Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Riggswolfe]

He's a bit more than just a Stannis proxy.

He also helps introduce the religious conflict (and the magic vs not conflict), and his history as a smuggler with his missing fingers is supposed to show that in this universe people that did bad things can do good things, but still have to pay for the bad. I guess he is supposed to foreshadow Jamie, theon, and others.

I can see foreshadowing Jamie but Theon? I don't remember Theon ever coming back from being the Turncloak.

[Rendakor]

Book 5/6 spoiler regarding Theon:

[Tannhauser]

He's a bit more than just a Stannis proxy.

He also helps introduce the religious conflict (and the magic vs not conflict), and his history as a smuggler with his missing fingers is supposed to show that in this universe people that did bad things can do good things, but still have to pay for the bad. I guess he is supposed to foreshadow Jamie, theon, and others.

I can see foreshadowing Jamie but Theon? I don't remember Theon ever coming back from being the Turncloak.

Gee, thanks for that.

[Riggswolfe]

Book 5/6 spoiler regarding Theon:

I forgot about that. A minor thing but yeah.

[MediumHigh]

Anyone who hates Dany's storyline now.....well you're an entire season too early...

[angry.bob]

Besides, we are talking about 8 thousand soldiers here, even if they are super cool it is not even half of Robb's army and his was the smallest one of all the contenders for the iron throne. 

Really? I'm not disputing that, it's just that any of the times they've shown the armies "assembled" or in camp they've seemed much smaller. I realize the different grand armies are split up, but the only force that's looked like more than a couple thousand men was the giant Lanister camp. Rob looks like he's tromping around with an army the size of a Boy Scout summer camp.

The Unsullied also appear to be considerably better troops than the houses of Westeros field.

[Riggswolfe]

Besides, we are talking about 8 thousand soldiers here, even if they are super cool it is not even half of Robb's army and his was the smallest one of all the contenders for the iron throne.  Her power is and has always revolved around the dragons.  Personally i think they need to spend more time with (tri)Pod of house Mandingo.

Keep in mind that the other armies are likely conscripts and a few professional soldiers. The Unsullied have been trained since childhood to be soldiers. That counts for a lot.

[Chimpy]

The Unsullied also appear to be considerably better troops than the houses of Westeros field.

Don't think I really need to spoiler the fact (which was sort of said by the slave master in the episode where he was selling) that the Unsullied in the books are considered to be the pinnacle of fighting forces. Think Spartan Hoplites on steroids.

[Merusk]

Unsullied are trained as fighters from the age of 5.  There's a whole thing about how badass they are and how only 1/3 survive to be castrated, then of that only some percentage get through the unsullied trials and tests.  There's also a story about how 3000 unsullied stopped a Khallisar of 50,000 dorthyaki 400 years ago, etc, etc.  

Basically Dany has the Spartan SS to the peasant rabble and men at arms of Westeros.

[MahrinSkel]

The historical equivalents are Xenophon's Immortals or the Ottoman Jannissaries, both of which went through contemporary opponents like a harvester through corn.  8000 troops like that would be a major force in Westeros (where the model is the traditional feudal one of a small cadre of knights who are only coherent as heavy cavalry, and large levies of peasants for infantry).

--Dave

[Phred]

Book 5/6 spoiler regarding Theon:

[Phred]

it's just that any of the times they've shown the armies "assembled" or in camp they've seemed much smaller.

Hint: Extras budget.

[Rendakor]

[apocrypha]

I thought this episode was great. I was starting to worry that they'd lost their way a bit with the first 3 episodes of this season, it was feeling a bit pedestrian, but it felt to me like they found their stride properly with this one.

Yeah, the Unsullied thing was telegraphed, especially the language thing, but that didn't make it any less satisfying to watch. Great fun.

[eldaec]

I understood unsullied to be stronger than anything bar full knights, but while 8000 would be serious business on any battlefield, they probably not be enough to siege and take KL, let alone all of Westeros.

But the point is moot as they are not in Westeros and still have no way to get there.

[Tebonas]

I guess the Dragons make good enough Siege Weapons. Just ask Harrenhal.

[Merusk]

Remember this when considering the dragons: House Targaryen rode them in to battle when the first coquored Westeros.  Those things are going to get a LOT bigger.

[Arthur_Parker]

I think the recent Dragons that died out were progressively getting weaker/sicker and smaller according to the books, likely due to being caged, (Summer born?) etc.  Your point stands though, as I too fully expect these three to be a return of the size of old.

[eldaec]

I think the cage thing is misdirection. They got weaker because the magic went away, the magic went away because , but presumably in part because, as Varys mentioned this week and has been hinted vigorously, there are people/creatures/gods who want magic to go away as well as people/creatures/gods that don't.

[Arthur_Parker]

Could very well be, I haven't read the books for quite a while. 

I do think it's possible that Summer echos the Long Intervals from the Pern series and Winter is some kind of set planetary alignment event that creates more magic in the world, but I won't be that surprised if George up and dies before I find out.

[MediumHigh]

Naw. Its been strongly hinted in the series that dragons were the bringers of magic (or at least its amplified forms) and the wane of magic tightly followed the wane of the dragons.

[Threash]

Besides, we are talking about 8 thousand soldiers here, even if they are super cool it is not even half of Robb's army and his was the smallest one of all the contenders for the iron throne. 

Really? I'm not disputing that, it's just that any of the times they've shown the armies "assembled" or in camp they've seemed much smaller. I realize the different grand armies are split up, but the only force that's looked like more than a couple thousand men was the giant Lanister camp. Rob looks like he's tromping around with an army the size of a Boy Scout summer camp.

The Unsullied also appear to be considerably better troops than the houses of Westeros field.

They don't really show them because they can't but their numbers are mentioned several times.  Drogo had 40 thousand Dothraki even though you only ever saw about 20 puerto ricans in horses, Robb's army was around 20 thousand, Tywin Lannister had 60 thousand which he split between himself and Jamie, and was raising another army back at Casterly rock, both of the latter ones Robb already defeated.  Renly's army was over 100k as it contained the combined forces of the Tyrells and Baratheons, the Baratheons went to Stannis and the Tyrells went with Loras and joined Tywin eventually.

[Speedy Cerviche]

I think the cage thing is misdirection. They got weaker because the magic went away, the magic went away because , but presumably in part because, as Varys mentioned this week and has been hinted vigorously, there are people/creatures/gods who want magic to go away as well as people/creatures/gods that don't.

[Ironwood]

So it's all a bit of a Who Knows.

[eldaec]

Naw. Its been strongly hinted in the series that dragons were the bringers of magic (or at least its amplified forms) and the wane of magic tightly followed the wane of the dragons.

I can't think of any reliable evidence (in this context reliable means direct observation, foreshadowing, a dream, or a prophecy) that supports the assumption characters make that dragons are cause rather than effect. I rather assume they exist in the same way as walkers, they require magic but not sure they facilitate it.

Varys origin story (even if he is lying, it is an obvious GRRM plant) is evidence that magic is being brought into the world by some intelligent entity or organisation. Craster also foreshadows it.

[Arthur_Parker]

Naw. Its been strongly hinted in the series that dragons were the bringers of magic (or at least its amplified forms) and the wane of magic tightly followed the wane of the dragons.

I don't know, the books don't have a trustworthy narrator, just the views each character holds and those have been shown to be deliberately misleading before.  I can see the difference between the "Dragons bringing more Magic" and "More Magic making Dragons thrive" being hard to spot and easily mistaken for each other.

To me, it's a better plot device if the long varying lengths of the Winters & Summers are directly linked to the appearance of Magic/Dragons.

[MediumHigh]

I think that in game of thrones universe magic is amplified by the presence of supernatural beings being active. White walkers, dragons, etc. But beyond that exist magic in minor amounts or magic tied to devote faith to the gods.


Another theory I have is that magic is very much active in the East vs Westeros is because the people of Westeros believes in the Seven, a faith that focuses more about virtue and righteousness, than personal power. 

[Arthur_Parker]

I can't think of any reliable evidence (in this context reliable means direct observation, foreshadowing, a dream, or a prophecy) that supports the assumption characters make that dragons are cause rather than effect. I rather assume they exist in the same way as walkers, they require magic but not sure they facilitate it.

Yeah, I think you put that better than my attempt at it.

[Threash]

This thread is a big ol mess, some people post spoilers and then use spoilers for the very next sentence.  At this point i urge non readers to stay away.

[Phred]

I think the recent Dragons that died out were progressively getting weaker/sicker and smaller according to the books, likely due to being caged,

And the loving care of the Maesters.

[Phred]

[Threash]

Doesn't mean he's right either.

[Phred]

Doesn't mean he's right either.

Id say in the book context old men's death bed revelations tend to be more right than wrong.

[eldaec]

[Phred]