Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Riggswolfe]

The manufactured drama they are going to probably milk the whole season is going to drive me nuts.

They only have 6 episodes and we know one of them is nothing but one long battle. Probably another one will be as well. They don't have time to milk drama this season. It's a nice benefit of a shortened season like this. They have to be economical with their storytelling. For example, in prior seasons it'd have been 2-3 episodes minimum before Sam talked to Jon about his real parents. This one got it out of the way in the first episode. I guarantee next episode will deal with the Jaime drama and Dany will find out who Jom really is. Probably by Episode 4 they'll have resolved it one way or the other and it'll only be that long because Episode 3 is the batlle for Winterfell.

[Cyrrex]

Importantly, I jumped out to a nice lead in the Fantasy League, mostly due, I think, to Beric simply igniting his sword.  And Bronn getting laid.

[eldaec]

The only thing that seemed manufactured to me was Bronn's thing.

[Cyrrex]

Manufactured how?  That's basically Bronn in a nutshell.

[eldaec]

Bronn's reaction was fine, and it is the logical end point for his character to get to. But cersei hiring him was a stretch for me. Also Cersei not being in the scene because... er... reasons... kind of stood out.

And that enormous crossbow.

It was a great episode though.

[eldaec]

The manufactured drama they are going to probably milk the whole season is going to drive me nuts.

They only have 6 episodes and we know one of them is nothing but one long battle. Probably another one will be as well. They don't have time to milk drama this season. It's a nice benefit of a shortened season like this. They have to be economical with their storytelling. For example, in prior seasons it'd have been 2-3 episodes minimum before Sam talked to Jon about his real parents. This one got it out of the way in the first episode. I guarantee next episode will deal with the Jaime drama and Dany will find out who Jom really is. Probably by Episode 4 they'll have resolved it one way or the other and it'll only be that long because Episode 3 is the batlle for Winterfell.

This episode made it feel like they have a structure and story that is within their abilities as writers. Last three years haven't seemed like that.

They must fucking love Bran.

Instant convincing way to shut down a rabbit hole.

And the way he dealt with Sam was great. "Sort your shit, do it now".

There are few enough hours left and the cast is good enough that it seems they can carry it. The Sansa/Jon/Arya stuff was like watching season 1 all over again.

At least until we get to episodes the show runners decide to direct.

[Khaldun]

It felt like a checklist rather than a story. And the amount of time devoted to some things seemed weak; Sam telling Jon should have been a major climax point for the episode but instead it felt like just another thing to get done and move on from.

The food supply scene could also have been more interesting--essentially Winterfell would have to be abandoned after this anyway, but on the other hand Jon could have replied that the dead will be there pretty soon so who cares, everything will be done one way or the other within a few days, in all likelihood. I guess we learned where the next stage of the war is going to happen anyway with Yara's exposition about the Iron Islands (which explains also how Euron will come into play--I'm guessing this is a plot element that's straight from Martin's notes, since it explains why the Iron Islands continues to be important in the books well past the point where you'd think they matter.)  I wouldn't be surprised if the dead stop pursuing the remnants of the Winterfell armies retreating to the Iron Islands in order to head for King's Landing and the Golden Company, which will be a sort of "told you so" to Cersei.

[Threash]

It was almost scene by scene a remake or nod to the first episode of the first season.

[calapine]

*slurps wine, watches first episode*

I'd just like to say the show went downhill after Tywinn died. (Who was like the perfect Daddy......)

And Cersei is the most relateable main character. (Mean that, and tot saying that to be edgy)

[Khaldun]

She has the most interesting arc. Slowly but surely the norm of making heroic characters more heroic has infiltrated the show. They were still willing to make Jon be kind of dumb in Battle of the Bastards (and maybe now) but many other complicated people have gotten less complicated. Tyrion has lost all his edge--he's entirely Daddy Knows Best now, despite having been a shitty advisor to Danerys in Meereen and in Westeros, for the most part. Varys doesn't seem to be plotting or scheming any more. The Hound is tamed. Etc. I get it--it's a function of everyone BUT Cersei being able to see the plain truth of it, that they are facing a different kind of enemy and that if they don't put aside everything, no one wins or survives. But you know, when has that actually happened? Even when a threat is overwhelming and unity is required to have any hope, real human beings generally do not put aside grudges and ambitions and willful blindness about the situation. I wish at least a few of the major surviving characters were still playing out arcs that run counter to "fight together or die" besides Cersei and Euron.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Seems like Sansa isn't fully sold on team ice & fire.

[HaemishM]

There's plenty of opportunity for drama now that Jon is a potential challenger to Dany's claim to the throne, once the throne is secure.

[IainC]

There's plenty of opportunity for drama now that Jon is a potential challenger to Dany's claim to the throne, once the throne is secure.

Never mind once the throne is secure, there's plenty of reason for Jon to make his claim now in order to bring the houses of the North - and his own sister - back on board.

[HaemishM]

But then how will he continue to get that sweet, sweet aunt loving? 

[Threash]

There's plenty of opportunity for drama now that Jon is a potential challenger to Dany's claim to the throne, once the throne is secure.

Never mind once the throne is secure, there's plenty of reason for Jon to make his claim now in order to bring the houses of the North - and his own sister - back on board.

And I'm sure the unsullied dothraki and the freaking dragons are just going to be a-ok with that...

[Speedy Cerviche]

And I'm sure the unsullied dothraki and the freaking dragons are just going to be a-ok with that...

Them being the generic CGI armies nobody cares about, I doubt many will still be standing in a couple of episodes.

[Cyrrex]

But then how will he continue to get that sweet, sweet aunt loving? 

You jest, but I have long held the belief that one of the underlying themes of this show is basically the different outcomes of incestual relationships and how Martin is fascinated by the subject for some reason.  Like, all the Targaryens did it.  And look who is now also a Targaryen, why it is none other than Jon Snow.

[calapine]

She has the most interesting arc. Slowly but surely the norm of making heroic characters more heroic has infiltrated the show. They were still willing to make Jon be kind of dumb in Battle of the Bastards (and maybe now) but many other complicated people have gotten less complicated. Tyrion has lost all his edge--he's entirely Daddy Knows Best now, despite having been a shitty advisor to Danerys in Meereen and in Westeros, for the most part. Varys doesn't seem to be plotting or scheming any more. The Hound is tamed. Etc. I get it--it's a function of everyone BUT Cersei being able to see the plain truth of it, that they are facing a different kind of enemy and that if they don't put aside everything, no one wins or survives. But you know, when has that actually happened? Even when a threat is overwhelming and unity is required to have any hope, real human beings generally do not put aside grudges and ambitions and willful blindness about the situation. I wish at least a few of the major surviving characters were still playing out arcs that run counter to "fight together or die" besides Cersei and Euron.

Thank you for the response (really!).

And that's a good point. While Cersei definitively started out as a cliche she developed nuance while the "heros" have become more cardboard.

And while I wouldn't use the word "subtle" to describe Cersei, her motivations and the wrongs that shaped her are still more down to earth than those of the male (Tyrion) and female (Danersys) Mary Sues.
The one whose being a dwarf is made a plot point again and again so we the viewers get it that he is treated unjust. The other who is literally whored out by her brother at the start so we the viewers get it that that there is some abuse, power dynamics, feminism subtext going on.

Compared to that Cerseis situations of growing up in what looks a superficially privileged situation while in reality being locked in (while at the same time using/abusing) the gender role society prescribes her, is positively subtle. I can see some analogies to myself as for a long time I was locked in the role "woman with history of mental health problems" while also learning how to leverage that to my advantage. (Which was self-defeating because it cemented me even more into that role.) (Being probably waaaay to honest here for this being an open forum, but whatever.)


To close on a polemical note: What do you get if you teleport the average F13-politics-forum poster to Westeros? Probably not a monster like Joffrey but also no Rob Stark. More likely a Littlefinger-wannabe with half the psychopathy and a quarter of the cunning of the original. coughspeedycough.

Which also describes Cersei perfectly. So basically we are all little Cerseis!

[Threash]

Fuck Cersei for that fucking "You want a whore, buy one. You want a queen, earn her" line that every annoying girl is going to be using for the next few months completely ignoring the fact that the "queen" gave it up less than a minute later.

[calapine]

Fuck Cersei for that fucking "You want a whore, buy one. You want a queen, earn her" line that every annoying girl is going to be using for the next few months completely ignoring the fact that the "queen" gave it up less than a minute later.

And after the deed she felt bad about it. So real it hurts.  

[calapine]

I really like this hot take:



The mountain as a big silent friend. Someone who listens patiently to your problems and crushes the skulls of anyone being mean to you. Disturbingly adorable.  

[Riggswolfe]

She has the most interesting arc. Slowly but surely the norm of making heroic characters more heroic has infiltrated the show. They were still willing to make Jon be kind of dumb in Battle of the Bastards (and maybe now) but many other complicated people have gotten less complicated. Tyrion has lost all his edge--he's entirely Daddy Knows Best now, despite having been a shitty advisor to Danerys in Meereen and in Westeros, for the most part. Varys doesn't seem to be plotting or scheming any more. The Hound is tamed. Etc. I get it--it's a function of everyone BUT Cersei being able to see the plain truth of it, that they are facing a different kind of enemy and that if they don't put aside everything, no one wins or survives. But you know, when has that actually happened? Even when a threat is overwhelming and unity is required to have any hope, real human beings generally do not put aside grudges and ambitions and willful blindness about the situation. I wish at least a few of the major surviving characters were still playing out arcs that run counter to "fight together or die" besides Cersei and Euron.

I have to wonder if we're watching the same show.

Tyrion's entire character arc has become a subversion. He was once the smartest person in the room, now he is totally out of his depth and screwing up constantly. Sansa literally calls him out on this. "I used to think you were the most clever man in the world."
Varys is very much plotting and scheming. We saw it in action in this first episode and I think he may be doing some offscreen scheming, possibly with Tyrion who seems much more susceptible to manipulation than he used to be.
The Hound isn't tamed. He had a spiritual rebirth and symbolically gave up being the Hound when Arya left him on that mountain-side.  This is more clear in the books than it is in the show but it's pretty clear in the show too. I guess you can say he is tamed because he's not killing as many people but the entire speech from Ian McShane's character was about that very thing. "It's never too late to change."
Jon, well, Jon is basically who he has always been. He's an  honorable idiot like Ned and is incredibly brave. He's really the most Stark-like of the surviving Starks and my number one choice not to survive this season because of it.

As for Cersei and Euron. They're being utter morons which isn't out of character for Cersei. She always thinks she is the smartest person in the area and she's not. Her hubris almost always comes back to bite her in the ass and in this case it might just bite all of King's Landing. I think your comments about wishing more people would act out arcs that run counter to "fight together or die" doesn't really apply against this kind of threat. This isn't some distant, far off threat like, say, climate change. This is more akin to World War 2. At the end of the day, even Russia helped us invade Berlin. They didn't do it out of the goodness of their hearts, they did it because Hitler was a threat and he'd attacked them.

Also, we are seeing some of what you're asking for. Sansa is clearly not happy with Dany being there. The Northern lords as a whole are restless about it. I get the sense Jon is just barely holding everyone together in this little alliance of his and I think the one family refusing the call to banners and the loss of the Umbers is supposed to show us just how fragile this all is.

[calapine]

Hmmm. With our gods eyes view of the situation we know Cersei is underestimating the threat.

From her pov I think it makes sense. What's the point of teaming up against the walkers and beating them, only then to die at Daneyrs hand. Having your enemies knock each other out and then deal with whoever is left standing is sound plan.

[eldaec]

Based on this week it seemed to me like they decided the Stark kids plus Theon and Dany are the leads, everyone else is a less a character than a plot point, narrator, or obstacle.

This is fine, the characters they've picked have conflicts and arcs to complete, and it feels like they have about the right amount of time for those 6 to get over themselves, Dany and Jon to do the big damn sacrifice, and idk, Sam and Bran to set up the enlightened rule of people who stop pulling stupid shit.

I honestly don't think TV Varys has anything left in the tank, Cersei is just a betrayal that Dany Sansa and Jon have to agree a response to, Euron is here to twirl a moustache and move shit around the map. Howland Reed isn't coming to complicate things. I doubt the golden company is more than a nod to book readers. At this point I even doubt Cleganebowl is happening.

[calapine]

Okay pretty random, but the scene introducing Tywin was one of the best in the show. Just read that the stag he is skinning is a real one: https://youtu.be/47MazYDnmaU

[HaemishM]

Varys has always been about keeping the 7 Kingdoms together so as to do as little damage as possible to people who have no ability to fight back. He's supported complete bastards in the throne while also conspiring against them so that some less bastard-y bastard can take the throne and make a less bastard-y kingdom. When he sees that no matter how much of a bastard Cersei is, what could happen if winter well and truly comes and fucks us all, he has maneuvered Jon and Dany together. I don't remember if he knows who Jon is or not (I think he doesn't), so would have miscalculated by putting those two together.

[eldaec]

I still find it hard to read into book Varys that he's just a nice guy - it matches available info after Joffery takes over but no obvious sense before that.

TV Varys, sure why not.

[Sir T]

Was just reading the team names, and realized that if I had a team I'd probably call it "Hold the Phwoars."

Yes, I have nothing else to add. Carry on.

[Cyrrex]

Okay pretty random, but the scene introducing Tywin was one of the best in the show. Just read that the stag he is skinning is a real one: https://youtu.be/47MazYDnmaU

I am starting to remember that you have some kind of unhealthy crush on Tywin Lannister.  Or is that my imagination?

I think Varys essentially has gotten what he wanted, and will be content to remain in the background until such time as that changes.  The revealing of Jon and Dany as relatives who are also rubbing their junk together might change that.  Speaking of which....is she going to get pregnant?  Doesn´t it mean the sun has to rise in the west, and if so, what could that be a metaphor for?

[calapine]

I am starting to remember that you have some kind of unhealthy crush on Tywin Lannister.  Or is that my imagination?

Slightly offended that this seems to trigger people, I genuinely like him. He oozes both authority and sexappeal. Strong without being a psychopath. He is intelligent which again is a very sexy trait in any person. Jamie comes a close second in date-ability, but is more the cliché of a fairy tale prince while Tywin is the teacher you have a crush on.

Who of the men would you like to date most? (genuine question) The most popular answer on here probably would this would be Bronn, which I guess is fine if you are looking for a drink/fuckbuddy with a heart of gold.

Anyway, with people ranting for pages about inane marvel comic shit I am not going to apologise for some harmless and not unhealthy daydreaming! And no, I am not being defensive. :p

Talking about pregnancy: Did you notice that Cersei was pregnant at the end of the last season but now drinks wine again and almost cried when Euron made that line about putting a baby in her stomach. She is really not having any luck with her kids. :/

[Tebonas]

Since I'm heterosexual I would go for Varys - for obvious reasons. On the surface Greyworm has the same characteristics, but hes a bit too handsy for an Eunuch. 

Just a quick aside without spoilering anything. The people in Westeros don't know shit about fetal alcohol syndrome, so the fact if and how much Cersei is drinking is unlikely to have any bearings on her pregnancy status.

[Polysorbate80]

Eh, bang one with all the bits or what’s the point?

Spoilered for the squeamish, abandon hope all ye....

[Tebonas]

The point being those are the options I can date without them demanding to bang me.

If its about banging as well it would definitely be Ygritte or Yara Greyjoy, no male substitute allowed.

[Riggswolfe]

Okay pretty random, but the scene introducing Tywin was one of the best in the show. Just read that the stag he is skinning is a real one: https://youtu.be/47MazYDnmaU

I am starting to remember that you have some kind of unhealthy crush on Tywin Lannister.  Or is that my imagination?

I think Varys essentially has gotten what he wanted, and will be content to remain in the background until such time as that changes.  The revealing of Jon and Dany as relatives who are also rubbing their junk together might change that.  Speaking of which....is she going to get pregnant?  Doesn´t it mean the sun has to rise in the west, and if so, what could that be a metaphor for?

She's in Westeros. Jon is the Son of a Targaryen. Sounds like the Son is indeed rising in the West to me.

Since I'm heterosexual I would go for Varys - for obvious reasons. On the surface Greyworm has the same characteristics, but hes a bit too handsy for an Eunuch. 

Just a quick aside without spoilering anything. The people in Westeros don't know shit about fetal alcohol syndrome, so the fact if and how much Cersei is drinking is unlikely to have any bearings on her pregnancy status.

Tyrion figured out she was pregnant because she wasn't drinking wine last season. So they've already established a link there.

[rattran]

You think the writers remember that?

Tyrion figured out she was pregnant because she wasn't drinking wine last season. So they've already established a link there.