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f13.net  |  f13.net General Forums  |  General Discussion  |  Topic: "Tonight, Tonight" is the best song of the 90s. 0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
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Author Topic: "Tonight, Tonight" is the best song of the 90s.  (Read 144870 times)
stray
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Reply #175 on: November 24, 2008, 11:15:58 AM

One last thing, now that I think about it.. For me personally, the stuff that sticks with me the most about the 90's is how a few genres/styles all of the sudden got real catchy and groovy. And shit that was already groovy, like hip hop, started having an angry element to it. Not to say these were strictly 90's bands, but in metal for instance, White Zombie, Pantera, and Prong stick out to me. They hit their stride in the 90's. I don't want hear some fucking nitpicking about how Pantera started in the early 80's. Fuck you.  Oh ho ho ho. Reallllly? Welcome to Planet Motherfucker, Regular People, and Snap Your Fingers, Snap Your Neck were my favorite tracks from those bands. They were groovy.. Metal didn't really sound like that before them. Even Metallica had a groove going on in Sad But True.

Same goes for bands with punk and standard rock aesthetics. Nirvana just being one them. Soundgarden had groove, PJ did, RHCP had been doing it, RATM, etc, etc, etc

Trent Reznor emerged as the most popular industrial (and synth heavy) musician because he was both groovier and darker than everyone else.

On the flipside, hip hop already had the groove.. In the late 80's and 90's, they started adopting aggression. Probably starting with NWA. I was all about Cypress back then though.


This is probably way off the subject now, but that's what I dug about the 90's most.
Brogarn
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Reply #176 on: November 24, 2008, 11:20:04 AM

Fair enough.  What about Losing my religion? 

Losing my religion was REM's break into the mainstream.
Nebu
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Reply #177 on: November 24, 2008, 11:20:52 AM

Losing my religion was REM's break into the mainstream.

You may want to rethink that.  Document came YEARS earlier.

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Murgos
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Reply #178 on: November 24, 2008, 11:22:57 AM

None of those bands fit under the "opus" bit he mentions later in the thread. And Tonight Tonight was pretty much an opus on the early 90's "alternative" if you include everything schild mentions about production, video, etc. So while I like the bands you mention it's only this one song that truly fits all the categories. The song even sounds like an ending.

Except for November Rain.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Brogarn
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Reply #179 on: November 24, 2008, 11:25:16 AM

It was their biggest hit on their biggest album capturing their biggest audience. How exactly was it not their break into the mainstream?
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Reply #180 on: November 24, 2008, 11:26:33 AM

Except for November Rain.

Yes and no. Yes it was for GnR but not for Metal. Where Tonight Tonight was it for "alternative".
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Reply #181 on: November 24, 2008, 11:29:38 AM

It was their biggest hit on their biggest album capturing their biggest audience. How exactly was it not their break into the mainstream?

Definition really.  I'd argue that they were already mainstream and this album merely widened their appeal. I guess we're just splitting hairs.   

"Always do what is right. It will gratify half of mankind and astound the other."

-  Mark Twain
Murgos
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Reply #182 on: November 24, 2008, 11:36:08 AM

Except for November Rain.

Yes and no. Yes it was for GnR but not for Metal. Where Tonight Tonight was it for "alternative".

No, Under the Bridge was it for 'alternative'.  Under the Bridge hit #2 on the Billboard 100 and Tonight, Tonight never even made the top 20.

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
stray
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Reply #183 on: November 24, 2008, 11:37:47 AM

November Rain sucks. Any song titled as such, or that sounds that way, really shouldn't have much relevance to people's lives.

That was a problem for bands like them in general. They sang about stupid, bombastic shit (to be fair, G'n'R was probably the least guilty of that out of LA/cockrock bands..).
Brogarn
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Reply #184 on: November 24, 2008, 11:41:45 AM

Definition really.  I'd argue that they were already mainstream and this album merely widened their appeal. I guess we're just splitting hairs.   

I'd call what they had before it "popularity" and that it wasn't until after Losing My Religion's odd but catchy mandolin and interesting lyrics that they caught real mainstream attention. That and MTVs heavy rotation of the video.

But you're right. Hair splitting. I still don't call that an end but rather a beginning and I also think that REM is bigger than a genre (like U2) where Smashing Pumpkins were very much of their genre.
Brogarn
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Reply #185 on: November 24, 2008, 11:44:14 AM

No, Under the Bridge was it for 'alternative'.  Under the Bridge hit #2 on the Billboard 100 and Tonight, Tonight never even made the top 20.

RHCP are hard to define. They're in their own category and don't represent the early 90's alternative, in my opinion. They also continue to make popular music. Besides, Under the Bridge was in the middle of that time period, not the end of it.
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Reply #186 on: November 24, 2008, 06:02:28 PM

I fucking hate you people who are actually trying to play by Schild's rules, you must be new, retarded, or both.  It is making for a somewhat interesting read though thru 6 pgs so I forgive you.

A nation consists of its laws. A nation does not consist of its situation at a given time. If an individual's morals are situational, then that individual is without morals. If a nation's laws are situational, that nation has no laws, and soon isn't a nation.
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Reply #187 on: November 24, 2008, 06:22:02 PM

I fucking hate you people who are actually trying to play by Schild's rules, you must be new, retarded, or both.  It is making for a somewhat interesting read though thru 6 pgs so I forgive you.

Don't shit on me because you compulsively click on every thread. That's my job: Shitting on people because *I* have to click on every thread. awesome, for real
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 06:23:36 PM by schild »
Grand Design
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Reply #188 on: November 24, 2008, 08:00:48 PM

Tonight, Tonight is a ridiculously bombastic piece of shit and I anxiously await schild's announcement that this thread was the result of a lost bet.

Now, I will actually go watch it again to confirm his sense of humor or lack of taste.
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Reply #189 on: November 24, 2008, 08:10:49 PM

Tonight, Tonight is a ridiculously bombastic piece of shit and I anxiously await schild's announcement that this thread was the result of a lost bet.

Now, I will actually go watch it again to confirm his sense of humor or lack of taste.
I'm just waiting for someone to suggest something else from an artist that actually refutes the Tonight, Tonight call. Neither me nor Phildo really have any care for that song in the long term, it's just sorta, well, what it is. November Rain is a good one but it's far from representative of the actual aimlessness of the 90s. Smells Like Teen Spirit is an obvious call that really didn't have great production, had a shit video and supported a drug habit for a disaster of a man - great, it influenced kids, what a great role model. Too bad it's about as much fun to listen to as putting bones in a blender.
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Reply #190 on: November 24, 2008, 08:20:17 PM

Pixies - "All"

(I think it was the Pixies.)

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
Grand Design
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Reply #191 on: November 24, 2008, 08:26:34 PM

@schild - football is on, damnit, I'm busy.

You cannot judge a piece of music based on a video.  Your requirements completely invalidate the experiment.

You also cannot submit a song that requires the band to hang up their instruments and rely almost entirely on an orchestra. 

Maybe I need to face up to the fact that people now judge music based on videos and post production.  This is fucking sad, and stop promoting it.


Or this was all a joke?  Plz?
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Reply #192 on: November 24, 2008, 08:34:35 PM

Quote
You cannot judge a piece of music based on a video.  Your requirements completely invalidate the experiment.

Counterpoints:

Bjork - It's Oh So Quiet
Fatboy Slim - Weapon of Choice
Dirty Vegas - Days go By
Michael Jackson - Thriller

etc. etc.

If those videos didn't make decent songs fucking amazing, I don't know what did. Edit: Also, I'm not judging based on the video, as shown below. Those things merely increase their value to music as a cultural thing.
Quote
Or this was all a joke?  Plz?

It wasn't. I'm not judging based on post production or video - I'm judging based on the total package. Most folks can't bring that package together, some can, like Bjork or Gnarls Barkley, or in this case, Smashing Pumpkins. Nirvana could never bring it all together even a little. Michael Jackson could. The proof is in the pudding. Or rather, in recordings.

Also, the band's instruments all play key roles in the song, they just had an incredibly excellent strings section accompanying them. Are you gonna knock Crazy because Gnarls Barkley decided to add a full orchestra? Really? Do you want to go down that route?
« Last Edit: November 24, 2008, 08:36:10 PM by schild »
Nevermore
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Reply #193 on: November 24, 2008, 08:40:09 PM

Pixies - "All"

(I think it was the Pixies.)

Pixies didn't do a song called "All', unless it was some obscure b-side.

Over and out.
Grand Design
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Reply #194 on: November 24, 2008, 08:48:21 PM

For the record, schild has just admitted that Tonight, Tonight is possibly a mediocre song with a good video.  I deny both. 

I'm judging based on the total package.

I understand that, and it bothers me.  Five hundred years of music and barely three decades of 'videos' do not invalidate one in favor of the other.  What if we judged Beethoven's ninth symphony on the shit-ass video that Alan Smithee made for it?  Fuck, he did his best and Beethoven is now forgotten.  Thanks.
Grand Design
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Reply #195 on: November 24, 2008, 08:50:23 PM

And Thriller is fucking great without the video!
Grand Design
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Reply #196 on: November 24, 2008, 09:20:40 PM

I'll play by the rules.  Closer is not a good candidate because it is a mediocre song with a fantastic video.

I submit March of the Pigs.

The video and lyrics are pure control and contradiction.  With a right proper message.
stray
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Reply #197 on: November 24, 2008, 09:44:00 PM

That damn Alan Smithee. Procurator of shit. Didn't know he fucked up Ludwig too.
Lantyssa
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Reply #198 on: November 24, 2008, 09:50:32 PM

Pixies didn't do a song called "All', unless it was some obscure b-side.
It was a b-side, whomever it was, and it was literally them shouting, "All".

The reason I think it was the Pixies is because my roomie played them so much I couldn't listen to one of their songs without cringing, and I associate it with that period.  I suppose I could ask him.  *shrug*

Hahahaha!  I'm really good at this!
stray
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Reply #199 on: November 24, 2008, 09:51:07 PM

Yeah, I didn't quite realize what an emphasis there needed to be with the whole video thing.

In that case, Britney. Hands down. I swear.
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Reply #200 on: November 24, 2008, 10:03:56 PM

For the record, schild has just admitted that Tonight, Tonight is possibly a mediocre song with a good video.  I deny both. 

I'm judging based on the total package.

I understand that, and it bothers me.  Five hundred years of music and barely three decades of 'videos' do not invalidate one in favor of the other.  What if we judged Beethoven's ninth symphony on the shit-ass video that Alan Smithee made for it?  Fuck, he did his best and Beethoven is now forgotten.  Thanks.

For the record, I had already said before Tonight, Tonight should optimally be consumed in video form. Second, we're just talking about the 90s, not the 49 other decades you just mentioned. ;_;
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Reply #201 on: November 24, 2008, 10:04:40 PM

Quote
I'll play by the rules.  Closer is not a good candidate because it is a mediocre song with a fantastic video.

I submit March of the Pigs.

The video and lyrics are pure control and contradiction.  With a right proper message.

God bless March of the Pigs, it's my favorite personal NIN song, but really, NIN? awesome, for real
Engels
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Reply #202 on: November 24, 2008, 10:22:31 PM

Can someone tell me why Beck's Loser doesn't meet the criteria (other than not having a strings section, which seems an entirely random requirement)

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Reply #203 on: November 24, 2008, 10:33:35 PM

Can someone tell me why Beck's Loser doesn't meet the criteria (other than not having a strings section, which seems an entirely random requirement)

I asked Phil. Here's the conversation.

Me: "Hey, someone's asking why Beck's Loser doesn't fit the requirements."

Phildo: "I don't know, why doesn't it?"

Me: "We didn't think about it?"

Phildo: "Exactly."
Engels
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Reply #204 on: November 24, 2008, 10:43:38 PM

Somehow this game feels a bit rigged  Head scratch

I should get back to nature, too.  You know, like going to a shop for groceries instead of the computer.  Maybe a condo in the woods that doesn't even have a health club or restaurant attached.  Buy a car with only two cup holders or something. -Signe

I LIKE being bounced around by Tonkors. - Lantyssa

Babies shooting themselves in the head is the state bird of West Virginia. - schild
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Reply #205 on: November 24, 2008, 10:49:25 PM

Somehow this game feels a bit rigged  Head scratch

Well, it's obviously not scientific. But it's a pretty solid argument. I mean, we reached pretty hard on that original list - That Thing You Do? Kiss From a Rose? Just saying, it's not like we purposefully left stuff out. Also, we started with the 80s, but it took all of about 6 seconds to come up with Thriller.

The second best I can think of, honestly at this point, is Madonna. But we sort of ruled her out as a lot of her stuff came out in the early 90s and had a distinctively 80s feel and was probably originally conceived in the late 80s. Vogue is a force to be reckoned with though and The Immaculate Collection would probably be in my top 25 albums ever.
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Reply #206 on: November 24, 2008, 11:05:33 PM

The video for 'Loser' wasn't anything special.

Vogue probably is the one I would say, people still strike a pose.

If you want something with a bit of indie cred to feel good about it then Radiohead beats Smashing Pumpkins on any definable scale. 

All the other overhyped big songs I can think of had movie tie-ins which seemed to increase the whole spectacle, Whitney Houston, Celine Dion, err 'All for love' by Sting and those other guys so I don't know whether they qualify, but they where huge and a had multimedia presence.
Grand Design
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Reply #207 on: November 25, 2008, 04:55:23 AM

Schild said, "We didn't think about it" is a solid argument.  It is neither solid nor an argument.  This thread is like the Nuremberg trial for Bad Music. 


"And Dr. Goebbels, can you explain why you claimed that "Hit Me Baby, One More Time" was the greatest song produced in the 90s?"

"Vell, zere iz ze young lady, and ze catolic skool girl outifit and ze seductive lyrics... ze gyrating and groaning..."

"But, Dr. Goebbels, Ace of Base's "Don't Turn Around" is a demonstrably superior piece of music!  How can you deny this?!"

...

"Ve didn't think about it?"
Murgos
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Reply #208 on: November 25, 2008, 06:01:08 AM

6 pages to Godwin?

Good job all, someone hit the lights we're done here.  why so serious?

"You have all recieved youre last warning. I am in the process of currently tracking all of youre ips and pinging your home adressess. you should not have commencemed a war with me" - Aaron Rayburn
Ozzu
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Reply #209 on: November 25, 2008, 06:15:03 AM

Ooh. Two months into the 90s:

Depeche Mode - Enjoy the Silence http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQtzOOz6Y6c
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