SWTOR

[Morat20]

I think the shitty database software is why they had the ridiculous one character per server rule too.

A lot of hints between the lines said their database design was...suboptimal.

IIRC, I think they mentioned the issues with loading characters due to crafted items.

Problem is, database design is the sort of thing you have to successfully predict and get right at the beginning or else it's just going to dog you and dog you and every fix you make will be suboptimal, piss people off, force gameplay changes, and generally just be a GIANT PITA for ages, even after it's nominally fixed.

And that's if you bring in experts to fix it, although I think the MMORPG industry has at least learned to bring in experts from the get-go.

EVE's a general good example all around in how DB changes drive gameplay and how they can dog development. (EVE at least has the 'single shard' excuse, and I find their general DB philosophy -- throw hardware, throw optimization, and revisit gameplay all at the same time -- as useful. They look to the short, medium, and long term which is probably why their DB hasn't just shot itself in despair by now).

Of course, EVE's generally pretty open about what they're doing, how it broke, and how they plan to fix it compared to most MMORPG companies.

[Ingmar]

Oracle is licensed per processor and number of databases AFAIK, not by size of database. But, I don't deal with Oracle licensing directly.

[Lantyssa]

They said if they were not careful they would have to move up to a bigger database and the cost difference would be substantial.  Maybe that was because it would have meant more servers and processors, but that's all we have to go on.

[eldaec]

They stored a ton of data per toon.

Most of which was completely pointless. 30 different face shape sliders for instance.

The item and crafting systems also created an obscene amount if data because nothing in swg was a commodity.

[Lantyssa]

Items are what took up so much space.  A few facial sliders are insignificant to storage compared to quest completion and object data.  Especially SWG's objects.  Where the sliders mattered was rendering in highly populated areas, since each client needed character details, and objects still probably trumped their impact.

[Merusk]

They said if they were not careful they would have to move up to a bigger database and the cost difference would be substantial.  Maybe that was because it would have meant more servers and processors, but that's all we have to go on.

Thanks, I knew I wasn't crazy.  

[tmp]

If i remember right some of the post-mortem stuff, the real drain was their dynamic spawn system especially since the way it was built would result in tons of NPC being placed right around the cities (as the NPCs would be spawned near the players, and cities were where the players would congregate and spend most of their time)

[Lantyssa]

The spawn system was a problem for the world servers (and players) due to no garbage collection routine.  The could have impacted the databases, too, though it wasn't the issue early in the game's life.

[Venkman]

Oh man, I remember those days. Yea, lots of conversation about Oracle and how their garbage cleanup was scheduled to happen monthly while the number of unique entries created daily was way way beyond what they predicted. I could never understand their surprise though. When the game was effectively about grinding resource gathering and crafting, and every resource and crafted good had its own ID number, and it was called "Star Wars" and was expected to be the first MMO to hit 1mm subs, you'd think they'd have guessed somewhere slightly closer.

I'm guessing you haven't seen the article where EA executives outright said "Yes, we are competing directly with WoW" then?

That article is from oct 24 2008.   In other words they claimed this right after the companies stock took a 50% nose dive over a period of less than 3 months. 

Because they've scaled back their budget, PR and marketing so much since then. 

[Amaron]

I'm guessing you haven't seen the article where EA executives outright said "Yes, we are competing directly with WoW" then?

That article is from oct 24 2008.   In other words they claimed this right after the companies stock took a 50% nose dive over a period of less than 3 months. 

Because they've scaled back their budget, PR and marketing so much since then. 

 

Seriously man get over yourself.   Right after the stock market crash they claim they are going to take down WoW.   If you think such complete PR bullshit (from 4 years ago) is somehow an indication of what they need to accomplish to make a profit now in the present...

Yea.

[Khaldun]

Remember with SWG that because of experimentation, every single act of crafting created a new item record. Then remember how crafting required making metric shittons of objects...and how some of those in turn were put on vendors, just because, you know, it was fun to do it. Then remember the amount of data per character and the dynamic spawns and...well, even with optimal database design, I think you might have been looking at some issues.

[Sky]

It was pretty awesome, though.

[Surlyboi]

I think that's why I'm still playing the damn EMU so much.

[VainEldritch]

It was pretty awesome, though.

That it was.

SWG marched on the MMORPG industry with "failure" etched on its escutcheon and I must say I was proud to stand by that madness. I'll do it again when some crazy foo' developers follow Raph into the abyss.

[Cyrrex]

I think that's why I'm still playing the damn EMU so much.

They did wipe it, right?  What's do they have running now?

[Mrbloodworth]

Most of which was completely pointless. 30 different face shape sliders for instance.

Thats not what I mean.

Items are what took up so much space.  A few facial sliders are insignificant to storage compared to quest completion and object data.  Especially SWG's objects.  Where the sliders mattered was rendering in highly populated areas, since each client needed character details, and objects still probably trumped their impact.

This type of stuff. Keep in mind, due to the nature of materials/ors/mats, they could have had a random ore from day one someone found with like 6 values on it.  Each player had an ass ton of data to track, lest of all was customization. I mean every item in the game had random or unique stats/names etc... Every, what, 12 hours the resources randomized again? And yeah quest stuff, including hidden data like Jedi BS, past skills I think? Contacts, factions.... Its was a lot larger than most. Random DNA on Mobs for example, splicing mobs with the animal breeding.... Tons of crap.

[kaid]

They stored a ton of data per toon.

Most of which was completely pointless. 30 different face shape sliders for instance.

The item and crafting systems also created an obscene amount if data because nothing in swg was a commodity.

SWG had some funny DB issues. Some of the one character per server was understandable with mainly due to the immense amount of storage a character could have. Between the way bags worked and the housing one character could have a SHIT TON of unique items.

Some of the more fun bugs was initially they had some amusing recursive container issues. Where the container negated the weight of anything inside it so you could put bags within bags within bags to get to some truly funny if not quite unlimited amounts of storage space.

Due to the shakyness of their DB scheme duping bugs were a pretty serious issue for a long time.

[Shatter]

I remember the bug in SWG that allowed you to dupe faction points.  My entire guild did it and we all ended up with AT-ST pets, troopers, the strom trooper suit etc etc.  Basically everything you could buy with the points and then some.  We did some major face rolling with that stuff :)  Good times good times...

[Mnemon]

the faction point duping might have been the most abused bug in MMO history lol. damn near everybody I know was farming faction points like crazy while they could. (if i remember correctly you were able to swap any of the tons of experience points the game had directly for faction points).

another great bug was multi-slicing of lightsabers. i forget the specifics but you basically used the inventory in droids to trick the game into letting you slice the saber in the first place (taking the alpha weapon in the game and illegally making it even better), and then slicing it multiple times. Most of the people who did this though were caught and banned.

[Special J]

You mean after I cancelled, all those droids I built finally did something?  Awesome.

[Surlyboi]

I think that's why I'm still playing the damn EMU so much.

They did wipe it, right?  What's do they have running now?

They're running the new OR code on Nova, but Eclipse is running the old code with no signs of wipe in sight.

[Lucas]

Sith Inquisitor presentation video and Q&A (later today, we should get the usual, updated class page on the Bioware site) :

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/news.html?sid=6313544&tag=updates;editor;all;title;1&mode=previews

Ultimate badass evil class! (at least that's how it's presented in the video)

[Cyrrex]

I think that's why I'm still playing the damn EMU so much.

They did wipe it, right?  What's do they have running now?

They're running the new OR code on Nova, but Eclipse is running the old code with no signs of wipe in sight.

I assume my old toon is dead, though, yes?  Or did they transfer stuff over?

[Lantyssa]

Much better video than anything else they've put out.  Whomever directed that one needs to do the rest.

[Paelos]

Much better video than anything else they've put out.  Whomever directed that one needs to do the rest.

Agreed, I can't wait to take her out with my badass Trooper skillz.

[Lucas]

I like those critters at 1:36...wonder what they are!

[voblat]

I like those critters at 1:36...wonder what they are!

They are meant to be Genosians I think.

[Lucas]

I like those critters at 1:36...wonder what they are!

They are meant to be Genosians I think.

Lemme see...

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Geonosian

...Yep, seems about right :)
----------

...And here we go with the updated Class Page (ACs: Sorcerer and Assassin) :

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sith-inquisitor

That feathered helmet surely looks odd.

One of his companions, a Dashade called Khem Val:

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/biographies/khem-val

[Sky]

Much better video than anything else they've put out.  Whomever directed that one needs to do the rest.

While I agree completely, I had to laugh a bit. Imagine Lantyssa liking a trailer featuring a strong-willed redhead!

That feathered helmet surely looks odd.

I liked that one when I saw it on the gamespot article. The second shot in that series, though: Dr friggin Doom! How cool is that?


(or maybe Ultron depending on how geeky you are and if you know a good chrome dipper)

[Surlyboi]

I think that's why I'm still playing the damn EMU so much.

They did wipe it, right?  What's do they have running now?

They're running the new OR code on Nova, but Eclipse is running the old code with no signs of wipe in sight.

I assume my old toon is dead, though, yes?  Or did they transfer stuff over?

Dead dead, as is my jedi. Currently playing a smuggler/BH with absolutely no connection to the force even though I've scored every location badge you can get.

[Malakili]

Nice video, but now were into "lol, non force users would get steam rolled" territory.

[Morat20]

It was pretty awesome, though.

That it was.

SWG marched on the MMORPG industry with "failure" etched on its escutcheon and I must say I was proud to stand by that madness. I'll do it again when some crazy foo' developers follow Raph into the abyss.

I'm right there with you. "Wait, you mean I can just harvest shit and throw it on a vendor? Make people's furniture? Cross-breed Rancors with those bunny guys? FUCK YEAH".

I enjoyed my gimp-assed character and his self-set goals of becoming a first-class junk merchant, and charging my friends 10% to sell their loot and crafting stuff on my vendor because I'd kept the Merchant lines to get it sold...

[Tmon]

Have they narrowed down a release year yet for this yet?  I read a few posts about every 15 or 20 pages so I might have missed it if it someone posted about it.

[Lucas]

Have they narrowed down a release year yet for this yet?  I read a few posts about every 15 or 20 pages so I might have missed it if it someone posted about it.

Here is the latest on the release window (article published on May 5th):

http://www.digitaltrends.com/gaming/games/star-wars-the-old-republic-release-expected-in-2011-not-confirmed/

So, approx. within March 2012.

[Outlawedprod]

Trolls from WoW on the loose with tite lightsabers.