Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Rendakor]

Agreed, the plot armor is getting pretty obvious lately.

[Teleku]

Sam stealing the sword was pure  .

He should have just left her at horn hill and been done with it.  Dragging her back to Oldtown after all that build up, AND stealing the god damn sword from his family, is just pointless stupid bullshit.  The very correct thing to do next episode is have his father catch up with him half a day outside of Horn Hill, and kill him.  That's the only possible outcome of this (but of course they wont).  There cannot possibly be any story reason for him taking it.

I understand them having him stop by Horn Hill along the way to introduce his father.  Randyll Tarly has increasingly played an important role in the books, and I remember it being commented on that he was the most dangerous one of the Reach lords.  He could very well pull a Bolton later on with the Tyrells, so it's important to get the character introduced to the show properly.  Everything else that happened though......

Arya successfully killed people for the faceless men in the books.  She's gotten skilled and willing to take people out.  Here she has fucked up every single task given to her.  It makes no god damn sense.  I mean, I guess its a way to get her away from that story line and back to Westros, but its going to be without any magical killing powers now.  Maybe what she does in the released chapter of the Winds of Winter in the books leads to the same outcome as this episode, but the character development has been way the hell worse.

At least we finally got an origin story for how Cold Hands came about, heh.

[Samwise]

At least we finally got an origin story for how Cold Hands came about, heh.

Delivered via hurried exposition without any buildup of the character whatsoever.  It feels like they budgeted their time poorly and are now just trying to hit the major plot points by any means necessary.

[Rendakor]

That's odd because they said there's only like 13 episodes left after this season; you would think they could slow some things down this season and stretch that to 20 for 2 more full seasons.

[calapine]

Arya, Dany, Bran, and Sam should be dead multiple times but have been protected by destiny/ need to get the story to a point.

True. But the show stays true in one sense: Scenes with Cersei areawesome and Daenerys is a bloody bore.

Edit: But regarding plot armour, yes. Seeing how powerful the faceless man are being presented and how Sam is just one fat guy both Arya and Sam should end up dead after what they have pulled off.

[Teleku]

Actually, kind of mad how they changed Cersei as well.  She is a complete incompetent fuck up in the books.  A drunk idiot who is only good at backstabbing, and is terrible at every single other thing she does.  Here they've made her way the hell more competent and sympathetic.  I keep rolling my eyes every time she is being awesome and/or sympathetic.  That's not Cersei!   

I really hope they aren't having Jamie head up to the Riverlands to re-enact all the pointless shit he did in book 4, which I thought we had gracefully glossed over.  Hopefully its just a way to get him out of town while everybody in Kingslanding gets murdered by the church somehow. 

[calapine]

One very obvious thing: Arya unsheating the sword before blowing out the candle in the dark. Considering how we saw her fighting blind before that's pretty wink wink

Actually, kind of mad how they changed Cersei as well.  She is a complete incompetent fuck up in the books.  A drunk idiot who is only good at backstabbing, and is terrible at every single other thing she does.  Here they've made her way the hell more competent and sympathetic.  I keep rolling my eyes every time she is being awesome and/or sympathetic.  That's not Cersei!  

I really hope they aren't having Jamie head up to the Riverlands to re-enact all the pointless shit he did in book 4, which I thought we had gracefully glossed over.  Hopefully its just a way to get him out of town while everybody in Kingslanding gets murdered by the church somehow.  

I don't know, having some character growth and/or progression seems "realistic". Else she would get boring form a viewers POV ("She is a fuckup and can only end up fucked up"). Giving her a small "chance" makes it more interesting.

[eldaec]

I found Cersei more sympathetic in the books. There was much more explaination of what made her batshit crazy.

Everyone has more character depth in the books - mostly because way more scenes.

Anyway - decent episode.

Jonathan Pryce again best thing in the episode.

I'm not totally sure Benjen is coldhands at this point. It could just as easily be a Jaquen/Kindly Man type thing.

For instance book Benjen might well show up when Jon goes north as ghost.

[eldaec]

Sam stealing the sword was pure  .

He should have just left her at horn hill and been done with it.  Dragging her back to Oldtown after all that build up, AND stealing the god damn sword from his family, is just pointless stupid bullshit.  The very correct thing to do next episode is have his father catch up with him half a day outside of Horn Hill, and kill him.  That's the only possible outcome of this (but of course they wont).  There cannot possibly be any story reason for him taking it.

The story reason is that it is Valyrian steel - ergo kills white walkers.

The sword has Chekov's status in the books, so I expect this is a typical TV rush job of a book storyline.

[Amarr HM]

I can't place it but something isn't right about Daenerys, character/actor feels like something from SyFy channel. Hammy as fuck.

[Rendakor]

She keeps making dumb decisions and getting away with it, while also existing so far away from the rest of the cast that it's hard to believe she matters. I've never really liked her, since it was obvious since book/season 1 that she was the REAL main character and the Starks are just window dressing to be killed off for shock value.

[Velorath]

I can't place it but something isn't right about Daenerys, character/actor feels like something from SyFy channel. Hammy as fuck.

Having just watched Triassic Attack on SyFy recently which came out one year prior to GoT and starred Emilia Clarke, you aren't too far off there. There are some fairly bad actors on GoT and she's one of them. I'd have to go back and rewatch season 1, but I feel like she might have benefited from speaking Dothraki quite a bit early on. Made it harder to notice how stilted her dialogue usually is.

[eldaec]

She wasn't the only mediocre casting in S1 lead roles. I guess it makes sense, I don't imagine they were likely to get Diana Rigg, Richard E Grant and Jonathan Pryce before the first season had aired.

Characters like Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie, Arya who turned out well were also all actors who you'd previously have expected to see on SyFy productions.

[eldaec]

Arya, Dany, Bran, and Sam should be dead multiple times but have been protected by destiny/ need to get the story to a point.

True. But the show stays true in one sense: Scenes with Cersei areawesome and Daenerys is a bloody bore.

Edit: But regarding plot armour, yes. Seeing how powerful the faceless man are being presented and how Sam is just one fat guy both Arya and Sam should end up dead after what they have pulled off.

I agree, but expect this to change as we get closer to the end.

Arya has made an enemy of the faceless men, broken an oath, and her death has been fortold. She is going to die.  It is just a matter of how long it will take and what she might do with her final 0 to 14 hours.

Sam is a different beast, if well written they have enough scope to do whatever they want with that. I have no particular problem with TV Tarley not wanting to embarass his house by dragging his son out of the citadel.

Bran on the other hand has been protected by Gandalf stuck in a tree. And within another 10 minutes of screentime he will actually be Gandalf. That's enough to explain it imho.

[Amarr HM]

She wasn't the only mediocre casting in S1 lead roles.

Which ones were worse, or on a par? My memory is not serving me well.

[Velorath]

She wasn't the only mediocre casting in S1 lead roles.

Which ones were worse, or on a par? My memory is not serving me well.

Kit Harington doesn't have much range, and it doesn't help that he's got pretty bad judgement when it comes to picking projects outside GoT. I don't think Sophie Turner is particularly good either, but I also don't think she was given much to work with for most of the show (the same could be said of her role as Jean Grey also). Jason Momoa also didn't really have to do much and was another one who maybe benefited a bit from speaking almost entirely in a made-up language.

[IainC]

She wasn't the only mediocre casting in S1 lead roles.

Which ones were worse, or on a par? My memory is not serving me well.

Petyr Baelish was awful at first. I think he improved a bit but he was very wooden in S1.

[Amarr HM]

Sophie Turner isn't a great actress but at least the casting was good and I kind of buy into her as the brattish ne'er do well who you end up feeling sorry for, she's probably one of the most well developed characters.

I have no issue Kit Harrignton, he isn't too bad an actor and he has a good screen presence when required. I would say he's perfectly casted regardless of his outside choices, at least he doesn't bring them to GoT.

Baelish, yeh he was poor, though I've kind of grown to be ok with his stilted manner.

[Threash]

Yeah Sophie Turner nailed the annoying spoiled teenager role, until she became a giantess I guess.  The problem is the character of Sansa is universally disliked and doesn't have much to do for most of the series.

[Amarr HM]

She's also really hot, which does help smooth over the cracks.

[eldaec]

Baelish is the only character whose TV actor isn't my head canon image when reading the books.

He's a weird case because he is clearly a good actor.

Kit Harrington was probably the worst offender in S1. And his role was a good deal easier to work with than Dany's.

 I never warmed to Catelyn's portrayal, but I think that was more about the choices the script writers made to have her be annoyingly wrong in out of character ways more often than she is in the book.

Robb Stark never really convinced either. Not enough Henry V, too much Henry VI.

But all this is relative. They are all perfectly adequate for tits and dragons. When you can cast Richard E Grant as a carnie in season 6, it doesn't seem completely fair to hold season 1 casting to the same standard.

[Amarr HM]

True that, but I think some of the bad casting is coming back to bite a little, especially Daenyrs. Really should have thought harder there, Natalie Dormer would have done a better job.

[palmer_eldritch]

She keeps making dumb decisions and getting away with it, while also existing so far away from the rest of the cast that it's hard to believe she matters. I've never really liked her, since it was obvious since book/season 1 that she was the REAL main character and the Starks are just window dressing to be killed off for shock value.

When she gave her speech about heading over the water to claim the throne it struck me that the last thing Westeros needs is another war. We don't see the ordinary people very often but presumably the constant fighting over who's going to be king isn't very good for them. And it's not as if she has a noble motive for doing it (like she did for deposing the slavers) - she just thinks she's entitled to be queen because her mad father used to be king.

I know this sort of thing is par for the course in Game of Thrones but in the past I'd always assumed we were meant to be cheering for Daenerys. Now the idea that she's going to sweep over everyone with her army (of rapists and slavers) and dragons just seems really annoying. I hope the story turns out to be more interesting than that.

[Threash]

Yeah, it's funny how she has no problem with the Dothraki who are a key part of the slave trade.

[Chimpy]

The plot/characters/motivations for this whole series is pretty thin. The TV show hooked us by showing us a lot of nekkid ladies in the first season.

[Merusk]

Dany's story is weakest in the books and she lacks real character development on the exact front you just pushed-forward; Her concern for "her people." In the first few, when she's 15 and being lead around by the nose by her brother then her rapist husband, you can give her a pass on the Westeros thing. It's what she's been raised to want and so far as she knows the only real motivation for a life she has.

As soon as Drogo dies and she starts to come into being her own person, caring for her freed-slave-subjects, etc, you'd think she'd start to think a little harder on that end goal. It never happens, though, and the whole plot is weaker for it.

Yeah, it's funny how she has no problem with the Dothraki who are a key part of the slave trade.

We're past her story from the books now, but I've got to assume she'll ban that practice, unless Martin is a complete hack unaware of his own character's motivations and beliefs.

[Khaldun]

The real question is whether she's starting to believe in her own theocratic-magic god-queen thing or whether she understands that's an act that creates power (the shadow that Varys talks about). I'd like to see something in her development that lets us know which it is. If it's the former, then her arc has to bend towards getting a comeuppance eventually (believing in your own god-queen status is Do Not Pass Go, Become the Mad King, unless you actually *are* a god-queen, and even then...) If it's the latter, then that's what pays off the faith of some of her inner circle and makes her the leader Westeros needs--but I don't know that Clarke is capable of playing a sly boots who can ham it up for the crowds and tone it down in private very well.

[Samwise]

I'd guess that she figures that now that she's their leader, she's going to put an end to Dothraki slave-taking.  Like she kind of tried to do as Drogo's wife, except now she has a lot more power to get it done.

As for Westeros I think her main motivation there is getting back at the usurpers that killed her family (Rhaegar and his children -- I don't think she necessarily gives any more fucks about the Mad King than she did about Viserys).  She hasn't been keeping up with current events on the other side of the sea and probably has no concept that at this point most of the people who were involved in that coup are no longer in the picture.  

Curious to see how Tyrion and Varys counsel her on all this (she's going to head back to Mereen to get her boats and other two dragons, right?) given that they've both expressed their desire to avoid shitting things up with pointlessly destructive wars and they're both very politically savvy.

[eldaec]

Her story is (I think) supposed to be about learning to use power to do good without destroying everything. She repeatedly breaks down a status quo, initially with disastrous consequences (Mirri Maz Duur), then does the same thing over and over with varying results until by Mereen she can at least keep a lid on things even if she can't make a stable plan.

Maybe her tragedy is that she realises she cannot rule in peace and her story ends in glorious sacrifice.

Maybe she figures it all out and rules Westeros till she is 203.

My money would be on the former, but there is plenty of time left to do either. I'd also guess Vaes Dothrak gets more than 15 minutes in the book and much of the development could have been done there - the crones would make a pretty good opportunity for character discussion, or visions, or imparting wisdom.

[eldaec]

The real question is whether she's starting to believe in her own theocratic-magic god-queen thing or whether she understands that's an act that creates power (the shadow that Varys talks about).

There was quite a bit around slavers bay where she demonstrated that she understood this.

What she seems to struggle with is making the drains work.

[K9]

I think this episode was always going to struggle to match up to 6x05, especially given how strong the direction on Hodor's scene was. Finishing this one on Dany just didn't carry much weight, or so it seemed to me. I guess they were banking on dragons being an awesome visual, but frankly there's nothing there we haven't seen before. But I guess we have to have at least one Dany speech per season where she hypes herself up something crazy. The episode should have ended with Arya blowing out the candle.

Best theory I've seen about Sam and the Sword is that he's stealing it to take it back to the Wall. In doing so he supplies the North with another weapon that works against the others while also dragging his father (supposedly one of the finest military minds left in Westeros) and his army up to the Wall to help the fight. As theories go it is a bit of a reach, and continues the ridiculous pin-ball of characters around the world on incredibly minor pretexts, but hey ho. Maybe he'll bump into Littlefinger and borrow his teleportation device.

I think there's a lot of fun stuff to come. Arya vs the Waif, Bastard vs Bastard in the North, and the Hound vs the Mountain. So I'm optimistic about the remaining episodes, even if this one was pretty meh.

[Merusk]

CLEGANE BOWL '16. BE THERE.

[Rendakor]

On the fantasy league front:

I will be adding new characters that can be drafted and whose points I will start counting next week. They will be available on a first-come-first-serve basis later this week -- if you are playing along on Fantasizer there will be a league update when they are added. Til then, the new characters, in no particular order (obviously):

    Kinvara (aka High Priestess Rachel Weisz)
    Edmure Tully
    Benjen Stark
    The Waif
    Eddison Tollett (aka Dolorous Edd)
    Smalljon Umber (who?)
    The Night's King
    Randyll Tarly
    Gendry (just for fun!)
    Catelyn Stark (just for fun!)

I can't tell if by "drafted" she means traded onto our team in place of existing members, or if there will be an additional draft round. We haven't been doing trades so far (except for Viin that one time); if these are only to be traded onto our teams, is everyone cool with us doing so?

[Amarr HM]

The episode should have ended with Arya blowing out the candle.

Yes, totally agree.

[Merusk]

The episode should have ended with Arya blowing out the candle.

Yes, totally agree.

Followed by a whispered, "Queen Cersi, Ser Meryn, Ser Ilyn..."