SWTOR

[Nebu]

Why?  In every other recent MMO there's absolutely no reason to do group content prior to max level.  Does TOR give us a viable reason to do group content prior to cap?  I'd love to see that.  

I have yet to play an MMO with a story compelling enough to make me want to keep reading.  Most are so trite that I lose interest immediately and commence the grind to cap so that I can pvp sooner.  

If SWTOR is an exception to this, I'd welcome it.  I'm not optimistic.  

[Nebu]

Social Points. Can't get 'em solo, and they unlock a wide variety of cosmetic-but-upgradeable gear later on down the line. Most people who want the stuff are going to end up having to run a billion flashpoints to get their Social rank up.

That's a wonderful idea.  I would gladly tolerate other players if it gave me some fun cosmetic (gear/pets) or mount related stuff.

[Draegan]

Do you mean grouping while leveling for flashpoints/heroic quests? Because you want to do that.

Why?  In every other recent MMO there's absolutely no reason to do group content prior to max level.  Does TOR give us a viable reason to do group content prior to cap?  I'd love to see that. 

There are instances.  There are open world "heroic" areas that all require a few people to complete.  (I know this because James Ohlen told me at PAX. )

[Amaron]

 Most are so trite that I lose interest immediately and commence the grind to cap so that I can pvp sooner.  

It's not like any of them up to now were really trying.   MMO's haven't even attempted basic story features yet.  WoW was considered extravagant for even bothering to write quests.  Nobody's really tried to move much beyond that either.

[Reg]

I have yet to play an MMO with a story compelling enough to make me want to keep reading.  Most are so trite that I lose interest immediately and commence the grind to cap so that I can pvp sooner. 

If SWTOR is an exception to this, I'd welcome it.  I'm not optimistic. 

You better hope you're wrong because aside from the story stuff I really don't think SWTOR offers anything new that your aren't already sick to death of in WoW and Lotro.

[Nebu]

You better hope you're wrong because aside from the story stuff I really don't think SWTOR offers anything new that your aren't already sick to death of in WoW and Lotro.

I'll pay $60 to run on a new model of the old treadmill for a month.  Anything beyond that is gravy.

[Ingmar]

I guess I just really don't understand the idea that character development prior to the endgame doesn't "count".

Consider WoW.  You level from 1-cap.  Once at cap, you are essentially reset to level 1 again just this time in terms of gear instead of a numerical value for level.  All the trip from 1-cap provided was a delay into entry to the new leveling treadmill.  I'd like the trip from 1-cap to contribute to my endgame treadmill, even if it's in a small way.  That's an incentive for me to group and meet people that I would otherwise avoid since I can almost always level faster solo than in a group.  

I just find that an utterly weird way to look at it. There's no reason, in my opinion, to treat going up an item level particularly differently from going up a character level, other than perhaps the method they expect you to use to accomplish it - hell, if you leveled entirely via PVP or instancing, even the method doesn't really change at cap. I mean in a sense, every level you gain means you're starting over from some other arbitrary new starting point. I just don't think the character development goal you set for yourself is undergoing some fundamental change that renders all prior progress meaningless when you change your objective from 'hit level X' to 'get object Y'. You still can't do the later one without the prior one. It's all the same.

[koro]

Social Points. Can't get 'em solo, and they unlock a wide variety of cosmetic-but-upgradeable gear later on down the line. Most people who want the stuff are going to end up having to run a billion flashpoints to get their Social rank up.

That's a wonderful idea.  I would gladly tolerate other players if it gave me some fun cosmetic (gear/pets) or mount related stuff.

There is actually a mount you can get with max social rank as well.

[luckton]

go solo to level 50, group up for the dungeons or quests that require it.

Do you mean grouping while leveling for flashpoints/heroic quests? Because you want to do that.

Indeed, but only once.  Same way I did WoW whenever I rolled a alt...I would do the dungeons as I leveled just once to knock out the quests within along with a chance of getting something to boost me.  If I didn't get any loot, no biggie, but usually the quests themselves would tide me over.

[Ginaz]

I guess I just really don't understand the idea that character development prior to the endgame doesn't "count".

Consider WoW.  You level from 1-cap.  Once at cap, you are essentially reset to level 1 again just this time in terms of gear instead of a numerical value for level.  All the trip from 1-cap provided was a delay into entry to the new leveling treadmill.  I'd like the trip from 1-cap to contribute to my endgame treadmill, even if it's in a small way.  That's an incentive for me to group and meet people that I would otherwise avoid since I can almost always level faster solo than in a group.  

I just find that an utterly weird way to look at it. There's no reason, in my opinion, to treat going up an item level particularly differently from going up a character level, other than perhaps the method they expect you to use to accomplish it - hell, if you leveled entirely via PVP or instancing, even the method doesn't really change at cap. I mean in a sense, every level you gain means you're starting over from some other arbitrary new starting point. I just don't think the character development goal you set for yourself is undergoing some fundamental change that renders all prior progress meaningless when you change your objective from 'hit level X' to 'get object Y'. You still can't do the later one without the prior one. It's all the same.

Gaining better gear, at least in WoW, allows you to access more content.  You can't que for dungeons unless you meet a minimum gear level.  

Oh, and I applied for BC last night under GinazResser if anyone will be kind enough to accept me.

[Ingmar]

Gaining better gear, at least in WoW, allows you to access more content.  You can't que for dungeons unless you meet a minimum gear level.  

Yes. Exactly like going up a level does.

[Murgos]

You better hope you're wrong because aside from the story stuff I really don't think SWTOR offers anything new that your aren't already sick to death of in WoW and Lotro.

I've been playing a lot of LotRO lately, based on the number of people I see everywhere I go in game so are a lot of people.  If SWTOR is just new shiney WoW with lasers and lazer swords with the same story depth of LotRO then it will be one of the best MMO's ever made.

[Rokal]

The only rewards are xp and loot.  I want something that I can't get solo that persists through endgame.

Rift does this with reputations. Most of the group content in the game (from level 1-50) gives you reputation with one of the end-game factions. Running dungeons while you level has a direct benefit at end-game, because you may be a little bit closer to those reputation rewards. That said, grinding reputations isn't really fun.

[luckton]

The only rewards are xp and loot.  I want something that I can't get solo that persists through endgame.

Rift does this with reputations. Most of the group content in the game (from level 1-50) gives you reputation with one of the end-game factions. Running dungeons while you level has a direct benefit at end-game, because you may be a little bit closer to those reputation rewards. That said, grinding reputations isn't really fun.

But it is one way that serves the purpose described.  How else do you work in something like that?

[Ginaz]

Gaining better gear, at least in WoW, allows you to access more content.  You can't que for dungeons unless you meet a minimum gear level.  

Yes. Exactly like going up a level does.

Considering you will likely spend most of your time at the level cap, it is somewhat different than leveling to the cap.  Your progress isn't as well defined as, say, going from level 1 to level 2.

[Malakili]

Gaining better gear, at least in WoW, allows you to access more content.  You can't que for dungeons unless you meet a minimum gear level.  

Yes. Exactly like going up a level does.

With the advent of ilevel as dungeon gate it is pretty darn close.
Considering you will likely spend most of your time at the level cap, it is somewhat different than leveling to the cap.  Your progress isn't as well defined as, say, going from level 1 to level 2.

[El Gallo]

It's different because you can (usually) skip a ton of item levels.

[Sky]

If SWTOR is an exception to this, I'd welcome it.  I'm not optimistic.  

Do you like KotOR/Mass Effect?

[Lantyssa]

Why?  In every other recent MMO there's absolutely no reason to do group content prior to max level.  Does TOR give us a viable reason to do group content prior to cap?  I'd love to see that. 

Ask again when the NDA is gone.

[Nebu]

Do you like KotOR/Mass Effect?

Could never bring myself to finish Kotor.  For that reason, I never played Mass Effect.  I'm guessing this is bad.

[Jherad]

Ask again when the NDA is gone.

Seriously.

Also:

have yet to play an MMO with a story compelling enough to make me want to keep reading.

Not so much readiing in this game. 

[Sjofn]

Do you like KotOR/Mass Effect?

Could never bring myself to finish Kotor.  For that reason, I never played Mass Effect.  I'm guessing this is bad.

I didn't finish KotOR. I finished ME 1&2.

[Lakov_Sanite]

I'm still having trouble getting over the fact that every character class is going to have the same exact storyline.  Imagine two smugglers in a raid both bringing the twi'lek girl they are romancing as a companion. Awwwwwkward! It's hard enough in these games when everyone does the same quests.

[Ingmar]

1) You can't bring companions to raids, only the regular 4 person groups.
2) There are appearance packs that change their appearance fairly dramatically. So one player might have a red twi'lek companion dressed in heavy armor, while you have a blue twi'lek companion dressed in fatigues, or whatever.
3) Other people's companions don't have the character name overhead, just a generic description.

[Ragnoros]

We are well on track to discovering the same truth Fry does. Dating robots can only lead to ruin. 

[Ice Cream Emperor]

Sounds like someone needs some remedial KOTOR play assigned for this week's homework.

Oh please do not get me started on the writing in that game. The meagre sliver of humour I managed to inject into my previous snarkiness will be consumed in a giant flaming pyre of contempt.

[Cyrrex]

Why?  In every other recent MMO there's absolutely no reason to do group content prior to max level.  Does TOR give us a viable reason to do group content prior to cap?  I'd love to see that.  

I have yet to play an MMO with a story compelling enough to make me want to keep reading.  Most are so trite that I lose interest immediately and commence the grind to cap so that I can pvp sooner.  

If SWTOR is an exception to this, I'd welcome it.  I'm not optimistic.  

There is reason to be optimistic.  All I think I can get away with saying is that this isn't WoW questing, no siree. Not even a tiny bit.  Bar has been raised, by no small amount.

The content may not be your "thing", if you know what I mean, but that's another matter entirely.

[kildorn]

Knowing myself, I will still next->next->finished my way through the lore, then ask in guild why the hell we're in an instance trying to kill *person who was fully explained by the lore during the entire leveling process*

Really, at this point my brain is wired to skim quest text to find the name and number of whatever fozzle I need to kill. It may be awesome writing, but it's just not how I play games :(

[Fordel]

There's no quest text in this game.

[Shatter]

Knowing myself, I will still next->next->finished my way through the lore, then ask in guild why the hell we're in an instance trying to kill *person who was fully explained by the lore during the entire leveling process*

Really, at this point my brain is wired to skim quest text to find the name and number of whatever fozzle I need to kill. It may be awesome writing, but it's just not how I play games :(

I do the same and being in TOR beta Ive sat through pretty much every quest cutscene to hear the story regardless of how remedial and for the majority Im glad I did.  Definitely brings a new level to questing that I normally cant be bothered with. 

[Dren]

There's no quest text in this game.

I'm playing EQ2 right now and am finding the massive amounts of quest text to be very tedious.  I welcome this "feature" of SWTOR.

[fuser]

I'm playing EQ2 right now and am finding the massive amounts of quest text to be very tedious.  I welcome this "feature" of SWTOR.

So instead you get to watch 60 seconds of a cut scene to get the kill 10 foozles quest.

[kildorn]

There's no quest text in this game.

Then there had better be a tracker after the chatting. ><

I do not want to listen to lady tell me her sob story unless there's an ME2 renegade interrupt that causes me to say "long story short: what gets shot?"

[Sky]

So instead you get to watch 60 seconds of a cut scene to get the kill 10 foozles quest.

The kill x quests are automatically gained when you kill one of x in an area, as a 'bonus quest'.

I do love the percolating dark side in the thread though. Malgus approves.

[fuser]

So instead you get to watch 60 seconds of a cut scene to get the kill 10 foozles quest.

The kill x quests are automatically gained when you kill one of x in an area, as a 'bonus quest'.

Yep that's true, trying not to go