Mageing QQ

[Nebu]

A part of how good you are is how good the people around you are.

The better players will get through an instance despite the fact they are carrying a lousy player or two on their backs. 

[Ingmar]

A part of how good you are is how good the people around you are.

The better players will get through an instance despite the fact they are carrying a lousy player or two on their backs. 

When you get into a hard 5 man instance those albatrosses can get really heavy, though.

[Rasix]

Or even a 10 man.  Not to mention bad players usually get themselves or someone else killed, which changes everything. 

"Ok Glaaki, two dps down, time to triple your output!"

In 40 man raids, I could basically mentally take the night off and we'd still be fine. There were people that would place so far down the DPS or healing meters that they were obviously doing something else while randomly pressing a single key during an entire encounter.

[Sjofn]

I now fully expect raiding 201 to include jumping puzzles.

  Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo. 

I have no idea what I do DPS-wise. I really need to get a meter. I do know that I at least beat the tanks, which is my current measuring stick.    Unless it's some stupid AE-fest while I'm fucking around with blood spec and we have some cheater paladin tank.

[Soulflame]

DPS meter - Recount.

It's hard to judge your DPS outside of an actual raid, the best you can do is go hit a heroic dummy for a while.  If you're hitting around 1600 DPS, you should be fine.

There's also this resource.  Warning - forum full of insane glass chewers.

[Fordel]

There are many different reasons for the DPS fail.


Some folks are still fresh 80's, otherwise competent folks who are in desperate need of upgrades. People still wearing TBC gear are going to have shitty DPS in WotLK. (and I mean like, Kara gear, not Sunwell stuff) Once they finally GET upgrades, they'll be fine. It's just a slow process due to limited play time and random loot is random.

Some folks have pretty dang good gear, spent a lot of effort and time ensuring it was the best they could get, enchants and gems and the whole deal. Yet the new DPS 'interactivity' for all specs is just completely confusing and throwing them off. It'll take them a lot longer to figure it out then most. But they'll get up there... eventually.

Then you have the folks, who can't figure out which piece of tier armor is for their spec or who don't see the problem with using a main hand dagger and off hand mace, while being sword specced.  We try to help and guide these folks... but... 

[Merusk]

People still wearing kara gear just need to be slapped. There were quest upgrades to Kara gear within the first zone.

[Sjofn]

I couldn't find a damn upgrade for my phoenix bow for my hunter the entire way up, so ... it's not like EVERYTHING was replaceable right off. Now I'm 80 so I can get faction guns (waaaah, guns) at least.

[Modern Angel]

People still wearing kara gear just need to be slapped. There were quest upgrades to Kara gear within the first zone.

Don't go getting all elitist now.

[Rasix]

You have the night off or something? 

[Sheepherder]

It's not hard to fathom this if the person is in a mix of blue and green quest rewards, a few crafted pieces and maybe a couple instance drops.  Your dps is also dependent on raid make up, type of fight and a number of other considerations including well.. how much you tend to raid.

They're currently:

1601 Spell Power
18.67% Spell Crit
14.94% Spell Hit
8.72% Haste

[Rasix]

Armory link? I'm intrigued.

[Phred]

I couldn't find a damn upgrade for my phoenix bow for my hunter the entire way up, so ... it's not like EVERYTHING was replaceable right off. Now I'm 80 so I can get faction guns (waaaah, guns) at least.

You missed a few quests then. You can get upgrades for the Phoenix bow as early as Zul Drak from a trivially easy quest.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39829

If  you didn't do the Nessingwary chain in Scholazar, your loss I'm afraid.
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12614

[K9]

It's hard to judge your DPS outside of an actual raid, the best you can do is go hit a heroic dummy for a while.  If you're hitting around 1600 DPS, you should be fine.

Training dummies are ok, but don't expect to equal the DPS you see on those in any fight where there is movement, which is almost any fight in Naxx. Getting recount is a really good idea, as it is an incredibly good tool and invaluable for letting you know how you and your groupmates are doing.

A part of how good you are is how good the people around you are.

The better players will get through an instance despite the fact they are carrying a lousy player or two on their backs. 

As Rasix says, it gets harder the smaller the instance, and if you have some bad players not keeping up key buffs/debuffs, then the good players will never be able to reach their full potential.

[Merusk]

People still wearing kara gear just need to be slapped. There were quest upgrades to Kara gear within the first zone.

Don't go getting all elitist now.

Poor, poor put-on MA. 

Nah, elitist would have been saying, "L2P asshats. That means learning where the gear upgrades are, too."

It's hard to judge your DPS outside of an actual raid, the best you can do is go hit a heroic dummy for a while.  If you're hitting around 1600 DPS, you should be fine.

Training dummies are ok, but don't expect to equal the DPS you see on those in any fight where there is movement, which is almost any fight in Naxx. Getting recount is a really good idea, as it is an incredibly good tool and invaluable for letting you know how you and your groupmates are doing.

Exactly.

Look, I know a lot of people have the attitude that meters are some eletist e-peen tool.  They can be, that's for certain, but the raid leader at the LEAST should be running one.  Recount in particular is fantastic for finding out why a fight went sideways.  There's a "Deaths" tracker that will give you a log of what killed each member, which is soooo fucking helpful when your tank gets instagibbed.  Open up his death meter for the last fight and you can see the last 20+ incoming (and outgoing) damage and healing sources, when they happened  and what % the tank was at.

It also helps to see if the healers are all mistakenly healing different folks or healing over top of each other. (Overhealing) Or if one of your DPS has decided to take a snooze and just tap a few keys, winding up behind the tanks at all times.  Even though the tanks are great at doing damage these days, NO DPS should be behind the tank on a raid. If they are you know that you, as a guild, need to get that guy better equipped.  Drag him in to a few heroics or something.  Ta-da it's also a tool for helping out your guildies.

[Dren]

I'm using recount and training dummies now to basically gage my improvement before I get into raids for each of my characters.  I know it is the "perfect" dps for my character, gear, talents, etc., but it helps me understand where I'm at compared to others.  It at least gives me the vocabulary I need to converse with others trying to their best to improve.

Also, if I see a huge drop from the training dummies to actual DPS I can start to ask the right questions about what spell/talent/technique I'm missing to avoid such a loss of DPS when it counts the most.  Positioning, power rotations, knowing when to use cooldowns, flasks to use, etc. all go a very long way to being the best at what you do in this game.  In fact, by using all of those other things, you should technically do BETTER DPS against true opponents.  Of course that exlcludes those encounters that make you run around not hitting anything for large periods of time, but it is all relative.

[Sjofn]

I couldn't find a damn upgrade for my phoenix bow for my hunter the entire way up, so ... it's not like EVERYTHING was replaceable right off. Now I'm 80 so I can get faction guns (waaaah, guns) at least.

You missed a few quests then. You can get upgrades for the Phoenix bow as early as Zul Drak from a trivially easy quest.
http://www.wowhead.com/?item=39829

If  you didn't do the Nessingwary chain in Scholazar, your loss I'm afraid.
http://www.wowhead.com/?quest=12614

The Zul'drak bow was a sidegrade at best, and I bought an AH blue bow by the time I did Nessingwary that was slightly better.

My point was that Kara epics could certainly last all the way to 80, although there is zero excuse to keep using them once 80 is achieved.

[Sheepherder]

Of course that exlcludes those encounters that make you run around not hitting anything for large periods of time, but it is all relative.

Recount has a ~3 second delay and then it stops incrementing your "time" variable in the DPS equation.  Thus if you're a class with few, low-damaging, long-lasting DoT's you're liable to get raped on movement intensive fights.

This is why you should ignore DPS for the most part and watch your "Damage Done" relative to the rest of the group.

@Rasix

Output might be different now, but I generally don't see her put out a lot of damage on any given fight.

[Fordel]

Of course, in AE heavy fights, Damage Done can be IMMENSELY inflated too. 

[Sheepherder]

In AE heavy fights DPS is also inflated.

[Fordel]

But not at the same rate damage is done. Which leads to amusing meters where the tank is #1 because you lack any real AE classes.