Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Merusk]

People who don't aspire to have power don't understand the allure of actually having it. They want to be lord/ king/ god emperor of Westeros for the power. Other concerns are trivial. Peasants are trivial. Having the power. Being the one who makes other leaders tremble at your prestiege. That's the allure and that's why they want to hold sway.

A similar reason there'd be plenty of people willing to be King or Queen of England today, even absent all the actual power they once had.  Because I'M King, dammit.

[K9]

Most of Essos is the Dothraki sea, which I think is something akin to the steppes of Kazakhstan or Mongolia; remote, vast, and largely inaccessible. The free cities all seem to make money from trade, but that's it, and I imagine that Westeros is their major trading partner. None of them seem to have as much primary economy as Westeros, which is far more developed and populous, or at least population-dense.

[Speedy Cerviche]

Same goes for Arya and the Many-Faced God - we all think maybe she's training to be a face-changing assassin, but she clearly isn't willing to give up being Arya Stark so what's the point? No fucking idea and neither book or show gives us any idea. That she's a likable character is the only reason that story doesn't suck.

I just hope it doesn't turn into an embarrassing fantasy trope. 12 year old girl turns into unstoppable killing machine, comes out of nowhere and saves the day.

[Threash]

I'm not sure how they could've made Dorne work without throwing a main character in there.  I guess Jamies storyline was deemed the most expendable.  Without him there though we would have the same complaints as the books "who the fuck are this people and why do i need to give a shit".  This guys know what's going to happen, that they chose to keep Dorne over shit like Jamie in the Riverlands and meeting Brienne or Lady Stoneheart just tells me Dorne has a big part to play in the rest of the story.  They should've kept Ramsay's (or whoever actually wrote it) letter to Jon and his attempt to march on Winterfell.  Good guys fuck up, good guys die, that's how its worked so far.

[eldaec]

Just on Dorne, I'm happy to critcise the book for not demonstrating why it was there until the reveal at the end.

You would expect the easy fix to be revealing Doran's plan earlier. Instead the TV show 'fixed' this by removing the pay off entirely. 

[Lucas]

Oysters, Clams and Cockles (Trap Remix):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsJhXez42Ko

 

 

[Khaldun]

Same goes for Arya and the Many-Faced God - we all think maybe she's training to be a face-changing assassin, but she clearly isn't willing to give up being Arya Stark so what's the point? No fucking idea and neither book or show gives us any idea. That she's a likable character is the only reason that story doesn't suck.

I just hope it doesn't turn into an embarrassing fantasy trope. 12 year old girl turns into unstoppable killing machine, comes out of nowhere and saves the day.

I was going to agree that it's an embarrassing fantasy trope and then I sort of had to stop and scratch my head. How many unstoppable 12-year old girl assassins are there in fantasy narratives?

I think it more seems like a kind of Mary Sue thing than a trope, maybe? A trope seems to me to have to be "wise but enigmatic wizard with a slightly bad temper" or "angry barbarian warrior who hates civilized people for what they did to him when he was young" or "simple farmboy with a great destiny".   Like, there are lots of examples and even things that don't quite fit the pattern almost prove the rule or don't fit precisely because the writer's trying to escape the trope.

I actually realized I couldn't think of that many 12-year old supercompetent girl assassins with a vendetta in fantasy.

[DraconianOne]

Same goes for Arya and the Many-Faced God - we all think maybe she's training to be a face-changing assassin, but she clearly isn't willing to give up being Arya Stark so what's the point? No fucking idea and neither book or show gives us any idea. That she's a likable character is the only reason that story doesn't suck.

I just hope it doesn't turn into an embarrassing fantasy trope. 12 year old girl turns into unstoppable killing machine, comes out of nowhere and saves the day.

I was going to agree that it's an embarrassing fantasy trope and then I sort of had to stop and scratch my head. How many unstoppable 12-year old girl assassins are there in fantasy narratives?

I think it more seems like a kind of Mary Sue thing than a trope, maybe? A trope seems to me to have to be "wise but enigmatic wizard with a slightly bad temper" or "angry barbarian warrior who hates civilized people for what they did to him when he was young" or "simple farmboy with a great destiny".   Like, there are lots of examples and even things that don't quite fit the pattern almost prove the rule or don't fit precisely because the writer's trying to escape the trope.

I actually realized I couldn't think of that many 12-year old supercompetent girl assassins with a vendetta in fantasy.

Maybe not in swords/sorcery fantasy per se, but the trope exists quite a lot in general.  Mathilda (Leon, not Roald Dahl), Hanna, River Tam, Hit-girl and a fair few others.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I meant more Hollywood fantasy (in the general defenition of the word) than high fantasy fiction, where you have these 100lb girls who are ripping through squads of soldiers, dropping 220 lb men with a single judo chop. The story 80% over, approaching a climax now and she's still basically a novice after a bit of basic training, but does anyone not think she'll soon be back in Westeros killing villains left & right? Kind of absurd when you step back and think about it, but it is still one of the more interesting plotlines so I don't mind too much, but I would be kind of annoyed if Arya and the faceless men came in and altered some long term plot setups with some deus ex machina super duper magical assassinations.

[Paelos]

It's one of the reasons I can't stand the Arya character. Her arc makes absolutely no sense in a world where people make terrible decisions and get murdered. She should be dead on the side of the road 10x over by now.

[Samwise]

The series doesn't tend to have "main characters" around whom the entire plot revolves (at least not for long) and I don't think that's going to change.  Arya's going to get back to Westeros and find that almost everyone on her list is already dead, and those who aren't have become politically irrelevant.  My guess is she'll get to kill Cersei, but it won't matter much to the larger plot because Cersei will have already been booted from power by that point.

Also I don't think she's going to become any sort of unstoppable badass in a straight up fight.  She's good at being in the right place at the right time and she's good at making useful friends.  Good qualities in an assassin and I think those will remain her core strengths.

[K9]

Cersei is almost certainly going to be killed by Jaime.

I saw one theory that suggested that in TWOW Cersei's trial will take the form of Trial of Seven and her champions will be the Kingsguard, including frankenmountain, and the Faith's champions will include the Hound, and Jaime. By winning Jaime ensures Cersei's guilt and by default causes her to die. Thus he becomes the Valnoquar of prophecy.

It could all be utter bollocks obviously.

Also, of the thirteen people on Arya's list, only four are oficially still alive: Cersei, Illyn Payne, Meryn Trant, and Dunsen (who?). There's also the Hound and the Mountain who are presumed to be alive in some shape. She'll almost certainly get Meryn Trant, but it seems unlikely that she'll get to kill, or whatever, the Mountain, and she may not kill the hound. She almost certainly won't get Cersei, and that only leaves Illyn Payne and Dunsen, neither of whom are particularly exciting targets.

I suspect that Arya's plot lies somewhere in the idea of 'The Starks Reunited', she'll reaquaire Nymeria and reunite with her Family and Jon Snow for some reason yet to be specified.

[Threash]

The prophecy says Cersei dies with her little brothers hands around her neck, that seems too specific for a trial to qualify.

[eldaec]

Plus given how Tyrion killed Shae with a chain of hands, and Cersei's rather odd insistence on various occasions that Jamie should be given that chain...

[eldaec]

I suspect that Arya's plot lies somewhere in the idea of 'The Starks Reunited', she'll reaquaire Nymeria and reunite with her Family and Jon Snow for some reason yet to be specified.

More likely she'll be sewing all through winter and when the spring thaw comes, they will find her body with a needle still locked tight between her frozen fingers.

I imagine she'll kill someone important - possibly becoming noone and coming to understand who is actually important in the process, and probably making a dramatic sacrifice in sight of Winterfell. In other words, a rerun of the Twins only this time she arrives in time.

[Rendakor]

Also, of the thirteen people on Arya's list, only four are oficially still alive: Cersei, Illyn Payne, Meryn Trant, and Dunsen (who?). There's also the Hound and the Mountain who are presumed to be alive in some shape. She'll almost certainly get Meryn Trant, but it seems unlikely that she'll get to kill, or whatever, the Mountain, and she may not kill the hound. She almost certainly won't get Cersei, and that only leaves Illyn Payne and Dunsen, neither of whom are particularly exciting targets.

I suspect that Arya's plot lies somewhere in the idea of 'The Starks Reunited', she'll reaquaire Nymeria and reunite with her Family and Jon Snow for some reason yet to be specified.

Meryn Trant is not alive. Did you not watch the season finale?

[K9]

I'm talking books here

[shiznitz]

Jaime isn't beating anygood enough to Cersei's champion left-handed.

[Lantyssa]

The prophecy says Cersei dies with her little brothers hands around her neck, that seems too specific for a trial to qualify.

I thought the prophecy was that Cersei dies by the hands of the little brother, which has a couple of possible explanations.

Also, of the thirteen people on Arya's list, only four are oficially still alive: Cersei, Illyn Payne, Meryn Trant, and Dunsen (who?). There's also the Hound and the Mountain who are presumed to be alive in some shape. She'll almost certainly get Meryn Trant, but it seems unlikely that she'll get to kill, or whatever, the Mountain, and she may not kill the hound. She almost certainly won't get Cersei, and that only leaves Illyn Payne and Dunsen, neither of whom are particularly exciting targets.

Arya has crossed the Hound off her list by this point.  In the show Illyn Payne won't return.  They retired his character because the actor had terminal cancer.

[Paelos]

The prophecy says Cersei dies with her little brothers hands around her neck, that seems too specific for a trial to qualify.

I thought the prophecy was that Cersei dies by the hands of the little brother, which has a couple of possible explanations.

It is. I've always assumed Tyrion comes back to kill her.

[Merusk]

Except in the same book Cersi's internal monologue butches that it's not fair Jaime is the Lannister heir because she was born first.

[Paelos]

Except in the same book Cersi's internal monologue butches that it's not fair Jaime is the Lannister heir because she was born first.

Yeah, but I like the Tyrion version better because of the double meaning of little brother.l

[eldaec]

The prophecy says Cersei dies with her little brothers hands around her neck, that seems too specific for a trial to qualify.

I thought the prophecy was that Cersei dies by the hands of the little brother, which has a couple of possible explanations.

Cersei: Will the king and I have children?
Maggy: Oh, aye. Six-and-ten for him, and three for you. Gold shall be their crowns and gold their shrouds, she said. And when your tears have drowned you, the valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you.

I'm sticking with Jamie uses the hand of the king chain of office.

I don't think GRRM would have used 'valonqar' if he meant Tyrion, it is too on the nose for a Feast prophecy, he would more likely have linked to Cersei's view of him as a monster, or other Tyrion imagery (a white or silver lion, or a long shadow). Wheras it is just the right amount obtuse for Jamie. Given this is introduced after Jamie loses his hand and after Tyrion kills Shae, it also seems likely the phrase 'wrap his hands' is not accidental.

[K9]

Also, of the thirteen people on Arya's list, only four are oficially still alive: Cersei, Illyn Payne, Meryn Trant, and Dunsen (who?). There's also the Hound and the Mountain who are presumed to be alive in some shape. She'll almost certainly get Meryn Trant, but it seems unlikely that she'll get to kill, or whatever, the Mountain, and she may not kill the hound. She almost certainly won't get Cersei, and that only leaves Illyn Payne and Dunsen, neither of whom are particularly exciting targets.

Arya has crossed the Hound off her list by this point.  In the show Illyn Payne won't return.  They retired his character because the actor had terminal cancer.

It's still pretty ambiguous in the books.

Also, in happy news, the actor who plays him was actually succesfully treated for his pancreatic cancer and might be able to return to the show at a later stage. Not that this makes the remnants of Arya's list much less underwhelming.

Except in the same book Cersi's internal monologue butches that it's not fair Jaime is the Lannister heir because she was born first.

Yeah, but I like the Tyrion version better because of the double meaning of little brother.l

Tyrion can't be her little brother because he's another secret Targ and half-brother of Daenerys 

[Samwise]

"The valonqar" (as opposed to "your little brother" or "your valonqar") suggests to me that it's not even necessarily HER little brother.  Could be the Hound if he's somehow still alive.  Etc.

[angry.bob]

Maybe not in swords/sorcery fantasy per se, but the trope exists quite a lot in general.  Mathilda (Leon, not Roald Dahl), Hanna, River Tam, Hit-girl and a fair few others.

Every anime with any sort of fighting ever made. And a pretty solid number of arcade games.

[Lantyssa]

Also, in happy news, the actor who plays him was actually succesfully treated for his pancreatic cancer and might be able to return to the show at a later stage. Not that this makes the remnants of Arya's list much less underwhelming.

I hope he stays clear.  Pancreatic has an abysmal 5 year survival rate.

[eldaec]

As much as I dislike the Tyrion Targaryean theory, it would explain an awful lot of choices, from his hair colour, to his dreams of dragons, to why there is so much backstory about Aerys II and Joanna Lannister.

[jgsugden]

Ian McShane has an unspecified role next season. I have to think it is a Kraken role...

[Threash]

Randall Tarly or Damphair.

[eldaec]

Or Euron.

Though his role is supposedly "small but pivotal", so I wouldn't rule out Arthur Dayne in a tower of joy episode.

[eldaec]

Ming the Merciless has been cast as Brynden Rivers.

Will be interesting to see what they do with him given they've skipped a lot of Westeros magic.

[Shannow]

How the fuck was this on page 4...

Well anyways Season 6 trailer is here

'I choose violence' will be my go to phrase of 2016.

[pants]

Damn I love Ser Davos.

"Apologies for what you're about to see."

[calapine]

Dayum, that was nice.

Looking forward to pissed-of-tomboy-Cersei and playing-the-game-Sansa.