Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[eldaec]

Hey I found a legitimate subject for spoiler tags.

[Rendakor]

[jgsugden]

I've been thinking that reveal could be the final scene this season.

[Rendakor]

They did mention the Brotherhood Without Banners last episode, and we haven't heard of them since Season...3? So, maybe.

[Samwise]

Being as they already did the Coldhands reveal as a couple of sentences of exposition, they could easily do Stoneheart the same way.  Although since Brienne has already found Sansa and pledged service to her, I can't see that plotline playing out even remotely similarly.

[Merusk]

You never saw Stoneheart's origin in the books, it was a shocking reveal.

Here's how I see it playing out, if she comes about (popular theory remains Sana will take the role, tho that would be dumb):  Walder Frey's two boys (who mentioned the BWB) get caught by the BWB on the way back to try and retake Riverrun. After some bravado about daddy or the Lannisters coming to save them, Stoneheart is revealed and she offs them. Would explain Jamie treating with Blackfish rather than joining-up with the forces Frey just sent back w/ Edmure in tow.

[Khaldun]

I can see them thinking is the shock reveal that would keep book-readers feeling vaguely superior. I still have a vague sense of stall in that respect--they don't want to do anything that will be WILDLY out of touch with Martin's possible/eventual dealing out of resolutions.

For example, well, Arya in the books has already murdered people on command and gone way deeper into being loyal no-one. But I can see her eventually rebelling and fighting free. Then we'd all say, "well, it's two versions of the same thing, but adds up the same". But if in the books she becomes head of the Faceless (Wo)Men and decides to quit the wars of Westeros because they're all nonsense, well...

[K9]

Being as they already did the Coldhands reveal as a couple of sentences of exposition, they could easily do Stoneheart the same way.  Although since Brienne has already found Sansa and pledged service to her, I can't see that plotline playing out even remotely similarly.

At this point adding in LSH just feels like fanservice. I'm not sure what she'd actually add to the plot. Benjen was a fair whack of fanservice, but at least his appearance has some relevance to the overarching plot.

[eldaec]

In the books she definitely has relevance to Brienne and Jamie, and if that is a necessary plot point I don't see why you'd choose to do it without SH.

That said, with Jamie repurposed as a fellow traveller for Cersei to plot with, I'm not sure the Brienne and Jamie plot has any remaining impact.

[IainC]

I don't think there is a Brienne and Jaime plot any more. My impression of it was that it was purely there to redeem Jaime and show that he was fundamentally honourable at heart. After he returned to KL and, especially after the death of Joffrey and Mirrella, he doesn't have any particular reason to get involved with Brienne any more. He loves Cersei and he's not going to abandon her for Brienne. He's most definitely all-in on Tommen and he knows that if House Lannister is to keep its position, then it all depends on Tommen staying alive and on the Iron Throne. To that end, he has to stick with Cersei and the Tyrells no matter what. I don't think there's anything that either Catelyn or Brienne can say or do that will break him out of that and neither of those have any particular impact on KL or court politics anyway. Pretty much the only significant thing I can see coming from it is a showdown between Jaime and Catelyn about the North and Jaime being the kingmaker who gets to decide whether the Boltons or the Starks get to win. It's still a bit far fetched but it would be an interesting arc for a couple of episodes.

[apocrypha]

Quick question: has anyone worked out yet why we weren't explicitly shown Stannis's death? Brienne outright said that she executed him last episode, and this isn't a show that shys away from clearly depicting people's deaths, so the only reason I can think of for them not showing it is if he's still alive.

[eldaec]

You'd also be assuming Brienne is lying.

I thought it was to avoid the show looking like an early Peter Jackson movie. May be remembering it wrong but I don't think we saw the blow for the other beheadings.

[Khaldun]

The only thing I can imagine putting Jamie on a new path is if while he's away, the Sparrows stage a complete coup and kill Tommen, Margery and Cersei (or imprison them and say they will execute them, as in the case of the French Revolution). Under the circumstances he might be desperate enough to beg for assistance from almost anybody, at any cost. I can certainly see Margery thinking that if she controls Tommen, then she controls the High Sparrow, and overplaying her hand in that regard, since the High Sparrow seems like a genuinely canny fellow.

[eldaec]

I don't think there is a Brienne and Jaime plot any more. My impression of it was that it was purely there to redeem Jaime and show that he was fundamentally honourable at heart.

Not just to start Jamie's development, it also taught Brienne operate beyond her assumptions about what honour means.

In the books Jamie is stil very much on the journey - TV Jamie would need to transform back to end of season 4 Jamie somehow.

I agree it would be bad writing, but it was bad writing when he completely changed character overnight at the start of S5, so I wouldn't put it past them. 5 minutes of complaining to Bronn that his lover and son sent him away would be par for the course.

It all depends how critical getting Jamie Brienne and Catelyn back together actually is.

[Threash]

Quick question: has anyone worked out yet why we weren't explicitly shown Stannis's death? Brienne outright said that she executed him last episode, and this isn't a show that shys away from clearly depicting people's deaths, so the only reason I can think of for them not showing it is if he's still alive.

My guess is that they hadn't made up their minds yet about whether they were going to kill him off or not and were leaving their options open.  Which is kinda lame.

[satael]

Another board had an idea how the Arya thing could turn out actually pretty awesome in my opinion:

edit: this really would be a spoiler if it happened anywhere close to this way and you were aware of it beforehand from reading about it

[Merusk]

Too awesome to happen here, I'm afraid.

[Threash]

Another board had an idea how the Arya thing could turn out actually pretty awesome in my opinion:

edit: this really would be a spoiler if it happened anywhere close to this way and you were aware of it beforehand from reading about it

Not sure why we are spoiling theories but the waif doesn't always leave the room when Jaqen and Arya talk, she was there when the "original" Jaqen drank poison after Arya's first failure.  In fact i have no idea who this Jaqen is, the waif turned into Jaqen after the first one died.  Edit: also no, guesses are not spoilers even if they end up being right.

[Samwise]

Gaaaaah that would be super cool.

[Sir T]

The Waif could be in the same room as the more dominant personality by "magic." Stranger things have happened on the show. Hell at this point it could be the same character from the future/past if you really want to comic it up.

[Samwise]

It's like some of you never saw Fight Club.

[palmer_eldritch]

Well yeah, it would be easy to believe Jaqen can in some way see what's going on in Arya's head because he's not your average guy. Maybe he even went through a similar thing himself as an apprentice.

(I'm now just going to assume this fan theory is true until it's proved otherwise)

[eldaec]

Waif's history in full... she admits to an untruth and an exaggeration in here. If you can make it reconcile with Arya through one untruth and one exaggeration, then you got yourself a proper theory.

I was the only child of an ancient noble house, my noble father's heir. My mother died when I was little, I have no memory of her. When I was six years old my father wed again. His new wife treated me kindly until she gave birth to a daughter of her own. Then it was her wish that I should die, so her own blood might inherit my father's wealth. She should have sought the favour of the Many-Faced God, but she could not bear the sacrifice he would ask of her. Instead she thought to poison me herself. It left me as you see me now, but I did not die. When the healers in the House of the Red Hands told my father what she had done, he came here and made sacrifice, offering up all of his wealth and me. Him of Many-Faced faces heard his prayer. I was brought to the temple to serve, and my father's wife received the gift.

As far as Arya knows she is indeed an only child, and her mother did die when she was little. She has no memory as this is no one talking.

The untruth could be that the man in the rest of the story is her father....

[Teleku]

Not sure why we are spoiling theories but the waif doesn't always leave the room when Jaqen and Arya talk, she was there when the "original" Jaqen drank poison after Arya's first failure.  In fact i have no idea who this Jaqen is, the waif turned into Jaqen after the first one died.  Edit: also no, guesses are not spoilers even if they end up being right.

Pretty sure this is still the original Jaqen, and he didn't die.  Remember she tore off the face, found others, till she eventually found her own, and then was struck blind.  Pretty sure they were just fucking with her and trying to teach a lesson.  Or the 'death' of her eyesight was the actual repayment for the life wh took, or something like that.

[eldaec]

It's definitely not the original Jaqen from season 2 - they made that clear last season.

I interpreted the scene where "Jaqen"  drinks poison as a real death by a servant of the many faced god, but not necessarily the kindly man who had been training Arya. I also wouldn't be surprised if it turns out there has been more than one kindly man training Arya.

The faceless men aren't fucking around when it comes to paying for life and death. Both book and TV established that at Harrenhall.

[Teleku]

Well yes, but there was never a death payed for the murder she did in the book to the night watch deserters.  They just gave her something to make her go blind as punishment.  So obviously they make exceptions.  :p

[Chimpy]

  pre-opening credits scene

[Merusk]

End scene. 

[HaemishM]

WOOF WOOF, motherfuckers. WOOF... WOOF. 

[Khaldun]

Ok.

First off, hiring Ian McShane to play Septon Fred Rogers in his neighborhood is at least mildly perverse.

[Samwise]

The Fight Club theory is gaining strength IMO.  I'm pissed we have to wait until next week to find out.

[satael]

Overall I really liked this episode and that was probably due to no dragons (or anything related to that part of the plot) in it. This probably means that I'll hate the next episode which will in all likelihood be Daenarys-heavy.   

[Setanta]

Lady Mormont has entered the game = total badass and showed Sansa what it's all about.

BWB is heading towards a certain reveal IMO.

[Merusk]

The Fight Club theory is gaining strength IMO.  I'm pissed we have to wait until next week to find out.

I don't see how it gained strength here at all. I still think it's too much for the writers or Martin to have come up with and just fans wanting the story to be better.

Seemed a shame to use McShane on only one episode, though.

Lady Mormont has entered the game = total badass and showed Sansa what it's all about.

BWB is heading towards a certain reveal IMO.

That 10-year-old killed it. She's going to be awesome if she doesn't fall victim to the child-actor curse.

I think BWB was just used as a convenient in-world scapegoat. Having the reveal after they slaughtered a few dozen innocents is a terrible introduction. That group was about avenging not mindless killing.

[Khaldun]

I hope that wasn't the BWB, really. I don't get it otherwise.

I also hope the Arya thing turns out to be some kind of misdirect. Otherwise that entire plotline is going to feel pointless--what, you apprentice with face-changing assassins and then walk boldly around town booking a boat? Can't be that stupid.