SWTOR

[Paelos]

EA uses some sort of odd fiscal year quartering that is then misreported by gaming journalists who don't understand it.

It's not odd, it's just a March 31st fiscal year. Many companies use June 30th as well.

So yeah, Q2/Q3 for EA means they are targetting July 1 - Dec 31 for the release.

[Amaron]

So yeah, Q2/Q3 for EA means they are targetting July 1 - Dec 31 for the release.

Yea that's what I was saying too.  Obviously they aren't popping it out in July and August sounds damn iffy.   That means right now they hope they can do it in September at least.

[disKret]

And now they are saying that there will be no open-beta for people.
Huge server clusterfuck during opening days incoming...

[01101010]

And now they are saying that there will be no open-beta for people.
Huge server clusterfuck during opening days incoming...

I really think the heyday of open beta testing is well behind us now. Companies see that they can now charge, either pre-orders or the like, for people to beta test. Next step is to do what MMOs have been doing for quite sometime... just open the game, make your money, and fix the holes while it is going into deeper waters and pray you don't sink first.

[Merusk]

Yep. Open betas were also for the days before such mass connections were so widespread.  Everything does it these days so there's no lack of experience and knowledge on problems and how to fix them.  Your preorder beta should give you more than enough players to shake out any hidden oddities in the game code itself.

[luckton]

Something we all agree on then re: Open Betas.  Though I seriously doubt this game will ever go F2P unless it has some kind of epic failure.  Only thing stopping that would be the servers/network not being able to handle it or the devs not putting out content at a decent and/or bug-free pace.

[luckton]

Well at least now we have a reason as to why.

According to the exec, doing so would be irresponsible to the publisher's shareholders as it would give competitors an opportunity to disrupt the launch. He also said it's vitally important to continue fine-tuning the game based on customer feedback from the ongoing beta test.

[disKret]

Only thing stopping that would be the servers/network not being able to handle it

This is something I also had in mind - I agree that open betas are not bug-catching times today only masive capacity tests.
This game will probably have huge (i mean realy huge) spike of people rushing the servers to see if it delivers or not. I dont think Bioware has enough knowledge to judge if they can handle players trying to DDOS login servers, etc.

[luckton]

Only thing stopping that would be the servers/network not being able to handle it

This is something I also had in mind - I agree that open betas are not bug-catching times today only masive capacity tests.
This game will probably have huge (i mean realy huge) spike of people rushing the servers to see if it delivers or not. I dont think Bioware has enough knowledge to judge if they can handle players trying to DDOS login servers, etc.

Bioware had Mythic dumped into their house last year.  Those guys may not know how to make lightning strike twice, but they do have an idea on what to expect when it comes to server traffic.  With EA's limitless funding, I'm sure they'll have some top gear servers at the ready, but it'll come down to the dev code for handling the data correctly that makes or breaks.

[Shatter]

I need to get a beta key to sell on ebay for $200

[disKret]

Bioware had Mythic dumped into their house last year.  Those guys may not know how to make lightning strike twice, but they do have an idea on what to expect when it comes to server traffic.  With EA's limitless funding, I'm sure they'll have some top gear servers at the ready, but it'll come down to the dev code for handling the data correctly that makes or breaks.

For Europe Mythic = GOA service. How GOA can handle servers Warhammer players will tell You realy dark and scary stories.

[Murgos]

One of the things that WoW did very well was having a large, extended, NDA free beta test.  As I recall it went on for months and had a large number of people in it (although they still had massive server queues at launch).

If the game is good then public exposure is a good thing and leads to more customer confidence and hence more sales.  Also, I think that having a large extended, populated and publicly visible beta period will do more to offset the nefarious schemes of your competitors to disrupt your launch than any amount of secrecy could hope to accomplish.

[Merusk]

It sounds like they're worried about moles getting into global channels and calling the game shit, while disrupting play experiences.   Is this truly a concern? Are MMO devs and companies really sinking down to Westboro Baptist levels to try and hurt their competition?

The depressing part is I actually considered it, because they just might be.

[disKret]

It sounds like they're worried about moles getting into global channels and calling the game shit, while disrupting play experiences.   Is this truly a concern? Are MMO devs and companies really sinking down to Westboro Baptist levels to try and hurt their competition?

The depressing part is I actually considered it, because they just might be.

Or just - they want to grab as much money as they can on the starting point cause they are not so sure game will earn in time?

[Surlyboi]

Not moles, fanboys

[Amaron]

It sounds like they're worried about moles getting into global channels and calling the game shit, while disrupting play experiences.   

Bobby Koprick is no man of morals.   They might be worried about worse.  

[Nebu]

Has a beta helped any recent MMO that wasn't WoW?  I can't think of one.  WAR was probably the closest, but the shine wore off pretty fast once people started to realize the shit that was the end game.  

That being the case, a little mystery can't hurt the marketing campaign.  It may be enough to get marginally interested gamers to plop down $50 just to take a look.  That's $50 more than they'd make were that same gamer invited to an open beta.  I know that beta testing has turned me off to more games than it has gotten me excited about them.  

[Numtini]

At this point, I'm not sure you can opt not to have at least a semi-open beta. If you don't have it, it's tantamount to saying "we know our game sucks, so we're not having a beta."

[Chimpy]

With a title that is tied to a strong IP like Star Wars (even if you think Star Wars is total shit, you are familiar with it) there is no real upside for an extended public beta period. And the kind of people who scramble to (and end up actually playing) in MMO betas are usually a bunch of jaded neckbeards who are looking for a form of robot-jesus that takes their previous favorite MMO (usually EQ or one of the games that WoW trounced) and makes it 'better' because "people will gobble a game with "depth" and a "huge world" etc., etc.

You don't get average Joes who played WoW for a few months, liked it, but went on to other things and are interested in playing a Star Wars (or just not Wizards and Dwagons) MMO. You get people who will, by their very nature, be over critical because they go in with huge expectations and when they aren't there feel they need to trumpet to the world the failings of the game (as they see them) to enlighten the less exalted peons who were not allowed into the testing.

[Mrbloodworth]

With a title that is tied to a strong IP like Star Wars (even if you think Star Wars is total shit, you are familiar with it) there is no real upside for an extended public beta period. And the kind of people who scramble to (and end up actually playing) in MMO betas are usually a bunch of jaded neckbeards who are looking for a form of robot-jesus that takes their previous favorite MMO (usually EQ or one of the games that WoW trounced) and makes it 'better' because "people will gobble a game with "depth" and a "huge world" etc., etc.

You don't get average Joes who played WoW for a few months, liked it, but went on to other things and are interested in playing a Star Wars (or just not Wizards and Dwagons) MMO. You get people who will, by their very nature, be over critical because they go in with huge expectations and when they aren't there feel they need to trumpet to the world the failings of the game (as they see them) to enlighten the less exalted peons who were not allowed into the testing.

AKA: US.

[Murgos]

With a title that is tied to a strong IP like Star Wars (even if you think Star Wars is total shit, you are familiar with it) there is no real upside for an extended public beta period. And the kind of people who scramble to (and end up actually playing) in MMO betas are usually a bunch of jaded neckbeards who are looking for a form of robot-jesus that takes their previous favorite MMO (usually EQ or one of the games that WoW trounced) and makes it 'better' because "people will gobble a game with "depth" and a "huge world" etc., etc.

You don't get average Joes who played WoW for a few months, liked it, but went on to other things and are interested in playing a Star Wars (or just not Wizards and Dwagons) MMO. You get people who will, by their very nature, be over critical because they go in with huge expectations and when they aren't there feel they need to trumpet to the world the failings of the game (as they see them) to enlighten the less exalted peons who were not allowed into the testing.

Don't you think that MORE information will influence that problem in a better way than less information?

If you have two sources of information and one is the official, "It's great the water is fine." and the other is a disgruntled neckbeard's, "The water sucks and tastes like wee!" then you are giving a LOT of credence to the disgruntled guy.

If you have 1 million voices and 90% of them say, "Hey, it's not bad.  It's an MMO with star wars." then the 5% at either end can be ignored and most people will get a positive message/impression.  This is assuming the game doesn't suck ass, of course.

[SnakeCharmer]

I need to get a beta key to sell on ebay for $200

You could probably sell it for much, much more.

[Bunk]

Has a beta helped any recent MMO that wasn't WoW?

Thinking about it, the only MMO that I have both Beta'd and purchased was UO. I believe I've Beta'd five or six different ones.

And to be fair, UO only got a pass on it's Beta for being goundbreaking. "I think I'll log in and spend 45 minutes to mine and craft one chain coif!"

[Sky]

If you have 1 million voices and 90% of them say, "Hey, it's not bad.  It's an MMO with star wars." then the 5% at either end can be ignored and most people will get a positive message/impression.  This is assuming the game doesn't suck ass, of course.

But the 900k enjoying the game aren't going to go on for 194 pages about how much fun they're having. The minority with the big fucking yaps who love to jabber on about how shitty a game is ad nauseum will be the ones dominating the signal:noise.

 

[Lantyssa]

I think positive vibes will get out.  Both of us cheered RIFT on, even though we knew we weren't going to buy it at release.

MMO gamers just aren't used to seeing a good product released, so we tend to view every upcoming game with a lot of skepticism.

[Paelos]

I think positive vibes will get out.  Both of us cheered RIFT on, even though we knew we weren't going to buy it at release.

MMO gamers just aren't used to seeing a good product released, so we tend to view every upcoming game with a lot of skepticism.

It's more than just that. It's the amount of blatant lying we've seen in the past before release as well. It's one thing to release something that just isn't that polished or fun. It's quite another to stone-faced lie to your consumers about features.

[Nebu]

MMO gamers just aren't used to seeing a good product released, so we tend to view every upcoming game with a lot of skepticism.

I think that the skepticism is justified.  MMO gamers have been paying subscription fees for beta levels of polish.  Why I continue to do this, baffles my own mind.

[Spiff]

I'd say the extensive beta helped Rift out quite a bit, but they were basically coming out of nowhere (as a company anyway) saying: "come preview our shiny tech and gameplay revolution!"

TOR would be saying: "come preview our fancy story!"
You don't preview a story, you view it and move on.

It might be a good move from a technical PoV (my money's on a launch-day clusterfuck as well and EA spinning it as: "Even we didn't imagine our wee little game would be this popular, ZOMG!!"), but it wouldn't be good marketing.

[Rasix]

MMO gamers just aren't used to seeing a good product released, so we tend to view every upcoming game with a lot of skepticism.

I think that the skepticism is justified.  MMO gamers have been paying subscription fees for beta levels of polish.  Why I continue to do this, baffles my own mind.

Even now with all we've seen, I'll be pretty surprised if SWTOR releases in a state reminiscent of something like AoC.

Rift's release was good right? I'd expect something close to that.

If I had to guess, I'm guessing SWTOR's problems will be related to overcrowding, infrastructure/back-end problems (billing, patching, client downloads, etc), and people finding a way to play the game outside what they intend (people will find a way off the rails).

[Malakili]

MMO gamers just aren't used to seeing a good product released, so we tend to view every upcoming game with a lot of skepticism.

I think that the skepticism is justified.  MMO gamers have been paying subscription fees for beta levels of polish.  Why I continue to do this, baffles my own mind.

We want to recapture that feeling we had playing out first couple MMOs, and we're willing to put up with bugs and incompleteness if we think there is a chance of getting back to that feeling again.   Unfortuantely, I suspect its impossible.

[luckton]

TOR would be saying: "come preview our fancy story!"
You don't preview a story, you view it and move on.

It might be a good move from a technical PoV (my money's on a launch-day clusterfuck as well and EA spinning it as: "Even we didn't imagine our wee little game would be this popular, ZOMG!!"), but it wouldn't be good marketing.

This x1000.  This is why ToR doesn't get an open beta, regardless of how EA wants to protect it's monies for it's investors from ActiBlizz possibly capitalizing on the release.

[Lantyssa]

I think that the skepticism is justified.  MMO gamers have been paying subscription fees for beta levels of polish.  Why I continue to do this, baffles my own mind.

Skepticism is fine.  Healthy even.  But what I mean is that if a game is actually good, that will get out and a couple of unhappy players won't be enough to derail things.

[luckton]

Screenshots from character customization from the E3 floor.

[Malakili]

I can't wait for fat ass Jedi.

[Sky]

Fat agent is AWESOME!

On the front of like/dislike: I don't think it will have so much to do with polish/content/whatever as much as preference. Guys like BW are just burnt on diku, this is not going to change that. Some like Draegan are in it to push to the elder game asap and will be frustrated grouping with someone like me who wants to slowly digest the story. Some people will obsess about animations  

I've said for a while that my only concerns lie in the area of how much content is walled behind group and raid. Hopefully we can keep a nice little core (corps?) of folks to hit the group content and maybe ally with some raiding guilds. But even so, the solo game looks like more than enough to keep me going for quite some time. Almost everything I see scream awesome, so maybe I'm more of a SW fan than I knew? I mean, I did see it several times in a theater when I was 7 yrs old. I have a pic with me (I think wearing a Steelers hat) holding a Vader trading card in the theater lobby, my dad thought I was nuts (it was probably the third time I dragged him there). Sooo...I do acknowledge some bias.