Mark Jacobs - Server Transfer Service Incoming

[trias_e]

Just did this for ulthuan.  Got 330.  Ulthuan is at medium pop, one of 26 that is.  There are 29 low pop servers.

This leads me to believe that Ulthuan is right in the middle, in other words, no man's land.  The bottom of the medium pop servers.  This means we won't be able to transfer off our server, and people aren't as likely to transfer to us as they are to the more popular servers.  I'm thinking more and more of trying destro on Skull Throne.  It or a few other options are pretty much the only way to play the game reasonably at this point.  Unfortunately, who knows what will happen in a few weeks.  Everything could change.  Talk about being in limbo.  I feel like I can't even log on.  I don't know whether I want to play my main on Ulthuan or whether I should reroll.

[trias_e]

Assuming (and that's a stretch) even populations it appears the most populated server has ~1600 players, while the lowest has 200 or less.

Considering that destro overpopulates order on almost every server, and that anonymous players dont show up on search results, these are certainly lowball estimates.  Still, for the low population servers, the game is just plain dead.

[tolakram]

My numbers were also just before prime time, so probably not representative of max pop.

[UnSub]

Probably they want more reliable and stable populations

What Mythic want and what Mythic get are two entirely different things.

My point was why aren't Mythic incentivising players to move servers? Hell, if you want more Order characters on a server, offer the bonus to attract them. They gave Destro bonuses out last wave too, so I'm sure there are some Order-overpopulated servers that need balancing. Inject a little bit of player management and work out what they are trying to achieve and put things in place to help them achieve it.

[UnSub]

Linky

Oh, and if add up all our hot fixes + patches, I think we will compare very nicely to every other MMO in terms of fixing and adjusting things.

Congrats on working to the AAA industry standard. However, if I add up all your hot fixes + patches, I'm still left with a game sorely lacking in players and dragged down by design flaws.

Based on what I've read on the boards here and elsewhere, I think we have just about every major issue either covered or we looking at how to do something about it.

So, which issues are covered and which issues are just being looked at? Because I'd hate to get my expectations up that something was covered when it was only being looked at.

3) Class balance issues - Lots and lots of stuff going in. Every class is getting looked at and will get love and some will get tough love. We are not afraid to make any changes we need to in order to balance things out between the classes. Some things will be added prior to 1.1 and other things may have to wait till 1.1 (new code).

Barring any improv (like a heckling match between you and Pardo, for instance - hey, there's an idea for next BlizzCon!), I think this will be the next source of world class lols. Feel free to prove me wrong - I'd look forward to it - but I think the adding of two new classes PLUS the rebalancing of a whole heap more is going to be an interesting experience for us on the sidelines.

4) Open RvR - We have already made changes and we're willing to make more changes as necessary.

It's necessary. Stated like this, it seems like ORvR changes aren't on the cards at this point. I'll take this as an example of an area "being looked at", not "covered".

And as I've said, we also expect to have more major content patches about every 3 months.

Some people have taken this as an indication WAR will see a major patch in December. That would seem like a completely stupid thing to do unless Mythic has cancelled everyone's Xmas leave, because if bugs slip through the cracks in a December patch they are probably going to be hanging around until mid-January when everyone gets back from their break. People won't be happy when their Xmas copy of WAR is impacted by bugs from a rushed patch developed by people already burned out by getting WAR launched.

Also: every 3 months from now Mythic is going to get hammered if their isn't a major content patch. Why? Because Mark Jacobs said that is when they would appear.

[Trippy]

And as I've said, we also expect to have more major content patches about every 3 months.

Some people have taken this as an indication WAR will see a major patch in December. That would seem like a completely stupid thing to do unless Mythic has cancelled everyone's Xmas leave, because if bugs slip through the cracks in a December patch they are probably going to be hanging around until mid-January when everyone gets back from their break. People won't be happy when their Xmas copy of WAR is impacted by bugs from a rushed patch developed by people already burned out by getting WAR launched.

Also: every 3 months from now Mythic is going to get hammered if their isn't a major content patch. Why? Because Mark Jacobs said that is when they would appear.

They don't have any choice with WotLK coming out -- they need to keep dangling carrots in front of their remaining players to keep them from cancelling before the end of the year.

Edit: from

[UnSub]

And as I've said, we also expect to have more major content patches about every 3 months.

Some people have taken this as an indication WAR will see a major patch in December. That would seem like a completely stupid thing to do unless Mythic has cancelled everyone's Xmas leave, because if bugs slip through the cracks in a December patch they are probably going to be hanging around until mid-January when everyone gets back from their break. People won't be happy when their Xmas copy of WAR is impacted by bugs from a rushed patch developed by people already burned out by getting WAR launched.

Also: every 3 months from now Mythic is going to get hammered if their isn't a major content patch. Why? Because Mark Jacobs said that is when they would appear.

They don't have any choice with WotLK coming out -- they need to keep dangling carrots in front of their remaining players to keep them from cancelling before the end of the year.

True.

I can't wait for Jacob's "our major content patch was better than WoW's major content release" post. Or vice versa.

[CecilDK]

Unfortunately, how well this game "works" is directly related to a certain density of people on a particular server, which puts them in a tough spot once WoTLK releases---because they will lose people no matter what.

So if they want new people to have a good experience, they're going to have to consolidate the servers to one extent or another---simply allowing people to self-select transfers isn't going to do much.

But of course, merging servers is extremely bad PR for any MMO.

Either way, they're in a tough spot.

[schild]

Either way, they're in a tough spot.

I see a lot of people saying things like "difficult position" and "tough spot."

No. This is wrong.

This isn't a tough spot, with how slow they're acting and the things they're doing - they are pretty much outright fucked.

[Gurney]

Either way, they're in a tough spot.

I see a lot of people saying things like "difficult position" and "tough spot."

No. This is wrong.

This isn't a tough spot, with how slow they're acting and the things they're doing - they are pretty much outright fucked.

Without good, solid, meaty RvR what draw does WAR have?  Not much.

Does WAR have good RvR right now?  No.


Does anyone seriously believe an MMO up against 2 expansions (MoM, WTOLK) 2 content updates (DDO, DOH), two killer RPG titles (Fable 2 and Fallout 3) is going to do ok come christmas without a major draw?

[khaine]

Either way, they're in a tough spot.

I see a lot of people saying things like "difficult position" and "tough spot."

No. This is wrong.

This isn't a tough spot, with how slow they're acting and the things they're doing - they are pretty much outright fucked.

Without good, solid, meaty RvR what draw does WAR have?  Not much.

Does WAR have good RvR right now?  No.


Does anyone seriously believe an MMO up against 2 expansions (MoM, WTOLK) 2 content updates (DDO, DOH), two killer RPG titles (Fable 2 and Fallout 3) is going to do ok come christmas without a major draw?

The only ones who do are the head in the sand crowd , I love the Warhammer IP , PvP/RvR , and am willing to tolerate reasonable bugs and "quirks" at launch of a mmorpg

But the sheer boredom of scenarios over and over and the obviously dwindling population for a game that needs high populated servers more than most to even function , has made me believe this ship may sink faster than many expect , just a matter of whether they acknowledge it or not

And finally , I saw the main mod/staff for VN boards WAR site make the "this is a fan site/board" post , a clear sign of impending things to come is when they go that route of trying to discourage criticism because it seems to be overtaking the positive posts

[Lantyssa]

And finally , I saw the main mod/staff for VN boards WAR site make the "this is a fan site/board" post , a clear sign of impending things to come is when they go that route of trying to discourage criticism because it seems to be overtaking the positive posts

Is Mythic aware their official boards got downgraded to a fansite?

[UnSub]

This isn't a tough spot, with how slow they're acting and the things they're doing - they are pretty much outright fucked.

I disagree - Mythic has been acting rapidly and repeatedly. Just in the wrong direction ("quick, get more servers online to reduce the queues!") and on the wrong things ("quick, buff the City encounters after some guilds have reached them!").

Who'd have thought that AoC would have some competition for 'Worst MMO Launch' this year?

[schild]

Neither "launch" was bad. It was the shit that came immediately after the launch. IMO, "launch" should refer only to the day a game opens to the public and both were smooth as silk - particularly WAR's early headstart/regular headstart periods.

[UnSub]

Neither "launch" was bad. It was the shit that came immediately after the launch. IMO, "launch" should refer only to the day a game opens to the public and both were smooth as silk - particularly WAR's early headstart/regular headstart periods.

'Launch Month' then?

I did think that launch applies to both the day they go public with the servers as well as the first month or so the title is available.

EDIT: 'Launch + 30 days'? 'Launch + 60 days'? I'm trying to think of a period of comparative evaluation that covers the launch experience for players, of which AoC must have had an absolute lock on Worst of 2008 until WAR came along. Technically, sure, WAR appears better than AoC (although the regular CTDs of WAR were no fun) but for both titles it didn't take long for the lack of clothes on the emperor to become apparent.

[Gurney]

I said it before in another thread;  they should do a 10x xp/renown ORvR only weekend. 

They can't fix RvR in time but they could get it a jump start.  That is all they need is to get things happening.  Game is good enough as is, if people are having fun.

Mythic seems intent on sucking the fun out of everything.  Mmmmmm more grind and buffs that don't pass the threshold of usefulness please!


I say they can't "fix" in time because the whole system is weak and lacks direction IMO.  It needs an overhaul.  It relies solely on people wanting to brawl and nothing else.

[waffel]

I don't understand how Mythic didn't see this coming. I mean, did they really expect all their servers to fill up and magically be at cap population but not too much population to have queues?

Based on the multiple numbers of PQs per chapters, the 20+ chapters, the fact there are 3 pairings turning it into 60+ chapters, the multiple open RvR pools which are never filled, the multiple scenarios, and the fact they wanted to have SIX main cities?

I mean jesus christ, they would need thousands of players on the servers to even fill up a fraction on the chapters, Open RvR pools and all but 1 of the scenarios per tier. Yet, they have servers hovering around 300 players total? What a fucking mess they got themselves into and server transfers isn't going to fix it unless they force low-pop players to transfer.

[Venkman]

They thought they had plenty of time to do population control. Not the first time they and others have made this mistake. And being so focused on DAoC and WAR, it makes it hard for them to really have the outsiders understanding of what people were saying in beta about this very thing.

[UnSub]

They thought they had plenty of time to do population control. Not the first time they and others have made this mistake. And being so focused on DAoC and WAR, it makes it hard for them to really have the outsiders understanding of what people were saying in beta about this very thing.

Really? How did they think they'd have time to sort out population issues? Because I could see the issue in the first play session I had that the world was large and empty, yet a number of systems (PQs and PvP) require large numbers of players being brought together to work.

[Herring]

Well, at the very least, they seemed to understand that they couldn't have more than one capital city per side.

Edit for outsiders: Prior to launch, they cut the other factions' capital cities so there would only be one for Order and one for Destruction.

[Pringles]

I said it before in another thread;  they should do a 10x xp/renown ORvR only weekend. 

They can't fix RvR in time but they could get it a jump start.  That is all they need is to get things happening.  Game is good enough as is, if people are having fun.

Mythic seems intent on sucking the fun out of everything.  Mmmmmm more grind and buffs that don't pass the threshold of usefulness please!


I say they can't "fix" in time because the whole system is weak and lacks direction IMO.  It needs an overhaul.  It relies solely on people wanting to brawl and nothing else.

Forcing more people to RVR wont make PVP happen.  There are incentives to NOT PVP in RVR.  If you defend you get jack, so let the opposing team cap it all then flip it all back for renown and phat lewtz.  Saves time and gets more rewards.

There's RVR happening without forcing people to do it or giving them pacifiers, its just basically glorified PVE with a random kill of a player here and there.  That one random dude who didn't get the memo: no one defends.

The game really needs a whole rework before RVR will be RVR, as it is now, its like you're playing on the DAoC coop server more often than not.

That's not to say RVR isn't happening at all, I'm sure it is on the highest pop servers, and I've seen some decent fights, but MOST of the time, its just PVE.

Also the whole boost RP/XP thing isn't that great because after prolonged RVR you hit the diminishing returns on kills anyways get 1rp/xp.

[rk47]

 all these complaints but how many of you actually play Open RvR isn't that actually what you wanted? To gank those guys while they're working on their PQs? I honestly enjoyed my time playing a runepreist running around with 3-4 of my friends just going around making people miserable. yes we're not getting great exp, but usually we move to other zone after 30 mins of ganking to 'refresh' the exp gains 

[Trippy]

Well, at the very least, they seemed to understand that they couldn't have more than one capital city per side.

Edit for outsiders: Prior to launch, they cut the other factions' capital cities so there would only be one for Order and one for Destruction.

Except those are going back in. They were cut out because they didn't have time to finish them before launch. Just like they cut out some of the classes.

[UnSub]

Well, at the very least, they seemed to understand that they couldn't have more than one capital city per side.

Edit for outsiders: Prior to launch, they cut the other factions' capital cities so there would only be one for Order and one for Destruction.

Except those are going back in. They were cut out because they didn't have time to finish them before launch. Just like they cut out some of the classes.

Exactly. It mostly appears that cutting the capital cities - thus making player populations more concentrated in the remaining two - was a luck decision.

[Zupa]

and yet... the average population of the ineviable city on Anlec server would appear to hover between 4 and 10, and it would be less if it wasn't for the 4 guys trying to find either the bank or the mount vendor.

(edit: typo)

[Herring]

Well, at the very least, they seemed to understand that they couldn't have more than one capital city per side.

Edit for outsiders: Prior to launch, they cut the other factions' capital cities so there would only be one for Order and one for Destruction.

Except those are going back in. They were cut out because they didn't have time to finish them before launch. Just like they cut out some of the classes.

I really can't see them putting those cities back in (within a "reasonable" timeframe anyway) when they're having issues consolidating the playerbase as it is.

[Trippy]

You could be right.

[khaine]

all these complaints but how many of you actually play Open RvR isn't that actually what you wanted? To gank those guys while they're working on their PQs? I honestly enjoyed my time playing a runepreist running around with 3-4 of my friends just going around making people miserable. yes we're not getting great exp, but usually we move to other zone after 30 mins of ganking to 'refresh' the exp gains 

I'd like to engage in this , but in later Tier3 and Tier 4 you'd come across maybe , maybe  , 4-5 players total across three zones actually out in the open areas

Everyone else is standing around the camp that gives the 25kill and scenario quest for those 25 to immediately turn back in

It's impossible to open RvR when there's no one , literally no one , there

[tolakram]

Link from a thread on that other board.

http://www.waralytics.com/warservers/index

Not sure what or how they are counting but these numbers seem extremely high.

[BitWarrior]

Link from a thread on that other board.

http://www.waralytics.com/warservers/index

Not sure what or how they are counting but these numbers seem extremely high.

Thread introducing it: http://www.warhammeralliance.com/forums/showthread.php?t=168843

Its a compilation of data from the warhammer herald

I think he likely means the data from the Realm War page. That being said, my 7 characters, of which my account was cancelled, are still being listed on the Realm War page. Thus, these numbers are greatly, greatly inflated, counting every single character made and not considering which accounts are closed.

[schild]

Those stats will never be even remotely correct. They are worse than anything Bruce would ever report.

[fuser]

Wouldn't be too hard to script it in lua to get an accurate count.. why even waste time doing the war realm page besides just getting a db of users to check...

[khaine]

Also anyone who paid for sub with a gamecard literally cannot "cancel" their account - they are 60 days cards so they will have inflated numbers for two more at least

I went and looked just to see if they had added a "why are you canceling" question , so I could remark on the lack of RvR , (they haven't btw) , and found out there is no cancel option for anyone who paid with a gamecard

And I suspect there are more than normal number of gamecard players , one, they put them out in bulk immediately at launch,  and secondly also made them "collectible Warhammer gamecards with 8 designs"

I bought one with my copy because I had tons of Best Buy reward bucks so it cost me nothing , plus a 12% coupon , I saw others buying them also maybe for same reason or maybe because they wanted the card itself

Either way they've got some guaranteed accounts for a couple months past the free month because you aren't allowed to cancel

[tolakram]

On numbers ...

while that db is incorrect, the numbers I provided are also incorrect.  Just as incorrect?  Don't know.  During any given moment the number of players logged in is far less than the total number of active accounts.

Is there some standard percentage that can be applied.   Statistics never lie, right?

[FellintoOblivion]

Also anyone who paid for sub with a gamecard literally cannot "cancel" their account - they are 60 days cards so they will have inflated numbers for two more at least

I went and looked just to see if they had added a "why are you canceling" question , so I could remark on the lack of RvR , (they haven't btw) , and found out there is no cancel option for anyone who paid with a gamecard

And I suspect there are more than normal number of gamecard players , one, they put them out in bulk immediately at launch,  and secondly also made them "collectible Warhammer gamecards with 8 designs"

I bought one with my copy because I had tons of Best Buy reward bucks so it cost me nothing , plus a 12% coupon , I saw others buying them also maybe for same reason or maybe because they wanted the card itself

Either way they've got some guaranteed accounts for a couple months past the free month because you aren't allowed to cancel

There are 30 day cards as well.