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Author Topic: Game of Thrones  (Read 359277 times)
Tale
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Reply #5635 on: August 29, 2017, 12:33:50 AM


"The more we talk about less important things, the less we talk about more important things."
eldaec
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Reply #5636 on: August 29, 2017, 03:53:40 AM

I like the Iron Bank sends the Golden Company to loot KL theory. That would be fun. It would be interesting if Cersei then has to flee north with her few remaining loyalists and that's how she ends up re-encountering her now-bitter enemies.


Wasn't the Golden Company in the books a bunch of displaced former Westeros noblemen who were loyal to the Targaryens or something like that?

To the Blackfyres. They come back with Fakegon because they probably got the real story.

And to clarify further. The blackfyres were Targ bastards who founded the company. The current Company is made up of westerosi exiles and their sons.

Some people think Varys is a Blackfyre.

Having a Lannister crown hiring the golden company to fight against a Targ restoration seems on a par with Cersei's excellent decision to allow the Faith Militant to take up arms. Not because they are pro-Targ so much as because many of them feel aggrieved about being exiled in the first place. When the book Golden Company arrive in westeros they do so after breaking a contract for the first time in their history and they are led by men exiled after Robert's Rebellion.  They are written as having an inflated sense of their own importance and honour - but also as being an extremely professional and effective military force.

The last time they were in Westeros was 40 years ago. They were trying to overthrow Jaehaerys II and install one of their own Blackfyre commanders as king. Ser Barristan supposedly killed the last Company Blackfyres during the campaign.

I can't decide if I think Cersei bringing them specifically is a way to mess with books readers or because they are bringing some plot along with them.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 04:03:05 AM by eldaec »

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Reply #5637 on: August 29, 2017, 05:29:04 AM

Well, since threy have given no background to the Golden Company, and have precious few episodes left to give even more back story, I think it's safe to assume the TV version will just be a normal mercenary company.  If my betrayal theory holds true, it may be to bring a major future book plot point back around to the TV.  When we last left off, the Golden Company had successfully launched an invasion, and where gathering their forces to march on Kingslanding.  In the next book, they may actually take/sack it, forcing Cersei to flee.  Just in time for the long night to hit in full force.

Also, again, the only damn thing that came about from that grand mission north of the wall was give the nights king a dragon.  That zombie did not actually get cersei on their side, and she is sending nobody north.  And the nights king had no way to get past the wall until he got that dragon.  The Lord of Light is a dick.

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eldaec
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Reply #5638 on: August 29, 2017, 05:56:40 AM

I can't see book golden company and fake Aegon taking KL from Cersei, because I do not see how you position them as a "younger more beautiful queen".

Possibly if they switch to Dany at some point.

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Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #5639 on: August 29, 2017, 08:37:00 AM

Well, since threy have given no background to the Golden Company, and have precious few episodes left to give even more back story, I think it's safe to assume the TV version will just be a normal mercenary company. 

The background is with the Iron Bank, who is sponsoring the deal to to hire them. Seems like they have laid some groundwork for this on the TV show.
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Reply #5640 on: August 29, 2017, 08:38:32 AM

Also, Jamie really will kill Cersei now, no?

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Reply #5641 on: August 29, 2017, 08:53:47 AM

The background is with the Iron Bank, who is sponsoring the deal to to hire them. Seems like they have laid some groundwork for this on the TV show.
Yes, but I mean like, suddenly revealing that the Golden Company is run by former lords who fled after Robert's Rebellion, and have designs about restoring a Targaryen to the throne, and ect ect.

I cannot imagine them giving any extra screen time to revealing stuff like that.  So its just going to be a normal merc company from the continent of bad accents, with none of the book backstory.
I can't see book golden company and fake Aegon taking KL from Cersei, because I do not see how you position them as a "younger more beautiful queen".

Possibly if they switch to Dany at some point.
Eh, that ones hard.  Margaery could actually still be the one she talked about, as she's still alive and well in the books.  We have no idea if the book will kill her off like the TV show did.  Maybe she'll be successful in ousting Cersei, only to have the Golden Company show up right after.  Not to mention that there are a lot of other theories out there about the younger one not being Dany.  That prophecy is still way up in the air at this point.

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Speedy Cerviche
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Reply #5642 on: August 29, 2017, 10:59:47 AM

The background is with the Iron Bank, who is sponsoring the deal to to hire them. Seems like they have laid some groundwork for this on the TV show.
Yes, but I mean like, suddenly revealing that the Golden Company is run by former lords who fled after Robert's Rebellion, and have designs about restoring a Targaryen to the throne, and ect ect.

I cannot imagine them giving any extra screen time to revealing stuff like that.  So its just going to be a normal merc company from the continent of bad accents, with none of the book backstory.

Oh yeah that's what I was trying to get at, that's all out, no way that comes in now. GRRM spent like half of ADOD going deep into that and it was all a big fake out.

It can't be a coincidence that both GRRM and the TV writers have the Golden Company converging on KL, through very different plotlines. Has to be a reason to drop an elite foreign army of 20,000 on the capital, so one has to assume there is a big violent event involving it coming up.

Oh yeah and I had forgotten that Varys wasn't even with Danaerys. Maybe that's why he doesn't have much to say or do on the show, in the books he wasn't even part of her court, he was with the fake pretender. I guess he has something to do towards the end which is why they are keeping him around, but a convoluted plot he was involved with in the books was edited out.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 11:03:03 AM by Speedy Cerviche »
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Reply #5643 on: August 29, 2017, 11:06:36 AM

How did Beric end up with 200 status points?!?

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Reply #5644 on: August 29, 2017, 11:32:47 AM

Dammit Jaime!  One more good zinger and you'd have won it for me.

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Reply #5645 on: August 29, 2017, 11:39:53 AM

How did Beric end up with 200 status points?!?

Magic  awesome, for real

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Reply #5646 on: August 29, 2017, 01:29:00 PM

How did Beric end up with 200 status points?!?
[/quote

No one knows, the LoL just wanted it that way.

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Reply #5647 on: August 29, 2017, 01:38:07 PM

How did Beric end up with 200 status points?!?

Magic  awesome, for real

Yeah, each time he lit his sword he got points. Plus multiple violence points for the wright slaughter.

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Reply #5648 on: August 29, 2017, 02:35:04 PM

The background is with the Iron Bank, who is sponsoring the deal to to hire them. Seems like they have laid some groundwork for this on the TV show.
Yes, but I mean like, suddenly revealing that the Golden Company is run by former lords who fled after Robert's Rebellion, and have designs about restoring a Targaryen to the throne, and ect ect.

I cannot imagine them giving any extra screen time to revealing stuff like that.  So its just going to be a normal merc company from the continent of bad accents, with none of the book backstory.

I agree they won't explain it - though s1 and s2 introduced far more complicated shit in less time.

But if they turn out to be at all important in doing something besides acting as Varys'/Fakegon's generic army in the books, I wouldn't be shocked if the tv writers decide to have them do whatever they need to do anyway without explaining why. Or giving them a stupid alternative motivation for it.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 02:55:04 PM by eldaec »

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Threash
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Reply #5649 on: August 29, 2017, 03:52:50 PM

I thought it was less that his plans were shit, more that his boss was too impatient to let his plans come to fruition.

You will probably enjoy this article: https://www.vox.com/culture/2017/8/28/16205048/game-of-thrones-season-7-cersei-daenerys-jon-snow


Why does everyone keep saying Littlefinger got outsmarted by Sansa and Arya? Littlefinger died because Bran can literally see anything he wants. There is no outsmarting that. Sansa and Arya acted out their parts wonderfully, but Bran is the one who fucked him and there was absolutely no chance of beating him.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2017, 03:57:15 PM by Threash »

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eldaec
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Reply #5650 on: August 29, 2017, 04:16:34 PM

Tbh on tv we didn't see him get outsmarted at all. Sansa just decided to kill him and apparently got Royce on board off screen. As Royce always hated Littlefinger that wasn't very hard I imagine.

Littlefinger's hold over the Vale is based on his control of Robin Arryn and the knights' loyalty to Robin, Royce originally refused to follow Littlefinger until Littlefinger had Arryn threaten Royce. It always seemed ridiculous for tv Littlefinger to have left Robin in the Vale as it opened him up to the utter contempt Royce has always held for Baelish.

We never saw sansa or bran outmaneuver him.

It was a neat scene played well without any of the groundwork or clever plotting that might have made it interesting.

My main emotion was relief that we weren't going to be subjected to another emo-sister sequence.

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Reply #5651 on: August 29, 2017, 04:21:32 PM

Of course you never saw Bran outmaneuver him, the moment you saw Bran you'd know he was absolutely fucked and would have taken away all the drama from that storyline. But seeing But the second you saw Bran at that hearing should have been when you realized it was all a huge set up and Littlefinger was fucked. When do think Bran told Sansa and Arya what really happened to their father? i seriously doubt it was right before that hearing. They've known all along Littlefinger betrayed their father and got him killed, that means the whole Sansa/Arya thing was a setup from the get go.

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Morat20
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Reply #5652 on: August 29, 2017, 05:34:36 PM

Random thought: Cersei's little unborn child possibly Cthulu monster kills her during pregnancy"

"You have three kids, all of whom will die. Then the fourth will kill you and be born stillborn, because you are a heinous bitch and also it's ironic because that's why your Mom died and why you hate Tyrion. You lose."

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Reply #5653 on: August 29, 2017, 06:12:20 PM

that means the whole Sansa/Arya thing was a setup from the get go

For whom?  Baelish doesn't witness the Sansa/Arya dialogue... only we the hapless hostage viewers.  Which means that the TV writers are writing as if we are characters to be fooled, not readers to be enlightened. 

We've left off the tale and are now just in it for the ride.
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Reply #5654 on: August 29, 2017, 07:21:14 PM

that means the whole Sansa/Arya thing was a setup from the get go

For whom?  Baelish doesn't witness the Sansa/Arya dialogue... only we the hapless hostage viewers.  Which means that the TV writers are writing as if we are characters to be fooled, not readers to be enlightened. 

We've left off the tale and are now just in it for the ride.

Yes, that was simply bad writing or a lot less... confrontational than it looked.

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Reply #5655 on: August 29, 2017, 08:07:20 PM

TV writers writing a TV show, to be shown on TV, write episodes like TV shows.  Shocking.

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Reply #5656 on: August 29, 2017, 09:21:01 PM

But they weren't doing that before.  It was great TV because writing a second draft of GoT meant it wasn't being written like a standard TV show.  Its really jarring to see how the writing was in the first half of the show, compared to what its become in the second half.  Without GRRM to guide them, they've devolved back to the most basic lazy level of TV writing.  SAD!
How did Beric end up with 200 status points?!?
No one knows, the LoL just wanted it that way.
Nah, it was from the pre-approved point structure from the get go unfortunately.  50 points for using magic.  So, in the beyond the wall episode, Beric lit his sword on fire three separate times, netting him 150 points.  The same amount of points The Nights King got for killing a dragon.

 Ohhhhh, I see.

Hopefully they adjust the use of magic points, since I imagine a whole lot of magic is going to fly around next season.

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Reply #5657 on: August 29, 2017, 09:41:30 PM

GRRM was a TV writer before he started writing books. His input since the show has started has been more and more towards TV style. Hell the last book was pretty meh in terms of useful narrative shit too.

These guys running the shows are TV hacks, but Martin is a TV hack too.

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Reply #5658 on: August 29, 2017, 11:13:31 PM

There have been TV beats and set ups in every season of the show. People look back on prior seasons with rose colored glasses if you ask me. Its always been pretty shlocky with lots of shmuck-bait (an actual screenwriter term).  It just had the benefit of people being able ladle their own deeper book knowledge over the top of it like gravy. Mmmmm, gravy.

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Reply #5659 on: August 30, 2017, 12:45:17 AM

Had this been a full length season with horseshit filler (and it still had horseshit filler, just way less); the jarring bits would have been less jarring. ESPECIALLY TRAVEL TIMES.
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Reply #5660 on: August 30, 2017, 01:02:31 AM

IMHO that wasn't a setup from the go, Littlefinger was overplaying his hand.

As dumb as it makes the Stark kids seem before that, the moment it fell apart was when Littlefinger gave Sansa his final lesson - assuming the worst in people and going from there.

I think that was when Sansa realized there is little that Arya gives less shit about that being Lady of Winterfell, whereas Littlefinger was power hungry from the start. Thats when he was doomed. Her "I am a slow learner, but I am learning" speech at the end confirmed that theory for me.
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Reply #5661 on: August 30, 2017, 06:22:14 AM

People seem to think Sansa just realised this episode.  I don't think that's true at all.  Bitch has been on to him for ages.

It took him overplaying it with Maisie and Branflakes and his amazing visions for her to decide to end it is all.

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Reply #5662 on: August 30, 2017, 09:06:37 AM

For all we know, Sansa was weighing the real possibility of marrying Littlefinger in order to solidify her own hold over both the North and the Vale before her siblings showed up.
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Reply #5663 on: August 30, 2017, 10:27:31 AM

Maybe so, but you'd still think she'd do it with eyes open.

She's been through a lot.

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Reply #5664 on: August 30, 2017, 10:56:02 AM

That could as well be, but why the slow learner comment if she had caught Littlefingers ploy early?
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Reply #5665 on: August 30, 2017, 11:10:49 AM

That could as well be, but why the slow learner comment if she had caught Littlefingers ploy early?
Littlefinger has been her "friend" since Daddy got his head chopped off. She could have known for years and still think herself a slow learner for not knowing sooner.
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Reply #5666 on: August 30, 2017, 11:27:59 AM

She wasn't too thrilled with him even last season since the whole sellout to Bolton, and IIRC she was hesitating on his offer of the Vale helping them up north vs. Bolton until she finally accepted when there was no other way. This season for that reason she accepted his necessity at Winterfell as part of the Vale armies but clearly wasn't too interested in him personally or his creepy propositions.

I'm sure there's some subtle moment earlier in the season people will be able to pinpoint as the switch where Sansa, Arya and Bran have set out to nail LF, I just can't be arsed to go re-watch the episodes looking for it.
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Reply #5667 on: August 30, 2017, 11:53:29 AM

That could as well be, but why the slow learner comment if she had caught Littlefingers ploy early?
Littlefinger has been her "friend" since Daddy got his head chopped off. She could have known for years and still think herself a slow learner for not knowing sooner.

Yeah, this.  I would imagine, despite knowing him at this stage, some of Brans absolute truths might have shocked her.  I can imagine her being told the graphic details of his involvement in the end of Poor Ned.  After all, she was forced to watch the guys head come off.

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Reply #5668 on: August 30, 2017, 02:52:32 PM

Honestly, I had the feeling Littlefinger was going down and I had the same feeling about the priest dude. They are both unimportant enough to whack. Now that the focus is white walkers, scheming between the houses is kinda obsolete...both their deaths had no teeth. Neither hurt. Neither was like, OMG they killed off -insert name here-

It was a couple guys who had served their purpose long ago and really weren't all that interesting anymore. I liked Littlefinger's character but he was going nowhere.

They shoulda killed off that whole group of adventurers. In a brutal struggle. The kind where when each of em gets killed you are like.....NOOOOO. And you walk away shocked and a little pissed. They should have died for being on a moronic quest and not saying 'Hey, this is a moronic quest'.


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Reply #5669 on: August 30, 2017, 03:14:12 PM

Tbh on tv we didn't see him get outsmarted at all. Sansa just decided to kill him and apparently got Royce on board off screen. As Royce always hated Littlefinger that wasn't very hard I imagine.

Littlefinger's hold over the Vale is based on his control of Robin Arryn and the knights' loyalty to Robin, Royce originally refused to follow Littlefinger until Littlefinger had Arryn threaten Royce. It always seemed ridiculous for tv Littlefinger to have left Robin in the Vale as it opened him up to the utter contempt Royce has always held for Baelish.

We never saw sansa or bran outmaneuver him.

It was a neat scene played well without any of the groundwork or clever plotting that might have made it interesting.

My main emotion was relief that we weren't going to be subjected to another emo-sister sequence.



Apparently there was a scene that got cut but it was the sansa vs arya thing coming to a head only to have bran interject a lot of truth bombs about littlefinger and how he was tied to every terrible thing that has happened.  Kinda sad they cut it because bran being useful instead of just weird and cryptic would have been a nice change.
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