Lost [FINALE SPOILERS PAGE 25 ONWARDS]

[Rendakor]

I'm also doing a big rewatch, a few episodes into Season 4. Am I the only one who finds S4 the worst of the series?

[tazelbain]

4 > 5 > 3 > 2 > 1
Hopefully Lost learned from Sopranos and BSG, so no ambiguous or magic-wand ending. 

[Teleku]

I'm also doing a big rewatch, a few episodes into Season 4. Am I the only one who finds S4 the worst of the series?

I thought season 4 was excellent.  I've enjoyed the show its whole run though.  I'd say season 3 was the weakest as they were throwing out tons of filler.  Once they got the ok to do exactly 3 more seasons though, the series has been top notch.

[Jobu]

So we're spoilering things that happened at the end of season 5?

[Quinton]

The first chunk of season three (with the polar bear cages, surgery on ben, etc) was the low point of the series for me (though some people seem to hate the middle of season 2 with the talies more).  Season four and five were a lot of fun.

I'd say season 3 was the weakest as they were throwing out tons of filler.  Once they got the ok to do exactly 3 more seasons though, the series has been top notch.

Total agreement.  Having an end in sight seems to have resulted in things really tightening up.  S3 felt like they were floundering around and then they pulled shit together for the end and it's been steady sailing from then on.

[Draegan]

I hated the flash forwards of the Oceanic 6.  So irritating.  Season 3 was pretty good I thought.

[Ozzu]

Well, the premier was good.

[Paelos]

Well, the premier was good.

Best line of the episode, "I'm not a What, I'm a Who."

We're heading into something I had feared in the back of my mind. They are going to go to the epic showdown of good and evil. My guess is they twist which side is which.

[Ozzu]

Best line of the episode, "I'm not a What, I'm a Who."

We're heading into something I had feared in the back of my mind. They are going to go to the epic showdown of good and evil. My guess is they twist which side is which.

It appears that's the way it's heading. It seems pretty black and white (ha) which is good and which is bad at this point, but it's almost too convenient at this point. We'll see.

Oh and we got a pretty big reveal and now know exactly what the smoke monster is.

[Draegan]

Sayid is Jacob reincarnated.

The LAX timeline is different than "real life". Several characters are different including Desmond being there, Shannon NOT being there and Charlie trying to kill himself saying "he was supposed to die."

You will see Man in Black vs. Jacob all season long.

The Temple People are just other "others". You saw the stewardess and you saw the two kids that got nabbed in season 2 from the tail of the plain now grown up a little more.

I can't remember any of the other tidbits I picked up.

I like the recognition of the Man in Black in Locke's body to Richard.  "Oh you look good out of chains." and Richard replying with "it's you".

Interesting stuff.

[Teleku]

Awesome episodes.  It was nice of them to confirm right off that Man in Black was the smoke monster, which the end of season 5 seemed to hint at.  I'm also thrilled that they showed there are in fact "other" others.  I had that theory ever since season two.  Vindicated!

I wouldn't really say though that it looks like a stark battle of good vs. evil.  Man in Black is obviously a manipulative dick, but he just wants off the island (god knows how long him and Jacob have been trapped there).  He has the power to kill all those people, but didn't.  He offered to let the other guys go before they shot him.  He wants what he wants, and will do all he can to get it, but I wouldn't really call him a straight on evil evil bad guy.  At least from what we've seen so far.

However, the smoke monster does bring up some questions though.  Like why they were calling it a security system before, and why (going along with that) Ben was able to summon it to defend against the Mercs.  Seems odd that Ben could "summon" the man in black.  Perhaps theres an automated smoke monster, and then Man in Black can also take on a smoke monster form?

Looking forward to them explaining what happened to the French guys who went into the temple, and subsequently "got sick".  They went in because the guy who's arm got ripped off yelled he was OK and to come in.  But of course we just found his corpse sitting down there.

I have no idea where they will go with the flash to parallel time line thing.

[Rishathra]

Man in Black is obviously a manipulative dick, but he just wants off the island (god knows how long him and Jacob have been trapped there). 

[Quinton]

Off to a good start.  I like the diverging timelines thing -- will be fun to see how these affect / interact / whatever with each other.

Notice that Desmond was on the plane until Jack revived Charlie... and then he was gone.  Guess their fates are intertwined there as well as in the original timeline. 

I suppose we have three major timelines now -- the original 2004 that we followed during the first four seasons (for the most part), the new 2004 where 815 doesn't crash on the island, and the 2007 timeline where Jacob dies and we see the temple.

Has unLocke (aka the MIB) always been the smoke monster?  Or is the smoke monster a form Jacob can take as well?  Or something else entirely?  unLocke seemed surprised to learn that unAlex threatened to destroy Ben if he didn't follow Locke at the end of Season 5.  Or maybe he was just being extra devious.  One wonders.

Did Locke actually go on his walkabout in the new timeline or did he lie to Boone?

[Merusk]

Did Locke actually go on his walkabout in the new timeline or did he lie to Boone?

In the new timeline things are going much better for everyone.  I believe what we're seeing is how their lives would have worked-out, had Jacob and MIB not interfered with them at key points in their lives.   Hurley still has his chicken franchise and is "the luckiest guy in the world" and Locke seemed genuine about his walkabout.

Was a bit of a trip seeing all these old cast members show up, though.

[Ozzu]

In the new timeline things are going much better for everyone.  I believe what we're seeing is how their lives would have worked-out, had Jacob and MIB not interfered with them at key points in their lives.   Hurley still has his chicken franchise and is "the luckiest guy in the world" and Locke seemed genuine about his walkabout.

Was a bit of a trip seeing all these old cast members show up, though.

I'm not sure on that. Doesn't Jacob bring Locke back to life after he gets pushed out of the window and breaks his back? If he's not there to bring him back to life, wouldn't Locke die right there?

Edit: My wife says Jacob was just there. He didn't have anything to do with Locke waking up after the fall. So, hell if I know.

[Draegan]

Man in Black is obviously a manipulative dick, but he just wants off the island (god knows how long him and Jacob have been trapped there).  

I agree with your spoiler.  That's how I took everything.

I suppose we have three major timelines now -- the original 2004 that we followed during the first four seasons (for the most part), the new 2004 where 815 doesn't crash on the island, and the 2007 timeline where Jacob dies and we see the temple.

There are two timelines now.  The "it never happened" timeline and and the current day one (2008).  The 1977 guys were kicked back into the same timeline as the rest of the crew.  You know this because when the Temple Others set off the fireworks, Richard saw it at the beach.

I'm not sure on that. Doesn't Jacob bring Locke back to life after he gets pushed out of the window and breaks his back? If he's not there to bring him back to life, wouldn't Locke die right there?

Edit: My wife says Jacob was just there. He didn't have anything to do with Locke waking up after the fall. So, hell if I know.

Jacob knelt down and touched him or something when he hit the ground.  That was from Season 5.  I think with the island blowing up you are seeing the effects of people without the influence of "Fate" and "Free Will" in their lives.  I think we might find out that Locke hurt his back a different way, not by being pushed out the window.

--

Another thing I just read is that when the stewardess handed Jack more booze on the plane before the turbulance, this time it was only 1 bottle.  In season 1 it was two, one he drank and one he put in his pocket which he used as a disinfectant in the pilot episode when he stitched himself up.

[Samwise]

IMDB is not helping me -- does anyone know the name of the actor that played the "translator"?  He looked really familiar and I think he might have been the guy who "translated" for Utah Johnny Montana the same way in that one Brisco County episode.  If so, that's fucking awesome.

[Johny Cee]

IMDB is not helping me -- does anyone know the name of the actor that played the "translator"?  He looked really familiar and I think he might have been the guy who "translated" for Utah Johnny Montana the same way in that one Brisco County episode.  If so, that's fucking awesome.

The actor is John Hawkes, who played Sol Starr on Deadwood....   Bullock's partner in the general store and Trixie's love interest. 

[HaemishM]

Much awesome in that episode.

[tazelbain]

She said, "I have a new show. I am outta here, bitches."

[Draegan]

Much awesome in that episode.

Man in Black doesn't want off the island.  His home is the island, he doesn't want anyone else on it.  My guess his home is the temple that he's being kept out of?

My guess.

I think the two timelines are not going on at the same time so that the guy can jump between them.  I think you're seeing a timeline of what happens after this season is done.  Somewhere at the end of season 6 the Losties will do something to change the past.  What you're seeing now is that story, but at the same time as everything plays out.  It's this season's "flashback".

[Samwise]

IMDB is not helping me -- does anyone know the name of the actor that played the "translator"?  He looked really familiar and I think he might have been the guy who "translated" for Utah Johnny Montana the same way in that one Brisco County episode.  If so, that's fucking awesome.

The actor is John Hawkes, who played Sol Starr on Deadwood....   Bullock's partner in the general store and Trixie's love interest.  

Thank you; it is indeed the same guy.  In the Brisco episode he was a mute gunslinger's sidekick and his job was to do all his talking.  Pretty awesome that he has the exact same role again.

[Johny Cee]

IMDB is not helping me -- does anyone know the name of the actor that played the "translator"?  He looked really familiar and I think he might have been the guy who "translated" for Utah Johnny Montana the same way in that one Brisco County episode.  If so, that's fucking awesome.

The actor is John Hawkes, who played Sol Starr on Deadwood....   Bullock's partner in the general store and Trixie's love interest.  

Thank you; it is indeed the same guy.  In the Brisco episode he was a mute gunslinger's sidekick and his job was to do all his talking.  Pretty awesome that he has the exact same role again.

One of the things Lost does better than any other show is casting fun and interesting actors in minor parts. 
- Lt. Daniels from the Wire as Abaddon
- Andrea Roth (Rescue Me) as an Other
- Mac from It's Always Sunny as an Other
- Wayne Pygram (Scorpius in Farscape, young Grand Moff Tarkin in Star Wars) as random faith healer guy
- The Dharma torturer is Larry from Newhart (WB Farnsworth in Deadwood, and Joker's henchman in the original Batman, etc)

The Whitmore character has always seemed to me to be a part they wrote for Malcolm McDowell.  There are just a ton of "hey, it's that guy!" moments that are really fun in Lost.

[Arthur_Parker]

One of the things Lost does better than any other show is casting fun and interesting actors in minor parts.  

I expect lost, ultimately to turn out to be a waste of time but I do like the fact that Kimberley Joseph appeared in the first few seconds of the pilot episode and then disappeared for ages .  I recognised her straight away from her major role in cold feet and was constantly thinking wtf was she doing in such a minor role.

[Lucas]

The Whitmore character has always seemed to me to be a part they wrote for Malcolm McDowell.  There are just a ton of "hey, it's that guy!" moments that are really fun in Lost.

Widmore :).

Anyways, that's probably because of the emphatic, slow way both Alan Dale and Admiral Tolwyn Malcom McDowell spell out their lines, heritage of their great theatre experience.

Infact, as far as pure acting goes, in my opinion, Michael Emerson (Ben, the actor himself worked a lot in theatres) and Alan Dale (Charles Widmore) are the two best actors in Lost together with Terry O'Quinn, hands down.

[Teleku]

Much awesome in that episode.

I wouldn't count Juliet out.  When she first saw Sawyer, she thought she was in a Coffee shop, and she new it worked.  So I think we are going to run into her in the alternate timeline, and she's going to flash back and forth like Desmond was.

Also, is it really necessary to spoiler anything?  Everybody is discussing the show here.  I'd assume anybody who doesn't want to be spoiler-ed about season 6 wouldn't come reading this.

[KallDrexx]

Am I the only one who thought that Jack was conscious of the fact that he went from the island back to the plane?  It wasn't until he made it clear that he didn't previously know Locke that I realized he was just staring at everyone in confusion.  But everytime Jack looked at the black woman (my mind is going blank on her name sorry), Desmond, Kate, etc.. they made him look like he recognized them.  That threw me off for a while.

[Abagadro]

Her name is Rose.  To me it seemed like he was having more of a deja vu type "do I know that person?" thing rather than a conscious recollection.

[HaemishM]

It's the deja vu. I don't think he yet realizes that things aren't as they should be yet.

[Arthur_Parker]

Am I the only one who thought that Jack was conscious of the fact that he went from the island back to the plane?  It wasn't until he made it clear that he didn't previously know Locke that I realized he was just staring at everyone in confusion.  But everytime Jack looked at the black woman (my mind is going blank on her name sorry), Desmond, Kate, etc.. they made him look like he recognized them.  That threw me off for a while.

I might be wrong but didn't Jack meet Desmond before the island in a stadium somewhere during one of the old pre time travelling flashbacks, when Desmond called him brother, something to do with his wife.  I thought it was him part remembering that.

[Teleku]

Yeah, Jack recognized him from the football stadium when they first met on the island (and he said brother).  I'm not sure if the fact that he doesn't recognize him on the plane means they never met like that in this timeline, or the writers got lazy and forgot that if Jack could recognize him in the hatch with a gun pointed at him, he'd probably easily be able to do so on the plane.

[Mrbloodworth]

Am I the only one who thought that Jack was conscious of the fact that he went from the island back to the plane?  It wasn't until he made it clear that he didn't previously know Locke that I realized he was just staring at everyone in confusion.  But everytime Jack looked at the black woman (my mind is going blank on her name sorry), Desmond, Kate, etc.. they made him look like he recognized them.  That threw me off for a while.

I might be wrong but didn't Jack meet Desmond before the island in a stadium somewhere during one of the old pre time travelling flashbacks, when Desmond called him brother, something to do with his wife.  I thought it was him part remembering that.

The only thing that threw me, Desmond was never on the plane, he was in the hatch at that point, well after his meeting with jack, and well before they even got to the island.

[Abagadro]

The island was underwater so Desmond could not have landed his boat there.

[Mrbloodworth]

The island was underwater so Desmond could not have landed his boat there.

Yes, but all of his story, all of it, was invalidated, AND he was on the plane.

ALL of it, meeting Lilly, getting the boat, all the penny stuff, her father stuff, meeting jack in the amphitheater (He did not know him on the plane), years of back-story (pre/post hatch or otherwise).... And he is on the plane? I have a feeling that the entire plane thread, is not real. At all. Everyone else essentially picked up where they left off..... Desmond is rewritten, unstuck, out of time, paradox.

 

At least, in my recollection of all past events.

[HaemishM]

You are correct. There is no way that Desmond could be on that plane at that time - except that he never went to the island and we know he was in Australia before Jack got on the plane. If the island doesn't exist, he doesn't crash Widmore's boat on the island, and maybe he doesn't meet Jack before they get on the plane. Remember what he said to Jack when they met in Australia - "See you in another life, brother."

This is that other life.