has a big penalty to) traits seem useful to me...

I think the problem is likely that Kild missed the tabs on the bottom of the book.

Is there a particular character name or whatever I should be looking out for to get an invite on Brandywine? It is an actual F13-owned-and-operated guild, or is it a guild that just happens to be where y'all landed?

First, Check out this link. Second, Its not an f-13 guild, however our numbers all most outnumber any other group (such as randoms, or original long time members). Its our guild, but the guild is not operated by this forum.

Hope to see you soon!

[Ingmar]

Oh, hi2u sticky thread. 

[Tarami]

The +20 to (stat your race has a big penalty to) traits seem useful to me...

Only problem is that they're useful to about two classes each. An Elven guardian doesn't really need the Fate that's the racial buff. He will have it anyway since everything else is worse, but still.

[Riggswolfe]

Racial deeds give you race-wide abilities. They're done by killing a (large) number of certain mob types that are specific to your race. Elves have Orcs and Drakes, for example, I believe. Racial deeds get your teleports to your home area (Rivendell in the case of Elves, Thorin's Hall for Dwarfs) and other special abilities. With exception for the teleport, they're most of the time useless.

The most useful one is the man Strength of Morale that heals you for 2200-3000 morale. That's never been unequiped since I had it.

also, the ones that buff fellowship manuevers are nice.

[Yegolev]

I'm having trouble with Guardian. Seem to be taking too much damage to be an effective tank. No one in the pugs I've been in seemed to think anything was odd though.

Perhaps I just suck.

I would have to know what you are doing, what level and such... also I am really not the one to ask.  My guardian felt like a real tank after playing a hunter so much, but then I never played a tank in anything else except maybe WoW.  I just lead off with the defense-increasing attack and watch for blocks, throwing in a few other attack skills as they pop up and generally I'm good.  Against enemies weaker than me, I switch to a two-handed weapon and just watch for parries instead of blocks.  Also remember to use the correct stance for what you have equipped.  Wearing crafted armor helps a ton.

Edit to say what I have done.  Really not much other than work on my Cook, who is mostly a Farmer and ostensibly a Burglar.  Hobbit, of course.  I gave him two gold and so far have spent 1.1 gold to get him to Artisan Farmer and Artisan(?) Cook.  I am happy that I chose to be a burglar since the first Cook quest was to get an herb from Weathertop's summit.  With a bit of luck, I was able to get up there at level 9 and warp out with the goods.  The next one was danger-free, thankfully.  I think I will be able to get to the end of Tier 6 Farming with the money I have left, after which I will work on the Cookery again.  Maybe.