Game of Thrones [SPOILERS]

[Khaldun]

Sort of liked it. Obviously missing a lot of connective tissue, but if this is where Martin's outline goes, I get what he's up to.

Less the Dread Pirate Arya and more Christopher Columbus.

[Rishathra]

The only spinoff I really want from this would be titled, "The Small Council."

[Rendakor]

It was as good as it could have been, given the rest of the season. Nothing in the ending really angered me other than them wasting Arya and all that wonderful foreshadowing.

It was unclear what exactly what Jon was doing at the wall. Is he a ranger now? Lord commander? Did he just say 'fuck it' and leave to live with the wildlings?

[Khaldun]

Fuck it and left to be Mance Rayder II, which might be a problem for Sansa in time.

Kind of amusing that the FIRST RECONSTRUCTION in King's Landing is the Small Council room. Tells you something about Bran the Cipher's non-agenda. "Whatever you want Lord Tyrion, I'm going be a boar for the afternoon".

[Riggswolfe]

Unless I misunderstood he basically "Fuck the Night's Watch, I'm with the Free People now!"

[Abagadro]

There is no real night's watch. It was a banishment that everyone understood was "just get him out of here so the Unsullied will fuck off to somewhere else." No one really cared after that so he went back to where he was, if you think about it, probably the most happy living with the free folk.

[HaemishM]

That ending was nonsensical, stupid and terrible in just about every way.

[MediumHigh]

This is pure justice.

[schild]

can i just lock this

there's nothing to discuss

[Riggswolfe]

[schild]

try again

[jgsugden]

The only spinoff I really want from this would be titled, "The Small Council."

A 30 minute single camera sitcom?

It felt like it ended like a lot of D&D campaigns: The DM moved away, one of the players tried to finish it up, and everyone just lost interest and let their characters wander off to retirement so that they could start a new campaign.

I don't hate it as much as many of you, but it was not a satisfying payoff. 

[Bunk]

I liked it. Was more satisfying than expected, considering the corners they'd painted themselves into with the rush. Left a few loose ends I would have liked answers for, but overall I'm happy.

[Tebonas]

As an end, I liked it.

It wasn't earned by the rest of the season, though. There was no emotional through line. It feels like they had the ending written by somebody who (mostly) knows what he is doing, but the way there was sketched in by some hacks. Any chance they already got the large story beats of the finale from GRRM and just ineptly tried to figure out a way to get there?

[schild]

ok seriously how can you like bran the broken

best story in the 7 kingdoms, first of his name, brother of a 3 people with better stories

[Tebonas]

That might be the biggest narrative misstep in the finale (thats why I wrote mostly), but even that could have worked with a competent lead-up. For example reminding us of the fact that what fucked Westeros were the emotional states of all their recent leaders. Bran is the ultimate "King that doesn't want it", which seems to be the most important criteria after all those emotionally unstable contenders in the past. Also, he has an expiry date, so everybody else can lick their wounds and reenter the game of thrones once he passed, if they so choose.

So I'm not sure it's supposed to work for all eternity. The North being independent might be a problem in the future, as might be the reemergenge of the North-North.
The fact that the six kingdoms are setting up a system to send their undesirables to the far border of another kingdom will likely not survive the current generation unscathed (that is, if this isn't an elaborate ruse to get Jon to the North without him being killed by the Unsullied, making him the Last of the Nights Watch). Neither will the other Kingdoms accept that curious status. Yara is thinking "WTF, we want that deal as well" right now, and the others won't be far behind once the shock of the last war subsides.

The wheel isn't broken, it was rebuilt with different spokes. Bran the Broken Builder Redux Edition is just the temporary stop-gap to let everybody breath again and prepare for the next wars. I don't think we are supposed to see it otherwise.

[schild]

lotta words to say bad ending

[Tebonas]

The ending feels more right that I dared hope being possible after the bullshit of the previous weeks. Its no Lost, its no Sopranos, and its no Dexter. It doesn't retroactively sour the whole series for me.

Thats a success for me.

[Khaldun]

It would have sat better if either we thought Tyrion's blather about stories was a deliberate cynical cover for the truth, which is that Bran's a neutral cipher with as much authority as an overcooked pasta noodle and therefore the lords of Westeros are otherwise free to do whatever they want OR if Bran showed even a hint that he had manipulated the whole thing (sort of like a Joe Abercrombie character ported over into GoT).

[Setanta]

Compared to the rest of the season, it was probably the best episode. But the rest of the season let it down badly.

I walked away from the episode the same way I did the last episode of Sons of Anarchy.

Not feeling much at all.

[Wasted]

Yawn

[satael]

Better than I feared but far worse than I hoped. Nothing that would make me want to go and rewatch the show from the start.

[Ceryse]

It would have sat better if either we thought Tyrion's blather about stories was a deliberate cynical cover for the truth, which is that Bran's a neutral cipher with as much authority as an overcooked pasta noodle and therefore the lords of Westeros are otherwise free to do whatever they want OR if Bran showed even a hint that he had manipulated the whole thing (sort of like a Joe Abercrombie character ported over into GoT).

This was one of my main issues with the finale. That and the North staying independent. Really? In what world in which the North stays independent does the Iron Islands stay 'loyal'? Or Dorne? Or anyone, really, since Bran has the charisma and authority of a, well, crippled nobody that has done fuck all to 'earn' the position or respect of others? By having the North stay independant guarantees wars for independence/throne within a generation, if not sooner; probably leading to more death and destruction than the entirety of of show.

That and Bronn ending up as Master of Coin. Really?

I mean, sure, the finale could have been worse.. but I wouldn't call it of 'good', 'satisfying', 'logical', or even 'meh'. It is bad, but not horrible. This season, even with six episodes, could have been much better if they had merely followed a semi-rational extension of character arcs and motivations from the previous seasons. Of course, Bran wouldn't be  the Useless King at the end of it all, which would have gone against what Martin planned; but so what? It isn't like Martin will ever finish writing the books anyways (no great loss, imo, though; I don't see him as a great writer anyways -- I never did manage to get past book one before tossing it aside with a 'well, that's shit').

[schild]

Bran was a shitty character when they had books to follow. He was all but forgotten once they got past the books until the last 2 seasons and even then he was just sitting around being a handicapped nuisance. I'm not sure symbolically what his importance was for GRRM but I wouldn't trust a single human who watched this show and said "my favorite character was Bran."

(no great loss, imo, though; I don't see him as a great writer anyways -- I never did manage to get past book one before tossing it aside with a 'well, that's shit').

That's me also. I'm genuinely not sure what got people through the first 100 pages. Like, what motivation does someone dig up to say "600 more pages of this is how I want to spend my time" and then do it a bunch more times. What compelled them through it?

[Tale]

I liked it all. Everyone else shut up.

[Shannow]

Well in a show that was all about subverting tropes, isn't putting the weird cripple kid on the throne the last subversion.  It's now become popular to hate on the show. Ending was fine, not great, but better that what we could've hoped for considering the last episode. I'll miss this show.

[HaemishM]

Look, my disgust at the ending is not about "it's cool to hate on the show now." That's a bullshit tactic to shut down an argument. I was with this show, despite some bad writing, right up until the moment they killed the second dragon in the most idiotic, nonsensical way possible. From that moment, everything went into a nosedive faster than the dragon fell into the drink.

Just a list of nonsensical bullshit from the last episode:

Bran being king - WTF? Why? There was nothing the character had done that earned that. He kind of vaguely mumbled some shit about the Night King while basically being a worm on a hook. He didn't tell them how to defeat the Night King, or about dragonglass or Valyrian steel killing the undead. The most "storytelling" he did was about Jon's true lineage, which amounted to fuckall in the grand scheme other than causing Dany to get all paranoid about a challenge to her throne. Had Bran maybe in 8 seasons demonstrated any real hidden or valuable knowledge or some kind of leadership, it would have made some sense, but the character hasn't earned that respect in any way.

The Night's Watch - why is there even a Night's Watch? There's nothing to guard so far as we know. Hell, there's a giant hole in the wall and it can't be rebuilt because the wall was made with magic. If it was just a fakeout to get Grey Worm and the Unsullied to fuck off, that wasn't made clear at all.

Arya - So as cliched as it might have been to have Arya be the one to kill Dany, I'm fine with all that setup from last issue being a fake out to make people think she'd kill Dany then not have her do it. However, if you aren't going to use that setup for SOMETHING, it was all wasted. She did literally NOTHING in this episode. Have her assassinate Grey Worm, or the dragon or I don't know, DO FUCKING SOMETHING. Instead, she just sits around and tells Jon to believe in the power of feelings. And her final act is... to fuck off on a boat for the frontier? ... the fuck? Have we been given any evidence she wants to explore? Any reason to think she's qualified to captain a ship? It just comes out of nowhere and makes no sense.

Drogon - or whatever the last dragon's name is. He comes in to see his mommy killed and his reaction is to burn the throne? Incidentally, the dragon nudging Dany with his nose was the most emotionally impacting scene in the whole fucking episode to me. Everything else was just flat. Do we have any indication that the dragon would even know the importance or relevance of the Iron Throne? I mean, yeah, I get the symbolism TO THE SHOW but to the dragon, it's just nonsensical. And then his response is to pick up Mommy and fuck off? Because... reasons? THAT was some lazy ass writing, knowing they didn't have the budget to have another dragon fight or the writing chops to come up with a good exit for the dragon.

Bronn - making Bronn master of coin was a good idea, but it comes so far out of the blue that it feels odd. The council meeting was only the 3rd scene we'd had with him in the entire last 6 episodes, from a character that is both a fan favorite and an interesting character. It was an utter waste.

The North as an independent kingdom - Ok, just from a political viewpoint, it makes no goddamn sense. Why would the other 6 kingdoms agree to that? Furthermore, why would Sansa choose it? Sure, she was worried about what Dany would do to the North, but she should have no worries that Bran, her beloved brother, would fuck the North over. If anything, it makes more sense for the Iron Islands to go independent or Dorne than for the North. And as a writer, I can't think of one reason you'd do it that way. It leaves a whole big dangling plot point that... oh, I see, another goddamn spinoff show. Yeah, no, fuck that. Bad writing is bad.

The Unsullied - Banish Jon, release Tyrion and despite us wanting to kill both of them for their part in Dany's death, yeah we'll just fuck off to Naath. Seeing as how Grey Worm was in an all-fired hurry to execute grunts who fought for Cersei in the streets, why would he not just straight up execute Jon when he found out about Dany's death?

There was just so much wrong with that episode. Incidentally, Jon being the one to kill Dany was perfectly acceptable. I wish there'd been more emotional weight to it because unlike when Arya ganked the Night King, I just kind of shrugged when this happened. I'll chalk that up to Dany's quick turn to the dark side as the reason.

It doesn't diminish the series as a whole to me. I still love the series and still love the first 3 books. Should Fat Bastard finish the other 2 books, I'll likely read them too. But man, was this ending an utter shitshow.

[kaid]

Unless I misunderstood he basically "Fuck the Night's Watch, I'm with the Free People now!"

Yup and really there was no reason for him to not go that way. Nobody is going to chase him past the wall the unsullied are already gone and who knows what the dorthraki will do probably go back to where they came from. He has friends among the freefolk why not just go to live among them and help protect them as best he can.

[HaemishM]

I have no problem with Jon going to live with the free folk, it just would have been nice if I knew where he was actually going. Just wandering? Are there even enough free folk for a settlement?

I'm certainly not the guy to expect that everything be explained, but sometimes just one line of dialogue can make all the difference. We're at Damon Lindeloff levels of "just don't explain anything" on some of these character arcs.

[kaid]

ok seriously how can you like bran the broken

best story in the 7 kingdoms, first of his name, brother of a 3 people with better stories

Honestly I kinda liked it in that it made a lot of his subtle comments in retrospect look more like he was just setting the pieces up on the board to get the outcome he wanted. Given he has all the memories of the children of the forrest having him be the king of the 6 kingdoms is kinda like the ultimate FU to the people who invaded them and cut their trees down. Plus given all the shit the kid has seen throughout history he at least has more first hand knowledge of all the ways kings can fuck up so maybe winds up being a decent if weird king.

[kaid]

I have no problem with Jon going to live with the free folk, it just would have been nice if I knew where he was actually going. Just wandering? Are there even enough free folk for a settlement?

I'm certainly not the guy to expect that everything be explained, but sometimes just one line of dialogue can make all the difference. We're at Damon Lindeloff levels of "just don't explain anything" on some of these character arcs.

Because of jon's actions most of the women/kids from the free folks that made it to the wall got past it. Hard  to say how many died in the night kings assault on winterfel but it seems like overall the casualties from that were not anywhere as bad as they seemed givent he force that Jon lead south.

It seemed reasonably obvious that the free folk were going north to go back to their home ranges and rebuild and it looked like jon was going to assist/help. I think the nightwatch probably does keep being a think remember it had been 1000 years since the previous night king assault so for many centuries people kept getting sent to the watch that everybody "knew" were useless. It was just a dumping ground for bastards and broken men that for some reason you could not justify killing but did not want around.  A very cold australia.

[IainC]

"We need a new Master of Whisperers."

Why? Bran can just go "Hey I wonder what <any random person in the world> is up to and if they are doing shit that they shouldn't? I'll just go check."

[Riggswolfe]

Drogon - or whatever the last dragon's name is. He comes in to see his mommy killed and his reaction is to burn the throne? Incidentally, the dragon nudging Dany with his nose was the most emotionally impacting scene in the whole fucking episode to me. Everything else was just flat. Do we have any indication that the dragon would even know the importance or relevance of the Iron Throne? I mean, yeah, I get the symbolism TO THE SHOW but to the dragon, it's just nonsensical. And then his response is to pick up Mommy and fuck off? Because... reasons? THAT was some lazy ass writing, knowing they didn't have the budget to have another dragon fight or the writing chops to come up with a good exit for the dragon.

I won't touch on your other points because I disagree with most of them and it's all just opinion though sidenote: Jon didn't go back to the Night Watch. That was the deal that was reached but he crossed the wall and went to the True North. I suspect in a few months they'll find Castle Black empty and go "huh, well, good for him I guess."

But Drogon is actually explainable depending on how you view the bond Targaryens have with their dragons. It's not real clear in the show but the books drop hints about how warging and bonding with animals works. It's not just a quick connection, there's a bit of a soul exchange or at least a sort of melding of minds. Drogon knew Dany was dead before he ever saw it because he felt it. That's why he starts roaring even though he can't see what happened. The part of Dany in Drogon spared Jon but destroyed the throne because if she didn't have it, no one would.

So, if you're just a show watcher this was a WTF? moment. But if you read the books closely it's clear what happened.

"Wolves and women wed for life," Haggon often said. "You take one, that's a marriage. The wolf is part of you from that day on, and you're part of him. Both of you will change."

[HaemishM]

I've read the books. Warging is barely explained in them at all, and what we know is pretty sparse. In addition, we don't really get the warging vibe from Dany and the dragons. It's always treated as more of a "mother of dragons" thing. I don't ever remember the Targaryens being called wargs.

[Teleku]

"We need a new Master of Whisperers."

Why? Bran can just go "Hey I wonder what <any random person in the world> is up to and if they are doing shit that they shouldn't? I'll just go check."

Lol, had the same thoughts.  Actually, my first thought was that they were literally creating the God Emperor on the Golden Throne.  The Three Eyed raven lived for hundreds of years because he had grown into his root throne and was all powerful.  Nothing stops Bran from doing the same.  He literally can become all seeing god emperor literally watching over every person at every moment in the realm.  I can not be the only person to think Warhammer 40K when that happened....please?

I've read the books. Warging is barely explained in them at all, and what we know is pretty sparse. In addition, we don't really get the warging vibe from Dany and the dragons. It's always treated as more of a "mother of dragons" thing. I don't ever remember the Targaryens being called wargs.

You need to re-read the books.  Warging and everything about it is explained at great depth, particularly in the latest book (as a matter of fact, its almost assured that Johns mind will go into a wolf after he dies, and will be there until he rezz'ed somehow).  What Riggswolfe says is hypothetically possible if you include the book stuff, and would be a great way to read that scene.  But since they never explained all that, and much of the book stuff I bring up that tears apart the show narrative is discounted because its not show canon, I'm going to have to take that as non-canon.  It's a nice thought, but I honestly think the writers were just like "And Drogon decides to teach Jon Snow that the lust for power was the real enemy all along, before picking up his mum and flying her off to a hill to bury her with some flower somewhere."